Quote from: Tory Potter on September 14, 2022, 11:44:49 AMRather than re- litigate Mr. Wylie's service to President Trump, let's get back to the thread.
I will venture to say nobody can say for sure who is winning the invasion, but the Ukrainians are clearly winning the propoganda war in the west.

Yes we can. Russia has been and is winning. It's not even a question.

Quote from: Tory Potter on September 14, 2022, 04:54:49 PMI was referring to President Biden. I interpreted the quotation from C-Span to state President Biden got a Unkrainian prosecutor fired. That could qualify as an impeachable offence.
I wasn't suggesting President Putin be impeached.

Why wasn't Trudeau kicked out for SLC-Lavalin?  It's odd that you think the people are in control in your country, or Ukraine.  We're clawing back, but you guys are just too far gone.

Quote from: Tory Potter on September 14, 2022, 04:54:49 PMI was referring to President Biden. I interpreted the quotation from C-Span to state President Biden got a Unkrainian prosecutor fired. That could qualify as an impeachable offence.
I wasn't suggesting President Putin be impeached.

Corrected it for you.
Friendly reminder, Biden isnt the president. He is on video cheating.

Quote from: Solar on September 15, 2022, 04:52:10 AMThing is, it's a threat to his entire world view. Can you imagine learning that everything you ever believed in has been a lie?
That's where every liberal stands today, discovering they were nothing more than gullible tools as those they believed, are actually their enslavers.

You won't get any arguement from me about the interference of US governments in the elections of other countries. While I haven't seen any evidence of President Obama's participation in influencing the Ukrainian election, it would not surprise me that US politicians would have done so. We have examples such as Rep. Charles Wilson's (R) activity to intervene in Afghanistan, McGeorge Bundy's efforts to overthrow the government of the Dominican Republic, President Truman's agents delivering suitcases full of money to Willi Brandt, and President Kennedy's use of the CIA and the mafia to topple the conservative government of Canada and get the Liberals under Pearson elected, because Prime Minister Diefenbaker refused to arm the Canadian Armed Forces with nuclear weapons.
So, if the Democrats helped Zelenskyy beat Poroshenko, I am not surprised. Zelenskyy was going to win anyway, so I hope they didn't invest too much money into it.
BTW, we now have a new Conservative party leader who won the leadership by an incredible margin. Did the DNC have anything to do with that? 

Quote from: taxed on September 15, 2022, 06:00:39 AMNo doubt. If things get REALLY tough, he can always kick out the Russians to whom he's renting and move in (even though he made it illegal for Ukrainians to do biz with Russians).
He almost was. He only came back with a minority government because the Tory leader was pretty lame. We have a new Tory leader now.
https://www.rt.com/russia/561929-zelensky-italy-villa-russians/

Back to President Putin, his close friends in the oligarchy are falling out of tall buildings, falling off their boats or, the latest, dying of a stroke during a picnic. Is somebody trying to send a message?
The Russian army still has over 10,500 tanks. If I were a betting man, I would not be putting any money on Ukraine.

Quote from: Tory Potter on September 15, 2022, 12:41:17 PMBack to President Putin, his close friends in the oligarchy are falling out of tall buildings, falling off their boats or, the latest, dying of a stroke during a picnic. Is somebody trying to send a message?

Sounds like Klinton.      

QuoteThe Russian army still has over 10,500 tanks. If I were a betting man, I would not be putting any money on Ukraine.

That's been my whole point all along, and Putin has Europe by the balls, assuming they still have any.

Quote from: Tory Potter on September 15, 2022, 12:28:56 PMYou won't get any arguement from me about the interference of US governments in the elections of other countries. While I haven't seen any evidence of President Obama's participation in influencing the Ukrainian election, it would not surprise me that US politicians would have done so. We have examples such as Rep. Charles Wilson's (R) activity to intervene in Afghanistan, McGeorge Bundy's efforts to overthrow the government of the Dominican Republic, President Truman's agents delivering suitcases full of money to Willi Brandt, and President Kennedy's use of the CIA and the mafia to topple the conservative government of Canada and get the Liberals under Pearson elected, because Prime Minister Diefenbaker refused to arm the Canadian Armed Forces with nuclear weapons.
So, if the Democrats helped Zelenskyy beat Poroshenko, I am not surprised. Zelenskyy was going to win anyway, so I hope they didn't invest too much money into it.
BTW, we now have a new Conservative party leader who won the leadership by an incredible margin. Did the DNC have anything to do with that? 

