Quote from: JakeJ on July 21, 2016, 01:07:59 PM
Senator Ted Cruz's strategy of Donald Trump losing so that he can run in 2020 is one of the most terrible of consequences. By then, 1, 2  or even 3 Supreme Court Justices will be replaced for decades that can not be undone just to name one of the terrible consequences.

There also is "what goes around comes around." While Reagan did not endorse Ford, Reagan was terribly behind until the Iran hostage crisis went on for over a year. The residual anger of Ford supporters otherwise may have cost Reagan the election. Trump's core supporters are so loyal that if Trump loses they will blame Ted Cruz. His "stand on principle" is also a stand of apathy - at best - to whether Hillary Clinton is the next president.

The soar grapes loser stance of Bush, Kasich and Cruz helps none of them and only Hillary Clinton. If Trump loses but in a very close race, they will be who most helped Clinton stack the Supreme Court with radically liberal activist judges for the next 3 decades. This decision of Ted Cruz likely harms his political future.

Roughly 12 million voted for Trump in the primary, out of that 12 million, only 3 million were Republicans, the rest libs and so caLLED MODERATES....

Quote from: JakeJ on July 21, 2016, 02:36:56 PM
However, I am quite confident that before the election and maybe soon he'll find excuse to say people should vote for Trump without using the word "endorse." If not, I suspect he will never be a national political figure again but rather a Ron Paul style fringe candidate. I wonder if he sees that prospect for the path he - only he - took?

I'll stick my neck out here and make a prediction:

I predict that The Donald will apologize to TrusTed tonight in his acceptance speech.

TrusTed already did find a way to say vote for Trump without using the word "endorse."
He did it in his speech last night.

I'm inclined to think that this whole scenario of
TrusTed's "non-endorsement" and The Donald's coming apology
was agreed to in advance by both sides.
That explains why The Donald agreed to let TrusTed have a prime time slot.

It's a really well designed publicity stunt.
It's a way to get A LOT of attention for the reconciliation of the two factions.

Quote from: je_freedom on July 21, 2016, 04:43:25 PM
I'll stick my neck out here and make a prediction:

I predict that The Donald will apologize to TrusTed tonight in his acceptance speech.

TrusTed already did find a way to say vote for Trump without using the word "endorse."
He did it in his speech last night.

What fuckin speech were you listening too?
Ted actually told the base to write him in, when he clearly stated "Vote Your Conscience" Which was a motto for Never Trumpers.

Senator Cruz is making a common mistake dynamic politicians with high speaking skills makes:
1. Comes to believe his own hype and
2. becoming too big for his own britches.elf

What he did was double down on what is his greatest negative against him - to singularly be for himself and both attacking and trying to upstage everyone else, loyal to no one but himself. That catches up with a person. Here are examples:

Pence endorsed him in Indiana. Last night was supposed to be Pence's night. But Cruz not  only stole Pence's spotlight, but didn't even hint urging anyone to vote for Pence. Many Republican officials and candidates endorsed Cruz - and in return Cruz torpedoed them by not urging people to vote Republican. Cruz is loyal to no one, only takes and never gives, and is a one-man show.

This morning, Cruz attacked the Republican head of the Senate and former Republican head of the House of Representatives. But not Reed and Pelosi. When Cruz goes on the attack, over 90% of the time he is attacking the Republican Party, Republican leadership and Republican officials, not Democrats. Indirectly this is attacking every activist and contributor to those other candidates and officials.

Combined, why should ANY elected Republican in any position, any Republican official at any level or any Republican activist or contributor support Cruz UNLESS they oppose ALL Republicans except Cruz?

This makes Cruz a fringe candidate, an untrustable and intensely disliked one-man-show. To win, he has to defeat virtually everyone including those who otherwise would support him because he has an (R) after his name. Cruz doesn't have an (R) after his name to many people. He has an (I) after his name, more anti-Republican than anti-Democrat.

It is a foolish ego driven course for him to take as a smaller and smaller inner circle of followers essentially cheer him for being on the fringe and being politically anti-social. It also means legislatively he can accomplish nothing - for which then he has to increasingly accuse everyone of being liars, cheats, corrupt etc.

There is a curious thing about power. While a person or politician can accumulate great power, no one in the USA can accumulate total stand-alone power. Not Obama. Not Trump. Not FDR, No president ever. The stance that only he is pure and perfect for which everyone else is evil and corrupt can not succeed.

