Quote from: red_dirt on June 05, 2015, 05:24:01 AM
Are you quite sure you are not thinking of the Ottomans? The British, the Norwegians, the Italians, Germans, Spanish, and French, they were the ones with the ocean going fleets and international communications. What came to be known as the British Empire actually started out as small plantations in far flung tropical islands in the Caribbean and South Pacific.  European influence spread with technology that the world welcomed. I doubt the world has ever seen such improvements in the human condition than over the time period when European culture and language spread out all over the world.

Coincident with those modern developments was the sweeping acceptance of the Protestant Reformation -- God as the authority, not the institutions of man. Freedom. You must have heard. Jesus as the saving grace, not some infant.

Some hold that the root and source of all problems today is the Counter Reformation, or, the unceasing quest to restore global authority to its sixth century root.

http://www.ianpaisley.org/article.asp?artkey=jesuits (http://www.ianpaisley.org/article.asp?artkey=jesuits)

Conquest (and barbarism) is the history of the world!  Civilized society tries it's best to mitigate this primitive human instinct.  The concept of the League of Nations and later the United Nations recognized that civilized soicieties would be far better off getting along together than continuing to do what has always been done.  Kumbya is such a wonderful illusion!

Reality sucks!  That's why those who HOPE & BELIEVE are willing to follow any Leader who promises them the CHANGE they long for.  All the while these TRUE BELIEVERS, share an aversion of accepting reality!  That's why facts matter far less than feelings to the Libtarded Left!

The Bible says there will always be wars and rumors of wars.  I guess if one disregards the truth while chasing rabbits, this insight has no meaning to them.

There is good and evil in this world.  Again and again, the forces of good must be marshalled against the forces of evil, which ultimately, always want to conquer the world...begining with conquoring the niceset; becase evil doers percieve them to be the weakest!

Quote from: wally on June 05, 2015, 06:26:20 AM
There is good and evil in this world.  Again and again, the forces of good must be marshalled against the forces of evil,

There are forces of evil in work right now. Words from american in Donbass (former Ukraine. I hope) :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgB2bhFfEtM

I always felt that when the Soviet Union broke up, they left all those ethnic Russians in the former Soviet republics to provide them with a reason to interfere in their internal affairs. Why not? It worked for Hitler.

Quote from: kalash on June 05, 2015, 10:40:52 AM
There are forces of evil in work right now. Words from american in Donbass (former Ukraine. I hope) :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgB2bhFfEtM

Hmmm, In the sixties I saw a lot of people wearing hats with that little red star, in support of HoChi Mihn, Mao Tse Tung and even Che Gueverra. (and against America and whoever is in charge of our nation)

  I wonder if this is a relic from that era (the guy and the hat) when tragic pictures of the suffering of war were often woven into false narratives for propaganda purposes...  I don't trust Obama... but I don't condemn the United States, as this guy does.  Vladimir Putin was both a Field Agent and former Head of the Soviet KGB.  One of their favorite tactics (now even employed by groups like Hamas (Scumass) ) is to use the back drop of a bombed out building to push a false narrative about inocent civilians they always claim were in this bombed out building.  Who's to say what the truth was!  Him?

Adolph Hitler and the NAZIs' blamed the jews for blowing up the Reichstag (when it was the Nazi's that did it themselves).  Nero blamed the Christians for burning down Rome.  It's a worn out tool!


I don't like commies of any sort; That goes for Obama and "workers of the world" who want to "unite" to support the revolution!  I don't trust anything these people say and am suspicious of everything they do.

This guy is disguised as derelict, but I don't buy it. He posted another You Tube video this week, this one from the hospital, with what is left of the Tev family. It is all very sad. He has removed the red star from his hat. We can assume he is one of the rebels, sympathetic to the Soviet Union.

I'm not going for our Milo as an authoritative source, here. I suspect he has an axe to grind. Everyone knows, if the Irish or anyone else for that matter got their ass kicked they probably had it coming. Those were  the days.  We saw different movies.

