Quote from: Tory Potter on February 20, 2023, 09:39:45 AMWhat have Presidents Obama and Biden have to do with President Putin's invasion of a sovereign country?
Go back and read about the holodomor.
(I'm sorry, but I don't click on links. I have no confidence in the veracity of the Epoch Times. )
We disagree on what constitutes a reliable reference.

Thats not something you can agree or disagree on, its based on objective facts, like history.

A sources credibility is determined by their reputation which is determined by their history of lying or telling the truth.
To claim epoch times is not credible you would have to show us a time or two where they lied....

Quote from: Possum on February 21, 2023, 10:38:56 AMOr he is just a mouth piece for the left. He's Zen's kissing cousin, they are not here to debate, they are here to scream "you're wrong, there is no proof, I don't believe it........

...there's not a enough Kool-Aid in the world for those two...

Quote from: Solar on February 21, 2023, 12:44:58 PM   
I agree, I excuse a lot of his ignorance on the fact that he doesn't even live here.
But when he does so called "research", it's always leftist news sites.
He wants to remain stupid, it's probably safer that way, considering he does currently reside in a fascist state.

He's going to be like one of those old commies from the USSR days who made it to old age without being tossed in the gulag because he played dumb and ratted out the neighbors...

Quote from: taxed on February 21, 2023, 07:00:52 PMHe's going to be like one of those old commies from the USSR days who made it to old age without being tossed in the gulag because he played dumb and ratted out the neighbors...

Bernie Sanders is his hero.

Quote from: Solar on February 21, 2023, 07:09:00 PMBernie Sanders is his hero.

Sir John A. MacDonald is my hero.

Quote from: T Hunt on February 21, 2023, 05:12:16 PMThats not something you can agree or disagree on, its based on objective facts, like history.

A sources credibility is determined by their reputation which is determined by their history of lying or telling the truth.
To claim epoch times is not credible you would have to show us a time or two where they lied....

It is their partisanship that detracts from their credibility. Like CNN or Fox, they seem to put ideology ahead of objectivity.
What I don't understand is if the left is so terrible, why do some of its critics support a bolshevik like President Putin. He governs in the same way as Khrushchev and Brezhnev.

Quote from: Tory Potter on February 23, 2023, 01:08:44 PMSir John A. MacDonald is my hero.

It is their partisanship that detracts from their credibility. Like CNN or Fox, they seem to put ideology ahead of objectivity.
What I don't understand is if the left is so terrible, why do some of its critics support a bolshevik like President Putin. He governs in the same way as Khrushchev and Brezhnev.

How so?

Quote from: taxed on February 23, 2023, 01:21:04 PMHow so?

Bad things are beginning to happen to people who critisize President Putin. Boris Nemtsov was shot to death while crossing a bridge in Moscow in 2015. Alexei Navalny is in prison after being poisoned with novichok. Thousands of anti-war protestors have been imprisoned and  independent journalists are being silenced. Almost all independent news outlets have been forced to close for being critical of the President.
Now, I will be the first to say Navalny is probably no beacon of American style freedom, but from my own point of view,President Putin has systematically worked to rebuild the Soviet Union. If you support the freedom the American constitution gives to you, President Putin is not on your side.

Quote from: Tory Potter on February 23, 2023, 04:02:57 PMBad things are beginning to happen to people who critisize President Putin. Boris Nemtsov was shot to death while crossing a bridge in Moscow in 2015. Alexei Navalny is in prison after being poisoned with novichok. Thousands of anti-war protestors have been imprisoned and  independent journalists are being silenced. Almost all independent news outlets have been forced to close for being critical of the President.
Now, I will be the first to say Navalny is probably no beacon of American style freedom, but from my own point of view,President Putin has systematically worked to rebuild the Soviet Union. If you support the freedom the American constitution gives to you, President Putin is not on your side.

Have you taken the time to watch Ukraine on Fire and Revealing Ukraine?

Quote from: esbad63 on February 23, 2023, 04:57:31 PMHave you taken the time to watch Ukraine on Fire and Revealing Ukraine?

