Govt workers pay and benefits keep being compared to the private sectors pay.
I want to ask a question to anyone on this board, aside from arpad which I will not read...I will just make an off the cuff sarcastic comment.
How can it be that the private sector employees have stagnated while the CEO and big boss pays and bonuss' have skyrocketed even in these bad times...even with companies that have had FAILED leadership and took taxpayer bailiouts.
How can that be ? if the corporations are hurting so bad.
Some people believe private sector employees have been screwed by the Big shots and its not that govt workers make more...its private sector isnt making what they should.....
Hmmmm..... Your question...... Do Govt workers make to much.....YES!! ;D
Quote from: walkstall on February 23, 2011, 09:25:28 AM
Hmmmm..... Your question...... Do Govt workers make to much.....YES!! ;D
You base that on what....
Quote from: zip on February 23, 2011, 09:38:53 AM
You base that on what....
Re:
Do Govt workers make to much ;D
Zip, it isn't even close... Plus benefits, pensions, and job security. They shouldn't be in the same conversation.
Quote from: taxed on February 23, 2011, 10:10:49 AM
Zip, it isn't even close... Plus benefits, pensions, and job security. They shouldn't be in the same conversation.
Ok buddy...but what do you BASE that on...I hear people saying it...but is there a real basis or is it jealousy greed or a plan to keep pays down so the private sector doesnt bitch....What im asking is how do you determine who is making to much when you dont even know what they do...
BTW just to make one thing clear...I am not for the unions nor am i defending them...Im for the workers the ones that get up everyday and go to work. Who are being attacked by the fat cats for personal gain as I see it.
Quote from: zip on February 23, 2011, 10:14:25 AM
Ok buddy...but what do you BASE that on...I hear people saying it...but is there a real basis or is it jealousy greed or a plan to keep pays down so the private sector doesnt bitch....What im asking is how do you determine who is making to much when you dont even know what they do...
I can tell you what a public sector employee does: nothing!
Quote from: taxed on February 23, 2011, 10:16:48 AM
I can tell you what a public sector employee does: nothing!
Ok taxed..I guess that ends the conversation...You know all :) I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for my pension and benefits that I did absolutlely nothing for...lucky me..
Quote from: zip on February 23, 2011, 10:19:33 AM
Ok taxed..I guess that ends the conversation...You know all :) I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for my pension and benefits that I did absolutlely nothing for...lucky me..
You are very welcome. I don't have as much of a problem having my money stolen from me to subsidize your pension, since you were protecting society. I do have a problem with everyone else who does not stand in front of bullets and fires. Remove police and firefighters from the conversation, then pick back up the discussion.
Quote from: taxed on February 23, 2011, 10:21:39 AM
You are very welcome. I don't have as much of a problem having my money stolen from me to subsidize your pension, since you were protecting society. I do have a problem with everyone else who does not stand in front of bullets and fires. Remove police and firefighters from the conversation, then pick back up the discussion.
Lets remove all govt workers...ABOLISH all thier jobs...every single one...they dont do anything anyway right ?
Quote from: zip on February 23, 2011, 10:27:34 AM
Lets remove all govt workers...ABOLISH all thier jobs...every single one...they dont do anything anyway right ?
Except for police, firefighters, those that maintain prisons.... yes. We can eliminate 90% of government and it would run much better.
Quote from: taxed on February 23, 2011, 10:29:00 AM
Except for police, firefighters, those that maintain prisons.... yes. We can eliminate 90% of government and it would run much better.
How would you renew your license so I dont have to give you 4 citations and impound your vehicle
Quote from: zip on February 23, 2011, 10:34:26 AM
How would you renew your license so I dont have to give you 4 citations and impound your vehicle
Gosh, aside from standing in line for 3 hours to pay $15 and dealing with overpaid service reps who act like I just had their great grandparents enslaved last week, I don't know.
Oh, wait, just get it done at the grocery store, or any authorized agency, and eliminate 99% of employees dedicated to renewing licenses!
You have a lot of good ideas... keep them coming!!!
Zip, I recently posted about a county worker (occupation unknown, but a career county worker) in California who retired on a $178,000/year pension. The article didn't mention the worker's age, and it didn't mention health care benefits, though they were probably thrown in for free -- that is common. Does this sound reasonable to you?
In New York City, one in three city cops who retire (after as little as 20 years working, some barely 40 years old) do so on a claim of disability. Almost ALL city firemen retire on disability. Is working as a cop or a fireman in NYC so horribly dangerous or debilitating that physical disability is practically inevitable? Or could those workers perhaps be gaming a system that is VERY easy to game?
Going back to NYC, until recently the city had a number of what were derisively called "rubber rooms" for teachers. These were essentially holding pens for city-employed teachers who had screwed up so badly (some were sex offenders) that the city wouldn't permit them inside a classroom -- EVER again -- but because of union agreements and political pressure, these teachers couldn't be fired by the city. Year after year, New York taxpayers were ponying up $70 million to pay these useless parasites to sit in a room and watch Oprah. Does this make sense to you?
Since 1979, education spending (taxpayer dollars) has nearly tripled. One would think that the quality of our public education system would have increased markedly over that time. Do you think that has happened, Zip?
Public sector unions were granted their collective bargaining rights in 1962, by executive order of John F. Kennedy. This act was not a response to any particular problem; Civil Service workers were already quite nicely compensated. Instead, it was a blatant political ploy on Kennedy's part to help members of his party get elected. By 1975, Victor Gotbaum, a leader in the American Federation of State and County Municipal Employees (AFSCME), was able to boast, "We have the ability, in a sense, to elect our own boss." Between 1989 and 2004, the AFSCME spent over $40 million of its members' dues to help its favored politicians get elected. 98.5% of that money went to Democrats. Do you think maybe there's a political tilt to public employee unions? Perhaps they favor the "party of government?"
Pop quiz, Zip. In the 2010 election cycle, who was the largest single outside donor to political candidates? If you guessed Archer Daniels Midland or Exxon/Mobil or Boeing, sorry. If you guessed that it was AFSCME, you get to move to the front! Oh yeah, and 98% of the money went to Democrats. Hmmm.... Is there a pattern here, Zip?
Let's look at the top political contributors, the real "heavy hitters," for the period 1989-2010. ("Follow the money!") The top 14 on the list donated nearly half a billion dollars over that time, most of it to Democrats. (Of the top 14, only AT&T favored Republicans, 55% to 44% of donations.) Nine of the top 14 were unions, and 95% of their donations went to Democrats. Four of the top 14 were public-employee unions: AFSCME ($43.5 million, 98% to Dems), National Education Association ($32 million, 93% to Dems), Service Employees International Union -- the now-infamous purple-shirted SEIU ($29.1 million, 95% to Dems), and the American Federation of Teachers ($28.4 million, 98% to Dems). Zip, can you see a pattern?
