Quote from: Dan on September 29, 2010, 05:20:04 PM
All Pagan does is throw bombs and make emotional judgments. This guy is a drag on the forum Solar. Just think of all the people who have not enjoyed their experience in the forum today precisely because of this guy. He is a cancer and he will lower the board. When it happens don't say I didn't try to warn you.

Really like your brilliant post

Quote from: Dan on September 28, 2010, 08:04:28 PM
Can you be more specific or is your position that anyone who has been fired is not suitable for public office...


Pagan is just being a snob. Unless you've been fired from Taco Bell like Pagan, then your experience just isn't valid.

FYI Pagan got fired for wearing his hair net in the wrong place.

Still waiting for you to post anything of substance there Slick.

I have been down this road too many times with Pagan to know he isn't going to be serious.

Quote from: Dan on September 29, 2010, 05:23:48 PM
And this is exactly what I was trying to tell
Solar. It's not a matter of debating Pagan because Pagan does not debate. He insults, he attacks strawmen arguments and never deals in details.

Still waiting for you to post something other than insults there Slick ..............  ::)

Quote from: taxed on September 29, 2010, 05:24:03 PM
I have been down this road too many times with Pagan to know he isn't going to be serious.

Well then post something to back up your "opinion".

Why won't you?

Quote from: AmericanFlyer on September 29, 2010, 04:58:38 PM
I'll be happy to............

CLAIM #1: WORKER LAYOFFS

Under Fiorina's Leadership, HP Nearly Doubled Its Number Of Employees Worldwide:

During Fiorina's Tenure As CEO, Hewlett-Packard Increased Its Workforce By Tens Of Thousands Of Employees Worldwide. (Hewlett-Packard, SEC Form 10-K, 2005; Hewlett-Packard, SEC Form 10-K, 1999)

· In October 2005, HP Had Approximately 150,000 Employees Worldwide. (Hewlett-Packard, SEC Form 10-K, 2005)

· In October 1999, HP Had Approximately 84,400 Employees Worldwide. (Hewlett-Packard, SEC Form 10-K, 1999)

HP's Employment At The End Of Carly's Tenure Even Exceeded The 145,000 Combined Workforce At HP And Compaq At The Time Of The Merger. "Based on both companies' last four reported fiscal quarters, the new HP would have approximate pro forma assets of $56.4 billion, annual revenues of $87.4 billion and annual operating earnings of $3.9 billion. It would also have operations in more than 160 countries and over 145,000 employees." (Benjamin Pimentel, "Wall Street Frowns On HP-Compaq Deal," San Francisco Chronicle, 9/4/01)

Since Fiorina's Departure From HP, The Company Has Increased Its Number Of Layoffs:

Shortly After Fiorina's Departure, CEO Mark Hurd Announced An Additional 14,500 Job Cuts, Which Represented 10 Percent Of HP's Workforce. "Hewlett-Packard Co. said Tuesday that it would cut 14,500 jobs, or 10% of its workforce, as the storied computer and printer maker slashes costs to remain competitive in an industry that it helped create. The restructuring, which will be implemented over the next 18 months, is expected to reduce annual expenses at the iconic Silicon Valley company by $1.9 billion. HP employs 58,000 people in the United States — about 9,000 of them in the Bay Area." (Terril Yue Jones, "Hewlett-Packard, A Pioneer In Technology, To Cut 14,500 Jobs," Los Angeles Times, 7/20/05)

"One Of Hurd's First Acts As CEO, In Flush Times, Was To Whack 15,200 Jobs – Then 10% Of The Workforce." (Adam Lashinsky, "Mark Hurd's Moment," Fortune, 3/3/09)

HP Cut A Total Of Nearly 40,000 Jobs After Fiorina Left The Company. "[H]urd will have cut nearly 40,000 jobs in two big rounds of layoffs since he took the job." (Jordan Robertson, "HP Chief Hurd Got Pay Valued At $34 Million In '08," The Associated Press, 1/21/09)

HP Recently Announced 9,000 Additional Layoffs. "Hewlett-Packard Co., the world's largest information-technology company, plans to lay off about 9,000 employees as it tries to cut costs..." (Barbara Ortutay, "Hewlett-Packard To Cut 9K Jobs In Services Unit," The Associated Press, 6/1/10)

Fiorina's HP Layoffs Were Considered Necessary To The Company's Future:

When Fiorina Announced The HP Layoffs, Analysts Claimed That The Cuts Would Help "Invigorate The Company." "Some analysts believe the job cuts could invigorate the company, which has been losing market share in printers, servers and PCs. 'We think it will be a catalyst for adding a sense of urgency to the business, which HP needs,' said Craig Ellis, an analyst with Salomon Smith Barney." (Therese Poletti, "Hewlett-Packard To Cut 6,000 Jobs," San Jose Mercury News, 7/27/01)

CLAIM #2: CARLY'S HP RECORD

Under Fiorina's Leadership, HP's Revenues More Than Doubled:

During Fiorina's Tenure As CEO, Hewlett-Packard's Revenues More Than Doubled. (Hewlett-Packard, HP Annual Report, 2000; Hewlett-Packard, SEC Form 10-K, 2006)

· In 1999, HP's Revenues Were Approximately $42.4 Billion. (Hewlett-Packard, HP Annual Report, 2000)

· In 2005, HP's Revenues Were Approximately $86.7 Billion. (Hewlett-Packard, SEC Form 10-K, 2006)

Since Carly Fiorina's Departure From Hewlett-Packard, Experts Have Credited Her With Making HP A Stronger Company:

Industry Experts Have Claimed That HP "Desperately Needed Someone Like" Fiorina. "But while analysts praise Hurd's low-key style, many are quick to credit Fiorina for laying the groundwork. She was the biggest proponent of changing HP's culture, and although her hard-charging style ultimately worked against her, HP desperately needed someone like her, said Roger L. Kay, president of Endpoint Technologies Associates." (Rachel Konrad, "HP Is Hurd's Now, But Ousted Fiorina Gets Some Credit For Revival," The Associated Press, 8/17/06)

Fortune Noted That HP Can Thank Fiorina For The Company's "Breadth And Depth." "HP recently forecast that sales for 2009 would decline as much as 5%, but Hurd still is projecting a nearly 6% rise in profits. He's using the company's financial strength its balance sheet boasts $11 billion in cash to make acquisitions, like the $13 billion purchase of massive but flabby info-tech consultant EDS in 2008. He's also pushing the notion that customers need not shop anywhere else for their computing, printing, and tech services needs. He can thank his predecessor, Carly Fiorina, for HP's breadth and depth. She was the architect of the tumultuous 2001 acquisition of Compaq." (Adam Lashinsky, "Mark Hurd's Moment," Fortune, 3/16/09)

Endpoint Technologies Associates President Roger Kay: "Carly Deserves Far More Credit Than She Got." "Carly did a lot of the shaking up, which was necessary to get the hidebound organization liquefied again and that left the field open for Mark Hurd to reorganize. The ironic postscript here is that Carly deserves far more credit than she got. ... The idea that the organization needed to be shaken up and be less technology-centric and more customer-centric turned out to be spot on." (Rachel Konrad, "HP Is Hurd's Now, But Ousted Fiorina Gets Some Credit For Revival," The Associated Press, 8/17/06)

Former Intel Chairman Craig Barrett On Carly: "[Carly] Deserves Great Credit For Her Actions While CEO Of HP." "Carly Fiorina, the architect of the HP-Compaq merger and now a candidate for U.S. Senate, deserves great credit for her actions while CEO of HP. She understood the challenges of the marketplace, the dangers of the status quo, and the need for companies to move forward with bold actions to ensure their success." (Craig Barrett, Op-Ed, "History Straightens Out Facts," San Jose Mercury News, 4/4/10)

BARRETT: "Today, HP is a stronger company because of Carly Fiorina's bold action." (Craig Barrett, Op-Ed, "History Straightens Out Facts," San Jose Mercury News, 4/4/10)

The Compaq Merger Has Been Credited With Driving HP's Subsequent Success:

The Compaq Merger Helped HP Surge Past IBM And Dell To Become The World's Number One PC Firm In 2007. "But despite all the naysaying, despite an ugly proxy fight, despite Fiorina's nasty ouster, it looks as if the HP-Compaq merger that closed five years ago this week (May 3) might not have been so dumb after all. Last year, HP surpassed IBM Corp. as the world's biggest technology firm, based on revenue. It also passed Dell Inc. to become the world's No. 1 PC firm." (Bob Keefe and Dan Zehr, "Five Years After Maligned Merger, Hewlett-Packard Prospers," The Atlanta Journal-Constitution, 4/29/07)