How is it you refuse to search for what is being claimed by our side?
Why ask us to prove the obvious? It's all out there, yet you make the false claim it's a threatening site?
Spectator doesn't bite. I assure you, in fact, they're less harmful that CSPAN.

https://spectator.org/obamas-meddling-in-foreign-elections-six-examples/

Call me paranoid. I am paranoid when it comes to clicking on any link. It is a habit I picked up from work. I shy away from doing any serious research on the internet. That is what libraries are for. The internet is for entertainment. I treat anything on the internet the same way I treat television. I am skeptical of all the claims and counter claims in politics and war in the same way I am doubtful Clark Kent can fly. Yes, I have seen video claims that Russia is winning, and that Jim Rockford can be knocked unconscious 20 times with no lasting effects of concussion or this or that happened in the Ukainian election, but the video or the links could be from the GRU. There are computer wizards who can create a video of Governor Abbott doing unpleasent things to a skunk and you cannot tell it's a fake.
So, maybe President Obama did something nefarious in the Ukraine but it will take something more than something on the internet to convince me. What can I say, I have always tried to keep an open mind and the litmus test for me is a ruling in court. Just as President Trump was acquitted in his trial in the Senate and is therefore innocent, so, for me everyone is presumed innocent UNLESS proven guilty in Court.It is the way I was trained. I've slipped up sometimes but that's where I am coming from.

Quote from: Tory Potter on September 15, 2022, 06:04:30 PMCall me paranoid. I am paranoid when it comes to clicking on any link. It is a habit I picked up from work. I shy away from doing any serious research on the internet. That is what libraries are for. The internet is for entertainment. I treat anything on the internet the same way I treat television. I am skeptical of all the claims and counter claims in politics and war in the same way I am doubtful Clark Kent can fly. Yes, I have seen video claims that Russia is winning, and that Jim Rockford can be knocked unconscious 20 times with no lasting effects of concussion or this or that happened in the Ukainian election, but the video or the links could be from the GRU. There are computer wizards who can create a video of Governor Abbott doing unpleasent things to a skunk and you cannot tell it's a fake.
So, maybe President Obama did something nefarious in the Ukraine but it will take something more than something on the internet to convince me. What can I say, I have always tried to keep an open mind and the litmus test for me is a ruling in court. Just as President Trump was acquitted in his trial in the Senate and is therefore innocent, so, for me everyone is presumed innocent UNLESS proven guilty in Court.It is the way I was trained. I've slipped up sometimes but that's where I am coming from.

Only a lib would find an excuse to not see the truth.
Here is the entire article, enjoy, and it was solely text. If I'm willing to click on it as are millions of other people and not suffer a single issue, then you can be assured, if I post a site, It's Fuckin Safe!!!
If this supposed paranoia continues, then you're going to be forced to find another forum, because you won't be posting here!


While the media obsess over an alleged Russian conspiracy to collude with Donald Trump to affect America's 2016 presidential election, what about Obama's interference in the elections of other countries? Most Americans have no idea that President Obama meddled in elections all over the world. And apparently, the media decided there's no reason for Americans to know about this illegal activity.

Indeed, in 2016, the Los Angeles Times did a story on how America has interfered with other nation's elections in the past, but they stopped short of mentioning the various foreign elections Obama tried to influence. But the same article reports that Obama "slapped Russia with new penalties for meddling in the U.S. Presidential election... by hacking into Democratic and Republican computer networks and selectively releasing emails." Hypocrisy check, anyone?

Since that article appeared last December, it has essentially become fake news. The Republican National Committee was never successfully hacked into and evidence is mounting that the DNC was not hacked by Russia. Not only has Wiki Leaks itself insisted Russia was not the source, but a number of cyber security experts, including McAfee antivirus developer John McAfee, disputes this. McAfee says the hack on the DNC "used a piece of malware a year and half old" and was "not an organized hack and certainly not a nation-state that did this." Moreover, the DNC has never allowed the FBI or any government agency to analyze the computers in question.

Nevertheless, Obama, operating on unconfirmed evidence, abruptly imposed new sanctions on Russia. Many observers believe he did so in order to set the stage for the left to initiate its phony Russian-Trump collusion narrative to be used to remove Trump from office or to defeat him in 2020.

Meddling in other's elections is a violation of international law. In 1965, the United Nations General Assembly reaffirmed this with a resolution stating: "No State has the right to intervene, directly or indirectly, for any reason whatever, in the internal [...] affairs of any other State." And the International Court of Justice also considers such intervention to be illegal. More importantly, U.S. law prohibits the use of tax dollars to influence foreign elections.

Nevertheless, the violation of both American and international law did not stop Obama from intervening repeatedly in the elections of other nations. Moreover, most of Obama's meddling was known by many foreign correspondents and if it was reported at all, it was downplayed. Most certainly, the media did not condemn it nor drop hints about impeaching Obama.