The other problem is one Solar points put, but claims it a plus. As he noted the majority of those who voted for Trump were not hardcore conservatives but rather middle of the roadish ordinary people. A hardcore conservative who curses and condemns everyone who doesn't agree with every word he says will get obliterated in a general election. Again, Cruz is racing down the path to be the next Ron Paul with a highly devoted but notably a minority of voters. Like Ron Paul, those supporters will furiously defend him and curse anyone who disagrees. But Ron Paul could never escape the limitation he created for himself by doing so.

Taking the path of the Christ complex is always a dead end, to climb up on a cross and declare you are persecuted and being treated unfairly - for which everyone who doesn't worship you is damned.

In shorter terms, Cruz did not expand his base. He reduced it and increased his enemies list - all for just another speech. If he does not change the track he put himself on it will be a known dead-end route.

Quote from: JakeJ on July 21, 2016, 02:36:56 PM
Vote however you want to, that's how it works. If writing in Cruz's name is something you have to do then that's what you got to do.

The core stance of the Supreme Court on abortion will never change regardless, so Ted Cruz is irrelevant in that topic just like every other candidate is. However, most votes on the Supreme Court on left-right decisions are decided by 1 vote, such as Obamacare.

I do not share the view that if everything isn't exactly as I want then I'll cast a malcontent vote only about myself and in doing so erasing my relevancy to reality.

In my opinion, Senator Cruz should either have kept his signed and verbal pledge or stayed away. Instead, he decided to give a campaign speech for himself and to disrupt the convention to the benefit of Hillary Clinton. While the RINO establishment would cheer his doing so, it will not earn him their support as I suspect he hopes. A bad loser is just that regardless of reasons given.

However, I am quite confident that before the election and maybe soon he'll find excuse to say people should vote for Trump without using the word "endorse." If not, I suspect he will never be a national political figure again but rather a Ron Paul style fringe candidate. I wonder if he sees that prospect for the path he - only he - took?

IMO...the veil was ripped off the the GOP in the RNC last night. It was a reviled that there is only a one party system working against our Constitutional values and laws. If you wanna turn this Republic into a democracy with backing the liberal Trump that's your business but I stand with Ted Cruz in fighting for freedoms and the Constitution of the United States of America..

Your choices in this general election are between two liberal democrats in hillary and Trump. I choose none of them. I choose to write in Ted Cruz.

Quote from: Solar on July 21, 2016, 04:49:22 PM

What fuckin speech were you listening too?
Ted actually told the base to write him in, when he clearly stated "Vote Your Conscience" Which was a motto for Never Trumpers.

I was referring to parts near the end, where he said:

WE DESERVE LEADERS WHO STAND FOR PRINCIPLES, THAT UNITE US ALL BEHIND SHARED VALUES, WHO CAST ASIDE ANGER FOR LOVE. THAT IS THE STANDARD WE SHOULD EXPECT FROM EVERYBODY. AND TO THOSE LISTENING, PLEASE, DO NOT STAY HOME IN NOVEMBER. [APPLAUSE]
...

IF YOU LOVE OUR COUNTRY, AND LOVE YOUR CHILDREN AS MUCH AS I KNOW THAT YOU DO, STAND AND SPEAK AND VOTE YOUR CONSCIENCE, VOTE FOR CANDIDATES UP AND DOWN THE TICKET WHO YOU TRUST TO DEFEND OUR FREEDOM AND TO BE FAITHFUL TO THE CONSTITUTION. [CHANTING: WE WANT TRUMP]

I APPRECIATE THE ENTHUSIASM OF THE NEW YORK DELEGATION.
...

WE WILL UNITE THE PARTY, WE WILL UNITE THE COUNTRY, BY STANDING TOGETHER FOR SHARED VALUES BY STANDING FOR LIBERTY. GOD BLESS EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU, AND GOD BLESS THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

Senator Cruz gave up and quit before the primary is over. If a candidate gives up and quits there isn't really a complaint about not somehow then winning. To have a legitimate claim to a floor fight he would have needed to stay into the very last state rounding up every delegate he could as many were not winner take all states.

I don't think anyone, ever, has won an election by giving up and quitting. Can you name anyone who has? In 1976 Reagan never gave up against Ford and fought to the last state. When Senator Cruz quit it was over for him. Everyone understands that is what happens when a candidate drops out.

Quote from: JakeJ on July 21, 2016, 04:56:42 PM
Senator Cruz is making a common mistake dynamic politicians with high speaking skills makes:
1. Comes to believe his own hype and
2. becoming too big for his own britches.elf

What he did was double down on what is his greatest negative against him - to singularly be for himself and both attacking and trying to upstage everyone else, loyal to no one but himself. That catches up with a person. Here are examples:

Pence endorsed him in Indiana. Last night was supposed to be Pence's night. But Cruz not  only stole Pence's spotlight, but didn't even hint urging anyone to vote for Pence. Many Republican officials and candidates endorsed Cruz - and in return Cruz torpedoed them by not urging people to vote Republican. Cruz is loyal to no one, only takes and never gives, and is a one-man show.

