Quote from: republicans2 on February 24, 2011, 08:50:01 PM
I know people in the private sector that make at least that much.  Proves nothing.  I thought you had something specific to show.  It's interesting to me.  I'm torn due to my status.  I think I'm fair in my assessments but it's difficult to actually get a handle on it.  I'm sure some public workers make too much but some don't make enough.  I think it's all in how you see things.  I know many people where I work drive up in some pretty nice cars.  I also think we've been pitted against one another in many ways.  Our society gets caught up in materialistic things while ignoring the important things in life that should be valued the most. 

    There are public workers that make PEANUTS....but of course they are never discussed...and when you read about public workers making horrific salaries they are not the union public workers they are the politica appointees the managers and Governors Confidential Agents. In jersey the governor and each Dept head have X amount of confidential agent slots in thier depts where they PICK THE SALARY and stick their buddies an relatives in...I have been waiting patiently along with my son in laws for Christie to ATTACK THAT...no mention from him yet...and were talking in the millions of GIMMES to non union BUDDIES...That doenst seem to bother the union worker haters though.
   There are some public workers that need to "GIVE" in this climate...theres no doubt about that...and I also agree pensions cant keep skyrocketing...I dont disagree with you all about that....what I totally disagree with is the constant bashing of the workers by wankers like arpad that blame them for everything and anything and claim they have caused all the debt...that is just a BIG PILE OF DUNG...
   

Apparently this item bears repeating since it presents some facts.

Quote from: arpad on February 23, 2011, 11:28:04 AM

Just to stay on topic, and before Zip comes back with one of his "off the cuff sarcastic comment(s)", here's a little item from the Bureau of Labor Statistics - link

If you don't want to bother with the paper, state and local government employees make 44% more then private sector employees doing similar jobs. Similar jobs.

A couple of graphs from the linked pdf:




So yeah, overpaid. And until recently not nearly concerned enough with keeping their well-paid jobs.

Arp, state and local workers do not make nearly as much as Fed employees. The Fed pays quite a bit more than state and local governments... quite a bit more!

Quote from: U_Kay on February 25, 2011, 05:22:14 PM
Arp, state and local workers do not make nearly as much as Fed employees. The Fed pays quite a bit more than state and local governments... quite a bit more!

Could be but my concern is the state and municipal employees. They're the ones with the bennies that'll sink the states.

Quote from: arpad on February 25, 2011, 06:21:43 PM
Could be but my concern is the state and municipal employees. They're the ones with the bennies that'll sink the states.

I understand your point.

Quote from: U_Kay on February 25, 2011, 05:22:14 PM
Arp, state and local workers do not make nearly as much as Fed employees. The Fed pays quite a bit more than state and local governments... quite a bit more!

I'd like to see that.  Not saying it's not true but you have hundreds of municipalities across the US and 50 different states.  My wife works for the state, I work for the feds.  Her pension AND benefits are better then mine.  Most federal employees get 1% for each year.  I get 1.7% for the first 20 then 1% for each year after.  New York State gives 2% per year up until 30 years then 1.5% for each year after with a cap of 80% of their salary.  Plus the federal retirement uses the salary (no overtime).  So if you make $60,000 that's it.  The state uses overtime so a $60,000 salary could bring a pension much higher. 

Out of curiosity, pub, does your wife pay into Social Security? I know you do, and I think most state and local workers do, but not all. It's a question I've seen popping up a lot in recent days.

Quote from: republicans2 on February 25, 2011, 08:30:51 PM
I'd like to see that.  Not saying it's not true but you have hundreds of municipalities across the US and 50 different states.  My wife works for the state, I work for the feds.  Her pension AND benefits are better then mine.  Most federal employees get 1% for each year.  I get 1.7% for the first 20 then 1% for each year after.  New York State gives 2% per year up until 30 years then 1.5% for each year after with a cap of 80% of their salary.  Plus the federal retirement uses the salary (no overtime).  So if you make $60,000 that's it.  The state uses overtime so a $60,000 salary could bring a pension much higher.

I only saw proof of 1 federal worker who earned a little less than $60,000.00 when she bought a home. (She worked in the Social Security Department and had been there 3 years. She was 25 years old and making $56,000.) All of the other federal employees made above $60,000.00 when they came to get a mortgage. 

As for the state workers, I saw only a few who made over $60,000.00 ~ gather I am in Mississippi. The other state workers made under $60,000. and have been with the state for quite a while too!

Of course this is not proof for you. However, it is plenty enough proof for me. What I witnessed as a mortgage loan officer was priceless! I have been out of the business since 2006, but I do remember it well enough. Kurt (Cowdude) was or is in the same line of work (mortgage industry) in some form or fashion.

Quote from: tbone0106 on February 25, 2011, 09:12:30 PM
Out of curiosity, pub, does your wife pay into Social Security? I know you do, and I think most state and local workers do, but not all. It's a question I've seen popping up a lot in recent days.

Yes she does.  I'm quite sure all state and local employees do.  They'd have to get an exemption.  How'd they do that?

