Pearl Harbor
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It is sad to think how far removed the younger generation is from this historic disaster. It just becomes another date on the calendar to too many folks.
FDR was trying to avoid the war just like Obama is trying to avoid this one. It always leads to disaster when you put your head in the sand and pretend all is well when it most definitely is NOT.
I know that my Dad certainly never failed to give great reflexion on this day each year. The events were seared into his memory.... just like D-Day! For that reason I also reflect on the great losses of those days each year.
There's a lesson for the world to learn from that attack on the United States.
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Payback is a real b...h :lol:
Quote from: daidalos on December 06, 2015, 03:23:17 PM
There's a lesson for the world to learn from that attack on the United States.
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Payback is a real b...h :lol:
Yes, but it took a new Administration to do it!!!
Another good lesson!
God rest the souls of the Men and Women who died on that long ao Dec 7th......lets us always be vigilant against SNEAK ATTACKS by foreign foes.
Quote from: kroz on December 06, 2015, 03:31:03 PM
Yes, but it took a new Administration to do it!!!
Another good lesson!
Would FDR actually have USED a nuke against Japan? Doubtful! Democrats have this amazing childlike belief that you can REASON with your enemies.
Quote from: quiller on December 06, 2015, 05:25:14 PM
Would FDR actually have USED a nuke against Japan? Doubtful! Democrats have this amazing childlike belief that you can REASON with your enemies.
Yes they do. That was my point. FDR would have never done it. Wrong thinking... just like every democrat!
The Dems would probably have said that Japan was practicing a religion of peace (Shinto and Buddhism) and we should just let them alone and maybe confiscate all the guns n America to crack down on "domestic terrorism".
Quote from: walkstall on December 06, 2015, 12:39:20 PM
Pearl Harbor
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Wifey and I visited the Arizona memorial... back in 1983, first week in December, I highly recommend it to everyone!
The most eerie feeling I've ever had visiting a memorial,
an intense sense of loss, yet very respectful of the whole place.The tiny bubbles of oil leaking, gave me a sense of reality or life ... "this is more real than a headstone in a cemetery"
I don't know if I could ever go back there again, I feel like I lost more than tears there.
Quote from: Hoofer on December 06, 2015, 06:08:53 PM
Wifey and I visited the Arizona memorial... back in 1983, first week in December, I highly recommend it to everyone!
The most eerie feeling I've ever had visiting a memorial, an intense sense of loss, yet very respectful of the whole place.
The tiny bubbles of oil leaking, gave me a sense of reality or life ... "this is more real than a headstone in a cemetery"
I don't know if I could ever go back there again, I feel like I lost more than tears there.
I had a similar experience Hoofer. Hallowed ground!
Quote from: Billy's bayonet on December 06, 2015, 05:50:11 PM
The Dems would probably have said that Japan was practicing a religion of peace (Shinto and Buddhism) and we should just let them alone and maybe confiscate all the guns n America to crack down on "domestic terrorism".
Ahem.
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Infamy.
God bless the Americans who died there.
And the P-38 pilots and flight-crews who tracked-down and killed Isoroku Yamamoto.
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" We got 'im. "
Democraps, are totally incapable of sensing that sense of tremendous loss.
Quote from: quiller on December 06, 2015, 05:25:14 PM
Would FDR actually have USED a nuke against Japan? Doubtful! Democrats have this amazing childlike belief that you can REASON with your enemies.
Were we even trying to develop the atomic weaponry under FDR? Or did that all start later on, under Truman or after we learned the Germans were trying to work on one?
Quote from: daidalos on December 07, 2015, 08:10:35 AM
Were we even trying to develop the atomic weaponry under FDR? Or did that all start later on, under Truman or after we learned the Germans were trying to work on one?
Einstein informed FDR of the
hun nuke-plan in a 1939 letter after Leo Szilard squealed to Einstein...
Physicists already knew about a bomb-potential for a few years, until Szilard realized the nazi's now knew about it. The key
intelligence bit for FDR:
" I understand that Germany has actually stopped the sale of uranium from the Czechoslovakian mines which she has taken over. That she should have taken such early action might perhaps be understood on the ground that the son of the German Under-Secretary of State, von Weizsäcker, is attached to the Kaiser-Wilhelm-Institut in Berlin where some of the American work on uranium is now being repeated. "
Quote from: daidalos on December 07, 2015, 08:10:35 AM
Were we even trying to develop the atomic weaponry under FDR? Or did that all start later on, under Truman or after we learned the Germans were trying to work on one?
