Quote from: T Hunt on December 16, 2022, 08:47:59 AMNo not someone opinion of it, I am asking where IN THE CONTITUION are the words EQUALITY or DISCRIMINATION. In the constitution anywhere???

It's in the Constitution as 'Equal Protection'.

Quote from: ZenMode on December 16, 2022, 10:18:30 AMIt's in the Constitution as 'Equal Protection'.

Where is that in the constitution? Why wont you quote the constitution directly?

Quote from: Possum on December 16, 2022, 09:34:26 AMDenying equality is banning gays from restaurants, from businesses, something WHICH YOU HAVE STATED SEVERAL TIMES IS THE RIGHT OF THE BUSINESS OWNER, which proves you approve of denying equality.  What you are trying to say is denying equality is when the definition says a man and a woman and we don't change it to allow two men. That is not denying equality. Is it denying equality when you tell a man he can not swim on the woman's swimming team? You are talking out of both sides of your mouth all while trying to blame the right and Christians for a problem the left liberals in the country created. Leaving a definition as it states is not denying equality.

I'm distinguishing between public (government) and private.  The government shouldn't be able to force you to let someone into your private home.  The same is true for a private business.  Government doesn't have the same luxury.  It can't deny you a driver's license because you're female or Chinese.  It can't deny you a legally recognized relationship because you're fat, Jewish or old.  It also should not be permitted to deny you marriage because you and your partner are the same sex.

Quote from: T Hunt on December 16, 2022, 10:22:29 AMWhere is that in the constitution? Why wont you quote the constitution directly?

Because it won't matter.  You'll only move the goalposts or escalate the hyperbole.  You see exactly what you want to see.

Quote from: ZenMode on December 16, 2022, 10:23:16 AMI'm distinguishing between public (government) and private. It can't deny you a legally recognized relationship because you're fat, Jewish or old.

You mean a normal marriage. Right no one is denied the right to normal marriage for any reason, except maybe those in jail. I think even vegetables on life support can get married, tho I would have to check into that to be sure.

You seem to be trying to create something from nothing and then give a very small group a special privilege no one else gets.

QuoteIt also should not be permitted to deny you marriage because you and your partner are the same sex.

They are each permitted to have a normal marriage with someone else just like everyone else is. Just like cousins are. Or siblings. Or a father and his daughter. No one is denying anything to anyone. Equality achieved.

You on the other hand seem to be discriminating against pedophiles and incest, without a moral reason to do so...

Quote from: ZenMode on December 16, 2022, 10:24:11 AMBecause it won't matter.  You'll only move the goalposts or escalate the hyperbole.  You see exactly what you want to see.

Youre projecting yourself onto me again as a means of deflection.

But thanks for pointing out that the words EQUALITY and DISCRIMINATION are not in the constitution.

Quote from: T Hunt on December 16, 2022, 10:30:39 AMYou mean a normal marriage. Right no one is denied the right to normal marriage for any reason, except maybe those in jail. I think even vegetables on life support can get married, tho I would have to check into that to be sure.

You seem to be trying to create something from nothing and then give a very small group a special privilege no one else gets.

Nothing is being created.  States have been legally recognizing relationships for years.... as the Christian god views them.  Luckily, there are enough Christians (my wife for example) who recognize that it's not ok to deny gays the same recognition any more than it would be ok to deny a gay a drivers license or a gay couple from buying a home together, register a car together, etc.

QuoteThey are each permitted to have a normal marriage with someone else just like everyone else is. Just like cousins are. Or siblings. Or a father and his daughter. No one is denying anything to anyone. Equality achieved.

Again, that's not how America is supposed to work.  Equal protection, like free speech, doesn't have to subscribe to the Christian opinion of normal.  We don't have to agree with what someone says, but we should all agree that their right to say it is protected.  Gays have the same right to equal protection for a legally recognized relationship by the government.

QuoteYou on the other hand seem to be discriminating against pedophiles and incest, without a moral reason to do so...

No right is absolute.

Quote from: T Hunt on December 16, 2022, 10:31:34 AMYoure projecting yourself onto me again as a means of deflection.

But thanks for pointing out that the words EQUALITY and DISCRIMINATION are not in the constitution.

Great.  Where is "marriage" in the Constitution?

In the end, this comes down to one thing.  Christians, and probably Muslims, want to make their beliefs everyone's beliefs.  They aren't, as has already been demonstrated here, content to literally own marriage.  They want to use government to force their view of marriage on everyone.