So let's get this straight. The media is hysterical about a flimsy conspiracy theory that Russia colluded with Trump to steal the 2016 election but was mostly silent about Obama's efforts to control the outcome of elections in at least six countries during his tenure. Media bias, anyone? Let's review the examples we know about:

Kenya

Investigative reporter Jerome Corsi of WorldNetDaily broke this story when he visited Kenya and was able to confirm that Obama, as a U.S. Senator, illegally used a taxpayer-financed trip to campaign for far-left presidential candidate Raila Odinga in Kenya's 2006 elections.

Odinga, according to the BBC, was distantly related to Obama and both families belonged to the Luo tribe. Indeed, both of their fathers served in the administration of Jomo Kenyatta in the 1960s. According to a document obtained by Corsi, Odinga promised Kenya's growing Islamic movement that if elected, he would "rewrite the constitution of Kenya to recognize Sharia as the only true law sanctioned by the Holy Quran for Muslim declared religions." The secret agreement also called for the creation of Muslim "madrassa classes," a crackdown on Christian evangelical events and gospel programs, and legal protections for Muslims suspected of terrorism, even international terrorism.

Obama's cheerleading for anti-American Odinga (who named his son after Fidel Castro) "was more than reckless," wrote former U.S. attorney Andrew McCarthy, "it was borderline criminal (and that's being generous)." McCarthy also said Obama's intervention was an "outrageous contravention of U.S. policy and, [referring to the Logan Act] probably, federal law."

By 2010, this tribal connection resulted in President Obama quietly transferring millions of U.S. tax dollars to Odinga's government, including $2 million to convince Kenyan voters to vote for a new constitution. According to the Becket Fund for Religious Liberty, the new constitution would force Kenyans to be "subjected to these [Islamic] tribunals merely by virtue of what religious community they were born into..." Some members of Congress actually called for an investigation but, typically, nothing ever came of it. By the end of 2010, hundreds of millions of dollars flowed to Kenya from a myriad of U.S. agencies such as USAID, all with the likely intent of boosting the popularity of the Odinga regime.

Israel

During Israel's 2015 elections, the Obama administration — led by Secretary of State John Kerry — illegally intervened when they attempted to defeat the reelection of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu by covertly funneling State Department grants to opposition groups. The Obama administration detested Netanyahu due to his refusal to cave into Palestinian demands, a group that even refused to recognize the existence of Israel.

Obama's State Department gave $350,000 to a group called the "One Voice Movement (OVM)," for supporting "peace negotiations between Israel and Palestine." However, the State Department then used leftover funds to organize an effort against Netanyahu's reelection. OVM contracted out a group called "V15," which in turned hired five campaign experts from the U.S., including Obama's field director from his last presidential campaign. As the Weekly Standard's Jim Swift wrote, "once the infrastructure was built, it was used in an attempt to topple the government of one of America's closest allies."

An investigation by the U.S. Senate found that the "State Department failed to adequately guard against the risk that resources built with government grants would be deployed for political purposes." As with most investigations of Obama scandals, emails documenting this illegal election activity were destroyed. And, as usual, no one was held accountable.

Macedonia

The government watchdog group, Judicial Watch, obtained government documents that "show the U.S. government has quietly spent millions of taxpayer dollars to destabilize the democratically elected, center-right government in Macedonia by colluding with leftwing, billionaire philanthropist George Soros." Indeed, Obama's ambassador to Macedonia, Jeff Baily, worked to funnel millions of dollars from the State Department and USAID to groups created by Soros which were, according to JW, working to overthrow the conservative government.

More details about this intervention were exposed by Victor Gaetan in a series of exposés in The American Spectator. Gaetan has confirmed that Soros, in conjuction with the Obama administration, "financed a left-wing agenda to divide the nation and bring a socialist-Muslim coalition to power." Incredibly, Obama's USAID "selected Soros' Foundation Open Society Macedonia (FOSM) to manage $2.5 million in taxpayers' dollars earmarked for oxymoronic 'democracy building,' an amount increased to $4.8 million two years later."

This funding was directed to a coalition of socialist groups that work in conjunction with the Social Democrat Union of Macedonia (SDSM), a socialist party with close ties to Soros. The intervention is, incredibly, still ongoing with the result being chaos and disruptive street demonstrations. Gaetan's investigative work also indicates that Obama's agencies intervened politically with a number of other Balkan counties, including Bosnia, Kosovo, Albania and Greece. It appears the Trump administration knows little about such interventions since many leftist Obama-appointed ambassadors continue to hold on to their positions. And USAID funds continue to pour into leftist political groups in the Balkans as if Trump never came to power. Indeed, as one Macedonia Member of Parliament quoted by Gaetan said, "Under Obama's ideological programs, it [USAID] became the super crack of the left."