Yes, started in 1939 moved to Manhattan Project in '42
And yes, because of fears the Germans were
There is some fascinating history on wikipedia. If you're interested, look up the Demon Core for the stuff of nightmares.
Quote from: kit saginaw on December 07, 2015, 03:29:55 AM
Infamy.
God bless the Americans who died there.
And the P-38 pilots and flight-crews who tracked-down and killed Isoroku Yamamoto.
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" We got 'im. "
P38 Lightning... my FAVORITE plane from WW2, only an
A-10 Thunderbolt could replace it in my heart as a "Wish I could get a chance to fly..."
My Uncle, who saw all his service in the US Navy in the Pacific fighting the Japanese (He saw the flag go up on IWO) says that the decision to nuke Japan is what kept him and tens of thousands of US Servicemen, alive. With a ground invasion....we'd still be fighting the Japanese.
Quote from: Billy's bayonet on December 07, 2015, 04:40:52 PM
My Uncle, who saw all his service in the US Navy in the Pacific fighting the Japanese (He saw the flag go up on IWO) says that the decision to nuke Japan is what kept him and tens of thousands of US Servicemen, alive. With a ground invasion....we'd still be fighting the Japanese.
The name "Big Boy" was a little understated...and probably still causes pause to cringe a bit over there. I'll never forget what happened Dec 7th in Pearl...from education-something I cherish as a gift from my parents...since that all occurred 12 years before I was born.
Quote from: quiller on December 06, 2015, 05:25:14 PM
Would FDR actually have USED a nuke against Japan? Doubtful! Democrats have this amazing childlike belief that you can REASON with your enemies.
In all fairness, Harry S. was a democrat. He placed a placard on his desk "The Buck Stops Here." It took him a little more than 24 hours after two days of analysis and briefings to sign off on using nucs against Japan. To also be fair (though, of course, we know a heck of a lot more about it now than they did then) it is not a decision I would want to be saddled with - ever.
Though I have little doubt that if Harry were alive and active in politics, he, like Reagan, would have changed parties rather than be associated with the limp wristed panty stains that make up the D party these days.
History is full of ironies.
In WII the USA shipped Jewish Servicemen to Asia, on the premise Hitler would treat Jewish POW's badly. True.
So they ended up in the Pacific, where the Japanese would treat EVERYONE badly.
:cry:
America expended plenty of Blood and Treasure liberating the Chinese from the Japanese.
Why did China turn on us so soon afterwards ?
Quote from: SalemCat on December 07, 2015, 08:06:24 PM
Why did China turn on us so soon afterwards ?
They didn't. Taiwan is still our ally... where Chiang Kai Shek's government fled-to in 1949 when Mao's commies won a 3-year civil war.
Quote from: SalemCat on December 07, 2015, 08:04:06 PM
History is full of ironies.
In WII the USA shipped Jewish Servicemen to Asia, on the premise Hitler would treat Jewish POW's badly. True.
So they ended up in the Pacific, where the Japanese would treat EVERYONE badly.
:cry:
And we sent our Nisei troops to the European theater to fight the Nazis instead of to the Pacific theater to fight the Japanese.
Sad news - The last veteran, participant of storm of Reichstag in Berlin in the spring of 1945, died. Nikolay Beliaev, died september 8, at the age of 93. In 1945 he was young leutenant in 756th regiment, what was the first to storm into Reighstag.
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Quote from: quiller on December 06, 2015, 05:25:14 PM
Would FDR actually have USED a nuke against Japan? Doubtful! Democrats have this amazing childlike belief that you can REASON with your enemies.
Hmmmmn! I always thought Harry S was a DIM. My bad, I guess.
Quote from: kit saginaw on December 07, 2015, 03:29:55 AM
Infamy.
God bless the Americans who died there.
And the P-38 pilots and flight-crews who tracked-down and killed Isoroku Yamamoto.
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" We got 'im. "
Magnificent airplane. Came late to the war. Before that it was the Wildcats, Hellcats, TBFs, and Corsairs that carried the fight. My Pop was on a small Minesweeper at Leyte Gulf and told me years afterwards, the only thing that saved their bacon were the Marine and Navy carrier pilots that kept the Japs at bay.
Personally, I believe MacArthur received far too much credit for winning the Pacific Theater. Nimitz and Halsey got the marines and soldiers to where they fought.
