My error. Meant Bima not Bali. Apologies.

Quote from: Walter Josh on December 04, 2015, 05:43:22 PM
My error. Meant Bima not Bali. Apologies.

Where is Bima?

Sumbawa, Province of Tenggara.

My plan is simple. For all intent and purposes, we are at war with the Middle East. When our national security is at risk, real leaders such as President Roosevelt gutted a section of our constitution for a time, placing Americans of Japanese decent in camps where they posed little risk...until the President decided that his people were no longer in jeopardy. That's right...drastic steps and measures because of drastically dangerous times.

So, while we are at war with Islam, I say we send all non-American Middle Easterners back to their country of origin, and allow Americans of Middle-Eastern decent the option of encampment and surveillance until we see no further threat, or they may choose to leave. In addition, No person of Middle-East decent should be allowed to enter our country until further notice, if ever at all. President Obozo is no Roosevelt, and he is seeing the dreams of his father come to fruition at a rapid pace. Can you see that those dreams are coming true? Ask the poor folks in California...they'll explain it all.

Quote from: Walter Josh on November 28, 2015, 10:12:27 AM
The Syrian refugees want to leave their homeland for the same reason the Mexicans do and the East Europeans did decades ago. The root of all immigration is economic as there is no opportunity for them and their children in their country of birth, as their leaders ignore them; happy to see their backsides.
The Syrians are Muslims and in Arabic, the word Islam translates as submission (to the will of Allah). As such, Free Will is not part of their psyche. So they have been abused and ignored for many hundreds of years because they have tolerated/submitted to their conditions in the name of religion. When they find a way to break away from this tyranny of the mind, they will get transformational change. Otherwise nothing will change and the USA attempting to ride to the rescue, is a fool's errand akin to Bush's promise to "bring democracy to the Arabs." Their fate is theirs.

The problem as we gave seen in France, the UK a some of our own cities, I.e. Dearborn Mi and Milwaukee Wi
They do not come here to assimilate and join in our democracy and freedoms, but to keep their seventh century culture and to gradually eliminate our freedoms and culture and use violence to force us to accept theirs.  That is what the Koran commands them to do.  In fact, it comes down to convert us or kill us.Why in the world would we allow these vipers among us.  They are a number of centuries behind us as far as civilization is concerned and absolutely refuse to catch up to modern times. Permitting them entry is suicide.

Is It Time to Expel Turkey from NATO?
http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-skeptics/it-time-expel-turkey-nato-14518
"Turkey's rash action in shooting down a Russian plane that apparently violated Turkish airspace for no more than 17 seconds is only the latest incident that should set off alarm bells in other NATO capitals.  Ankara's reckless belligerence was exceeded only by its hypocrisy.  Turkish planes violated the airspace of Greece more than 2,000 times in 2014 alone, and 2014 was a typical year for such incidents.  Greek officials have long complained that their country must devote a considerable portion of its defense budget to intercept aircraft engaging in such violations.  Fortunately, though, Athens has never emulated Turkey's standard and blasted offending aircraft out of the sky..."
"...The reality is that Turkey is an irresponsible loose cannon.  NATO is supposed to be an alliance of peaceful democracies.  Yet evidence continues to mount that Turkey fails to meet either standard.  At best, the country is now what analyst Fareed Zakaria termed an "illiberal democracy"—a state that has periodic elections but where reliable protections for dissent are lacking and the political process is rigged in favor of the incumbent regime.  That term accurately describes Turkey..."

NORTH ATLANTIC Treaty Organization.

What part of the NORTH ATLANTIC is ISLAMIC Turkey In?

Quote from: Walter Josh on December 04, 2015, 07:53:10 PM
Sumbawa, Province of Tenggara.

Okay, you have mentioned two obscure Indonesian towns to prove your point.  I have traveled very near both Bima and Sarmi where you claim that foreigners flock to.  I lived in Indonesia for twelve years and traveled all over the archipelago and can say with a degree of certainty that foreigners do NOT flock to these obscure locations.  They DO flock to Bali and neighboring Lombok.  Diving is spectacular in the islands and many people do go on diving trips to remote locations but not to frolic on the beaches in bikinis.  That would definitely be frowned upon in most places. 

Indonesians are radicalized enough that they burn churches (sometimes full of people) and bombed a nightclub in Bali.  They threatened to bomb many more locations.  My home was under 24 hour guard the entire 12 years I lived there.   And Billy is right about Mindanao, Philippians.  It is also radicalized and dangerous.

I left Indonesia in the middle of the night on a chartered jet from Singapore because the government had fallen and the city of Jakarta was literally on fire and being luted.  People were being murdered in the street.