Libya

In 2011, Obama and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, not only interfered politically in Libya but militarily as well, by orchestrating a series of policies designed to remove Muammar Gaddafi from power. While it would be a stretch to call Gaddafi a U.S. ally, he was cooperating with the U.S.A. in fighting Islamic extremists and had turned over all his WMDs to American officials. Western investment was flowing into Libya, the country was becoming more westernized and, most certainly, it was no longer a threat to the USA.

As NR wrote, "all that vanished when Hillary Clinton, Samantha Power, and Susan Rice ordered the bombings that turned Libya into a terrorist paradise." One explanation for the abrupt attack on Libya was that Gaddafi was a rival to the Saudis over the leadership of the Islamic faith and since the Saudis had contributed at least $10 million to the Clinton Foundation, Secretary Clinton had, as usual, a money motive to intervene in Libya.

The opposition to Gaddafi's regime was led by the Libyan Transitional National Council, whose leaders include many radical Muslims such as Abdel Hakim Belhaj. Belhaj also headed an al-Qaeda affiliate called the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG), which was designated a terrorist organization by the State Department.

Nevertheless, Obama spent at least $1 billion to fund a military operation to topple Gaddafi, with American soldiers actually fighting alongside jihadist-dominated rebel groups. Moreover, the Washington Times reported that the "CIA was providing covert assistance to elements of the Transitional National Council," again, a group dominated by radical jihadists. Under Obama, Libya was transformed from a moderate Islamic regime which posed no threat to the USA, to a violent wasteland dominated by various ISIS and al-Qaeda linked militias.

Honduras

Shortly after Obama was elected, leftist Honduran president Manual Zelaya attempted to illegally amend the Honduran Constitution so as to allow himself to serve as President longer than one term. Incredibly, Zelaya and a mob broke into a military installation where blank ballots were stored and tried to hold a constitutional referendum without the support of the election authorities. As a result, on orders from the Honduran Supreme Court, he was forcefully removed from office as Honduran law calls for.

Obama attacked Zelaya's removal, falsely calling it a "coup d'état" and a WikiLeaks cable revealed that Obama backed Zelaya's reinstatement in order to please Venezuelan dictator Hugo Chavez, who, like Fidel Castro, was an ally of Zelaya. Instead of supporting the right of Hondurans to remove their president for unconstitutional actions, Obama tried to pressure Honduras into reinstating Zelaya by freezing all non-humanitarian aid. That didn't happen and Zelaya went into exile.

Eventually, new elections were held and a new president elected, but there's little doubt that the Obama administration meddled in the Honduran political process in an effort to support the hard left in that country. Indeed, when Obama announced that he supported the return of Zelaya from exile, Congresswoman Ileana Ros-Lehtinen announced "Now that everything is in place for Zelaya's return, there are no more false reasons for the Obama administration to continue its pressure tactics against those in Honduras who opposed Zelaya's attacks on their country's constitution and the rule of law."

Egypt

Like Libya, the Obama administration encouraged opposition to President Hosni Mubarak and intervened in elections to ensure that a radical Muslim Brotherhood leader, Mohammed Morsi, was elected president. Obama's State Department even gave political training to MB leaders. Again, similar to Gadhafi, Mubarak was relatively secular and Egypt was becoming increasingly westernized. He was an ally of the U.S.A. and an opponent of radical jihadists.

And the Obama administration was open about its efforts. The Los Angeles Times reported that the "Obama administration said for the first time that it supports a role for groups such as the Muslim Brotherhood, a banned islamist organization..." The MB's mission statement states, "Jihad is our way. Dying in the way of Allah is our highest hope." Sounds like a group Obama would support. Indeed, one of the Egyptian MB leaders, Gehad el-Haddad, was actually on the Clinton Foundation payroll while working to help bring the MB to power. Once Morsi appeared to win what was likely a rigged election, Obama poured in $1.5 billion in foreign aid.

The Egyptian people were so upset with Obama's intervention, they forcefully removed Morsi and installed a pro-American moderate Muslim named Abdel Fattah al-Sisi as president. Morsi was then arrested by the Egyptian military for treason. But even after that, as reported by Western Journalism, Obama's "State Department hosts Muslim Brotherhood-aligned leaders" in order to "work against this world-be reformer's government."

