Quote from: daidalos on December 07, 2015, 08:10:35 AM
Were we even trying to develop the atomic weaponry under FDR? Or did that all start later on, under Truman or after we learned the Germans were trying to work on one?

Yes, started in 1939 moved to Manhattan Project in '42
And yes, because of fears the Germans were

There is some fascinating history on wikipedia.  If you're interested, look up the Demon Core for the stuff of nightmares.

Quote from: kit saginaw on December 07, 2015, 03:29:55 AM
Infamy. 

God bless the Americans who died there.

And the P-38 pilots and flight-crews who tracked-down and killed Isoroku Yamamoto.



" We got 'im. "

P38 Lightning... my FAVORITE plane from WW2, only an A-10 Thunderbolt could replace it in my heart as a "Wish I could get a chance to fly..."

My Uncle, who saw all his service in the US Navy in the Pacific fighting the Japanese (He saw the flag go up on IWO) says that the decision to nuke Japan is what kept him and tens of thousands of US Servicemen, alive. With a ground invasion....we'd still be fighting the Japanese.

Quote from: Billy's bayonet on December 07, 2015, 04:40:52 PM
My Uncle, who saw all his service in the US Navy in the Pacific fighting the Japanese (He saw the flag go up on IWO) says that the decision to nuke Japan is what kept him and tens of thousands of US Servicemen, alive. With a ground invasion....we'd still be fighting the Japanese.

The name "Big Boy" was a little understated...and probably still causes pause to cringe a bit over there. I'll never forget what happened Dec 7th in Pearl...from education-something I cherish as a gift from my parents...since that all occurred  12 years before I was born.

Quote from: quiller on December 06, 2015, 05:25:14 PM
Would FDR actually have USED a nuke against Japan? Doubtful! Democrats have this amazing childlike belief that you can REASON with your enemies.

In all fairness, Harry S. was a democrat. He placed a placard on his desk "The Buck Stops Here." It took him a little more than 24 hours after two days of analysis and briefings to sign off on using nucs against Japan. To also be fair (though, of course, we know a heck of a lot more about it now than they did then) it is not a decision I would want to be saddled with - ever.

Though I have little doubt that if Harry were alive and active in politics, he, like Reagan, would have changed parties rather than be associated with the limp wristed panty stains that make up the D party these days.

History is full of ironies.

In WII the USA shipped Jewish Servicemen to Asia, on the premise Hitler would treat Jewish POW's badly. True.

So they ended up in the Pacific, where the Japanese would treat EVERYONE badly.

America expended plenty of Blood and Treasure liberating the Chinese from the Japanese.

Why did China turn on us so soon afterwards ?

Quote from: SalemCat on December 07, 2015, 08:06:24 PM
Why did China turn on us so soon afterwards ?

They didn't.  Taiwan is still our ally...  where Chiang Kai Shek's government fled-to in 1949 when Mao's commies won a 3-year civil war. 

Quote from: SalemCat on December 07, 2015, 08:04:06 PM
History is full of ironies.

In WII the USA shipped Jewish Servicemen to Asia, on the premise Hitler would treat Jewish POW's badly. True.

So they ended up in the Pacific, where the Japanese would treat EVERYONE badly.

And we sent our Nisei troops to the European theater to fight the Nazis instead of to the Pacific theater to fight the Japanese.

 

Sad news - The last veteran, participant of storm of Reichstag in Berlin in the spring of 1945, died.  Nikolay Beliaev, died september 8, at the age of 93. In 1945 he was young leutenant in 756th regiment, what was the first to storm into Reighstag.

Quote from: quiller on December 06, 2015, 05:25:14 PM
Would FDR actually have USED a nuke against Japan? Doubtful! Democrats have this amazing childlike belief that you can REASON with your enemies.

Hmmmmn! I always thought Harry S was a DIM. My bad, I guess.

Quote from: kit saginaw on December 07, 2015, 03:29:55 AM
Infamy. 

God bless the Americans who died there.

And the P-38 pilots and flight-crews who tracked-down and killed Isoroku Yamamoto.



" We got 'im. "

Magnificent airplane. Came late to the war. Before that it was the Wildcats, Hellcats, TBFs, and Corsairs that carried the fight. My Pop was on a small Minesweeper at Leyte Gulf and told me years afterwards, the only thing that saved their bacon were the Marine and Navy carrier pilots that kept the Japs at bay.

Personally, I believe MacArthur received far too much credit for winning the Pacific Theater. Nimitz and Halsey got the marines and soldiers to where they fought.

