Personally, I am pretty convinced that Iraq was a war for Israel, Saddam had the 2nd largest military in the Middle East (After Israel), Israel has a history of trying to get US to fight its wars (USS Liberty, Lavon Affair, AIPAC, etc.) That being said, do you think Israel will succeed in getting USA to fight another one of its wars? :confused:
Quote from: Libertarian on August 02, 2012, 07:30:55 AM
Personally, I am pretty convinced that Iraq was a war for Israel, Saddam had the 2nd largest military in the Middle East (After Israel), Israel has a history of trying to get US to fight its wars (USS Liberty, Lavon Affair, AIPAC, etc.) That being said, do you think Israel will succeed in getting USA to fight another one of its wars? :confused:
But, of course.
(https://conservativepoliticalforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ft3.gstatic.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AANd9GcSUcJ0O2r_pqyrL5OhSlgWPOgk77K1-7BRVdb8WbFxI8c__dgIBag&hash=0833cd9fe5ebcf3021b4a9102654eef0b2519c75)
Last time I checked, Israel doesn't need the US or anyone else to fight its wars. It's almost fun to imagine an actual war between Israel and Iran, or even Israel and Saddam's Iraq. I mean, Israel fights wars like Mike Tyson used to "box" in his prime. BOOM, lights out. Remember the one that ended up being called the "Six-Day War?" Six DAYS??!! Against THREE attacking opponents??!!
Way back in 1967, Israel went through the combined military forces of Egypt, Jordan, and Syria faster than Hitler tore through nearly-defenseless Poland in 1939. Israel buys the finest air-superiority fighter jets on Earth from the US... and makes improvements on them. When you live in a neighborhood where every single neighbor you have has publicly declares that you literally have no right to exist, you learn how to fight.
Quote from: tbone0106 on August 02, 2012, 09:39:48 AM
Last time I checked, Israel doesn't need the US or anyone else to fight its wars. It's almost fun to imagine an actual war between Israel and Iran, or even Israel and Saddam's Iraq. I mean, Israel fights wars like Mike Tyson used to "box" in his prime. BOOM, lights out. Remember the one that ended up being called the "Six-Day War?" Six DAYS??!! Against THREE attacking opponents??!!
Way back in 1967, Israel went through the combined military forces of Egypt, Jordan, and Syria faster than Hitler tore through nearly-defenseless Poland in 1939. Israel buys the finest air-superiority fighter jets on Earth from the US... and makes improvements on them. When you live in a neighborhood where every single neighbor you have has publicly declares that you literally have no right to exist, you learn how to fight.
I agree, the Six Day War was a one of the most decisive wars ever in history. However, Israel doesn't buy weapons from the US, they get free weapons paid by American taxpayers. Yes, they are not recognized by their neighbors, but 100 years ago Palestinians were in control and lived in modern day Israel, the Zionists had not colonized the region yet.
Quote from: Libertarian on August 02, 2012, 10:03:44 AM
I agree, the Six Day War was a one of the most decisive wars ever in history. However, Israel doesn't buy weapons from the US, they get free weapons paid by American taxpayers. Yes, they are not recognized by their neighbors, but 100 years ago Palestinians were in control and lived in modern day Israel, the Zionists had not colonized the region yet.
Ya know, you're really starting to like like a troll with this Bull Shit!!!
Learn some Fuckin History! !!
http://www.torontosun.com/2011/12/16/newts-unpopular-truth-palestine-wasnt-even-a-country-100-years-ago (http://www.torontosun.com/2011/12/16/newts-unpopular-truth-palestine-wasnt-even-a-country-100-years-ago)
Quote from: Solar on August 02, 2012, 10:14:46 AM
Ya know, you're really starting to like like a troll with this Bull Shit!!!
Learn some Fuckin History! !!
http://www.torontosun.com/2011/12/16/newts-unpopular-truth-palestine-wasnt-even-a-country-100-years-ago (http://www.torontosun.com/2011/12/16/newts-unpopular-truth-palestine-wasnt-even-a-country-100-years-ago)
(https://conservativepoliticalforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi93.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl60%2Fvenus160%2FFunny%2FOUCH.gif&hash=ed579bb442886441f87f2835ef5027acf2002717)
Quote from: walkstall on August 02, 2012, 11:10:47 AM
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:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Sometimes inflicted pain is the only way for some people to learn.
I've come to the conclusion that attempting to impart any knowledge to this mindless bigot is simply an exercise in futility. Libertarian anti-Semite not only doesn't know, he doesn't want to learn.
Quote from: mdgiles on August 03, 2012, 10:25:52 AM
I've come to the conclusion that attempting to impart any knowledge to this mindless bigot is simply an exercise in futility. Libertarian anti-Semite not only doesn't know, he doesn't want to learn.