Having also lived many years in Saudi I will agree that it is the most severely islamic.  But islam is islam.  I hired them and know their culture well.  True believers tend to be radical.  The "peaceful" muslims tend to be ritual muslims, not faithful adherents to the letter of the  Qu'ran.

** The reason why Bali is such a huge tourist attraction is because it IS hindu and tolerates people that muslims do not.

Quote from: Charliemyboy on December 04, 2015, 08:07:16 PM
The problem as we gave seen in France, the UK a some of our own cities, I.e. Dearborn Mi and Milwaukee Wi
They do not come here to assimilate and join in our democracy and freedoms, but to keep their seventh century culture and to gradually eliminate our freedoms and culture and use violence to force us to accept theirs.  That is what the Koran commands them to do.  In fact, it comes down to convert us or kill us.Why in the world would we allow these vipers among us.  They are a number of centuries behind us as far as civilization is concerned and absolutely refuse to catch up to modern times. Permitting them entry is suicide.

Milwaukee...?  Serious?   I left Milwaukee Metro in 2000 after 18 years, and at least back then, the only reason anyone wore something on their head was WINTER or that WIND from the lake effect downtown.  Is Usingners still on 3rd St?

I have spent extensive time in only two Muslim countries, Turkey and Morocco.  I do not claim to be an expert on their culture, but I am an expert on what I have personally seen and lived.  I was not there to try to convert anyone to any particular religion as I have no interest in that.  I lived among them, in their homes, and I certainly learned enough to know that they are barbarians, inhumane and well, stupid.  This comes from incest over centuries, I believe.  Marrying one's first cousin does not produce brilliant offspring.  I have seen young girls be careful to place Korans above their waist in order to not contaminate them with.....well, bathroom habits.  This in rooms nowhere near a bathroom.  I am still in contact with a couple of them but I know they are not my friends, as the Koran commands them to male no friends of infidels. 

Insofar as their thinking we are dirty infidels, I must say I learned not to stand downwind of one of them--in both countries.  I have known teenage girls who are the equivalent of slaves--held to do domestic work.  They are the equivalent of slaves because their father came each week to collect their wages in order to support his three wives. 

In short, I hate these people.  I consider them somewhat less than civilized beings.

Quote from: Charliemyboy on December 05, 2015, 06:37:32 AM
I have spent extensive time in only two Muslim countries, Turkey and Morocco.  I do not claim to be an expert on their culture, but I am an expert on what I have personally seen and lived.  I was not there to try to convert anyone to any particular religion as I have no interest in that.  I lived among them, in their homes, and I certainly learned enough to know that they are barbarians, inhumane and well, stupid.  This comes from incest over centuries, I believe.  Marrying one's first cousin does not produce brilliant offspring.  I have seen young girls be careful to place Korans above their waist in order to not contaminate them with.....well, bathroom habits.  This in rooms nowhere near a bathroom.  I am still in contact with a couple of them but I know they are not my friends, as the Koran commands them to male no friends of infidels. 

Insofar as their thinking we are dirty infidels, I must say I learned not to stand downwind of one of them--in both countries.  I have known teenage girls who are the equivalent of slaves--held to do domestic work.  They are the equivalent of slaves because their father came each week to collect their wages in order to support his three wives. 

In short, I hate these people.  I consider them somewhat less than civilized beings.

Give it a few years and you may consider them target practice.

Quote from: ZQuickSilverZ on December 05, 2015, 07:51:13 AM
Give it a few years and you may consider them target practice.

Oh, if only the Crusaders had actually completed the job long ago. They were millenniums ahead of us in the "proactive" department.

Kroz, I used cities since my analogy was geographic. Otherwise my core point had nothing to do w/any city, Indonesian or otherwise. Rather it was direct and simple, namely, that Islam is more intolerant and repressive the closer one gets to their holy sites and the reverse, the further away one gets.
This is hardly an original observation from me, being written about by ranking Arabists such as David Pryce-Jones as well as Bernard Lewis.

Quote from: kroz on December 05, 2015, 05:15:05 AM
Okay, you have mentioned two obscure Indonesian towns to prove your point.  I have traveled very near both Bima and Sarmi where you claim that foreigners flock to.  I lived in Indonesia for twelve years and traveled all over the archipelago and can say with a degree of certainty that foreigners do NOT flock to these obscure locations.  They DO flock to Bali and neighboring Lombok.  Diving is spectacular in the islands and many people do go on diving trips to remote locations but not to frolic on the beaches in bikinis.  That would definitely be frowned upon in most places. 

Indonesians are radicalized enough that they burn churches (sometimes full of people) and bombed a nightclub in Bali.  They threatened to bomb many more locations.  My home was under 24 hour guard the entire 12 years I lived there.   And Billy is right about Mindanao, Philippians.  It is also radicalized and dangerous.

