Quote from: zip on February 23, 2011, 09:21:03 AM
  I want to ask a question to anyone on this board, aside from arpad which I will not read...I will just make an off the cuff sarcastic comment.

Oh, of course you'll read what I write. We've been through this before.

Just to stay on topic, and before Zip comes back with one of his "off the cuff sarcastic comment(s)", here's a little item from the Bureau of Labor Statistics - link

If you don't want to bother with the paper, state and local government employees make 44% more then private sector employees doing similar jobs. Similar jobs.

So yeah, overpaid.

Uh oh... zip is going to blow a gasket!

Quote from: arpad on February 23, 2011, 11:28:04 AM
Oh, of course you'll read what I write. We've been through this before.

Just to stay on topic, and before Zip comes back with one of his "off the cuff sarcastic comment(s)", here's a little item from the Bureau of Labor Statistics - link

If you don't want to bother with the paper, state and local government employees make 44% more then private sector employees doing similar jobs. Similar jobs.

So yeah, overpaid.

shhh jerkoff go away...I dont read your posts..>I see your name and Im compelled to tell you what a soft defenseless douchebag you would be in person

Quote from: tbone0106 on February 23, 2011, 11:26:14 AM
Zip, I recently posted about a county worker (occupation unknown, but a career county worker) in California who retired on a $178,000/year pension. The article didn't mention the worker's age, and it didn't mention health care benefits, though they were probably thrown in for free -- that is common. Does this sound reasonable to you?

In New York City, one in three city cops who retire (after as little as 20 years working, some barely 40 years old) do so on a claim of disability. Almost ALL city firemen retire on disability. Is working as a cop or a fireman in NYC so horribly dangerous or debilitating that physical disability is practically inevitable? Or could those workers perhaps be gaming a system that is VERY easy to game?

Going back to NYC, until recently the city had a number of what were derisively called "rubber rooms" for teachers. These were essentially holding pens for city-employed teachers who had screwed up so badly (some were sex offenders) that the city wouldn't permit them inside a classroom -- EVER again -- but because of union agreements and political pressure, these teachers couldn't be fired by the city. Year after year, New York taxpayers were ponying up $70 million to pay these useless parasites to sit in a room and watch Oprah. Does this make sense to you?

Since 1979, education spending (taxpayer dollars) has nearly tripled. One would think that  the quality of our public education system would have increased markedly over that time. Do you think that has happened, Zip?

Public sector unions were granted their collective bargaining rights in 1962, by executive order of John F. Kennedy. This act was not a response to any particular problem; Civil Service workers were already quite nicely compensated. Instead, it was a blatant political ploy on Kennedy's part to help members of his party get elected. By 1975, Victor Gotbaum, a leader in the American Federation of State and County Municipal Employees (AFSCME), was able to boast, "We have the ability, in a sense, to elect our own boss." Between 1989 and 2004, the AFSCME spent over $40 million of its members' dues to help its favored politicians get elected. 98.5% of that money went to Democrats. Do you think maybe there's a political tilt to public employee unions? Perhaps they favor the "party of government?"

Pop quiz, Zip. In the 2010 election cycle, who was the largest single outside donor to political candidates? If you guessed Archer Daniels Midland or Exxon/Mobil  or Boeing, sorry. If you guessed that it was AFSCME, you get to move to the front! Oh yeah, and 98% of the money went to Democrats. Hmmm.... Is there a pattern here, Zip?

Let's look at the top political contributors, the real "heavy hitters," for the period 1989-2010. ("Follow the money!") The top 14 on the list donated nearly half a billion dollars over that time, most of it to Democrats. (Of the top 14, only AT&T favored Republicans, 55% to 44% of donations.) Nine of the top 14 were unions, and 95% of their donations went to Democrats. Four of the top 14 were public-employee unions: AFSCME ($43.5 million, 98% to Dems), National Education Association ($32 million, 93% to Dems), Service Employees International Union -- the now-infamous purple-shirted SEIU ($29.1 million, 95% to Dems), and the American Federation of Teachers ($28.4 million, 98% to Dems). Zip, can you see a pattern?

Government workers DO make too much, on average FAR more than their counterparts in private industry. And I get to say that, Zip, because I'm a TAXPAYER and therefore a DIRECT employer of those government workers. I see a system where "unions" of political origin and political purpose use the political system for political gain, and use their members as cash cows. Zip, can you name the very best city in the US for finding a job right now, the ONLY major city in the entire NATION where total employment has INCREASED since the Great Recession took hold three years ago? I'll give you three guesses. (HINT: It's Washington, DC.)