Government workers DO make too much, on average FAR more than their counterparts in private industry. And I get to say that, Zip, because I'm a TAXPAYER and therefore a DIRECT employer of those government workers. I see a system where "unions" of political origin and political purpose use the political system for political gain, and use their members as cash cows. Zip, can you name the very best city in the US for finding a job right now, the ONLY major city in the entire NATION where total employment has INCREASED since the Great Recession took hold three years ago? I'll give you three guesses. (HINT: It's Washington, DC.)
Should private corporations be rewarding their executives with huge bonuses for mediocre performance? No, of course not. That is a stupid thing to do, and I'm seldom in favor of doing stupid things. But in the private-sector marketplace, such things have a way of stopping after a while. Sooner or later, somebody says, "Hey, what are we paying that asshole for?" And the asshole is out the door.
But that ain't the way it works with government unions, is it, Zip?
Government workers' pay and benefits are compared to those in the private sector because that's what there is to compare them to, Zip.
You say that "some people believe private sector employees have been screwed... [and aren't] making what they should...." What they "should?" What they "should" according to whom, Zip? You? From a compensation standpoint, the primary difference between government unions and those in the private sector is the fact that private sector employees are subject to market forces, and government union members are not. Government employment is in no way connected to any market, which is EXACTLY why the phrase "public employee union" should not exist in the English language.
OK, arp. Your turn. :P :P :P
Quote from: zip on February 23, 2011, 09:21:03 AM
I want to ask a question to anyone on this board, aside from arpad which I will not read...I will just make an off the cuff sarcastic comment.
Oh, of course you'll read what I write. We've been through this before.
Just to stay on topic, and before Zip comes back with one of his "off the cuff sarcastic comment(s)", here's a little item from the Bureau of Labor Statistics - link (http://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/ecec.pdf)
If you don't want to bother with the paper, state and local government employees make 44% more then private sector employees doing similar jobs.
Similar jobs.
So yeah, overpaid.
Uh oh... zip is going to blow a gasket!
Quote from: arpad on February 23, 2011, 11:28:04 AM
Oh, of course you'll read what I write. We've been through this before.
Just to stay on topic, and before Zip comes back with one of his "off the cuff sarcastic comment(s)", here's a little item from the Bureau of Labor Statistics - link (http://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/ecec.pdf)
If you don't want to bother with the paper, state and local government employees make 44% more then private sector employees doing similar jobs. Similar jobs.
So yeah, overpaid.
shhh jerkoff go away...I dont read your posts..>I see your name and Im compelled to tell you what a soft defenseless douchebag you would be in person
Quote from: tbone0106 on February 23, 2011, 11:26:14 AM
Zip, I recently posted about a county worker (occupation unknown, but a career county worker) in California who retired on a $178,000/year pension. The article didn't mention the worker's age, and it didn't mention health care benefits, though they were probably thrown in for free -- that is common. Does this sound reasonable to you?
In New York City, one in three city cops who retire (after as little as 20 years working, some barely 40 years old) do so on a claim of disability. Almost ALL city firemen retire on disability. Is working as a cop or a fireman in NYC so horribly dangerous or debilitating that physical disability is practically inevitable? Or could those workers perhaps be gaming a system that is VERY easy to game?
Going back to NYC, until recently the city had a number of what were derisively called "rubber rooms" for teachers. These were essentially holding pens for city-employed teachers who had screwed up so badly (some were sex offenders) that the city wouldn't permit them inside a classroom -- EVER again -- but because of union agreements and political pressure, these teachers couldn't be fired by the city. Year after year, New York taxpayers were ponying up $70 million to pay these useless parasites to sit in a room and watch Oprah. Does this make sense to you?
Since 1979, education spending (taxpayer dollars) has nearly tripled. One would think that the quality of our public education system would have increased markedly over that time. Do you think that has happened, Zip?
Public sector unions were granted their collective bargaining rights in 1962, by executive order of John F. Kennedy. This act was not a response to any particular problem; Civil Service workers were already quite nicely compensated. Instead, it was a blatant political ploy on Kennedy's part to help members of his party get elected. By 1975, Victor Gotbaum, a leader in the American Federation of State and County Municipal Employees (AFSCME), was able to boast, "We have the ability, in a sense, to elect our own boss." Between 1989 and 2004, the AFSCME spent over $40 million of its members' dues to help its favored politicians get elected. 98.5% of that money went to Democrats. Do you think maybe there's a political tilt to public employee unions? Perhaps they favor the "party of government?"
Pop quiz, Zip. In the 2010 election cycle, who was the largest single outside donor to political candidates? If you guessed Archer Daniels Midland or Exxon/Mobil or Boeing, sorry. If you guessed that it was AFSCME, you get to move to the front! Oh yeah, and 98% of the money went to Democrats. Hmmm.... Is there a pattern here, Zip?
Let's look at the top political contributors, the real "heavy hitters," for the period 1989-2010. ("Follow the money!") The top 14 on the list donated nearly half a billion dollars over that time, most of it to Democrats. (Of the top 14, only AT&T favored Republicans, 55% to 44% of donations.) Nine of the top 14 were unions, and 95% of their donations went to Democrats. Four of the top 14 were public-employee unions: AFSCME ($43.5 million, 98% to Dems), National Education Association ($32 million, 93% to Dems), Service Employees International Union -- the now-infamous purple-shirted SEIU ($29.1 million, 95% to Dems), and the American Federation of Teachers ($28.4 million, 98% to Dems). Zip, can you see a pattern?
Government workers DO make too much, on average FAR more than their counterparts in private industry. And I get to say that, Zip, because I'm a TAXPAYER and therefore a DIRECT employer of those government workers. I see a system where "unions" of political origin and political purpose use the political system for political gain, and use their members as cash cows. Zip, can you name the very best city in the US for finding a job right now, the ONLY major city in the entire NATION where total employment has INCREASED since the Great Recession took hold three years ago? I'll give you three guesses. (HINT: It's Washington, DC.)
Should private corporations be rewarding their executives with huge bonuses for mediocre performance? No, of course not. That is a stupid thing to do, and I'm seldom in favor of doing stupid things. But in the private-sector marketplace, such things have a way of stopping after a while. Sooner or later, somebody says, "Hey, what are we paying that asshole for?" And the asshole is out the door.
But that ain't the way it works with government unions, is it, Zip?