Quote from: Billy's bayonet on December 07, 2015, 04:40:52 PM
My Uncle, who saw all his service in the US Navy in the Pacific fighting the Japanese (He saw the flag go up on IWO) says that the decision to nuke Japan is what kept him and tens of thousands of US Servicemen, alive. With a ground invasion....we'd still be fighting the Japanese.

My dad fought in the Army as a Radio Signalman, taking one island after another, towards Tokyo (clearing the way for McArthur...eh).  One of those "targeted" by Jap snipers.  He lost his best friend when a mortar hit his foxhole, and one night when the forward communication lines kept getting cut, he was the last of 4 men to run new wire, said they literally drew straws ... the other 3 were sniped.   I can't imagine crawling over the body of your buddy's...  an hour before you wish "good luck" to, with a roll of wire in each arm.   Hated Japs until the day he died, but, watched every movie, documentary about the pacific theater and Japanese life.   Hated them, but kept studying them, long after the war was won.

The stuff he saw must have been bad, he rarely talked about it, but had terrible nightmares for decades - even my mom said she would be awaken - his hands on her throat, thinking she was a Jap, re-living that nightmare of hand-to-hand combat, over and over.  He often talked of sleeping while the Navy fired shells over their heads, but if the whistling of the bombs stopped, they'd immediately wake up.  And, unlike BO., he said the Japs were fierce, dedicated fighters, to-the-death, and never surrendered, we owe them NO APOLOGY.  They took  no prisoners, nobody surrendered, it was fight to the death, or commit suicide.

He was the kind of father & man that made many lasting friendships, loved my mom ... despite his war experience, he brought much joy and humor into our lives, a man's man, the kind of guy most women would want, and real men would aspire to.  His word was as good as a contract, his handshake a down payment.  Yeah, I miss him.  He died 35 years ago.  I'm glad to say, "They STILL make 'em like that today!"  Just as many, maybe even more than before, and every one of them is starting to stand up for this country and expecting to be heard, soon enough.

Quote from: Hoofer on December 08, 2015, 02:57:05 PM
My dad fought in the Army as a Radio Signalman, taking one island after another, towards Tokyo (clearing the way for McArthur...eh).  One of those "targeted" by Jap snipers.  He lost his best friend when a mortar hit his foxhole, and one night when the forward communication lines kept getting cut, he was the last of 4 men to run new wire, said they literally drew straws ... the other 3 were sniped.   I can't imagine crawling over the body of your buddy's...  an hour before you wish "good luck" to, with a roll of wire in each arm.   Hated Japs until the day he died, but, watched every movie, documentary about the pacific theater and Japanese life.   Hated them, but kept studying them, long after the war was won.

The stuff he saw must have been bad, he rarely talked about it, but had terrible nightmares for decades - even my mom said she would be awaken - his hands on her throat, thinking she was a Jap, re-living that nightmare of hand-to-hand combat, over and over.  He often talked of sleeping while the Navy fired shells over their heads, but if the whistling of the bombs stopped, they'd immediately wake up.  And, unlike BO., he said the Japs were fierce, dedicated fighters, to-the-death, and never surrendered, we owe them NO APOLOGY.  They took  no prisoners, nobody surrendered, it was fight to the death, or commit suicide.

He was the kind of father & man that made many lasting friendships, loved my mom ... despite his war experience, he brought much joy and humor into our lives, a man's man, the kind of guy most women would want, and real men would aspire to.  His word was as good as a contract, his handshake a down payment.  Yeah, I miss him.  He died 35 years ago.  I'm glad to say, "They STILL make 'em like that today!"  Just as many, maybe even more than before, and every one of them is starting to stand up for this country and expecting to be heard, soon enough.

You know I could say that Your Father and My Father (and all my Uncles) sounded like the same person, all had been in WW2, different theaters, My Father was third wave on the Beach on D day, another fought his way thru Italy w/Patton (Artillery) and two in the Navy in The Pacific, in addition to the one I mentioned previously who saw the flag raised over IWO, another had his ship hit by Kamakazi's, I think off Okinawa. One thing I can say about them all....they HATED the Japanese, even after the war, God forbid my mother bring anything into the house made in Japan, he'd throw it away or smash it. 

Even though he fought against Germans he never had the same feeling, I noticed that Vets of the WW2 era were much the same....I think it was the whole sneak attack thing they found so reprehensible....that and the brutality of the JIA troops who slaughtered lots of American/British and Aussie POW's.

Thanks for both of your fathers' service, Shooterman and Hoofer.  They stood like a stone-wall.