So there you have it. Surprisingly, a group of Senators led by Mike Lee (R-Utah) has sent a letter to Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, demanding that he conduct a full scale investigation into the use of taxpayer funds to support leftist political movements around the world. As reported in the Washington Free Beacon, Senator Lee said the letter was written because "over the past few months, elected officials and political leaders of foreign nations have been coming to me with disappointing news and reports of U.S. activity in their respective countries" which included "diplomats playing political favorites, USAID funds supporting extreme and sometimes violent political activity, and the U.S. Government working to marginalize the moderates and conservatives in leadership roles."

On the House side, a group of Congressmen led by Republican Bob Goodlatte (R-VA), visited the Balkans last month to investigate such blatant political manipulation but have yet to report on their findings.

Tillerson needs to clean house and expedite the appointment of new Ambassadors before Obama holdovers do any further damage. At the very least, he should cut off all funds to foreign political groups and seriously consider prosecuting State Department/USAID employees found to be involved with illegal political activity.

Quote from: Tory Potter on September 15, 2022, 06:04:30 PMCall me paranoid. I am paranoid when it comes to clicking on any link. It is a habit I picked up from work. I shy away from doing any serious research on the internet. That is what libraries are for. The internet is for entertainment. I treat anything on the internet the same way I treat television. I am skeptical of all the claims and counter claims in politics and war in the same way I am doubtful Clark Kent can fly. Yes, I have seen video claims that Russia is winning, and that Jim Rockford can be knocked unconscious 20 times with no lasting effects of concussion or this or that happened in the Ukainian election, but the video or the links could be from the GRU. There are computer wizards who can create a video of Governor Abbott doing unpleasent things to a skunk and you cannot tell it's a fake.
So, maybe President Obama did something nefarious in the Ukraine but it will take something more than something on the internet to convince me. What can I say, I have always tried to keep an open mind and the litmus test for me is a ruling in court. Just as President Trump was acquitted in his trial in the Senate and is therefore innocent, so, for me everyone is presumed innocent UNLESS proven guilty in Court.It is the way I was trained. I've slipped up sometimes but that's where I am coming from.

I'm sorry. There is nothing that you just posted that can be taken seriously. Go to the library to do your research????? Afraid of the computer???? Hate to tell you this, everything is on the internet. If you really want to research anything, it is on the internet. Granted, google censers the conservatives, that should not concern you, you're liberal, that should work to your advantage.

QuoteSo, maybe President Obama did something nefarious in the Ukraine but it will take something more than something on the internet to convince me.

Again, sorry, what you posted is again not believable. Anything that is now happening TODAY, is on the internet and nowhere else. You choose to IGNORE the facts because they are only on the internet shows YOUR stupidity, DO NOT ask us to play in your fantasy world. The facts are there, you are not claiming the source is wrong, only where it is found????????  Come on, you show us where the facts we posted were wrong. Show us where Ukraine had FREE elections with no outside influence. Show us where the facts are wrong that the dnc did not try to influence Ukraine policy. Tell us Biden did not threaten Ukraine with cutting off graft is they did not stop a investigation.   

Quote from: Tory Potter on September 15, 2022, 12:41:17 PMBack to President Putin, his close friends in the oligarchy are falling out of tall buildings, falling off their boats or, the latest, dying of a stroke during a picnic. Is somebody trying to send a message?
The Russian army still has over 10,500 tanks. If I were a betting man, I would not be putting any money on Ukraine.

What? Are you a conspiracy theorist?

https://www.zerohedge.com/energy/russias-largest-oil-producer-boosts-profits-despite-sanctions

Russia's Largest Oil Producer Boosts Profits Despite Sanctions

Quote from: taxed on September 16, 2022, 02:45:25 AMhttps://www.zerohedge.com/energy/russias-largest-oil-producer-boosts-profits-despite-sanctions

Russia's Largest Oil Producer Boosts Profits Despite Sanctions

Do a 10 year spread. Yeah, Putin's hurtin....          

Honestly, I'm enjoying the nut clamp Putin has on Europe.

https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/natural-gas

Quote from: Solar on September 16, 2022, 06:27:13 AMDo a 10 year spread. Yeah, Putin's hurtin....          

Honestly, I'm enjoying the nut clamp Putin has on Europe.

https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/natural-gas

Seems like just yesterday Europe was making fun of Trump for telling Europe they needs to distance themselves from Russia and become more independent. Guess they showed him.   

Quote from: Possum on September 16, 2022, 06:55:31 AMSeems like just yesterday Europe was making fun of Trump for telling Europe they needs to distance themselves from Russia and become more independent. Guess they showed him.   

That kind of verifies the old saying, "He who laughs last laughs best!"