Government workers' pay and benefits are compared to those in the private sector because that's what there is to compare them to, Zip.
You say that "some people believe private sector employees have been screwed... [and aren't] making what they should...." What they "should?" What they "should" according to whom, Zip? You? From a compensation standpoint, the primary difference between government unions and those in the private sector is the fact that private sector employees are subject to market forces, and government union members are not. Government employment is in no way connected to any market, which is EXACTLY why the phrase "public employee union" should not exist in the English language.
OK, arp. Your turn. :P :P :P
Its never arps turn I dont read his posts....
Tbone I dont deny there are abuses...but theres a flaw in your post...Union workers all make the same pay, based on their contract
When you get people making excessive pay they are not union id bet they are managers...blame the politicians for that.
I am not a union supporter. Im not a fan of unions and im certainly not a fan of union heads living the high life on their members dues.
I am howerver very much a supporter of the working class of which I consider myself one of...no matter how wealthy I became through hard work...I am from working class roots. Im certain I pay as much tax as most of you.
I fully realize that there is a big debt problem..and something has to be done. I dont disagree govt workers need to take a hit. Give backs are not unreasonable and pay freezes for a certain amount of time isnt unreasonable either.
I utterly disagree with why we are in debt...it is not because of the working class pay and benefits of course it adds to it.
I am more than willing to agree the unions have gone to far and they were emboldened by a house, senate and WH full of libs.
To listen to some of you tell it...the workers have murdered the country. lol please....lets get into all the failed pos corporations, lets talk about their IRRESPONSIBILITY in giving away their money to bums that could never repay...lets talk about fannie and freddie failing...lets talk about bush's 700 billion bailout to big corporations and big financial institutions like Goldman Sachs...lets talk about Obama and his trillion dollar give away...THATS WHY WERE BROKE and dont try and bullshit me its all the govt workers fault ..
Its a two way street...but some of you guys just want it one way and you refuse to acknowledge any wrongdoing or fault by the real culprits....
Private sector employees are UNDERPAID. They are more UNDERPAID than Govt workers are OVERPAID.
Goldman Sachs Group tripled Chief Executive Lloyd Blankfein's base salary and awarded him $12.6 million of stock, even after the bank's net income plunged last year.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/01/29/us-goldmansachs-pay-idUSTRE70R8FP20110129?feedType=RSS&feedName=businessNews&rpc=23&sp=true
The gov of wisconsin caused the unrest and I agree with the protesters TOTALLY and I will tell you why...the gov of wisconsin is not god...wisconsin isnt libya and Saudi Arabia where hes the ruler...he said this is what is going to happen all of you STFU you have nothing to say...and you all thought what? everyone that disagreed with him was going to whimper bow down and say YES MY LORD,
He could have handled it much differently and still got his way. He may get his way...but its not going to be the end...
Zip, what is "working class"?
Funny you should mention Goldman Sachs. They were #5 on that list of top political donors. From 1989-2010, they gave over $33 million to political candidates; 61% of the money went to Democrats. Hmmm...
Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae should be abolished today. Dismantled, defunded, rendered non-existent. And for the history books, they should be renamed Barney Chris and Frankie Dodd. In the same way that unions have no place in government, so the interference in the home mortgage market has no place.
Right now, Wisconsin faces a $77 billion unfunded obligation toward retirement fund of the state's unionized workers. Let's get some perspective here... The Wisconsin Retirement System is the 28th largest pension fund of any kind -- public or private -- in the world. If I'm the governor and I see that my state is teetering on the edge of insolvency, I'm going to tackle the big items first. The Wisconsin Retirement System, and the way it's funded, would seem to qualify as a "big item."
Why are we in debt? That's kind of a general question, and a general answer will suffice: we spend (through our governments) a LOT more than we can afford. To fix the problem, we either have to spend a LOT less (cut gov't programs, such as ridiculously-generous public employee pensions), collect a LOT more money (increase taxes -- now THERE's a popular idea!), or some combination of the two. The time is long past when we can afford "sacred cows."
Now, as for the governor (what was his name, God?), what exactly is he proposing with this new law? He's going to get rid of the unions, right? Well, no, he's not; nothing in the new law affects union membership. He's going to eliminate collective bargaining for government workers, right? Um, no, he's not; collective bargaining would be unaffected for public safety workers, and capped as to wage increases by the CPI for others, but not eliminated for anyone. He's going to cut public workers' pay and benefits, right? Uh, no; no wage or benefit cuts are contemplated, although worker contributions to health and retirement programs will increase -- to a larger fraction, but still a fraction, of the average contributions in the private sector.
In a way, it's kinda fun watching the shenanigans in Wisconsin and Indiana, and soon to be going on here in Ohio. (We have a GWG -- "Governor With Gonads" -- now too.) Folks are finally getting to see just how rotten the left has become, and just how much it's costing us all.
Quote from: taxed on February 23, 2011, 11:30:11 AM
Uh oh... zip is going to blow a gasket!
Well there. You see? No different then any other posts of Zip's.
Quote from: zip on February 23, 2011, 12:17:36 PM
shhh jerkoff go away...I dont read your posts..>I see your name and Im compelled to tell you what a soft defenseless douchebag you would be in person
Yes. You're compelled. Mostly to put on display what punk you are it seems.
Quote from: zip on February 23, 2011, 12:37:03 PM
Its never arps turn I dont read his posts....
And how could anyone doubt it with you not letting a single opportunity go by to respond to my posts with the assurance that I'm beneath your notice.
Quote
Tbone I dont deny there are abuses...but theres a flaw in your post...Union workers all make the same pay, based on their contract
When you get people making excessive pay they are not union id bet they are managers...blame the politicians for that.
Uh, union boy, everybody getting the same amount's not a good thing. It means the lousiest worker's making the same amount of money as the best. Pride can be a pretty powerful incentive to excel but a couple of extra greenbacks in the pay packet help quite a bit as well.
QuoteBlah, blah, blah. Sturdy, blue collar stock, hard work, change of subject, rotten corporations, fat-cat CEO's, rotten politicians, Muslims, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.
I just thought I'd save everyone some time since you always end up with pretty much the same response.
Now you can wave your pecker around and assure one and all that it's the fairest in the land. Asshole.
Quote from: taxed on February 23, 2011, 11:30:11 AM
Uh oh... zip is going to blow a gasket!
Used to be known as the private sector...
Quote from: taxed on February 23, 2011, 11:30:11 AM
Uh oh... zip is going to blow a gasket!