This morning, Cruz attacked the Republican head of the Senate and former Republican head of the House of Representatives. But not Reed and Pelosi. When Cruz goes on the attack, over 90% of the time he is attacking the Republican Party, Republican leadership and Republican officials, not Democrats. Indirectly this is attacking every activist and contributor to those other candidates and officials.

Combined, why should ANY elected Republican in any position, any Republican official at any level or any Republican activist or contributor support Cruz UNLESS they oppose ALL Republicans except Cruz?

This makes Cruz a fringe candidate, an untrustable and intensely disliked one-man-show. To win, he has to defeat virtually everyone including those who otherwise would support him because he has an (R) after his name. Cruz doesn't have an (R) after his name to many people. He has an (I) after his name, more anti-Republican than anti-Democrat.

It is a foolish ego driven course for him to take as a smaller and smaller inner circle of followers essentially cheer him for being on the fringe and being politically anti-social. It also means legislatively he can accomplish nothing - for which then he has to increasingly accuse everyone of being liars, cheats, corrupt etc.

There is a curious thing about power. While a person or politician can accumulate great power, no one in the USA can accumulate total stand-alone power. Not Obama. Not Trump. Not FDR, No president ever. The stance that only he is pure and perfect for which everyone else is evil and corrupt can not succeed.

The other problem is one Solar points put, but claims it a plus. As he noted the majority of those who voted for Trump were not hardcore conservatives but rather middle of the roadish ordinary people. A hardcore conservative who curses and condemns everyone who doesn't agree with every word he says will get obliterated in a general election. Again, Cruz is racing down the path to be the next Ron Paul with a highly devoted but notably a minority of voters. Like Ron Paul, those supporters will furiously defend him and curse anyone who disagrees. But Ron Paul could never escape the limitation he created for himself by doing so.

Taking the path of the Christ complex is always a dead end, to climb up on a cross and declare you are persecuted and being treated unfairly - for which everyone who doesn't worship you is damned.

In shorter terms, Cruz did not expand his base. He reduced it and increased his enemies list - all for just another speech. If he does not change the track he put himself on it will be a known dead-end route.

Jake, Jake, Jake.  I read your first two sentences and stopped.  Cruz's hype?  Seriously?  Obviously you don't have a clue about the man.  Please enlighten me as to the 'hype' you a referring to. Secondly, two big for his own britches??  He happened to earn every thread of his 'big' britches .... Next....

Quote from: JakeJ on July 21, 2016, 04:56:42 PM

Taking the path of the Christ complex is always a dead end, to climb up on a cross and declare you are persecuted and being treated unfairly - for which everyone who doesn't worship you is damned.

In shorter terms, Cruz did not expand his base. He reduced it and increased his enemies list - all for just another speech. If he does not change the track he put himself on it will be a known dead-end route.

Jake - You're obviously describing Donald Trump, "The system is rigged against me!  Oh poor me, I can't get a break"  Trump has a twisted messiah complex, "We gonna win so much, you'll get sick of winning."

What polling can you site to support your statement: 'Cruz did not expand his base' - just your 'feelings'?
On the other hand, Donald Trump SHRUNK his conservative base, is still trying to expand his Liberal base by chasing Bernie Sanders supporters.

And, in Texas, they love Ted Cruz.  He doesn't need the New York Liberal vote... but then Trump couldn't win his own home district, was blown out by Hillary and Bernie.


Did all that meaningless drivel actually come out of your head....?  Really - next we'll be treated to, 'Trump is the most conservative candidate' or he's 'just like Ronald Reagan'.

Quote from: je_freedom on July 21, 2016, 05:13:12 PM
I was referring to parts near the end, where he said:

WE DESERVE LEADERS WHO STAND FOR PRINCIPLES, THAT UNITE US ALL BEHIND SHARED VALUES, WHO CAST ASIDE ANGER FOR LOVE. THAT IS THE STANDARD WE SHOULD EXPECT FROM EVERYBODY. AND TO THOSE LISTENING, PLEASE, DO NOT STAY HOME IN NOVEMBER. [APPLAUSE]
...

