Quote from: ZenMode on December 16, 2022, 06:59:04 AMIt's not only the Left.  There are plenty on the right who support equality for gay couples.  As recently as 200-300 years ago, the view of "voter" was only white, male land owners. That has changed also and its a good thing. America, at least for most people, has a spirit of equality for all people, though you, T Hunt, etc clearly do not. 

If it wasn't for strawmen and moving the goalposts you really would have nothing to say. God gave us the definition for marriage, it was the left that felt they had a duty to over ride it. Your whole argument has been summed up in a couple of posts where you slipped by how you really think, Christians are to blame and they need to be kept quite. All the rest that you post has been B.S.

Quote from: Possum on December 16, 2022, 07:06:24 AMIf it wasn't for strawmen and moving the goalposts you really would have nothing to say. God gave us the definition for marriage, it was the left that felt they had a duty to over ride it. Your whole argument has been summed up in a couple of posts where you slipped by how you really think, Christians are to blame and they need to be kept quite. All the rest that you post has been B.S.

The government has a responsibility to equality and non-discrimination, not to doing the work of your, or any, god. 

Yes, it has been primarily Christians, on the Left and Right, who have fought to deny equality to gays. Remember Bill Clinton signing the Defense of Marriage Act allowing states to not recognize other state's same sex marriages.  Remember Obama saying he opposed same sex marriage "as a Christian" during his 2008 campaign speech?

Quote from: ZenMode on December 15, 2022, 02:55:32 PMYou want to use the Constitution to force everyone to meet the Christian standards of marriage in order to have their relationship legally recognize. If I recall correctly, you also want to force anyone that wants to start a family to meet the requirements of Christian marriage. Your train of thought is disturbing to say the least.

But you agree that its NOT unconstitutional. Thank you. Your feelings are irrelevant. Grow up.

Quote from: ZenMode on December 16, 2022, 06:59:04 AMIt's not only the Left.  There are plenty on the right who support equality for gay couples.  As recently as 200-300 years ago, the view of "voter" was only white, male land owners. That has changed also and its a good thing. America, at least for most people, has a spirit of equality for all people, though you, T Hunt, etc clearly do not. 

But you are forgetting that gays have the exact same right to have normal marriage and normal family as everyone else. Its already equal, its always been equal. You are the one that wants to give special treatment to one small group. Yours is the position of inequality, while ours is equal.

Quote from: Possum on December 16, 2022, 07:06:24 AMIf it wasn't for strawmen and moving the goalposts you really would have nothing to say. God gave us the definition for marriage, it was the left that felt they had a duty to over ride it. Your whole argument has been summed up in a couple of posts where you slipped by how you really think, Christians are to blame and they need to be kept quite. All the rest that you post has been B.S.

Right, when you boil this down he is just an atheist who blames all of societies ills on Christians. He doenst come from a place of logic but of emotion. He hates religion and western culture.

He doesnt recognize that atheism as an ideology has killed far people more than Christianity ever did.

Quote from: ZenMode on December 16, 2022, 07:22:37 AMThe government has a responsibility to equality and non-discrimination, not to doing the work of your, or any, god.

Can you show me where equality and non discrimination are in the constitution? 

QuoteYes, it has been primarily Christians, on the Left and Right, who have fought to deny equality to gays.

You already have equal access to normal marriage, just like everyone. Dont lie and say gays dont have equality.

And you still havent answered, why do you discriminate against pedophiles and cousins marrying? You dont seem to want equality for them, hypocrite.

Quote from: T Hunt on December 16, 2022, 07:45:53 AMBut you agree that its NOT unconstitutional. Thank you. Your feelings are irrelevant. Grow up.

U.S. Constitution
The Fifth Amendment's Due Process Clause requires the United States government to practice equal protection. The Fourteenth Amendment's Equal Protection Clause requires states to practice equal protection.

Equal protection forces a state to govern impartially—not draw distinctions between individuals solely on differences that are irrelevant to a legitimate governmental objective. Thus, the equal protection clause is crucial to the protection of civil rights.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/equal_protection

Quote from: T Hunt on December 16, 2022, 07:48:14 AMBut you are forgetting that gays have the exact same right to have normal marriage and normal family as everyone else. Its already equal, its always been equal. You are the one that wants to give special treatment to one small group. Yours is the position of inequality, while ours is equal.

"But you are forgetting that gays have the exact same right to have normal marriage and normal family as everyone else."

lol....

Quote from: T Hunt on December 16, 2022, 07:52:58 AMCan you show me where equality and non discrimination are in the constitution?