Why would I blow a gasket? .If its something arpad said...trust me I dont read his posts and I havent since i realized hes got something stuck up in him about unions and the working class and the phony blames them for everything...When Ii see his name on LNF and I make a nasty comment thats the extent of it...hes a phony and I have zero respect for him...and once I decide I dont respect someone...I view dogchit in a more positive way...
Quote from: taxed on February 23, 2011, 01:05:37 PM
Zip, what is "working class"?
You know the answer to that taxed...its walmart workers govt workers...garbage men, cops , firemen...you know the drill
Quote from: zip on February 23, 2011, 03:03:51 PM
Why would I blow a gasket? .If its something arpad said...trust me I dont read his posts and I havent since i realized hes got something stuck up in him about unions and the working class and the phony blames them for everything...When Ii see his name on LNF and I make a nasty comment thats the extent of it...hes a phony and I have zero respect for him...and once I decide I dont respect someone...I view dogchit in a more positive way...
Hmmmmm....side topic...is arpad a she or a he?? you have call s/he both.
Quote from: zip on February 23, 2011, 10:34:26 AM
How would you renew your license so I dont have to give you 4 citations and impound your vehicle
Use AAA., or a private reg a car company.Haven't been in a DMV except to get my picture taken in decades. I have never seen an efficient government agency, city planning is a joke and the post office is a nightmare. Sorry Zip, every time I've dealt with any government office, it seems there is a collective IQ of around 80.Don't get me started on county work crews, a lazier bunch of workers I've never seen.JMO
Quote from: Indy on February 23, 2011, 03:46:34 PM
Use AAA., or a private reg a car company.Haven't been in a DMV except to get my picture taken in decades. I have never seen an efficient government agency, city planning is a joke and the post office is a nightmare. Sorry Zip, every time I've dealt with any government office, it seems there is a collective IQ of around 80.Don't get me started on county work crews, a lazier bunch of workers I've never seen.JMO
I alway see one working and 10 standing around, like the power co. ;)
Correct me if I'm wrong... but the only reason I need a driver's license and vehicle registration in the first place is because government sez so. We're putting up with a very expensive and redundant system that originated nearly a hundred years ago! It's 2011! Why can't we just print a bar code on everybody's bumper and be done with it? :P :P :P
Quote from: tbone0106 on February 23, 2011, 04:39:30 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong... but the only reason I need a driver's license and vehicle registration in the first place is because government sez so. We're putting up with a very expensive and redundant system that originated nearly a hundred years ago! It's 2011! Why can't we just print a bar code on everybody's bumper and be done with it? :P :P :P
Hmmmm... like the car VIN #
Quote from: zip on February 23, 2011, 03:06:20 PM
You know the answer to that taxed...its walmart workers govt workers...garbage men, cops , firemen...you know the drill
But I don't know. Is it income, or how much physical energy they exert? For example, how is someone who makes $300k per year, with other people's money, his marriage, house and assets on the line, working 18 hours per day, every day, losing years of his life due to stress, shelling out half his income in taxes, not in the "working class"?
Quote from: zip on February 23, 2011, 09:21:03 AM
Govt workers pay and benefits keep being compared to the private sectors pay.
I want to ask a question to anyone on this board, aside from arpad which I will not read...I will just make an off the cuff sarcastic comment.
How can it be that the private sector employees have stagnated while the CEO and big boss pays and bonuss' have skyrocketed even in these bad times...even with companies that have had FAILED leadership and took taxpayer bailiouts.
How can that be ? if the corporations are hurting so bad.
Some people believe private sector employees have been screwed by the Big shots and its not that govt workers make more...its private sector isnt making what they should.....
Private Sector VS Federal Government pay... The Fed govt worker makes considerably more than his or her counter part in the private sector. So I agree with everyone else in this thread on that matter of fact.
I dont worry about CEOs and their pay. I do, however resent the Fed Govt collecting all of these hefty taxes from me to give to the fed employees who are not very productive, yet raking in the easy dough from you and me.
Zip, your last sentence is incorrect. Private sector workers are paid according to their level of expertise and knowledge and the demand in this capitalistic society. If there is no demand for something, the private sector worker can not make the big money. I remember in the early to mid 80's when Geologists and Petroleum Engineers suffered in that recession. Some of them were flipping burgers in this country during that time. That is how capitalism works. There is no sure deal and many risks occur. With government workers, there arent any worries to speak of... They continually gain huge pay raises and their pay has gotten out of hand. It is time for a change in the fed govt pay scale. The private workers are not going to continue feeding this HUGE HOG of a federal government as we have been doing.
Revolt is coming again in Nov of 2012.
Sorry chaps but what exactly is the topic?
Quote from: Krell Kneen the Bird Strangler on February 23, 2011, 06:13:35 PM
Sorry chaps but what exactly is the topic?
The public sector is underpaid and the public sector is overpaid.
Quote from: taxed on February 23, 2011, 06:16:05 PM
The public sector is underpaid and the public sector is overpaid.
The public sector is OVERPAID, by waaaaaaaaaaay too much!
Quote from: U_Kay on February 23, 2011, 06:18:21 PM
The public sector is OVERPAID, by waaaaaaaaaaay too much!
Totally! Beyond overpaid, most of them should be working at McDonald's...
Quote from: taxed on February 23, 2011, 06:19:48 PM
Totally! Beyond overpaid, most of them should be working at McDonald's...
I wont disagree with that statement! ;)
Quote from: zip on February 23, 2011, 09:21:03 AM
Govt workers pay and benefits keep being compared to the private sectors pay.
I want to ask a question to anyone on this board, aside from arpad which I will not read...I will just make an off the cuff sarcastic comment.
How can it be that the private sector employees have stagnated while the CEO and big boss pays and bonuss' have skyrocketed even in these bad times...even with companies that have had FAILED leadership and took taxpayer bailiouts.
How can that be ? if the corporations are hurting so bad.
Some people believe private sector employees have been screwed by the Big shots and its not that govt workers make more...its private sector isnt making what they should.....
As a long time state AND federal employee, I feel I am generously compensated both in salary and benefits. My wife is a state employee and her pension plan is far better then mine and her benefits are better then mine. My salary is far better then hers however. I am grateful and acknowledge I have it better then many, if not most.
Quote from: U_Kay on February 23, 2011, 06:18:21 PM
The public sector is OVERPAID, by waaaaaaaaaaay too much!
Not saying you are wrong but can you give an example?
Quote from: republicans2 on February 23, 2011, 07:53:46 PM
As a long time state AND federal employee, I feel I am generously compensated both in salary and benefits. My wife is a state employee and her pension plan is far better then mine and her benefits are better then mine. My salary is far better then hers however. I am grateful and acknowledge I have it better then many, if not most.