Pretty twisted view of what it means to be American.

Quote from: ZenMode on December 16, 2022, 10:42:49 AMGreat.  Where is "marriage" in the Constitution?

Its not, its in state constitutions where the federal constitution puts all moral issues. 

Quote from: ZenMode on December 16, 2022, 10:42:12 AMNothing is being created.  States have been legally recognizing relationships for years.... as the Christian god views them.  Luckily, there are enough Christians (my wife for example) who recognize that it's not ok to deny gays the same recognition any more than it would be ok to deny a gay a drivers license or a gay couple from buying a home together, register a car together, etc.

But we arent denying anything to gays. They can get the same kind of marriage license we all can get. They just cant force a redefinition of words and make a special privilege that only applies to them.
They already have equality so whats the problem here?

QuoteAgain, that's not how America is supposed to work.  Equal protection, like free speech, doesn't have to subscribe to the Christian opinion of normal.

You mean the traditional opinion held by all major civilizations and religions for all of human history?

QuoteWe don't have to agree with what someone says, but we should all agree that their right to say it is protected.  Gays have the same right to equal protection for a legally recognized relationship by the government.

Gays do have the same right to a legally recognized traditional marriage already. What are you asking for?

QuoteNo right is absolute.

Oh, so youre ok with discrimination then. How libertarian of you.

Quote from: ZenMode on December 16, 2022, 10:23:16 AMI'm distinguishing between public (government) and private.  The government shouldn't be able to force you to let someone into your private home.  The same is true for a private business.  Government doesn't have the same luxury.  It can't deny you a driver's license because you're female or Chinese.  It can't deny you a legally recognized relationship because you're fat, Jewish or old.  It also should not be permitted to deny you marriage because you and your partner are the same sex.

You sure make a habit of being wrong. The government AND THE COURTS, have said a business owner can not discriminate due to age, color, sexual. If you are in the business of selling cakes you must sell to everyone. That is the law! However, no one can make you do anything against your beliefs. So if you are a black owner selling cakes, NO ONE can force you to make a cake with KKK on the top of it.
What you are claiming, again, is that by NOT CHANGING THE DEFINITION OF MARRIAGE, CHRISTIANS ARE DISCRIMINATING. FALSE. PERIOD. Put it this way, if you are allowed to change the definition of marriage, what else can you change about religious beliefs? Do you see yourself as entitled to rewrite the 10 commandments also? You have a habit of misquoting the constitution, do you not see that where it says "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;" means that the government can not rewrite the laws of the church?

When a man is told he can not be on the woman's soccer team, that is not discrimination, that is following the rules. You do not know the difference.

 

Quote from: T Hunt on December 16, 2022, 09:56:43 AMHes totally cool with discrimination, so long as he gets to decide who is discriminated against.

That has been his whole argument. He's let it slip in a couple of posts, but basically he wants to see the laws, commandments, and the rules of the church changed to what suits him. Discrimination he has no problem with.

Quote from: ZenMode on December 16, 2022, 10:42:12 AMNo right is absolute.

Actually the ones listed in the bill of Rights are "Absolute", they are granted and guaranteed by God.
But now that T hunt brought it up and you denied it, why don't you show us how this special right you claim exists, is listed in the Constitution.

We really do want you to explain how a sexual perversion is given special privilege under our God given Rights societal contract.

Now don't take too long, we all want to see once and for all, you, prove your case, because to be honest, your little experiment in distraction is wearing out quickly.

Quote from: Solar on December 17, 2022, 05:24:34 AMActually the ones listed in the bill of Rights are "Absolute", they are granted and guaranteed by God.

And yet there are plenty of laws, necessarily so, limiting free speech.

QuoteBut now that T hunt brought it up and you denied it, why don't you show us how this special right you claim exists, is listed in the Constitution.

We really do want you to explain how a sexual perversion is given special privilege under our God given Rights societal contract.

Now don't take too long, we all want to see once and for all, you, prove your case, because to be honest, your little experiment in distraction is wearing out quickly.

It was already clarified earlier.  The constitution requires equal protection by the government. For almost entire existence of our country, interracial marriages were illegal. It takes awhile, but eventually society gets it right, as is the case with same sex marriage or, as is actually, not forcing all Americans to operate under the rules of the Christian god.