IF YOU LOVE OUR COUNTRY, AND LOVE YOUR CHILDREN AS MUCH AS I KNOW THAT YOU DO, STAND AND SPEAK AND VOTE YOUR CONSCIENCE, VOTE FOR CANDIDATES UP AND DOWN THE TICKET WHO YOU TRUST TO DEFEND OUR FREEDOM AND TO BE FAITHFUL TO THE CONSTITUTION. [CHANTING: WE WANT TRUMP]

I APPRECIATE THE ENTHUSIASM OF THE NEW YORK DELEGATION.
...

WE WILL UNITE THE PARTY, WE WILL UNITE THE COUNTRY, BY STANDING TOGETHER FOR SHARED VALUES BY STANDING FOR LIBERTY. GOD BLESS EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU, AND GOD BLESS THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

And what pretell gives you the idea he was talking about Trump?
Since when did Trump ever show an interest in the Constitution, or display a set of shared values that we could unite behind?

That last one, ?

""I APPRECIATE THE ENTHUSIASM OF THE NEW YORK DELEGATION."

That was a slam at what we all know to be a bunch of libs.
I see you watched it through the prism of Trump appreciation shades. Believe me, nothing in that speech was meant as praise for the NY Lib.

Some people only listen to themselves.

Quote from: JakeJ on July 21, 2016, 09:10:48 PM
Some people only listen to themselves.

Learn to use the quote function when posting or I will delete your posts.

Quote from: Hoofer on July 21, 2016, 07:11:02 PM
Jake - You're obviously describing Donald Trump, "The system is rigged against me!  Oh poor me, I can't get a break"  Trump has a twisted messiah complex, "We gonna win so much, you'll get sick of winning."

What polling can you site to support your statement: 'Cruz did not expand his base' - just your 'feelings'?
On the other hand, Donald Trump SHRUNK his conservative base, is still trying to expand his Liberal base by chasing Bernie Sanders supporters.

And, in Texas, they love Ted Cruz.  He doesn't need the New York Liberal vote... but then Trump couldn't win his own home district, was blown out by Hillary and Bernie.


Did all that meaningless drivel actually come out of your head....?  Really - next we'll be treated to, 'Trump is the most conservative candidate' or he's 'just like Ronald Reagan'.

In Texas they also loved Ron Paul. Cruz is becoming Ron Paul and will have Ron Paul's future if he continues as he is. He will have a small, angry and militant group of followers as is base and his peak.

Correct, Trump did not carry the Wall Street crowd.

Trump is not a social conservative. Nor was Barry Goldwater. Trump is a pragmatic nationalistic centrist, not a dogmatic religious ideologue on the right. Claiming to be the most fundamentalist Christian candidate who says the words "Bible," "Jesus" and "Judeo-Christian values" as the candidate's foremost selling point can not win a primary, let alone a general election. Militantly being a pro-America nationalist might be able to win in November as it won the primary.

Regardless, that is who Trump-the-candidate is. Your choice whether to believe it or not. In my view, much of it is an act. But in my view Senator Cruz talking like he's a preacher at a tent revival also is mostly just an act. Politicians mostly are actors when given speeches. Cruz is not different. Nor is Trump.

Trump is not like Ronald Reagan nor is Cruz. In my opinion Cruz is painting himself into a political corner.

Quote from: JakeJ on July 21, 2016, 09:28:41 PM
In Texas they also loved Ron Paul. Cruz is becoming Ron Paul and will have Ron Paul's future if he continues as he is. He will have a small, angry and militant group of followers as is base and his peak.

Correct, Trump did not carry the Wall Street crowd.

Trump is not a social conservative. Nor was Barry Goldwater. Trump is a pragmatic nationalistic centrist, not a dogmatic religious ideologue on the right. Claiming to be the most fundamentalist Christian candidate who says the words "Bible," "Jesus" and "Judeo-Christian values" as the candidate's foremost selling point can not win a primary, let alone a general election. Militantly being a pro-America nationalist might be able to win in November as it won the primary.

Regardless, that is who Trump-the-candidate is. Your choice whether to believe it or not. In my view, much of it is an act. But in my view Senator Cruz talking like he's a preacher at a tent revival also is mostly just an act. Politicians mostly are actors when given speeches. Cruz is not different. Nor is Trump.

Trump is not like Ronald Reagan nor is Cruz. In my opinion Cruz is painting himself into a political corner.
[/quote]

Why did Trump get so many Democrat crossover votes?

Quote from: JakeJ on July 21, 2016, 04:56:42 PM
Senator Cruz is making a common mistake dynamic politicians with high speaking skills makes:
1. Comes to believe his own hype and
2. becoming too big for his own britches.elf

What hype is that?