My understanding is that Mr. Putin is taking advantage of Obama's (or, America's) lack of character to regain territory. Briefly, Russia genocides the population of West Ukraine and replaces them with Russian Communists. When West Ukraine voted to join the EU, Russia became angry and arranged a revolt. America was criticized for standing by with its hands in its pockets. Obama got a lot of golf in over that time. That was likely a clever jab at white male culture, consistent with his anti-colonial agenda and his weather underground connections, Marxist Jews, anti Capitalists, Anti British Empire, Jesuit Counter Reformationists, and the rest of those A-H who have in common the hatred and resentment of Gringo Culture, you know, plaid or Khaki pants, club blazers, cocktails at the closing bell. 

Soros, by the way, may have more in common with hooded, store front window smashing street dealers than he has with decent hard working Americans. Those are his troops.  Who knows, maybe he's a little light in the loafers, himself. Got a better explanation?  What a grandiose delusion: sell Capitalism short, set out to destroy it. Earn that spot in history, win the World Series of Poker.

This man Peter Poroshenko, referred to repeatedly in the video as a Nazi, is a legally elected president of Ukraine. He wants to put down the revolt and keep options open with the European Union. Putin, in the meanwhile, is making points by cleverly exploiting the confusion in the west created  by Obama in order to redraw old borders. There is no way I am going to believe that V. Putin would be stupid enough to leave the driving to Barack Obama and his collection of mixed race multi cultural, commie clinging,  zero religion misfits, or, the same, at the DNC, which by definition includes  the Clintons. (The Clintons are actually the canaries in the coal mines. They embody the international  measure of depravity.)

I know that is a lot to take in, but if you see any glaring errors, speak right up, plz.

Quote from: red_dirt on June 05, 2015, 03:55:10 PM
I'm not going for our Milo as an authoritative source, here. I suspect he has an axe to grind. Everyone knows, if the Irish or anyone else for that matter got their ass kicked they probably had it coming. Those were  the days.  We saw different movies.

So, you probably don't accuse Hitler for anything either, because those were the days, and Jews had it coming? But Americans adopted The Bill of Rights in 1791, long before the British genocide over the Irish and the German genocide over the Jews. Those were the days, too, when The Bill of Rights was accepted. I sincerely believe in The Bill of Rights, actually that was the way I have been thinking even before I have read it. Those principles are my reference in everything I write. I do what an Enlightener would do. I try to think freely, say what I think, use reason and common sense, question everything. And now, I am being accused of hating the Western civilization and having an axe to grind. All I do is asking how could the Americans, who adopted The Bill of Rights, join in an alliance with the British Empire, I mean in WWI, WWII, and NATO, when the British Empire stands for everything opposite to The Bill of Rights? I would assume the Americans are freedom lovers, and I am confused I hear from the Americans that colonialism is ok. If colonialism is ok, why did the Americans rebel against the British Empire, why didn't they just continue to live happily ever after as a British colony? And actually, I am not attacking colonialism as a phenomenon, I understand European countries were overpopulated and they needed colonies for settlement and cultivation. I am rather reffering to the evil nature of the British Empire, for colonialism is one thing, and another thing is destroying other nations on purpose, as they did. And they have targeted freedom-loving nations, like the Irish and the Serbs, which both belong to the Western civilization.

Quote from: red_dirt on June 05, 2015, 05:24:01 AM
Are you quite sure you are not thinking of the Ottomans? The British, the Norwegians, the Italians, Germans, Spanish, and French, they were the ones with the ocean going fleets and international communications. What came to be known as the British Empire actually started out as small plantations in far flung tropical islands in the Caribbean and South Pacific.  European influence spread with technology that the world welcomed. I doubt the world has ever seen such improvements in the human condition than over the time period when European culture and language spread out all over the world.