Should private corporations be rewarding their executives with huge bonuses for mediocre performance? No, of course not. That is a stupid thing to do, and I'm seldom in favor of doing stupid things. But in the private-sector marketplace, such things have a way of stopping after a while. Sooner or later, somebody says, "Hey, what are we paying that asshole for?" And the asshole is out the door.

But that ain't the way it works with government unions, is it, Zip?

Government workers' pay and benefits are compared to those in the private sector because that's what there is to compare them to, Zip.

You say that "some people believe private sector employees have been screwed... [and aren't] making what they should...." What they "should?" What they "should" according to whom, Zip? You? From a compensation standpoint, the primary difference between government unions and those in the private sector is the fact that private sector employees are subject to market forces, and government union members are not. Government employment is in no way connected to any market, which is EXACTLY why the phrase "public employee union" should not exist in the English language.

OK, arp. Your turn.  :P :P :P

    Its never arps turn I dont read his posts....

   Tbone I dont deny there are abuses...but theres a flaw in your post...Union workers all make the same pay, based on their contract
When you get people making excessive pay they are not union id bet they are managers...blame the politicians for that.

    I am not a union supporter. Im not a fan of unions and im certainly not a fan of union heads living the high life on their members dues.
I am howerver very much a supporter of the working class of which I consider myself one of...no matter how wealthy I became through hard work...I am from working class roots. Im certain I pay as much tax as most of you.
   I fully realize that there is a big debt problem..and something has to be done. I dont disagree govt workers need to take a hit. Give backs are not unreasonable and pay freezes for a certain amount of time isnt unreasonable either.
    I utterly disagree with why we are in debt...it is not because of the working class pay and benefits of course it adds to it.
I am more than willing to agree the unions have gone to far and they were emboldened by a house, senate and WH full of libs.
   To listen to some of you tell it...the workers have murdered the country. lol please....lets get into all the failed pos corporations, lets talk about their IRRESPONSIBILITY in giving away their money to bums that could never repay...lets talk about fannie and freddie failing...lets talk about bush's 700 billion bailout to big corporations and big financial institutions like Goldman Sachs...lets talk about Obama and his trillion dollar give away...THATS WHY WERE BROKE and dont try and bullshit me its all the govt workers fault ..

   Its a two way street...but some of you guys just want it one way and you refuse to acknowledge any wrongdoing or fault by the real culprits....
   Private sector employees are UNDERPAID. They are more UNDERPAID than Govt workers are OVERPAID.

   Goldman Sachs Group tripled Chief Executive Lloyd Blankfein's base salary and awarded him $12.6 million of stock, even after the bank's net income plunged last year.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/01/29/us-goldmansachs-pay-idUSTRE70R8FP20110129?feedType=RSS&feedName=businessNews&rpc=23&sp=true

     The gov of wisconsin caused the unrest and I agree with the protesters TOTALLY and I will tell you why...the gov of wisconsin is not god...wisconsin isnt libya and Saudi Arabia where hes the ruler...he said this is what is going to happen all of you STFU you have nothing to say...and you all thought what?  everyone that disagreed with him was going to whimper bow down and say YES MY LORD,
He  could have handled it much differently and still got his way. He may get his way...but its not going to be the end...
     

Zip, what is "working class"?

Funny you should mention Goldman Sachs. They were #5 on that list of top political donors. From 1989-2010, they gave over $33 million to political candidates; 61% of the money went to Democrats. Hmmm...

Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae should be abolished today. Dismantled, defunded, rendered non-existent. And for the history books, they should be renamed Barney Chris and Frankie Dodd. In the same way that unions have no place in government, so the interference in the home mortgage market has no place.

Right now, Wisconsin faces a $77 billion unfunded obligation toward retirement fund of the state's unionized workers. Let's get some perspective here... The Wisconsin Retirement System is the 28th largest pension fund of any kind -- public or private -- in the world. If I'm the governor and I see that my state is teetering on the edge of insolvency, I'm going to tackle the big items first. The Wisconsin Retirement System, and the way it's funded, would seem to qualify as a "big item."

Why are we in debt? That's kind of a general question, and a general answer will suffice: we spend (through our governments) a LOT more than we can afford. To fix the problem, we either have to spend a LOT less (cut gov't programs, such as ridiculously-generous public employee pensions), collect a LOT more money (increase taxes -- now THERE's a popular idea!), or some combination of the two. The time is long past when we can afford "sacred cows."

Now, as for the governor (what was his name, God?), what exactly is he proposing with this new law? He's going to get rid of the unions, right? Well, no, he's not; nothing in the new law affects union membership. He's going to eliminate collective bargaining for government workers, right? Um, no, he's not; collective bargaining would be unaffected for public safety workers, and capped as to wage increases by the CPI for others, but not eliminated for anyone. He's going to cut public workers' pay and benefits, right? Uh, no; no wage or benefit cuts are contemplated, although worker contributions to health and retirement programs will increase -- to a larger fraction, but still a fraction, of the average contributions in the private sector.

