Quote from: T Hunt on December 09, 2022, 12:01:26 PMWhy would ANY of that matter?
Projection. In fact it is YOU wanting the govt to come in and force people to accept mental disorders as normal by accepting homosexual marriage.

Remember, the govt allowing gay marriage is actually the govt getting MORE involved. The libertarian position is for the govt to stay out of marriage and leave it the way its always been, to leave it to the states where the constitution puts it.

it's this simple: as long as the government is involved in marriage, they cannot legally discriminate. People who support freedom, life and liberty should support two consenting adults being able to enter into a legal contract, just as they are able in EVERY other facet of life.

Quote from: ZenMode on December 09, 2022, 12:05:12 PMit's this simple: as long as the government is involved in marriage, they cannot legally discriminate.

But you are lying. You have yet to prove how denying Gays marriage is discrimination in any way shape or form.
You need to show an example of where a mental disorder is normalized under law. Until you can do that you dont have a leg to stand on.

The discrimination laws you keep referring to dont mention anything about the mental disorder of being homosexual. There is no law that stops the state from treating mental illness as such.

QuotePeople who support freedom, life and liberty should support two consenting adults being able to enter into a legal contract, just as they are able in EVERY other facet of life.

We do allow normal mentally healthy adults to entre contracts. But we are talking about marriage here, not contract.
Marriage is far far more than just a contract so thats not applicable in this situation. We as a nation have always accepted that it is a gift from God for good social wellbeing. We have also always accepted the science surrounding mental disorders.

Quote from: ZenMode on December 09, 2022, 11:47:32 AMAre you going to have the state confirm that each couple has children to maintain their marriage?  Should we give fertility tests before the state grants a marriage license? Can divorced men, who have had a vasectomy, be disallowed from remarrying?

You seem to want to give the government a LOT of oversight into the lives of people!

What part of the First Amendment do you not get?

Quote from: ZenMode on December 09, 2022, 12:05:12 PMit's this simple: as long as the government is involved in marriage, they cannot legally discriminate. People who support freedom, life and liberty should support two consenting adults being able to enter into a legal contract, just as they are able in EVERY other facet of life.

This should be a good lesson for you. When Govt got involved in marriage, as in tax breaks for married couples, many screamed it was unconstitutional, that the Fed should not be creating tax laws based on marriage.
This was the slippery slope we've been warning about for decades, but since people only saw it as a tax refund, they stopped complaining. Money talks, and the Fed kept growing...

It's still a states Rights issue, as in a county recorder issue, maintaining records as afforded in the Constitution.

Quote from: ZenMode on December 09, 2022, 07:08:03 AMI have my beliefs.  Some of them align with the Left. Some align with the Right. I don't adjust my beliefs to fit neatly into a political party. 
I don't know how "early" you're referring to, but some things that scare me from early america is the blatant misogyny, homophobia and racism.

Has anybody on this forum claimed they are republican?

Quote from: Possum on December 09, 2022, 02:30:09 PMHas anybody on this forum claimed they are republican?

         

I only know of one. Not good odds when trying to bash a group.

Quote from: ZenMode on December 09, 2022, 11:47:32 AMAre you going to have the state confirm that each couple has children to maintain their marriage?  Should we give fertility tests before the state grants a marriage license? Can divorced men, who have had a vasectomy, be disallowed from remarrying?

You seem to want to give the government a LOT of oversight into the lives of people!

Through history, marriage has always been between a man and a woman, it had always been a religious ceremony.  What has changed that we now need to redefine what marriage is? How exactly is society going to benefit from allowing two men to become married? If they want to live together, fine, keep it to yourself. Want to have a say so in your partners affairs, get power of attorney. But to say there is a right?? Show the history.

Quote from: Solar on December 09, 2022, 02:32:32 PM         

I only know of one. Not good odds when trying to bash a group.

I do think that is where some of his misguided beliefs are coming from. He can only see in a two party system, and since we do not agree with him, we must be republican.   

Quote from: Solar on December 09, 2022, 12:40:50 PMWhat part of the First Amendment do you not get?

From the answers I have seen from him, he does not get any of it. Don't think he understands the constitution either.

Quote from: Possum on December 09, 2022, 02:30:09 PMHas anybody on this forum claimed they are republican?

Right. The left loves to conveniently ignore the fact that conservatives have been calling out the RINOs for years.

Yes both parties are corrupt, but the right has tried and is succeeding in reigning in the GOP while the left just handed the dems over to the globalists. I suppose the bernie bros did come over to MAGA, but they were not loved by the dems.

Quote from: Possum on December 09, 2022, 02:40:26 PMI do think that is where some of his misguided beliefs are coming from. He can only see in a two party system, and since we do not agree with him, we must be republican.   

Sad that people still fall for the belief that the GOP actually represents the base of the party. They do not!
The only reason people vote Pub is in hopes of getting more actual Conservatives into the party before they go over the edge into full blown NWO territory.

This nation is out of options, we either steal the GOP or we go into rebellion.
One thing that hasn't been mentioned is a refusal to accept the Fed, ignore whatever they dictate, and go about our lives.
Stop paying taxes, full on revolt, but it will take all of us in lockstep, all the way to airport security.
If all of us simply say no more, there isn't a single thing the govt can do.

Quote from: T Hunt on December 09, 2022, 02:52:46 PMRight. The left loves to conveniently ignore the fact that conservatives have been calling out the RINOs for years.

Yes both parties are corrupt, but the right has tried and is succeeding in reigning in the GOP while the left just handed the dems over to the globalists. I suppose the bernie bros did come over to MAGA, but they were not loved by the dems.

How can anyone read what is posted on this forum and not see that?    It has been stated over and over we can not stand the rinos, we despise what they do more than the democrats.  I understand how Zen could miss that, but the others?     

Quote from: Solar on December 09, 2022, 02:59:02 PMSad that people still fall for the belief that the GOP actually represents the base of the party. They do not!
The only reason people vote Pub is in hopes of getting more actual Conservatives into the party before they go over the edge into full blown NWO territory.

This nation is out of options, we either steal the GOP or we go into rebellion.
One thing that hasn't been mentioned is a refusal to accept the Fed, ignore whatever they dictate, and go about our lives.
Stop paying taxes, full on revolt, but it will take all of us in lockstep, all the way to airport security.
If all of us simply say no more, there isn't a single thing the govt can do.

This right here is what I think Trump and Q are building up too. I think they will let the left steal 2024 and then right afterwards this will happen. The people will be at the precipice and will decide no more. People will simply all ignore the false govt and will stop paying taxes.

I hope we see something like this on the state level if hobbes cheats lake out of AZ.

Quote from: Possum on December 09, 2022, 02:59:20 PMHow can anyone read what is posted on this forum and not see that?    It has been stated over and over we can not stand the rinos, we despise what they do more than the democrats. I understand how Zen could miss that, but the others?     

Willful ignorance at its finest. They need for the lies to persist, that is their only hope and tactic.

Quote from: Possum on December 09, 2022, 02:42:11 PMFrom the answers I have seen from him, he does not get any of it. Don't think he understands the constitution either.

Yep, one of the reasons the left started calling it a "Living Breathing Document" (Hillary Clinton).
They wanted to convince people the Constitution was pliable and since they want everyone to believe we're a democracy, that the Mob has a say, and if the DNC does anything unconstitutional, so be it.

This is why these kids don't see why we're so steadfast in our belief in our Founding and why we're willing to kill and die to protect it for future generations.
I didn't serve in war time so some snot nosed kid can trash our Nation!