       
That's like pouring holy Water on a demon. He will do everything he can to avoid the Truth!

Quote from: esbad63 on February 23, 2023, 04:57:31 PMHave you taken the time to watch Ukraine on Fire and Revealing Ukraine?

Both films are the work of Oliver Stone, the scammer who brought us the spurious "JFK." If I want to read historical fiction, I'll read Bernard Cornwell, Pierre Burton or Michael Jecks. The film premiered in 2016, so how does it conclude President Zelenskyy was installed by a coup three years in the future?
You still have not addressed how President Putin has any right to invade a small independent neighbour after Russia guaranteed the Ukraine's sovereignty. You have not explained how President Obama had any influence on the election of President Zelenskyy. In post #11, I said,
"Coups generally involve violence, but President Zelenskyy's election was peaceful and without controversy. He defeated President Porochenko and Porochenko conceeded defeat amicably. Nobody in the Ukraine disputed the results. President Trump called President Zelenskyy to congratulate him on his win. Ref: TASS cited below.
https://tass.com/world/1054861
https://www.wionews.com/world/ukraine-election-poroshenko-concedes-defeat-congratulates-zelensky-212435
"Ukraine's outgoing leader Petro Poroshenko conceded defeat in Sunday's presidential election and congratulated comedian Volodymyr Zelensky on his landslide victory.
Poroshenko said the results were "clear" and a reason to "call my opponent and congratulate him", after exit polls showed the performer taking 73 per cent of the vote." Wion News Agency."
If TASS and President Trump say the election of President Zelenskyy was free and fair, what is your source to say he was installed in a coup, somehow engineered by (former) President Obama?

Quote from: Tory Potter on February 23, 2023, 01:08:44 PMSir John A. MacDonald is my hero.

It is their partisanship that detracts from their credibility. Like CNN or Fox, they seem to put ideology ahead of objectivity.

But see, that is another claim that will require some evidence or examples to back up. In what way have they put ideology ahead of objectivity the way the Associated Press and the MSM have?

QuoteWhat I don't understand is if the left is so terrible, why do some of its critics support a bolshevik like President Putin. He governs in the same way as Khrushchev and Brezhnev.

Because the cold war is over. And because zelisky is ruling far more like a dictator than putin is. Besides, being against ukraine isnt being pro putin.
I mean, how leftist can putin be if he is standing up to the NWO?

Quote from: Tory Potter on February 24, 2023, 07:00:36 AMBoth films are the work of Oliver Stone, the scammer who brought us the spurious "JFK." If I want to read historical fiction, I'll read Bernard Cornwell, Pierre Burton or Michael Jecks. The film premiered in 2016, so how does it conclude President Zelenskyy was installed by a coup three years in the future?
You still have not addressed how President Putin has any right to invade a small independent neighbour after Russia guaranteed the Ukraine's sovereignty. You have not explained how President Obama had any influence on the election of President Zelenskyy. In post #11, I said,
"Coups generally involve violence, but President Zelenskyy's election was peaceful and without controversy. He defeated President Porochenko and Porochenko conceeded defeat amicably. Nobody in the Ukraine disputed the results. President Trump called President Zelenskyy to congratulate him on his win. Ref: TASS cited below.
https://tass.com/world/1054861
https://www.wionews.com/world/ukraine-election-poroshenko-concedes-defeat-congratulates-zelensky-212435
"Ukraine's outgoing leader Petro Poroshenko conceded defeat in Sunday's presidential election and congratulated comedian Volodymyr Zelensky on his landslide victory.
Poroshenko said the results were "clear" and a reason to "call my opponent and congratulate him", after exit polls showed the performer taking 73 per cent of the vote." Wion News Agency."
If TASS and President Trump say the election of President Zelenskyy was free and fair, what is your source to say he was installed in a coup, somehow engineered by (former) President Obama?

If that's the bull shit you believe, then watch it and get back to us and tell us all the lies you found.
We'll be waiting.