Quote from: U_Kay on February 25, 2011, 09:37:16 PM
I only saw proof of 1 federal worker who earned a little less than $60,000.00 when she bought a home. (She worked in the Social Security Department and had been there 3 years. She was 25 years old and making $56,000.) All of the other federal employees made above $60,000.00 when they came to get a mortgage. 

As for the state workers, I saw only a few who made over $60,000.00 ~ gather I am in Mississippi. The other state workers made under $60,000. and have been with the state for quite a while too!

Of course this is not proof for you. However, it is plenty enough proof for me. What I witnessed as a mortgage loan officer was priceless! I have been out of the business since 2006, but I do remember it well enough. Kurt (Cowdude) was or is in the same line of work (mortgage industry) in some form or fashion.

You are right, not enough evidence for me but again, not saying you're not right though, you may be.  If you are in Miss. then I'm quite sure that yes, federal employees do make more then the state or local government workers.  One thing about federal employees.  If you live in what they consider a high cost of living area they give you more.  Here are the salary tables for some, if not most, federal employees:

http://www.opm.gov/oca/11tables/index.asp

Law enforcement is on a different pay scale.  There are 10 steps in pay.  #'s 1-4 are given yearly with a satisfactory rating.  #'s 5-7 come every two years while #'s 8-10 come every three years.  Someone in Mississippi doing the exact same work would make much less then a person living in Houston or San Francisco.  Hope this helps from my perspective.

I view cops and firemen/women the same way I do the military....they are necessary and they should be paid well and recieve benefits....they keep America safe.... what better cause is there?
I just don't think it's right for Unions to make it impossible to fire shitty workers....there is no real motivation for them to do a "good" job, so they don't work as hard at people in the private sector who have to do a good job to keep their job...
I'm also sick to death of the unions putting these freakin dems in office.

Quote from: Josie on February 26, 2011, 08:47:51 PM
I view cops and firemen/women the same way I do the military....they are necessary and they should be paid well and recieve benefits....they keep America safe.... what better cause is there?
I just don't think it's right for Unions to make it impossible to fire shitty workers....there is no real motivation for them to do a "good" job, so they don't work as hard at people in the private sector who have to do a good job to keep their job...
I'm also sick to death of the unions putting these freakin dems in office.

Who do you think makes sure the unions get what they want?  ;)

Repub, I suppose to some degree, yes, I understand your point of view. However, it doesnt change my perspective on this matter. The fed employee makes a handsome salary in comparison to most state and local public empoyees. I wont even discuss how well off the fed employee has it in comparison to many private workers.

Mortgage Lending was where I learned plenty enough about people's pay. I saw the proof of their pay in different fields daily. You can speak for yourself and your wife. That is another point I understand.

@ Josie, it would be very difficult for anyone to disagree with you and win. It appears the unions have become greedy and very demanding!

Quote from: U_Kay on February 26, 2011, 09:24:10 PM
Repub, I suppose to some degree, yes, I understand your point of view. However, it doesnt change my perspective on this matter. The fed employee makes a handsome salary in comparison to most state and local public empoyees. I wont even discuss how well off the fed employee has it in comparison to many private workers.

Mortgage Lending was where I learned plenty enough about people's pay. I saw the proof of their pay in different fields daily. You can speak for yourself and your wife. That is another point I understand.

@ Josie, it would be very difficult for anyone to disagree with you and win. It appears the unions have become greedy and very demanding!

I don't want to come across as argumentative but I think it's important to understand that the government unions aren't doing anything most any person, or group of people, wouldn't do in their position.

People are greedy. There's no getting around that but when your greed is satisfied that just makes many people greedier.

So the government unions, having gotten years of unearned raises and benefit increases now see it as right and proper that the situation go on forever. And even if the raises and benefit bumps aren't going to keep going on certainly what they got in the past is sacrosanct. There's nothing especially evil in that; it's what most people would do given the same situation.

What we've lost sight of is that a job does have a certain value and getting paid more then that value doesn't increase the value of the job.

If the kid down the block gets $10 for raking leaves but can sweet-talk someone into giving him $100 for the job does that make it a $100 job? No. The job's still worth $10. The kid's just lucked into some special circumstances. Same thing with the unions. All those pay increases didn't come about because the jobs became more valuable but because the unions were in a position to get more money.

Quote from: U_Kay on February 26, 2011, 09:24:10 PM
Repub, I suppose to some degree, yes, I understand your point of view. However, it doesnt change my perspective on this matter. The fed employee makes a handsome salary in comparison to most state and local public empoyees. I wont even discuss how well off the fed employee has it in comparison to many private workers.

Mortgage Lending was where I learned plenty enough about people's pay. I saw the proof of their pay in different fields daily. You can speak for yourself and your wife. That is another point I understand.

@ Josie, it would be very difficult for anyone to disagree with you and win. It appears the unions have become greedy and very demanding!

My perspective seems to be unique as I am a public employee who is AGAINST collective bargaining rights.  DEAD against.  Unions dues being channeled to politicians for their votes on benefits and salary is wrong.  I'll be damned if I'm paying dues to fund the Democratic Party.