Quote from: Billy's bayonet on December 07, 2015, 04:40:52 PM
My Uncle, who saw all his service in the US Navy in the Pacific fighting the Japanese (He saw the flag go up on IWO) says that the decision to nuke Japan is what kept him and tens of thousands of US Servicemen, alive. With a ground invasion....we'd still be fighting the Japanese.
My dad fought in the Army as a Radio Signalman, taking one island after another, towards Tokyo (clearing the way for McArthur...eh). One of those "targeted" by Jap snipers. He lost his best friend when a mortar hit his foxhole, and one night when the forward communication lines kept getting cut, he was the last of 4 men to run new wire, said they literally drew straws ... the other 3 were sniped. I can't imagine crawling over the body of your buddy's... an hour before you wish "good luck" to, with a roll of wire in each arm. Hated Japs until the day he died, but, watched every movie, documentary about the pacific theater and Japanese life. Hated them, but kept studying them, long after the war was won.
The stuff he saw must have been bad, he rarely talked about it, but had terrible nightmares for decades - even my mom said she would be awaken - his hands on her throat, thinking she was a Jap, re-living that nightmare of hand-to-hand combat, over and over. He often talked of sleeping while the Navy fired shells over their heads, but if the whistling of the bombs stopped, they'd immediately wake up. And, unlike BO., he said the Japs were fierce, dedicated fighters, to-the-death, and never surrendered, we owe them NO APOLOGY. They took no prisoners, nobody surrendered, it was
fight to the death, or commit suicide.
He was the kind of father & man that made many lasting friendships, loved my mom ... despite his war experience, he brought much joy and humor into our lives, a man's man, the kind of guy most women would want, and
real men would aspire to. His word was as good as a contract, his handshake a down payment. Yeah, I miss him. He died 35 years ago. I'm glad to say, "They STILL make 'em like that today!" Just as many,
maybe even more than before, and every one of them is starting to stand up for this country and expecting to be heard, soon enough.
Quote from: Hoofer on December 08, 2015, 02:57:05 PM
My dad fought in the Army as a Radio Signalman, taking one island after another, towards Tokyo (clearing the way for McArthur...eh). One of those "targeted" by Jap snipers. He lost his best friend when a mortar hit his foxhole, and one night when the forward communication lines kept getting cut, he was the last of 4 men to run new wire, said they literally drew straws ... the other 3 were sniped. I can't imagine crawling over the body of your buddy's... an hour before you wish "good luck" to, with a roll of wire in each arm. Hated Japs until the day he died, but, watched every movie, documentary about the pacific theater and Japanese life. Hated them, but kept studying them, long after the war was won.
The stuff he saw must have been bad, he rarely talked about it, but had terrible nightmares for decades - even my mom said she would be awaken - his hands on her throat, thinking she was a Jap, re-living that nightmare of hand-to-hand combat, over and over. He often talked of sleeping while the Navy fired shells over their heads, but if the whistling of the bombs stopped, they'd immediately wake up. And, unlike BO., he said the Japs were fierce, dedicated fighters, to-the-death, and never surrendered, we owe them NO APOLOGY. They took no prisoners, nobody surrendered, it was fight to the death, or commit suicide.
He was the kind of father & man that made many lasting friendships, loved my mom ... despite his war experience, he brought much joy and humor into our lives, a man's man, the kind of guy most women would want, and real men would aspire to. His word was as good as a contract, his handshake a down payment. Yeah, I miss him. He died 35 years ago. I'm glad to say, "They STILL make 'em like that today!" Just as many, maybe even more than before, and every one of them is starting to stand up for this country and expecting to be heard, soon enough.
You know I could say that Your Father and My Father (and all my Uncles) sounded like the same person, all had been in WW2, different theaters, My Father was third wave on the Beach on D day, another fought his way thru Italy w/Patton (Artillery) and two in the Navy in The Pacific, in addition to the one I mentioned previously who saw the flag raised over IWO, another had his ship hit by Kamakazi's, I think off Okinawa. One thing I can say about them all....they HATED the Japanese, even after the war, God forbid my mother bring anything into the house made in Japan, he'd throw it away or smash it.
Even though he fought against Germans he never had the same feeling, I noticed that Vets of the WW2 era were much the same....I think it was the whole sneak attack thing they found so reprehensible....that and the brutality of the JIA troops who slaughtered lots of American/British and Aussie POW's.