Quote from: Solar on February 24, 2023, 07:50:38 AMIf that's the bull shit you believe, then watch it and get back to us and tell us all the lies you found.
We'll be waiting.

I have not been able to find a copy of either film in either the public or university libraries, so I am relying on reviews from the internet, which is problematic in itself.
It is more the omissions than lies. The author has cherry-picked the history leading up to the Maidan revolution.The facts he mentioned are part of the hisorical record but he did not mention the holodomor or its lasting impact on Ukrainians' attitude towards Russia. When President Yanukovich decided to turn to Russia, the people of the Ukraine rose up against him. How ever, that had nothing to do with President Zelenskyy. President Yanukovich fled the country and a new President (Turchynov) took over. He was defeated by President Porochenko in a free and fair election, and then at the end of that term, President Zelenskyy defeated Porochenko in what everyone, including TASS, Porochenko and President Trump (cited above in posts #  11 and 39), proclaimed was a free and fair election. I cited TASS because it is not part of what you refer to as the MSM.
It does not excuse President Putin's unprovoked attack. The Ukraine is no more a threat to Russia than Canada is to the US. If Ukraine decides to establish trade and defence treaties with other nations, that is none of Russia's business. If the Ukrainian people decided to elect MacKenzie King's ghost as president, that is none of Russia's business. Russia and the US guaranteed the Ukraine's independence with borders agreed to by all three parties. Russia betrayed their pledge while the United States is fulfilling their pledge. I am familiar with the allegations against Hunter Biden. They were detailed in Woodward and Costa's book Peril. How the Ukrainians conduct their affairs with Americans is no business of Russia's. Just as the corruption of President Putin is none of Zelenskyy's business.
The film says the CIA were active in the Maidan revolution.You can be certain the GRU was also active as well.
The skinny on this issue comes down to the President of Russia's decision to attack the Ukraine without provocation, has resulted, so far, in the deaths of thousands of Ukrainians and Russians. What possible reason could justify such a tragic adventure?

FUCK UKRAINE

Quote from: Tory Potter on February 24, 2023, 01:08:43 PMI have not been able to find a copy of either film in either the public or university libraries, so I am relying on reviews from the internet, which is problematic in itself.
It is more the omissions than lies. The author has cherry-picked the history leading up to the Maidan revolution.The facts he mentioned are part of the hisorical record but he did not mention the holodomor or its lasting impact on Ukrainians' attitude towards Russia. When President Yanukovich decided to turn to Russia, the people of the Ukraine rose up against him. How ever, that had nothing to do with President Zelenskyy. President Yanukovich fled the country and a new President (Turchynov) took over. He was defeated by President Porochenko in a free and fair election, and then at the end of that term, President Zelenskyy defeated Porochenko in what everyone, including TASS, Porochenko and President Trump (cited above in posts #  11 and 39), proclaimed was a free and fair election. I cited TASS because it is not part of what you refer to as the MSM.
It does not excuse President Putin's unprovoked attack. The Ukraine is no more a threat to Russia than Canada is to the US. If Ukraine decides to establish trade and defence treaties with other nations, that is none of Russia's business. If the Ukrainian people decided to elect MacKenzie King's ghost as president, that is none of Russia's business. Russia and the US guaranteed the Ukraine's independence with borders agreed to by all three parties. Russia betrayed their pledge while the United States is fulfilling their pledge. I am familiar with the allegations against Hunter Biden. They were detailed in Woodward and Costa's book Peril. How the Ukrainians conduct their affairs with Americans is no business of Russia's. Just as the corruption of President Putin is none of Zelenskyy's business.
The film says the CIA were active in the Maidan revolution.You can be certain the GRU was also active as well.
The skinny on this issue comes down to the President of Russia's decision to attack the Ukraine without provocation, has resulted, so far, in the deaths of thousands of Ukrainians and Russians. What possible reason could justify such a tragic adventure?

Took me all of 2 seconds to pull it up. Watch it Right here. Enjoy...

https://rumble.com/embed/vubrga/?pub=4