The Consensus Regarding The HP-Compaq Merger Is That "The Merger Was Indeed A Good Idea." "In 2001, when Hewlett-Packard's then-CEO Carly Fiorina announced that the technology giant proposed to merge with Compaq Computer Corp., she set off a firestorm of controversy. ... Stockholders as well as the media were fiercely divided on the wisdom of the move. Not any longer. Six years later, after Fiorina's acrimonious 2005 departure – which many attributed largely to the merger – and the promotion of former NCR head Mark Hurd to lead HP, the consensus is that the merger was indeed a good idea." ("Compaq-HP Merger Was Right After All According To Stanford Business School Research," Business Wire, 7/16/07)

According To A Stanford Business School Study, The HP-Compaq Merger "Was Right After All." ("Compaq-HP Merger Was Right After All According To Stanford Business School Research," Business Wire, 7/16/07)

Technology Research Analysts Have Claimed That The Compaq Merger Placed HP "In The Right Place At The Right Time." "According to technology researcher IDC Corp., HP's global shipments of PCs grew by a whopping 28 percent in the first quarter of this year, while Dell's dropped about 7 percent. In the U.S., HP's gains on Dell were even more pronounced. While the PC business is fluid, HP is 'in the right place at the right time,' said IDC analyst Richard Shim. 'If you look at all the favorable trends in the PC industry right now, HP is in the middle of them.'" (Bob Keefe and Dan Zehr, "Five Years After Maligned Merger, Hewlett-Packard Prospers," The Atlanta Journal-Constitution, 4/29/07)

Former Intel Chairman Craig Barrett On The Compaq Merger: "An Unqualified Success." "The merger of HP and Compaq was an unqualified success. It helped transform HP into the largest computer manufacturer in the world and provided a strong foundation for HP's current success under its very capable management team."

In 2009, HP CFO Cathie Lesiak Touted The Compaq Merger At An HP Securities Analyst Meeting. LESIAK: "Here you have a graphical representation of our acquisitions going back to 2001. And building on one of the points Mark made earlier, you can see the strong alignment between our inorganic investments and our company strategy. For example, Compaq's enhanced our scale in industry standard hardware." (Hewlett-Packard CFO Cathie Lesjak, Remarks At A Securities Analyst Meeting, 9/24/09)

Since Their Acquisition Of Compaq In 2002, HP Has Outperformed Dell And The Dow Jones Industrial Index:

Comparison Of HP, Dell, And The Dow Jones Industrial Index:

(Yahoo! Finance Website, finance.yahoo.com, Accessed 9/14/10)

Ignoring this posting won't make it go away, Pagan.

Quote from: Pagan on September 29, 2010, 05:25:38 PM
Well then post something to back up your "opinion".

Why won't you?

I have plenty of stuff to back up why I am not a fan, but I am not interested in that.  I am interested in you backing up your slander of her, since you put it out there.  I didn't slander her. You did.  If you wish to hide behind opinion on the web, then fine.  Otherwise, please give real reasoning to why she is incompetent.

If you slander another human being, then you should support it with your own insight.

Quote from: Pagan on September 29, 2010, 05:24:37 PM
Still waiting for you to post something other than insults there Slick ..............  ::)

I have spent plenty of time giving you details and you've
played the same dishonest game the other guys are talking about. You are a clown. Pagan, if it's possible then take a long, hard look into the mirror. Ask yourself why so many people here express contempt and disrespect for you. And ask yourself why your life is so empty and meaningless that all you have is an online community filled with people who dislike you. Very sad.

Random thought. Why does Pagan view our disinterest and disrespect as some proof that he's won something?

Quote from: AmericanFlyer on September 29, 2010, 05:28:35 PM
Ignoring this posting won't make it go away, Pagan.

No link eh?  OK

Well back at you neither will ignoring this will make it go away -

Still, over time current CEO Mark Hurd has helped turn the Compaq deal into a success. H-P has leapfrogged Dell as the world's largest PC maker, and its shares have doubled since Fiorina's ouster in 2004. Robert Burgelman, Professor of Management at Stanford University's Graduate School of Business, largely credited Hurd (not Fiorina) for helping turn the deal around in a 2007 interview with Deal Journal.
http://blogs.wsj.com/deals/2010/06/09/ranking-carly-fiorina-and-meg-whitman-as-deal-makers/

The nation's worst CEOs
http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/p85059.asp

The Worst CEO's Ever
http://www.businessinsider.com/worst-ceos-ever-2009-6

Can Fiorina trump competition for 'worst tech CEO' title
http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/technology/maney/2005-02-15-maney_x.htm

Portfolio's Worst American CEOs of All Time
http://www.cnbc.com/id/30502091/Portfolio_s_Worst_American_CEOs_of_All_Time

So HP's Board, Investors and the general business community are just in a "Left Wing" Conspiracy to trash her then?