Thanks for both of your fathers' service, Shooterman and Hoofer. They stood like a stone-wall.
Quote from: kalash on December 08, 2015, 09:33:38 AM
Sad news - The last veteran, participant of storm of Reichstag in Berlin in the spring of 1945, died. Nikolay Beliaev, died september 8, at the age of 93. In 1945 he was young leutenant in 756th regiment, what was the first to storm into Reighstag.
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A noble ally he was.
What a surging rush of adrenaline to be among the first to
storm that lurid citadel. Then witness the raising of the Red Flag on one of its now-barren flagpoles.
Rest In Peace, Nikolay
Quote from: Billy's bayonet on December 08, 2015, 03:33:12 PM
You know I could say that Your Father and My Father (and all my Uncles) sounded like the same person, all had been in WW2, different theaters, My Father was third wave on the Beach on D day, another fought his way thru Italy w/Patton (Artillery) and two in the Navy in The Pacific, in addition to the one I mentioned previously who saw the flag raised over IWO, another had his ship hit by Kamakazi's, I think off Okinawa. One thing I can say about them all....they HATED the Japanese, even after the war, God forbid my mother bring anything into the house made in Japan, he'd throw it away or smash it.
Even though he fought against Germans he never had the same feeling, I noticed that Vets of the WW2 era were much the same....I think it was the whole sneak attack thing they found so reprehensible....that and the brutality of the JIA troops who slaughtered lots of American/British and Aussie POW's.
Exactly! ..and the more they heard/saw of the Japanese culture, the less they wanted it - so repressive and cruel.
Yeah, our first TV was a Zenith - dad wouldn't go for Jap-crap.
Quote from: kit saginaw on December 08, 2015, 03:36:09 PM
Thanks for both of your fathers' service, Shooterman and Hoofer. They stood like a stone-wall.
Boys became men, before they wanted to. We have a great generation coming up behind us, boys that deserve the same honor for fighting for freedom in the middle east... all we need is the right leader to galvanize them again. I am very optimistic about the future.
Quote from: Shooterman on December 08, 2015, 11:57:43 AM
Magnificent airplane. Came late to the war. Before that it was the Wildcats, Hellcats, TBFs, and Corsairs that carried the fight. My Pop was on a small Minesweeper at Leyte Gulf and told me years afterwards, the only thing that saved their bacon were the Marine and Navy carrier pilots that kept the Japs at bay.
Personally, I believe MacArthur received far too much credit for winning the Pacific Theater. Nimitz and Halsey got the marines and soldiers to where they fought.
Actually the P38 preceded the Hellcat and the Corsair. The Army Air Corps in the Pacific, like them for their range, and that 20mm nose cannon was deadly on those flammable Japanese aircraft.
Actually MacArthur fought a number of battles that weren't necessary. He invade the Philippines simply to make good on his promise, when it would have been smarter to simply go around them and attack Formosa.
Quote from: Hoofer on December 08, 2015, 04:09:50 PM
Exactly! ..and the more they heard/saw of the Japanese culture, the less they wanted it - so repressive and cruel.
Yeah, our first TV was a Zenith - dad wouldn't go for Jap-crap.
Boys became men, before they wanted to. We have a great generation coming up behind us, boys that deserve the same honor for fighting for freedom in the middle east... all we need is the right leader to galvanize them again. I am very optimistic about the future.
Two things that will bring a tear to your eye....one is the actual Bridge on the river Qwai in Thailand, first you go to the Historical center and cemetary, walking thru the burial grounds where the POWs who were forced to build the RR for the Japanese you see nothing but headstones of 17 18 and 19 year old BOYS from Australia and New Zealand, hundreds and hundreds of them.
The second thing is the Bata'an death march, long ago me and some friends took a bike hike along this 60 some mile route, markers all over...here died 10 men, US Army, here died 12 men Filipino armed forces etc....dozens of trail markers of men who were killed, often bayoneted when they couldn't walk any more. The Local Filipino's regularly put flowers and crosses to mark these little headstones and monuments and Pray for the souls of the dead.
Quote from: Shooterman on December 08, 2015, 11:36:50 AM
Hmmmmn! I always thought Harry S was a DIM. My bad, I guess.
And as Rompin' Ronnie Reagan said, you old coot, "There you go again!" :wink:
Harry S Truman was in fact a Democrat, and the last one we didn't have to apologize for. He knew there are some hard calls no President can avoid, and enemies who will never listen.