Ok thats a fair assesment and I agree with what you said.....you didnt just pull an arpad or a taxed and say all unions and govt workers are overpaid...throw out blanket statements that are based on nothing, but their obvious hatred and disdain for unions and govt workers...
Quote from: zip on February 23, 2011, 07:58:51 PM
Ok thats a fair assesment and I agree with what you said.....you didnt just pull an arpad or a taxed and say all unions and govt workers are overpaid...throw out blanket statements that are based on nothing, but their obvious hatred and disdain for unions and govt workers...
I was a recent union shop steward as well as VP. I sucked though to be honest. Never was very warm to unions but acknowledge they do have a place. I don't think it's appropriate for public unions to take dues and give them to politicians who have votes to give them their benefit packages. I find it distasteful. When you give a large amount of money and support to a campaign, it's expected that candidate will support them when needed. This is not in the best interests of the public (taxpayers). I finally quit the union because of my dues being funneled to candidates I found repulsive. I also had a problem with union officials giving public backing without consulting the unions members. Now you know the rest of the story........
Quote from: republicans2 on February 23, 2011, 07:55:04 PM
Not saying you are wrong but can you give an example?
I am not sure what type of example you are requesting so you may want to do a google search.
Here is what I will site for you concerning the point I am making~
On May 10,2012 Adam Summers wrote an article on "Comparing Private Sectr and Government Worker Salaries" He sited the source US Bureau of Economic Analysis
http://www.cato.org/pubs/journal/cj30n1/cj30n1-5.pdf (http://www.cato.org/pubs/journal/cj30n1/cj30n1-5.pdf)
Please notice the graph on page 89 and you may read what was stated on page 90.
Also, may I add I was a mortgage loan officer until recently. With my line of work, if you wanted the home, show me your tax returns or w-2. Hence, I knew people's pay. City Government workers and State Government workers couldnt compete with Federal Government worker pay. The Fed employees were collecting 'considerably' more pay than the state and city employees. However, all of them received grand benefits for again, on the uniform residential application, they would list retirement plans, etc...
As a matter of fact, I am still shocked at the pay some of these federal employees received for the type of work they performed.
I have a friend today, after high school, he entered the military. After he retired from the military, he took a 250 K job with the Justice department. According to his wife, he now makes 270,000 + yearly. Imagine that?
Quote from: U_Kay on February 24, 2011, 11:39:27 AM
I am not sure what type of example you are requesting so you may want to do a google search.
Here is what I will site for you concerning the point I am making~
On May 10,2012 Adam Summers wrote an article on "Comparing Private Sectr and Government Worker Salaries" He sited the source US Bureau of Economic Analysis
http://www.cato.org/pubs/journal/cj30n1/cj30n1-5.pdf (http://www.cato.org/pubs/journal/cj30n1/cj30n1-5.pdf)
Please notice the graph on page 89 and you may read what was stated on page 90.
Also, may I add I was a mortgage loan officer until recently. With my line of work, if you wanted the home, show me your tax returns or w-2. Hence, I knew people's pay. City Government workers and State Government workers couldnt compete with Federal Government worker pay. The Fed employees were collecting 'considerably' more pay than the state and city employees. However, all of them received grand benefits for again, on the uniform residential application, they would list retirement plans, etc...
As a matter of fact, I am still shocked at the pay some of these federal employees received for the type of work they performed.
I have a friend today, after high school, he entered the military. After he retired from the military, he took a 250 K job with the Justice department. According to his wife, he now makes 270,000 + yearly. Imagine that?
I know people in the private sector that make at least that much. Proves nothing. I thought you had something specific to show. It's interesting to me. I'm torn due to my status. I think I'm fair in my assessments but it's difficult to actually get a handle on it. I'm sure some public workers make too much but some don't make enough. I think it's all in how you see things. I know many people where I work drive up in some pretty nice cars. I also think we've been pitted against one another in many ways. Our society gets caught up in materialistic things while ignoring the important things in life that should be valued the most.
I will probably stay out of this discussion because I am a "County" worker. I make a decent salary but I do work my butt off for it. I worked my way up through the ranks to the level I am. My job is an unrepresented job - no union. I have mentioned before that for the last 4 years I have had no raises, no COLA's, and my health insurance has gone up every year I have been with the county. When I retire at 55+ I won't be pulling in a large pension and I will be paying for a portion of my health insurance. Bottom line it is not all sunshine and roses for some government employees. But at least I do have a job...for now. :)
Quote from: republicans2 on February 24, 2011, 08:50:01 PM
I know people in the private sector that make at least that much. Proves nothing. I thought you had something specific to show. It's interesting to me. I'm torn due to my status. I think I'm fair in my assessments but it's difficult to actually get a handle on it. I'm sure some public workers make too much but some don't make enough. I think it's all in how you see things. I know many people where I work drive up in some pretty nice cars. I also think we've been pitted against one another in many ways. Our society gets caught up in materialistic things while ignoring the important things in life that should be valued the most.
I cited the US Bureau of Economic Analysis with providing a link. Did you scroll down to the graph and read it and page 90? What specific do you want to see? I suggested you google this subject also. It is a fact and there are numerous articles concerning this fact.
You think you are fair in your assessment, but you are a government employee. How can you be so sure you are fair in your assessment? I think you are more fair than most who walk in your government employee shoes, but this subject is smething that you can easily google and learn. You actually do not need me to prove this case. It has already been proven. Simply take an hour of your time and learn about it.
I agree that we are fixated on material things in life instead of many of the more important things in life. However, owning a new car or having a fine one is not a big deal. Also, I have friends who are government employees. I am ok with them making their livings working for Uncle Sam. The pitting isnt what it appears. I harbor no resentment. I simply think the government has been growing and it has got to change. We, the taxpayers, cant afford to continue to sustain this path we are on presently.
Quote from: republicans2 on February 24, 2011, 08:50:01 PM
I know people in the private sector that make at least that much. Proves nothing. I thought you had something specific to show. It's interesting to me. I'm torn due to my status. I think I'm fair in my assessments but it's difficult to actually get a handle on it. I'm sure some public workers make too much but some don't make enough. I think it's all in how you see things. I know many people where I work drive up in some pretty nice cars. I also think we've been pitted against one another in many ways. Our society gets caught up in materialistic things while ignoring the important things in life that should be valued the most.
There are public workers that make PEANUTS....but of course they are never discussed...and when you read about public workers making horrific salaries they are not the union public workers they are the politica appointees the managers and Governors Confidential Agents. In jersey the governor and each Dept head have X amount of confidential agent slots in thier depts where they PICK THE SALARY and stick their buddies an relatives in...I have been waiting patiently along with my son in laws for Christie to ATTACK THAT...no mention from him yet...and were talking in the millions of GIMMES to non union BUDDIES...That doenst seem to bother the union worker haters though.