Why does Pagan like spending so much time annoying people who do not like him or want to be around him? You would think the guy had some RL friends or RL activities that might compete for some of his time. Very sad.

Quote from: Dan on September 29, 2010, 05:35:31 PM
I have spent plenty of time giving you details and you've
played the same dishonest game the other guys are talking about. You are a clown. Pagan, if it's possible then take a long, hard look into the mirror. Ask yourself why so many people here express contempt and disrespect for you. And ask yourself why your life is so empty and meaningless that all you have is an online community filled with people who dislike you. Very sad.

Really?

OK if you say so, only thing you've spewed out that pie hole is insults.

You did bitch about your so called "points" which you spewed with your "post 65" and I responded specifically with

Quote from: Pagan on September 29, 2010, 01:51:34 PM
Well let's see I posted some specifics about Fiorina, oh yeah you edited them out.

So here it is again

She was fired specifically for Incompetence and is listed as one of the WORST CEO's in American history.  This is from the Business community there Slick.  You know if you could just put in a minimal amount off effort instead of Parroting what you're told it's right there in your face.

As for Obama ............ well please show me one single positive point I've made with the Obama regime?

So where's your specifics there slick?

Quote from: Dan on September 29, 2010, 05:48:33 PM
Why does Pagan like spending so much time annoying people who do not like him or want to be around him? You would think the guy had some RL friends or RL activities that might compete for some of his time. Very sad.

Still nothing but personal insults, come on Slick care to provide any credible points or are you just going to spew nothing but personal insults out that Pie Hole of yours?

Come on Slick

You never responded to my posts. That's why I no longer think you are worth the effort needed for a serious conversation. And it's not just me Pagan. Taxed and Solar and Walkstall all called you out too.

You are a joke and a dishonest one at that. You haven't proven anything. You haven't won anything. All you have done is convince one more person what a monumental waste of time you are.

Why do you come here? I'm genuinely curious

Quote from: Dan on September 29, 2010, 06:32:17 PM
You never responded to my posts. That's why I no longer think you are worth the effort needed for a serious conversation. And it's not just me Pagan. Taxed and Solar and Walkstall all called you out too.

You are a joke and a dishonest one at that. You haven't proven anything. You haven't won anything. All you have done is convince one more person what a monumental waste of time you are.

Why do you come here? I'm genuinely curious

Really?

So was it any of these post's that I so called "You never responded to my posts."

Quote from: Pagan on September 29, 2010, 01:51:34 PM
Well let's see I posted some specifics about Fiorina, oh yeah you edited them out.

So here it is again

She was fired specifically for Incompetence and is listed as one of the WORST CEO's in American history.  This is from the Business community there Slick.  You know if you could just put in a minimal amount off effort instead of Parroting what you're told it's right there in your face.

As for Obama ............ well please show me one single positive point I've made with the Obama regime?

Quote from: Pagan on September 29, 2010, 03:58:17 PM
So because I'm frustrated that the GOP puts up a pathetic candidate to challenge Boxer and don't just immediate Parrot Obama slams in blind support of a Fiorina I'm a liberal?

As for coward, I sure haven't been the one editing posts of those with differing opinions.   ::)

Quote from: Pagan on September 29, 2010, 04:00:37 PM
Really?

So 20 years working with HP professionally and the opinions those in the business world mean nothing then?

So Slick, instead of insults why don't you tell me why Fiorina was fired for incompetence eh?

Quote from: Pagan on September 29, 2010, 05:23:52 PM
Really like your brilliant post

Still waiting for you to post anything of substance there Slick.

Which one theses so called "You never responded to my posts." that I never responded to Slick?

Taxed, Solar and Walkstall have expressed their "opinions" and so have I.  I've also backed up my personal "opinions" by credible sources who agree with my opinions.

Come on Slick, care to post anything credible or you just going to stick with the lame personal insults?

Oh and your comment about me getting fired from "Taco Bell", challenge still stands to compare resumes there Slick.  You up for it or you just going to spew random personal insults eh?

You seriously are a pathetic PoS.

Pagan, we've all given up on you. That's why we just don't give a shit what you say anymore. The only reason I'm here is to keep telling you how much you suck. Past that I really don't care.