Quote from: taxed on November 11, 2019, 04:00:34 PM
Proof, or retract your lie.  This is the 3rd request.

Proof of what? Quid pro quos happen all the time in everyday life. There's nothing wrong with them.


Trade deals are essentially quid pro quos...we buy this from you, you buy that from us

Quote from: joesixpack on November 11, 2019, 03:58:36 PM
When I joined I commented in another thread and someone linked me to an Economist article that I'm still trying to digest.

There's nothing wrong with quid pro quos. They happen all the time, like Mulvaney said. My only concern would be the outside interference in our elections. Especially coming off of 2016 with the Russians.

If DT had just sent Rudy over there to dig up dirt on the Bidens and Clintons I wouldn't bat an eye.

What's wrong, to me, is allegedly using his Presidential power to withhold aid to our strategic ally against Russia in order to dig up that dirt.

That should be investigated. That's an abuse of power, to me.

How is the president enforcing the law an abuse of power? Trump did not ask for opo research or dirt  per se. He requested that Ukraine investigate the corruption involving the Bidens and Burisma that happened in Ukraine. That is what the law that was signed into law by Slick Willy says.

Quote from: Killer Clouds on November 11, 2019, 04:12:28 PM
How is the president enforcing the law an abuse of power? Trump did not ask for opo research or dirt  per se. He requested that Ukraine investigate the corruption involving the Bidens and Burisma that happened in Ukraine. That is what the law that was signed into law by Slick Willy says.

There's nothing wrong with that by itself either. It's the withholding of aid that tips it over, I guess.

Investigating Biden and Hillary has less to do with our National Security and foreign policy than aiding Ukraine militarily and financially. It comes off as a personal thing.

Quote from: joesixpack on November 11, 2019, 04:17:04 PM
There's nothing wrong with that by itself either. It's the withholding of aid that tips it over, I guess.

Investigating Biden and Hillary has less to do with our National Security and foreign policy than aiding Ukraine militarily and financially. It comes off as a personal thing.

That's just it, Trump did not tell the pres of Ukraine that aid was to be withheld. That aid was released to the Ukraine with no conditions attached. It's why I copied the transcripts to you in an earlier post. The dims went running with this quid pro quo before they saw the transcripts , they went on hearsay and are up to their eyeballs in lies. They see their only path is to continue the lies.

Quote from: joesixpack on November 11, 2019, 04:17:04 PM
There's nothing wrong with that by itself either. It's the withholding of aid that tips it over, I guess.

Investigating Biden and Hillary has less to do with our National Security and foreign policy than aiding Ukraine militarily and financially. It comes off as a personal thing.

Why do you keep bringing up the aid? The aid wasn't part of the conversation. It was a separate deal completely. The Ukrainians already admitted they didn't know the aid was being held up to begin with. The aid was released without and investigation even being started. Read what the transcript says.

What you're doing is like me telling you the sky is beautiful and then you saying  I said tut he sky is blue. I didn't say that and I didn't mean that but that would be your interpretation of what I said.

Quote from: Killer Clouds on November 11, 2019, 04:29:33 PM
Why do you keep bringing up the aid? The aid wasn't part of the conversation. It was a separate deal completely. The Ukrainians already admitted they didn't know the aid was being held up to begin with. The aid was released without and investigation even being started. Read what the transcript says.

What you're doing is like me telling you the sky is beautiful and then you saying  I said tut he sky is blue. I didn't say that and I didn't mean that but that would be your interpretation of what I said.

I bring up the aid because all of the alleged evidence and testimonies say it was a factor.

This whole thing could be easily resolved if the President, Rudy, and Mulvaney testified. If they have to they will.

In the meantime, we're in for a media show this week.

Quote from: joesixpack on November 11, 2019, 03:58:36 PM
When I joined I commented in another thread and someone linked me to an Economist article that I'm still trying to digest.

There's nothing wrong with quid pro quos. They happen all the time, like Mulvaney said. My only concern would be the outside interference in our elections. Especially coming off of 2016 with the Russians.

If DT had just sent Rudy over there to dig up dirt on the Bidens and Clintons I wouldn't bat an eye.

What's wrong, to me, is allegedly using his Presidential power to withhold aid to our strategic ally against Russia in order to dig up that dirt.

That should be investigated. That's an abuse of power, to me.

Trump isn't sending Rudy to "Dig up dirt", Rudy is investigatig serious crimes. Joe Biden already provided the "dirt", actually committed a crime, a violation of US/Ukraine treaty probably obstruction of justice and likely a whole bunch of other feloines and misdemeanors while serving as Vice President, Joe even admitted to these transgressions and bragged about it when he held a press conference and told the world how he got the Ukraine prosecutor investigating his sons fishy Business deal Fired by THREATENING TO WITHOLD AIDE. Now for me, the icing on that cake is very Likely the KeNyan had Joe's back over that little macho display so throw his ass into the mix too.