There are some public workers that need to "GIVE" in this climate...theres no doubt about that...and I also agree pensions cant keep skyrocketing...I dont disagree with you all about that....what I totally disagree with is the constant bashing of the workers by wankers like arpad that blame them for everything and anything and claim they have caused all the debt...that is just a BIG PILE OF DUNG...
Apparently this item bears repeating since it presents some facts.
Quote from: arpad on February 23, 2011, 11:28:04 AM
Just to stay on topic, and before Zip comes back with one of his "off the cuff sarcastic comment(s)", here's a little item from the Bureau of Labor Statistics - link (http://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/ecec.pdf)
If you don't want to bother with the paper, state and local government employees make 44% more then private sector employees doing similar jobs. Similar jobs.
A couple of graphs from the linked pdf:
(https://conservativepoliticalforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi970.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fae189%2Farpad1%2Fcostperhour2.png&hash=2cc26c40ce6dc4dc4511de1bdf05aaf297ece00e)
(https://conservativepoliticalforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi970.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fae189%2Farpad1%2Fcostperhourforbennies2.png&hash=b180251717fea52f65ad793f2f66c8490abedc57)
So yeah, overpaid. And until recently not nearly concerned enough with keeping their well-paid jobs.
Arp, state and local workers do not make nearly as much as Fed employees. The Fed pays quite a bit more than state and local governments... quite a bit more!
Quote from: U_Kay on February 25, 2011, 05:22:14 PM
Arp, state and local workers do not make nearly as much as Fed employees. The Fed pays quite a bit more than state and local governments... quite a bit more!
Could be but my concern is the state and municipal employees. They're the ones with the bennies that'll sink the states.
Quote from: arpad on February 25, 2011, 06:21:43 PM
Could be but my concern is the state and municipal employees. They're the ones with the bennies that'll sink the states.
I understand your point.
Quote from: U_Kay on February 25, 2011, 05:22:14 PM
Arp, state and local workers do not make nearly as much as Fed employees. The Fed pays quite a bit more than state and local governments... quite a bit more!
I'd like to see that. Not saying it's not true but you have hundreds of municipalities across the US and 50 different states. My wife works for the state, I work for the feds. Her pension AND benefits are better then mine. Most federal employees get 1% for each year. I get 1.7% for the first 20 then 1% for each year after. New York State gives 2% per year up until 30 years then 1.5% for each year after with a cap of 80% of their salary. Plus the federal retirement uses the salary (no overtime). So if you make $60,000 that's it. The state uses overtime so a $60,000 salary could bring a pension much higher.
Out of curiosity, pub, does your wife pay into Social Security? I know you do, and I think most state and local workers do, but not all. It's a question I've seen popping up a lot in recent days.
Quote from: republicans2 on February 25, 2011, 08:30:51 PM
I'd like to see that. Not saying it's not true but you have hundreds of municipalities across the US and 50 different states. My wife works for the state, I work for the feds. Her pension AND benefits are better then mine. Most federal employees get 1% for each year. I get 1.7% for the first 20 then 1% for each year after. New York State gives 2% per year up until 30 years then 1.5% for each year after with a cap of 80% of their salary. Plus the federal retirement uses the salary (no overtime). So if you make $60,000 that's it. The state uses overtime so a $60,000 salary could bring a pension much higher.
I only saw proof of 1 federal worker who earned a little less than $60,000.00 when she bought a home. (She worked in the Social Security Department and had been there 3 years. She was 25 years old and making $56,000.) All of the other federal employees made above $60,000.00 when they came to get a mortgage.
As for the state workers, I saw only a few who made over $60,000.00 ~ gather I am in Mississippi. The other state workers made under $60,000. and have been with the state for quite a while too!
Of course this is not proof for you. However, it is plenty enough proof for me. What I witnessed as a mortgage loan officer was priceless! I have been out of the business since 2006, but I do remember it well enough. Kurt (Cowdude) was or is in the same line of work (mortgage industry) in some form or fashion.
Quote from: tbone0106 on February 25, 2011, 09:12:30 PM
Out of curiosity, pub, does your wife pay into Social Security? I know you do, and I think most state and local workers do, but not all. It's a question I've seen popping up a lot in recent days.
Yes she does. I'm quite sure all state and local employees do. They'd have to get an exemption. How'd they do that?
Quote from: U_Kay on February 25, 2011, 09:37:16 PM
I only saw proof of 1 federal worker who earned a little less than $60,000.00 when she bought a home. (She worked in the Social Security Department and had been there 3 years. She was 25 years old and making $56,000.) All of the other federal employees made above $60,000.00 when they came to get a mortgage.
As for the state workers, I saw only a few who made over $60,000.00 ~ gather I am in Mississippi. The other state workers made under $60,000. and have been with the state for quite a while too!
Of course this is not proof for you. However, it is plenty enough proof for me. What I witnessed as a mortgage loan officer was priceless! I have been out of the business since 2006, but I do remember it well enough. Kurt (Cowdude) was or is in the same line of work (mortgage industry) in some form or fashion.
You are right, not enough evidence for me but again, not saying you're not right though, you may be. If you are in Miss. then I'm quite sure that yes, federal employees do make more then the state or local government workers. One thing about federal employees. If you live in what they consider a high cost of living area they give you more. Here are the salary tables for some, if not most, federal employees:
http://www.opm.gov/oca/11tables/index.asp
Law enforcement is on a different pay scale. There are 10 steps in pay. #'s 1-4 are given yearly with a satisfactory rating. #'s 5-7 come every two years while #'s 8-10 come every three years. Someone in Mississippi doing the exact same work would make much less then a person living in Houston or San Francisco. Hope this helps from my perspective.
I view cops and firemen/women the same way I do the military....they are necessary and they should be paid well and recieve benefits....they keep America safe.... what better cause is there?
I just don't think it's right for Unions to make it impossible to fire shitty workers....there is no real motivation for them to do a "good" job, so they don't work as hard at people in the private sector who have to do a good job to keep their job...
I'm also sick to death of the unions putting these freakin dems in office.
Quote from: Josie on February 26, 2011, 08:47:51 PM
I view cops and firemen/women the same way I do the military....they are necessary and they should be paid well and recieve benefits....they keep America safe.... what better cause is there?
I just don't think it's right for Unions to make it impossible to fire shitty workers....there is no real motivation for them to do a "good" job, so they don't work as hard at people in the private sector who have to do a good job to keep their job...