Coincident with those modern developments was the sweeping acceptance of the Protestant Reformation -- God as the authority, not the institutions of man. Freedom. You must have heard. Jesus as the saving grace, not some infant.

Some hold that the root and source of all problems today is the Counter Reformation, or, the unceasing quest to restore global authority to its sixth century root.

http://www.ianpaisley.org/article.asp?artkey=jesuits (http://www.ianpaisley.org/article.asp?artkey=jesuits)

Yes, I have read even Stalin and Fidel Castro were Jesuits. Jesuits want to infiltrate all governments and Churches to take them over, etc. But, I don't get it what have I to do with the Jesuits, because I am totally opposite to them, I believe in personal freedom and that no man shall control other men, and that is what I'm saying. In my private life, I even question Jesus every day, and I conclude he is right every time. And that is why nobody forced me to believe in him, but it is my free decision. The head of my Serbian Orthodox Church is Jesus Christ. Our Patriarch is just the first among the equals. That is the official attitude of my Church.

Good you mention the Ottomans. British Empire had always supported the Ottoman Empire in the Balkans. Their reason for doing so was to prevent Russian influence in the Balkans. Because British Empire and Russian Empire were always enemies. And Balkan nations have suffered because of the British support to the Ottomans. And now, and unfortunately, the United States are continuing the same politics in the Balkans, because Turkey is their valuable ally in the NATO. But, can you find me any American ideal in NATO? There is no any, because NATO is just an extended British Empire. So, the British Empire has been always our worst enemy, alongside with the Ottoman Empire. Maybe now you will understand better why I hate British Empire that much.

Quote from: red_dirt on June 05, 2015, 03:55:10 PM
Briefly, Russia genocides the population of West Ukraine and replaces them with Russian Communists.
[/b] When West Ukraine voted to join the EU, Russia became angry and arranged a revolt.

"Genocide of population of West Ukraine"?!   What the **** was that?  I don't think you know, that Western Ukraine was affiliated in Soviet Union in 1939? When this "genocide" happened? During the nazi occupation? You blame SU for that?
And this: "When West Ukraine voted to join the EU, Russia became angry and arranged a revolt." I do not even understand , what are you talking about... Maybe you've got it from journalists like this one:
http://blog.fagstein.com/2015/05/23/did-francois-bugingo-make-up-his-international-reporting/

Quote from: milos on June 06, 2015, 12:36:20 AM
So, you probably don't accuse Hitler for anything either, because those were the days, and Jews had it coming? 

There is a term for this kind of device in logic and debate. Can't recall right now. So, tell me, do you still beat your wife?
Incidentally, the excesses against the Irish occurred in 1649-1650 during the Three Kingdoms War. Jesuit Ireland had either butchered or driven some 140,000 Irish Protestants into the sea. When the British Army stepped in, the Jesuits had chased the remaining Protestants into the Northern counties and were in the process of finishing them off.  There's another genocide for your collection.
Did I mention that Irish Royalists were forming on the island in preparation for an invasion of England to exterminate Parliament?  But of course, you knew that.

Quote from: milos on June 06, 2015, 12:36:20 AM
There is no any, because NATO is just an extended British Empire. So, the British Empire has been always our worst enemy, alongside with the Ottoman Empire. Maybe now you will understand better why I hate British Empire that much.

As I say, thank you for stimulating the discussion. There is a wealth of information on this topic, readily available on line, and that's where I have begun to look.  The information is contradictory and complex, but at least the information is presented a statements of position, not propaganda and opinion as it is being presented here.
Nothing personal, Milos, but, are you a Soviet communist working to restore the former union?
If you are, I should think Obama would thrill you and your friends.