In a way, it's kinda fun watching the shenanigans in Wisconsin and Indiana, and soon to be going on here in Ohio. (We have a GWG -- "Governor With Gonads" -- now too.) Folks are finally getting to see just how rotten the left has become, and just how much it's costing us all.

Quote from: taxed on February 23, 2011, 11:30:11 AM
Uh oh... zip is going to blow a gasket!

Well there. You see? No different then any other posts of Zip's.

Quote from: zip on February 23, 2011, 12:17:36 PM
shhh jerkoff go away...I dont read your posts..>I see your name and Im compelled to tell you what a soft defenseless douchebag you would be in person

Yes. You're compelled. Mostly to put on display what punk you are it seems.

Quote from: zip on February 23, 2011, 12:37:03 PM
    Its never arps turn I dont read his posts....

And how could anyone doubt it with you not letting a single opportunity go by to respond to my posts with the assurance that I'm beneath your notice.

Quote
   Tbone I dont deny there are abuses...but theres a flaw in your post...Union workers all make the same pay, based on their contract
When you get people making excessive pay they are not union id bet they are managers...blame the politicians for that.

Uh, union boy, everybody getting the same amount's not a good thing. It means the lousiest worker's making the same amount of money as the best. Pride can be a pretty powerful incentive to excel but a couple of extra greenbacks in the pay packet help quite a bit as well.

QuoteBlah, blah, blah. Sturdy, blue collar stock, hard work, change of subject, rotten corporations, fat-cat CEO's, rotten politicians, Muslims, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

I just thought I'd save everyone some time since you always end up with pretty much the same response.

Now you can wave your pecker around and assure one and all that it's the fairest in the land. Asshole.

Quote from: taxed on February 23, 2011, 11:30:11 AM
Uh oh... zip is going to blow a gasket!

Used to be known as the private sector...

Quote from: taxed on February 23, 2011, 11:30:11 AM
Uh oh... zip is going to blow a gasket!

  Why would I blow a gasket? .If its something arpad said...trust me I dont read his posts and I havent since i realized hes got something stuck up in him about unions and the working class and the phony blames them for everything...When Ii see his name on LNF and I make a nasty comment thats the extent of it...hes a phony and I have zero respect for him...and once I decide I dont respect someone...I view dogchit in a more positive way...

Quote from: taxed on February 23, 2011, 01:05:37 PM
Zip, what is "working class"?

    You know the answer to that taxed...its walmart workers govt workers...garbage men, cops , firemen...you know the drill

Quote from: zip on February 23, 2011, 03:03:51 PM
  Why would I blow a gasket? .If its something arpad said...trust me I dont read his posts and I havent since i realized hes got something stuck up in him about unions and the working class and the phony blames them for everything...When Ii see his name on LNF and I make a nasty comment thats the extent of it...hes a phony and I have zero respect for him...and once I decide I dont respect someone...I view dogchit in a more positive way...

Hmmmmm....side topic...is arpad a she or a he?? you have call s/he both.

Quote from: zip on February 23, 2011, 10:34:26 AM
    How would you renew your license so I dont have to give you 4 citations and impound your vehicle

Use AAA., or a private reg a car company.Haven't been in a DMV except to get my picture taken in decades. I have never seen an efficient government agency, city planning is a joke and the post office is a nightmare. Sorry Zip, every time I've dealt with any government office, it seems there is a collective IQ of around 80.Don't get me started on county work crews, a lazier bunch of workers I've never seen.JMO

Quote from: Indy on February 23, 2011, 03:46:34 PM
Use AAA., or a private reg a car company.Haven't been in a DMV except to get my picture taken in decades. I have never seen an efficient government agency, city planning is a joke and the post office is a nightmare. Sorry Zip, every time I've dealt with any government office, it seems there is a collective IQ of around 80.Don't get me started on county work crews, a lazier bunch of workers I've never seen.JMO

I alway see one working and 10 standing around, like the power co.   ;)

Correct me if I'm wrong... but the only reason I need a driver's license and vehicle registration in the first place is because government sez so. We're putting up with a very expensive and redundant system that originated nearly a hundred years ago! It's 2011! Why can't we just print a bar code on everybody's bumper and be done with it?  :P :P :P

Quote from: tbone0106 on February 23, 2011, 04:39:30 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong... but the only reason I need a driver's license and vehicle registration in the first place is because government sez so. We're putting up with a very expensive and redundant system that originated nearly a hundred years ago! It's 2011! Why can't we just print a bar code on everybody's bumper and be done with it?  :P :P :P

Hmmmm... like the car VIN #