So if you beleive Trump committed and offense then you must admit that Biden committed an offense and should be investigated, How is THAT for a Quid Pro Quo?

Trump has every right to further this Ivestigation as it is likely that crimes were committed in the US as well as In and Against Ukraine. OH ad the big one is.....It is BIDENS SON NOT BIDEN WHO IS BEING INVESTIGATED, or was the Source of the investigation  and last I checked Hunter Biden isn't running for office, so you can forget all that "digging up dirt of political rivals BS"

Quote from: Billy's bayonet on November 11, 2019, 04:42:05 PM
Trump isn't sending Rudy to "Dig up dirt", Rudy is investigatig serious crimes. Joe Biden already provided the "dirt", actually committed a crime, a violation of US/Ukraine treaty probably obstruction of justice and likely a whole bunch of other feloines and misdemeanors while serving as Vice President, Joe even admitted to these transgressions and bragged about it when he held a press conference and told the world how he got the Ukraine prosecutor investigating his sons fishy Business deal Fired by THREATENING TO WITHOLD AIDE. Now for me, the icing on that cake is very Likely the KeNyan had Joe's back over that little macho display so throw his ass into the mix too.

So if you beleive Trump committed and offense then you must admit that Biden committed an offense and should be investigated, How is THAT for a Quid Pro Quo?

Trump has every right to further this Ivestigation as it is likely that crimes were committed in the US as well as In and Against Ukraine. OH ad the big one is.....It is BIDENS SON NOT BIDEN WHO IS BEING INVESTIGATED, or was the Source of the investigation  and last I checked Hunter Biden isn't running for office, so you can forget all that "digging up dirt of political rivals BS"

I appreciate your response. I joined here to get a bit more informed, and your post made me google this Ukrraine-Burisma thing.

I mentioned earlier that in another thread someone linked a good Economist article that I'm trying to understand. In my search now, I found a nice timeline of the situation.

https://www.justsecurity.org/66271/timeline-trump-giuliani-bidens-and-ukrainegate/

I'll continue to read the forum and discuss with you all in an effort to be better informed

Quote from: joesixpack on November 11, 2019, 04:05:24 PM


Proof of what? Quid pro quos happen all the time in everyday life. There's nothing wrong with them.

Show proof of your accusations against the President, or retract.  This is the 4th request.

Quote from: joesixpack on November 11, 2019, 04:39:15 PM
I bring up the aid because all of the alleged evidence and testimonies say it was a factor.

This whole thing could be easily resolved if the President, Rudy, and Mulvaney testified. If they have to they will.

In the meantime, we're in for a media show this week.

The point being IF YOU READ THE TRANSCRIPT you will see with your own eyes that the aid was never mentioned at all.

Quote from: Killer Clouds on November 11, 2019, 05:11:22 PM
The point being IF YOU READ THE TRANSCRIPT you will see with your own eyes that the aid was never mentioned at all.

It's hard to have quo when there is no quid.

Quote from: taxed on November 11, 2019, 05:10:56 PM
Show proof of your accusations against the President, or retract.  This is the 4th request.

I'm not accusing him. I'm just trying to keep up with the narrative. I thought, based on the news, extortion was a better description of that he's being accused of.

Someone asked me a follow-up question, and I admitted that I was wrong. And quid pro quo would better describe what he's being accused of.

And the conversation continued from there...

Quote from: joesixpack on November 11, 2019, 05:47:10 PM
I'm not accusing him. I'm just trying to keep up with the narrative. I thought, based on the news, extortion was a better description of that he's being accused of.

Someone asked me a follow-up question, and I admitted that I was wrong. And quid pro quo would better describe what he's being accused of.

And the conversation continued from there...

This is what they want. The democrats are playing with words to try and make a nothing look like something. They want to impeach on semantics.

Quote from: joesixpack on November 11, 2019, 05:47:10 PM
I'm not accusing him. I'm just trying to keep up with the narrative. I thought, based on the news, extortion was a better description of that he's being accused of.

Someone asked me a follow-up question, and I admitted that I was wrong. And quid pro quo would better describe what he's being accused of.

And the conversation continued from there...

Show proof of a quid pro quo, or retract the lie.  This is your 5th request.  Parroting a false narrative doesn't absolve you.  Provide proof, or retract.

Quote from: joesixpack on November 11, 2019, 03:58:36 PM
When I joined I commented in another thread and someone linked me to an Economist article that I'm still trying to digest.

There's nothing wrong with quid pro quos. They happen all the time, like Mulvaney said. My only concern would be the outside interference in our elections. Especially coming off of 2016 with the Russians.

If DT had just sent Rudy over there to dig up dirt on the Bidens and Clintons I wouldn't bat an eye.

What's wrong, to me, is allegedly using his Presidential power to withhold aid to our strategic ally against Russia in order to dig up that dirt.

That should be investigated. That's an abuse of power, to me.

"Economist".
You should know better.