Truman would take Obama off to one side and probably rip his throat out. But that would be fantasy, for Truman and old-style Democrats are all dead, and so is their idea of patriotism.
Quote from: mdgiles on December 08, 2015, 04:34:56 PM
Actually the P38 preceded the Hellcat and the Corsair. The Army Air Corps in the Pacific, like them for their range, and that 20mm nose cannon was deadly on those flammable Japanese aircraft.
Actually MacArthur fought a number of battles that weren't necessary. He invade the Philippines simply to make good on his promise, when it would have been smarter to simply go around them and attack Formosa.
Yeah, he sure did a heck of a job driving Islam out of Mindanao..... :rolleyes:
Quote from: SalemCat on December 07, 2015, 08:06:24 PM
America expended plenty of Blood and Treasure liberating the Chinese from the Japanese.
Why did China turn on us so soon afterwards ?
We helped Chang Kai Chek, a warlord that had come to power. The Commies then fought Chang after the war. They felt they owed us nothing. Plus they were under the influence of Uncle Joe.
Quote from: Hoofer on December 08, 2015, 02:57:05 PM
My dad fought in the Army as a Radio Signalman, taking one island after another, towards Tokyo (clearing the way for McArthur...eh). One of those "targeted" by Jap snipers. He lost his best friend when a mortar hit his foxhole, and one night when the forward communication lines kept getting cut, he was the last of 4 men to run new wire, said they literally drew straws ... the other 3 were sniped. I can't imagine crawling over the body of your buddy's... an hour before you wish "good luck" to, with a roll of wire in each arm. Hated Japs until the day he died, but, watched every movie, documentary about the pacific theater and Japanese life. Hated them, but kept studying them, long after the war was won.
The stuff he saw must have been bad, he rarely talked about it, but had terrible nightmares for decades - even my mom said she would be awaken - his hands on her throat, thinking she was a Jap, re-living that nightmare of hand-to-hand combat, over and over. He often talked of sleeping while the Navy fired shells over their heads, but if the whistling of the bombs stopped, they'd immediately wake up. And, unlike BO., he said the Japs were fierce, dedicated fighters, to-the-death, and never surrendered, we owe them NO APOLOGY. They took no prisoners, nobody surrendered, it was fight to the death, or commit suicide.
He was the kind of father & man that made many lasting friendships, loved my mom ... despite his war experience, he brought much joy and humor into our lives, a man's man, the kind of guy most women would want, and real men would aspire to. His word was as good as a contract, his handshake a down payment. Yeah, I miss him. He died 35 years ago. I'm glad to say, "They STILL make 'em like that today!" Just as many, maybe even more than before, and every one of them is starting to stand up for this country and expecting to be heard, soon enough.
Pop fought the same demons when he came home. Mom walked the floor many a night with him. Now days it is called PTSD. Back then, a guy got through it the best he could. Pop had a total of 12 years in and was offered a Warrant Officer commission to stay. Nope, he said, enough is enough, I'm going home. He didn't do too shabby for a fellow without a high school diploma.
He's been dead 26 years and not a day goes by I don't miss him.
Quote from: quiller on December 08, 2015, 05:07:51 PM
And as Rompin' Ronnie Reagan said, you old coot, "There you go again!" :wink:
Harry S Truman was in fact a Democrat, and the last one we didn't have to apologize for. He knew there are some hard calls no President can avoid, and enemies who will never listen.
Truman would take Obama off to one side and probably rip his throat out. But that would be fantasy, for Truman and old-style Democrats are all dead, and so is their idea of patriotism.
That would be difficult. Could you gut a piece of dental floss?
Quote from: kit saginaw on December 08, 2015, 03:36:09 PM
Thanks for both of your fathers' service, Shooterman and Hoofer. They stood like a stone-wall.
After Coral Sea, we were desperate for carriers so his tanker went into dry dock to be converted to a carrier. He went to the Atlantic on convoy duty into Murmansk, which was above the Arctic Circle. I can only imagine how cold it got with nothing but the steel all around you. Hell, I almost froze to death going over to Korea.
For those interested, get a copy of the 'With The Old Breed'. It is scary what the First Marines went through.
''even my mom said she would be awaken - his hands on her throat, thinking she was a Jap,"
I'll bet THIS was his greatest nightmare - that he would harm the LOVE of his life while dreaming she was a JAP.