Why ruin a perfectly good indoctrinating brainwash of years in the making.
If he actually learned the truth, he'd have to look back at all that time spent swallowing lies, it ain't like finding out Santa wasn't real. He's based his entire political conviction on hating the Jooos, then to find out the problem is actually the Muscums fault, that's a lot to absorb in one setting. :biggrin:
With Iran and other jihadist quickly approaching nuclear capabilities we might not have to go to war with Iran for Israel, but for the entire free world. These terrorist states have expressed countless times their desire to wipe Israel of the map. With conventional tactics impossible, with nukes maybe. Imagine hundreds of low yield nukes being distributed to hard core jihadists throughout the world. Not only Israel, but other "INFIDEL!!" nations will be at risk. For example, the U.S. and Russia during the cold war neither side wanted to use nukes, so no one did. Islamofacsist states want to use these devices, and if allowed they will, threatening the U.S., the U.K., etc.
Quote from: walkstall on August 02, 2012, 11:10:47 AM
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I just found a new avatar! :cool:
Quote from: Ford289HiPo on August 05, 2012, 06:53:36 PM
I just found a new avatar! :cool:
(https://conservativepoliticalforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi14.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa303%2Flizza-y333%2Fmy%2520smileys%2Fhaha.gif&hash=c5c316bb4df34f4515796cb45b65add9152018f5) :thumbup:
Wow, how many Israel threads, and what do you know, the same sanctimonious tripe from the same person on this one too.
The answer to that question is %100 dependant on November. If Obama wins (heaven help us) no, we won't. Obama and his administration are not even willing to say what the capital of Israel is, Obama won't visit Israel, and, as far as I know, can not even lower himself to offer solace to them when something like a bus bombing happens.
If Romney wins, the chances of us at least offering support are much greater, though I could see the UN denouncing us for it (not that that would necessarily stop us).
Quote from: JustKari on August 05, 2012, 07:57:04 PM
Wow, how many Israel threads, and what do you know, the same sanctimonious tripe from the same person on this one too.
The answer to that question is %100 dependant on November. If Obama wins (heaven help us) no, we won't. Obama and his administration are not even willing to say what the capital of Israel is, Obama won't visit Israel, and, as far as I know, can not even lower himself to offer solace to them when something like a bus bombing happens.
If Romney wins, the chances of us at least offering support are much greater, though I could see the UN denouncing us for it (not that that would necessarily stop us).
If Obama loses, I suspect that his next gig, will be at the UN. I expect that the US will be denounced on a regular basis.
Quote from: Solar on August 03, 2012, 02:42:33 PM
Why ruin a perfectly good indoctrinating brainwash of years in the making.
If he actually learned the truth, he'd have to look back at all that time spent swallowing lies, it ain't like finding out Santa wasn't real. He's based his entire political conviction on hating the Jooos, then to find out the problem is actually the Muscums fault, that's a lot to absorb in one setting. :biggrin:
Actually I do not like Islam, however I am more critical of Israel because it is Israel that gets all our tax dollars, free military equipment, we use our UN power for Israel, etc. If we did the same for Saudi (which we do to some extent) I would be just as critical of Saudi.
Quote from: Libertarian on August 06, 2012, 05:57:29 PM
Actually I do not like Islam, however I am more critical of Israel because it is Israel that gets all our tax dollars, free military equipment, we use our UN power for Israel, etc. If we did the same for Saudi (which we do to some extent) I would be just as critical of Saudi.
Out of all the threads, and you respond to this one?
Try this one.
Quote from: Libertarian on August 02, 2012, 10:03:44 AM
I agree, the Six Day War was a one of the most decisive wars ever in history. However, Israel doesn't buy weapons from the US, they get free weapons paid by American taxpayers. Yes, they are not recognized by their neighbors, but 100 years ago Palestinians were in control and lived in modern day Israel, the Zionists had not colonized the region yet.
And my response was that you need to learn a little bit of history.
The answer is literally in the link., read it!
http://www.torontosun.com/2011/12/16/newts-unpopular-truth-palestine-wasnt-even-a-country-100-years-ago (http://www.torontosun.com/2011/12/16/newts-unpopular-truth-palestine-wasnt-even-a-country-100-years-ago)
Quote from: Libertarian on August 06, 2012, 05:57:29 PM
Actually I do not like Islam, however I am more critical of Israel because it is Israel that gets all our tax dollars, free military equipment, we use our UN power for Israel, etc. If we did the same for Saudi (which we do to some extent) I would be just as critical of Saudi.
You better start being critical. We do the same for Saudi, and then some. If I had my druthers, I would have invaded Saudi instead of Iraq.