I'm also sick to death of the unions putting these freakin dems in office.
Who do you think makes sure the unions get what they want? ;)
Repub, I suppose to some degree, yes, I understand your point of view. However, it doesnt change my perspective on this matter. The fed employee makes a handsome salary in comparison to most state and local public empoyees. I wont even discuss how well off the fed employee has it in comparison to many private workers.
Mortgage Lending was where I learned plenty enough about people's pay. I saw the proof of their pay in different fields daily. You can speak for yourself and your wife. That is another point I understand.
@ Josie, it would be very difficult for anyone to disagree with you and win. It appears the unions have become greedy and very demanding!
Quote from: U_Kay on February 26, 2011, 09:24:10 PM
Repub, I suppose to some degree, yes, I understand your point of view. However, it doesnt change my perspective on this matter. The fed employee makes a handsome salary in comparison to most state and local public empoyees. I wont even discuss how well off the fed employee has it in comparison to many private workers.
Mortgage Lending was where I learned plenty enough about people's pay. I saw the proof of their pay in different fields daily. You can speak for yourself and your wife. That is another point I understand.
@ Josie, it would be very difficult for anyone to disagree with you and win. It appears the unions have become greedy and very demanding!
I don't want to come across as argumentative but I think it's important to understand that the government unions aren't doing anything most any person, or group of people, wouldn't do in their position.
People
are greedy. There's no getting around that but when your greed is satisfied that just makes many people greedier.
So the government unions, having gotten years of unearned raises and benefit increases now see it as right and proper that the situation go on forever. And even if the raises and benefit bumps aren't going to keep going on certainly what they got in the past is sacrosanct. There's nothing especially evil in that; it's what most people would do given the same situation.
What we've lost sight of is that a job does have a certain value and getting paid more then that value doesn't increase the value of the job.
If the kid down the block gets $10 for raking leaves but can sweet-talk someone into giving him $100 for the job does that make it a $100 job? No. The job's still worth $10. The kid's just lucked into some special circumstances. Same thing with the unions. All those pay increases didn't come about because the jobs became more valuable but because the unions were in a position to get more money.
Quote from: U_Kay on February 26, 2011, 09:24:10 PM
Repub, I suppose to some degree, yes, I understand your point of view. However, it doesnt change my perspective on this matter. The fed employee makes a handsome salary in comparison to most state and local public empoyees. I wont even discuss how well off the fed employee has it in comparison to many private workers.
Mortgage Lending was where I learned plenty enough about people's pay. I saw the proof of their pay in different fields daily. You can speak for yourself and your wife. That is another point I understand.
@ Josie, it would be very difficult for anyone to disagree with you and win. It appears the unions have become greedy and very demanding!
My perspective seems to be unique as I am a public employee who is AGAINST collective bargaining rights. DEAD against. Unions dues being channeled to politicians for their votes on benefits and salary is wrong. I'll be damned if I'm paying dues to fund the Democratic Party.
@ Arp, I comprehend what you are saying and I pretty much agree with you. No, I dont view what you are saying as arguing. We are all discussing this issue.
Arp stated:
QuoteIf the kid down the block gets $10 for raking leaves but can sweet-talk someone into giving him $100 for the job does that make it a $100 job? No. The job's still worth $10. The kid's just lucked into some special circumstances. Same thing with the unions. All those pay increases didn't come about because the jobs became more valuable but because the unions were in a position to get more money.
I completely agree. The little 25 year old young lady who came to me as a Fed employee working for Social Secuirty was by far not the sharpest tool in the shed and with a measley 4 yr college degree... (I cant recall if it was a history or sociology degree or what... but it was a tootie degree) Where in Mississippi in 2001 could a 25 year old make that type of money on a nothing degree? You couldnt do that with an engineering degree, I dont believe nor with many medical 4 year degrees. Even a physical therapist with 3 years experience was only making around that amount in this state, but they needed 5 years of schooling. (I think there were strings pulled for this young lady. I cant recall the details, but I told her she was making an impressive salary. She agreed with a comment that didnt go without me making a note of it.) I bet had Repub had the same job as this young lady in 2001, same degree, etc... he wouldnt have been making as much as she.
Also, I am NOT here to beat down all government employees. I am sure there are some who pull their fair share of load plus pull for others too. I am simply convinced that if many of them were to enter the private sector, they would find out just how hard it actually is....
Let me tell you a little about myself.
~~Sometimes I Win, Sometimes I Lose~~~
I broke my right ankle and a foot bone. Since then, I have been at home and today, I have only a slight limp. Things continue to look up. (Keep in mind the Dr wanted to surgically implant screws and such.... I said NO WAY! God will heal me and He did, but it has been a very slow go. (I WIN- no pins, etc.)) Now since I have been a self-employed person, I had no income coming in. (I LOSE) It was tough luck for me and luckily I have a husband who is able to swing the load alone for we are sensible people living within our means. :))
Prior to my injury, I had to leave the real estate mortgage industry to head toward the money... I became a Site Acquisition Agent (acquired tower sites... thru purchasing land or renting land for cell phone companies) Yes, I made my fair pay once again with the down turn in real estate. I knew the going rates in site acquisition and such and knew how to charge for the services I provided, etc. So I was able to make lemonade out of the career I had chosen in life when many struggled~ I WON by changing slightly to tower work. After being out of the work force for 2 years due to this bad foot and ankle, I got a call a couple of weeks ago.... They begged me literally to come back and do a little work for them (the cellular company) so I finally agreed and at the same old rate in the next state over from where I live.) I have gone to work 2 days this past week. Yesterday while out there, I received a call from a guy who is doing the same work over in the same state as me. He asked me if I were thrilled to be making the good money now. I asked him to elaborate because I am trying to mult-task on my end. He did. I came to learn he is charging 4 times what I am charging. :o :-[ Apparently, the fees in that state are astronomically high in comparison to the fees in the state I live in. I didnt do my homework as I ordinarily know better. It was totally my fault. However, I am not losing. I am ok, but 1 job I did, I made 1200 dollars for 4 hours worth of work~(I WON) I could have charged 4000 for the job and so I live and learn. (I LOST... but did I?) *shrugs*
The other 6 jobs I have left to do for the company... I will charge my MS fees in Alabama. I agreed on it so its the thing to do. After that, I will do my homework and either continue working or stay home. I am temporarily working for them any way on 10 sites. That was the deal.