Awful.
I'm not revealing my life to strangers, but some of us have dreams like your Dad did.
May God bless him.
Quote from: quiller on December 06, 2015, 05:25:14 PM
Would FDR actually have USED a nuke against Japan? Doubtful! Democrats have this amazing childlike belief that you can REASON with your enemies.
Um... Truman (who ordered the attacks) was a Democrat, too!
Also, the A-bomb was developed at the direction of FDR's Administration. The purpose of the bomb was to bring the war to quick end, saving American lives.
If FDR had lived, he would have dropped the bomb.
Quote from: Billy's bayonet on December 08, 2015, 05:04:34 PM
Two things that will bring a tear to your eye....one is the actual Bridge on the river Qwai in Thailand
I refuse to ever watch this movie again. It humanizes the Japs, of that era, who do not deserve that.
On the other hand, I pray the modern day Japanese quickly improve their Military. They can no longer count on Obama's America to protect them.
Quote from: Billy's bayonet on December 08, 2015, 05:04:34 PM
Two things that will bring a tear to your eye....one is the actual Bridge on the river Qwai in Thailand, first you go to the Historical center and cemetary, walking thru the burial grounds where the POWs who were forced to build the RR for the Japanese you see nothing but headstones of 17 18 and 19 year old BOYS from Australia and New Zealand, hundreds and hundreds of them.
The second thing is the Bata'an death march, long ago me and some friends took a bike hike along this 60 some mile route, markers all over...here died 10 men, US Army, here died 12 men Filipino armed forces etc....dozens of trail markers of men who were killed, often bayoneted when they couldn't walk any more. The Local Filipino's regularly put flowers and crosses to mark these little headstones and monuments and Pray for the souls of the dead.
While in basic training, one of our chem-bio instructors was a career soldier, SFC if I remember that had survived the Bataan Death March, I believe he was Filipino.
Speaking of irony:
Today, in Lafayette Indiana,
there's a factory built by a Japanese auto company.
It's just off the Bataan Death March Memorial Highway.
Quote from: quiller on December 08, 2015, 05:07:51 PM
And as Rompin' Ronnie Reagan said, you old coot, "There you go again!" :wink:
Yeah! That is a shortcoming of mine.
QuoteHarry S Truman was in fact a Democrat, and the last one we didn't have to apologize for. He knew there are some hard calls no President can avoid, and enemies who will never listen.
While there are traits Ol' Harry had that were laudable, he was not a very good President. Canning MacArthur was probably his finest moment. Getting snookered by Uncle Joe and sending our troops unconstitutionally to Korea was a piss poor decision that cost a lot of good men, materials, and money. Nationalizing, or attempting to, the Railroads, was another bad idea. Continuing to pack the SCOTUS with liberal, basically unqualified Justices, is still creating problems today. Getting pissed because some critic was unfavorable to Margaret was a tad over the top.
In fairness, however, Ol' Harry and Bess left the White House with style and grace, a trait unknown since.
Quite frankly, if I could have met any of the Presidents in my lifetime, and had a beer with him, it would have been Old Harry S.
QuoteTruman would take Obama off to one side and probably rip his throat out.
And that would be his finest moment.
QuoteBut that would be fantasy, for Truman and old-style Democrats are all dead, and so is their idea of patriotism.
Remember us Old Style DIMS, or those of us raised in DIM households, were racists, slavers, Segregationists, and all against Ike and his Invasion of Arkansas. Thank you! Back to your regular programming now. :ttoung:
Quote from: Shooterman on December 12, 2015, 08:26:34 AM
Quite frankly, if I could have met any of the Presidents in my lifetime, and had a beer with him, it would have been Old Harry S.
And he was WWI veteran.
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Having been to most of the Presidential Libraries I will say that Harry's Library was the most surprising. It was unvarnished IMO. It gave the good, bad and ugly of old Harry.
Harry got started in politics through organized crime in Kansas City. He was just a stoolie of sorts but it launched his career. He never wanted or expected to go high in politics but once again he was in the right place at the right time and the VP job fell in his lap as a compromise deal of sorts. Then old FDR up and died on him! :ohmy:
But through it all Harry remained remarkably honest! He went back to Independence with no wealth or desire for fame. He moved back into the old house he and Bess had lived in since their marriage. It had belonged to Bess's Mom. They inherited it. It was just an old frame house... unpretentious!
Times have certainly changed!