U.S. Constitution
The Fifth Amendment's Due Process Clause requires the United States government to practice equal protection. The Fourteenth Amendment's Equal Protection Clause requires states to practice equal protection.

Equal protection forces a state to govern impartially—not draw distinctions between individuals solely on differences that are irrelevant to a legitimate governmental objective. Thus, the equal protection clause is crucial to the protection of civil rights.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/equal_protection

QuoteYou already have equal access to normal marriage, just like everyone. Dont lie and say gays dont have equality.

again... lol.

QuoteAnd you still havent answered, why do you discriminate against pedophiles and cousins marrying? You dont seem to want equality for them, hypocrite.

I actually have discussed both.  Society has determined that children/minors aren't able to consent to sex, marriage (with a few exceptions) or enter into legal contracts and has, therefore, made it illegal.  There are genetic risks with cousins and closer having kids.  You have the same issue with dog breeders when the mother/father are too close.

Quote from: ZenMode on December 16, 2022, 08:29:18 AMU.S. Constitution
The Fifth Amendment's Due Process Clause requires the United States government to practice equal protection. The Fourteenth Amendment's Equal Protection Clause requires states to practice equal protection.

Equal protection forces a state to govern impartially—not draw distinctions between individuals solely on differences that are irrelevant to a legitimate governmental objective. Thus, the equal protection clause is crucial to the protection of civil rights.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/equal_protection

No not someone opinion of it, I am asking where IN THE CONTITUION are the words EQUALITY or DISCRIMINATION. In the constitution anywhere???

Quote from: ZenMode on December 16, 2022, 08:31:22 AM"But you are forgetting that gays have the exact same right to have normal marriage and normal family as everyone else."

lol....

Ah so no counter? Cool, thanks for agreeing. Gays already have equal access to normal marriage under the law so your entire proposal is moot. Equality achieved.

Quote from: ZenMode on December 16, 2022, 08:41:58 AMI actually have discussed both.  Society has determined that children/minors aren't able to consent to sex, marriage (with a few exceptions) or enter into legal contracts and has, therefore, made it illegal.

But why are YOU making it illegal. How are YOU separating it from being gay or trans? Why are you discriminating against them? Why arent you allowing the children to consent? Thats discrimination, even if there is a reason. Thats just what you accuse us of doing to gays hypocrite.

QuoteThere are genetic risks with cousins and closer having kids.  You have the same issue with dog breeders when the mother/father are too close.

So if the risk of physical harm is the standard then being gay and trans would also be illegal under your standard. Thank you.

I'm moving this to conspiracy since it's pretty much a distraction from important issue taking place in the world.
This subject has already been settled, the left just wants it as a distraction from all the damage they're doing to the Nation, so it's a moot point!

Time to move on...

Make that the Nuthouse, more fitting for sexual deviates.

Quote from: ZenMode on December 16, 2022, 07:22:37 AMThe government has a responsibility to equality and non-discrimination, not to doing the work of your, or any, god. 

Yes, it has been primarily Christians, on the Left and Right, who have fought to deny equality to gays. Remember Bill Clinton signing the Defense of Marriage Act allowing states to not recognize other state's same sex marriages.  Remember Obama saying he opposed same sex marriage "as a Christian" during his 2008 campaign speech?

Denying equality is banning gays from restaurants, from businesses, something WHICH YOU HAVE STATED SEVERAL TIMES IS THE RIGHT OF THE BUSINESS OWNER, which proves you approve of denying equality. What you are trying to say is denying equality is when the definition says a man and a woman and we don't change it to allow two men. That is not denying equality. Is it denying equality when you tell a man he can not swim on the woman's swimming team? You are talking out of both sides of your mouth all while trying to blame the right and Christians for a problem the left liberals in the country created. Leaving a definition as it states is not denying equality.

Quote from: Possum on December 16, 2022, 09:34:26 AMDenying equality is banning gays from restaurants, from businesses, something WHICH YOU HAVE STATED SEVERAL TIMES IS THE RIGHT OF THE BUSINESS OWNER, which proves you approve of denying equality. What you are trying to say is denying equality is when the definition says a man and a woman and we don't change it to allow two men. That is not denying equality. Is it denying equality when you tell a man he can not swim on the woman's swimming team? You are talking out of both sides of your mouth all while trying to blame the right and Christians for a problem the left liberals in the country created. Leaving a definition as it states is not denying equality.

Hes totally cool with discrimination, so long as he gets to decide who is discriminated against.