Some how, if I were in a union, I am sure I would have gotten that 4000 dollars per site. To be fair, 4000 is entirely too much for this type work. No wonder Alabama has so many drop calls in comparison to Mississippi. The leases are too high for towers and the site acquisition agents are charging too, the tower contractors are charging too much, build to suit tower contractors are charging too much... and on and on... Alabama pricing from beginning to end is highway robbery in the cellular business. People need cell phone service. No such thing as phone booths any more. That cell phone bubble needs to pop like the housing bubble popped... For that matter, car industry bubble needs to pop and so does cost of higher learning! (that is another topic though.)
So now you know my story of winning and losing, but that is private sector work for you. It is the path I chose in life so.... We take risks and sometimes we win, sometimes we los. I am not crying, but I was embarrassed yesterday to admit a little truth to the guy. "I am charging my old rates." Why? "Because they seemed desperate and I could use some extra money."
DANG it, I wish I were a union woman! :))
Quote from: arpad on February 27, 2011, 05:51:58 AM
I don't want to come across as argumentative but I think it's important to understand that the government unions aren't doing anything most any person, or group of people, wouldn't do in their position.
People are greedy. There's no getting around that but when your greed is satisfied that just makes many people greedier.
So the government unions, having gotten years of unearned raises and benefit increases now see it as right and proper that the situation go on forever. And even if the raises and benefit bumps aren't going to keep going on certainly what they got in the past is sacrosanct. There's nothing especially evil in that; it's what most people would do given the same situation.
What we've lost sight of is that a job does have a certain value and getting paid more then that value doesn't increase the value of the job.
If the kid down the block gets $10 for raking leaves but can sweet-talk someone into giving him $100 for the job does that make it a $100 job? No. The job's still worth $10. The kid's just lucked into some special circumstances. Same thing with the unions. All those pay increases didn't come about because the jobs became more valuable but because the unions were in a position to get more money.
So right on Arpad.
I would say there are two types of greedy people. I am OK with greed, as I believe when allowed to exist within ethical bounds and the law, it is very helpful, for example, the guy who saves up his money to buy a new Corvette he thinks about every day, versus the guy who breaks the window of one and steals it. Both really wanted it, but one chose to go about the right way to do it, while the other said "F* society; that's mine!".
Union/gov workers who do their jobs and collect higher salaries and benefits are not the problem. The union that makes it that way is the problem. The union/gov worker who is in the line of fire during a much needed restructuring and says "F* society; this is mine!" is a problem.
The reality is, we need people to run and maintain our defense, law enforcement, correctional facilities, and emergency responders. So, we need people to work these jobs. These are service jobs. They are serving the greater good, and aren't entitled to big bucks and insane pensions and benefits. If you are in these jobs for the wealth, then you are in them for the wrong reasons.
Of course, we can (and I think we should) take it one step further. Instead of concentrating on the greed of individual public employees (a human trait they share with everyone else), we can focus on what feeds that greed, what makes its fulfillment possible, what holds the promise of ever more to come -- the politicians who are the 'enablers,' to borrow a term from pop-psych.
Public sector unions are middle class welfare programs. They share that one big ugly feature prevalent in all welfare programs -- including Social Security -- in that they are designed to purchase (capture) votes by confiscating money from one group under threat of force and giving that money to another group who will then be likely to vote for further handouts. The public employee union problem in Wisconsin, for example, is much more than a crisis of dollars and cents.
Wisconsin is one of the most heavily-unionized states in the union. Approximately one in four voters lives in a "union household." One in seven Wisconsin voters belongs to a public employee union. Couple this with the fact that unions in general -- public and private sector -- tend to support Democrats by massive proportions (around 95% of public-sector union contributions went to Dems in 2010). It's not hard to see the symbiosis here. Yet another hook-line-and-sinker catch of a carefully defined and selected voter bloc for the liberal/progressive Democrats.
The fight shouldn't be an economic one. It is, and must be addressed as, a political fight. We're battling legitimized socialism/communism, and we should be finding ways to eliminate it as such. The money is an issue, sure, but the REAL issue is what that money buys.
Quote from: tbone0106 on February 27, 2011, 12:29:39 PM
The fight shouldn't be an economic one. It is, and must be addressed as, a political fight. We're battling legitimized socialism/communism, and we should be finding ways to eliminate it as such. The money is an issue, sure, but the REAL issue is what that money buys.
Those last three sentences hits the nail on the head, T! Well stated!
Re: Do Govt workers make to much (http://conservativepoliticalforum.com/index.php?topic=1965.msg18440#msg18440)?Absolutely, if they are making more than the private sector in a Capitalist society, then they need an adjustment downward immediately!
There needs to be a law that states they can't make more than the private sector, including benefits.
Quote from: Solar on February 27, 2011, 06:29:04 PM
Re: Do Govt workers make to much (http://conservativepoliticalforum.com/index.php?topic=1965.msg18440#msg18440)?Absolutely, if they are making more than the private sector in a Capitalist society, then they need an adjustment downward immediately!
There needs to be a law that states they can't make more than the private sector, including benefits.
Make that Average Private Sector and I will say ok.
Quote from: walkstall on February 27, 2011, 06:35:30 PM
Make that Average Private Sector and I will say ok.
Thats what I had in mind, but you're right, if we don't spell it out, they would take Google employees as a bench mark.
Quote from: Solar on February 27, 2011, 06:38:23 PM
Thats what I had in mind, but you're right, if we don't spell it out, they would take Google employees as a bench mark.
Ok you got my vote. ;D
Duke brought our smilies back.
Also, you can open up your text area by dragging the two double lines under the text box....
Quote from: taxed on February 27, 2011, 06:52:13 PM
Duke brought our smilies back.
Also, you can open up your text area by dragging the two double lines under the text box....
Hmmmm.....I have alway had the smilies and could drag the text box open from day one. I only had the problem of thing being wide when they did the up date and then they fixed it.
Quote from: walkstall on February 27, 2011, 07:11:09 PM
Hmmmm.....I have alway had the smilies and could drag the text box open from day one. I only had the problem of thing being wide when they did the up date and then they fixed it.
hmmm, mine weren't working, but they are now....
Quote from: taxed on February 27, 2011, 07:16:24 PM
hmmm, mine weren't working, but they are now....
Hmmm...mom always like me best. :P
Quote from: walkstall on February 27, 2011, 07:22:44 PM
Hmmm...mom always like me best. :P
Duke always loved you best...
Quote from: taxed on February 27, 2011, 07:27:52 PM
Duke always loved you best...
I don't know but I am a lovable person so my good wife tell me. ;D
Quote from: walkstall on February 27, 2011, 07:47:40 PM
I don't know but I am a lovable person so my good wife tell me. ;D
Any man who takes 33 dollars and leaves over 4 K for the good wife has to be lovable!