Quote from: red_dirt on June 06, 2015, 03:20:22 AM
There is a term for this kind of device in logic and debate. Can't recall right now. So, tell me, do you still beat your wife?
Incidentally, the excesses against the Irish occurred in 1649-1650 during the Three Kingdoms War. Jesuit Ireland had either butchered or driven some 140,000 Irish Protestants into the sea. When the British Army stepped in, the Jesuits had chased the remaining Protestants into the Northern counties and were in the process of finishing them off.  There's another genocide for your collection.
Did I mention that Irish Royalists were forming on the island in preparation for an invasion of England to exterminate Parliament?  But of course, you knew that.

And Hitler would say that Jews have committed a crime over Germans in the way they stolen German wealth, and so Germany had to get rid of them. There is some evidence that German National-Socialists were under Jesuit control, and Heinrich Himmler being the chief Jesuit commander. Vatican and Jesuits have always hated Jews. I am not putting these words into your mouth, of course, it is me who is saying this. Ok, I understand your point, there is a struggle between Catholics and Protestants in the British Isles, similar to one in the Balkans between Orthodox, Catholics, and Muslims. But still I can't justify any kind of genocide.

Quote from: red_dirt on June 06, 2015, 03:20:22 AM
As I say, thank you for stimulating the discussion. There is a wealth of information on this topic, readily available on line, and that's where I have begun to look.  The information is contradictory and complex, but at least the information is presented a statements of position, not propaganda and opinion as it is being presented here.
Nothing personal, Milos, but, are you a Soviet communist working to restore the former union?
If you are, I should think Obama would thrill you and your friends.

Thank you for taking the participation. I try to present facts, but it is always difficult to be completely objective, because I have to look from my perspective. Am I a Soviet communist? OMG, after all I have written. Ask Mr Kalash, ha ha. If I spoke like this on some Russian forum, they would kick me out immediately as an American spy. But Kalash is still my brother, and no one should have any doubts about that. (Lol, it is just now that I have figured out Kalash is short for Kalashnikov.)

If we try to understand current political situation, we must take ourselves far back into history. My knowledge of history may be a bit warped, but I surely know more than an average person. When you mention Western civilization, you have to remember that Western civilization was born in Greece, that is in the Balkans. It was the Ottoman Turkish occupation during the 15th century that brought us back into the stone age. So, Turkey is our worst enemy. Their goal was to conquer Vienna, and it still is, no matter we live in the 21st century. There were two main powers that were helping us to liberate from the Turks. During the 17th and the 18th century it was the Austrian Empire. During the 19th century it was the Russian Empire. Austrian Empire is gone now, but Russia is still there. During the 19th century, Balkan nations were looking into Russia to defeat Turkey, because every Russian victory over Turkey meant more freedom to Balkan nations. And then there was the British Empire, who wanted to prevent Russian Empire from reaching the Black Sea and the Mediterranean Sea. And so there was the Crimean War of 1853-1856, in which Britain and France allied with Turkey in order to prevent Russia from reaching the southern seas. That way, Britain and France worked directly against the interests of the Balkan nations. Exactly the same is happening today. Britain, France, Turkey, are allied into NATO, and they want to prevent Russia from reaching the southern seas. It is all so simple and obvious, and these are not some great words of wisdom, but just simple and obvious facts. And now, you have to put yourself into my perspective of a small Balkan nation. I have NATO, which is supporting Turkey, and is working for the interests of Balkan Muslims who want Turkey back. I mean, we have Muslim soccer fans who are shouting: "This is Turkey! This is Turkey!" on the stadiums. Therefore, NATO can't be my ally. So, my ally must be Russia. I hope you can recognize rational thinking here. I am sorry for Unites States are taking part in NATO, because if United States followed their true reason, they would support freedom of Balkan nations against Turkey.