I left Indonesia in the middle of the night on a chartered jet from Singapore because the government had fallen and the city of Jakarta was literally on fire and being luted.  People were being murdered in the street.

Having also lived many years in Saudi I will agree that it is the most severely islamic.  But islam is islam.  I hired them and know their culture well.  True believers tend to be radical.  The "peaceful" muslims tend to be ritual muslims, not faithful adherents to the letter of the  Qu'ran.

** The reason why Bali is such a huge tourist attraction is because it IS hindu and tolerates people that muslims do not.

There were about five insurgent groups operating in Indonesia when I arrived in E Timor, among them were the rebels in Aceh who were pretty much shooting up everything that moved, the good point, usually rival clans or groups, so they kept it in house....good.

The worse bunch were headed by Abu Bakar Bashir, of Saudi decent who was the "spiritual" leader (Ie head warlord) of the Indonesian Islamic terrorist group Jamayah Islamiyah. Around the end of 1999 (While I was still in tenure) there were a series of attacks in both Jakarta and Yogyakarta, targeting the places that foreigners frequent from bars to disco' etc. Then some idiot set off a Bomb in the Marriot in Jakarta which house an extension office of the US Embassy.

We had to deal with these scumbags infiltrating the Island and messing with the vote and attacking Christian businesses, several full scale riots, burnings, beatings, murders and the usual Muslim mayhem. Almost as bad as a payday night in Southeast DC. This os the infiltration and attrition strategy at work I talked about earlier in this thread.

P.O'd he lost in E, Timor,Bashir stated that he wanted to institute Sharia law, outlaw, liquor, go go bars, bikini's on the beach and in general, fun. To prove his point he Blew up Bali. Which he called an Island of Whores. Since most of his lackeys aren't very smart to begin with he got connected to the one who set off the car bomb and got his ass jailed.

The Saudi's export their own brand of Muslim Terrorism and control to these Islands, especially the Philippines and Southern Thailand called Wahabi or Wahabbism. They recruit these back water types, send them to Muslim countries such a Egypt and Pakistan to the most extreme Madrassas and teach them Arabic and graduate them as Q'uanic scholars
Then they send them back into their native countries to unleash hell. Most of the financing that the Islamic movements(MILF) and Autonomous regions (See ARMM, Muslim Mindanao) are thru these now trusted Clerics....he who controls the money controls everything.

That is how Saudi extends it's tentacles of Radical Islam to the far flung regions of the world Working almost EXCLUSIVELY thru various clerics

Next, those fun Fellows of the Southern Philippines, Atonymous Region of Muslim Mindanao, Eid Kabalau and Nour Misuari and their deadly organizations and terrorist cells Or Piracy,  Kidnapping, Murder & rape for fun and profit.

Quote from: Walter Josh on December 03, 2015, 08:05:30 PM
BB, you obviously couldn't resist, so it's another round I suppose. Lord have mercy!
For starters, this is a discussion forum where opinions are encouraged be they mis-guided, accepted or rejected; they are NOT wrong, despite your opening assertion; they are opinions!!!
Earlier I tried English but that failed, so let me attempt Geography this time.
The western arc of the Muslim world extends from Marrakesh in Spanish Morocco through Casablanca to Tangier across to Oran to Algiers to Tunis to Tripoli to Benghazi to Cairo to Jeddah reaching Mecca, a distance of some 3000 miles. In Marrakesh, European and Arab females frolic in bikinis in the numerous resorts, gambling is available round the clock in the casinos, alcohol flows freely; AND THIS IS A MUSLIM COUNTRY!!!! As one moves further east these activities become more and more restricted, finally being forbidden.
A reverse scenario exists from Mecca to Riyadh to Baghdad to Tehran to Kabul to Karachi to Jakarta ending in Sarmi/New Guinea at the terminus of the Indonesian Archipelago, some 6000miles away. Bali and Sarmi are clones of Marrakesh which is why westerners flock there.
Are there exceptions to the notion of a relaxed Islam at its extremities. Sure. Bahrain, ruled by the Al-Khalifahs,
is a liberal bastion in the northern Persian Gulf where females work, wear western dress, drive and divorce their husbands if they choose. A FACT! Also Dubai is a western enclave in the UAE. But my core point remains. Islam is most repressive at its core in Saudi.
While your East Timorese anecdotes are likely factual, they are irrelevant gossip and hearsay from an audience of one w/an ax to grind.

The Axe I have to grind is with those who try to downplay Radical Islam, especially the Wahabbism that Saudi exports to far flung regions of the world.

Clarity Josh, Always Clarity. If your point is that Saudi is the most resptrictive of the Muslim countries then yes, I would agree, JUST SAY SO instead of wrapping it around in all that extraneous BS.

However, with the rise of the Islamic State and the Caliphate in SYria/Iraq, I think they have far surpassed the repressive Saudi's.