And, let's look at this situation from the Israeli perspective, for another example. Strong Russia means more security for Israel, too. Because strong Russia means weaker Turkey and weaker Muslims in general. NATO wants to keep peace in the Middle East, but it just doesn't have enough soldiers there for that job. NATO should send like million soldiers or so to be effective, but that is not likely ever to happen. But Russia is there on the borders, and has enough power to keep the Muslims quiet. By weakening Russia, NATO weakens Israel, too, and does a favor to Muslims. I have heard some catastrophic predictions for 2016, that Muslims in the Middle East will manage to unite against Israel, they will destroy it, and Jews will flee into Balkans to find refuge. And then Muslims will try to conquer Europe once again. I don't know if this could ever really happen, but if it does happen, then it would be the guilt of NATO, because by weakening Russia NATO encourages Muslims for an offensive.

Oh, wow, another European poster with an axe to grind about Catholics...in this case Jesuits.

Just WHY are Jesuits so evil, there, Mr. Expert? Go on and 'splain it to us.

Quote from: quiller on June 07, 2015, 07:33:03 AM
Oh, wow, another European poster with an axe to grind about Catholics...in this case Jesuits.

Just WHY are Jesuits so evil, there, Mr. Expert? Go on and 'splain it to us.

I suppose this was addressed to me? It seems I run an axe production center.

First, what are the differences between my Orthodox Christianity and the Catholic one? There are few, but they are important. One is that the Pope has proclaimed himself infallible from errors regarding matters of faith and morals under the protection of the Holy Ghost. But we believe every man is fallible, because every man is sinful, and can't be absolutely protected by the Holy Ghost from errors regarding matters of faith and morals, and that only the God is infallible. The other is that the Catholic Church believes that the Holy Ghost comes from both the Father and the Son, while we believe that the Holy Ghost comes only from the Father. And then, we find that the Catholic Church worships Holy Virgin Mary as a deity, while we consider her just the most pure of all the women. There are also differences in the Church organization. While the Catholic Church is centralised around the Pope, we have many autocephalous Orthodox Churches which are equal among themselves. That is why we never needed Reformation. And when knowing all of these reasons, you can easily assume why we are not fond of the Jesuits, as a kind of Pope's warriors. We believe they tend to infiltrate into other Churches and into governments, in order to adhere them to the Pope.

There is a difference between Catholics and Jesuits. Keeping an eye on the Jesuits does not equate with being anti-Catholic, by any stretch of the imagination.

Religious exclusivists, militarism, infiltrations, subversion, all those things are probably better left to independent study or to dedicated theological study. Those topics likely would not benefit Tea Party goals and aims, and can easily create confusion, especially since they are topics intentionally  clothed in secrecy.

I mentioned Jesuits. I think it was in reference to Milo's steady positive references to the IRA, an organization that has for some time been on the US State Departments list of terrorist organizations, not a distinguished society it itself, that.

Stop!
Don't make me move this again. This is not the religion forum!

Quote from: Solar on June 08, 2015, 05:32:00 AM
Stop!
Don't make me move this again. This is not the religion forum!

However!  http://www.jesuits.org/

This Jesuit distraction *IS* stupid commie propaganda, a long-term assault against Christianity in general and the more activist Jesuit faction among Catholic adult males.

YES, it is a side-issue to the larger argument. It further exposes the bias of this Euro-troll.  Suggest he/she/it gets some real facts on that subject...while, as you say, debating the overall topic.

Quote from: quiller on June 08, 2015, 06:05:27 AM
However!  http://www.jesuits.org/

This Jesuit distraction *IS* stupid commie propaganda, a long-term assault against Christianity in general and the more activist Jesuit faction among Catholic adult males.

YES, it is a side-issue to the larger argument. It further exposes the bias of this Euro-troll.  Suggest he/she/it gets some real facts on that subject...while, as you say, debating the overall topic.

Yes, "social justice" is the religious tie between marxism and religion..... as demonstrated by Jeremiah Wright  AND the Pope....... more explicitly the Jesuit sect.  This Pope is the first Jesuit Pope.

This "social justice" gospel is extremely prevalent in South America!  It is a front for marxism.

This is where it gets dicey...... and sucks in unsuspecting voters.