Quote from: Ford289HiPo on August 06, 2012, 08:20:36 PM
You better start being critical. We do the same for Saudi, and then some. If I had my druthers, I would have invaded Saudi instead of Iraq.
Not to mention Egypt.
Quote from: Ford289HiPo on August 06, 2012, 08:20:36 PM
You better start being critical. We do the same for Saudi, and then some. If I had my druthers, I would have invaded Saudi instead of Iraq.
Bingo!!! That's where this radical movement started.
You better don't.
The Iranians are pretty proud people, many of the younger, educated ones even pretty much agreeing on western values.
If you'd attack them, it would cost billions and billions and nobody would be winning anything, I think.
In my opinion America needs to be a role model for the world again, not some angry powerhouse. Nothing against hard power, but there are times where soft power just works better and costs less.
Seriously, I'm worried seeing America NOT being "#1" in more and more categories, but Americans seeming to fail to notice that. Don't get me wrong, I know what's still right with the US, to me it's the greatest experiment in the history of mankind and I think its foundations are brilliant. I love it and I'll be moving to the US at some point because I can't help but wanting to. But that's not how the majority of the world sees the US today, you know?
You know the sympathy of under-dogs who are right. So maybe you should play that card more than the "we're the power house and we could kick your a**" card. But that's just my opinion.
Quote from: Foreigner on August 22, 2012, 07:28:40 PM
You better don't.
The Iranians are pretty proud people, many of the younger, educated ones even pretty much agreeing on western values.
If you'd attack them, it would cost billions and billions and nobody would be winning anything, I think.
In my opinion America needs to be a role model for the world again, not some angry powerhouse. Nothing against hard power, but there are times where soft power just works better and costs less.
Seriously, I'm worried seeing America NOT being "#1" in more and more categories, but Americans seeming to fail to notice that. Don't get me wrong, I know what's still right with the US, to me it's the greatest experiment in the history of mankind and I think its foundations are brilliant. I love it and I'll be moving to the US at some point because I can't help but wanting to. But that's not how the majority of the world sees the US today, you know?
You know the sympathy of under-dogs who are right. So maybe you should play that card more than the "we're the power house and we could kick your a**" card. But that's just my opinion.
The Iranian people hate their leadership. Why do you think they would be willing to die for them? And pride is all well and good; but it doesn't do squat for you when the other guy has better equipment and training. The Japanese in WW2 were proud. How did that turn out again?
Quote from: mdgiles on August 23, 2012, 12:08:04 PM
The Iranian people hate their leadership. Why do you think they would be willing to die for them?
The young Iranians see and want western culture. They want the music, the TV shows, the clothes, everything which we take for granted, but is denied to them by some old smelly mullahs who continually try to shove the Koran down their throats. OTOH - they are also very nationalistic. They wouldn't hesitate to take up arms against an invader.
Yeah, we may have better equipment, but Iran is 3x the size of Iraq, and look at the problems we had there.
Quote from: Libertarian on August 06, 2012, 05:57:29 PM
Actually I do not like Islam, however I am more critical of Israel because it is Israel that gets all our tax dollars, free military equipment, we use our UN power for Israel, etc. If we did the same for Saudi (which we do to some extent) I would be just as critical of Saudi.
That's how you decide whom to criticize? Are you serious? You criticize anyone/everyone who receives US aid, for that reason alone?
Boy, that's deep. :glare:
Quote from: Ford289HiPo on August 23, 2012, 07:55:06 PM
The young Iranians see and want western culture. They want the music, the TV shows, the clothes, everything which we take for granted, but is denied to them by some old smelly mullahs who continually try to shove the Koran down their throats. OTOH - they are also very nationalistic. They wouldn't hesitate to take up arms against an invader.
Yeah, we may have better equipment, but Iran is 3x the size of Iraq, and look at the problems we had there.
Exactly. Glad that there are people here who aren't completely nuts.
Quote from: mdgiles on August 23, 2012, 12:08:04 PM
The Iranian people hate their leadership. Why do you think they would be willing to die for them? And pride is all well and good; but it doesn't do squat for you when the other guy has better equipment and training. The Japanese in WW2 were proud. How did that turn out again?
Most guys here hate Obama. What do you think they would do if the freaking Iranians would invade the U.S.?
Quote from: Foreigner on August 30, 2012, 09:15:36 PM
Exactly. Glad that there are people here who aren't completely nuts.
Most guys here hate Obama. What do you think they would do if the freaking Iranians would invade the U.S.?
Comparison does not stick. We dont want anything as an American people that Iranians offer. No matter who our president is, we do not share Iranian ideals and that would bring us together int he common defense.
Quote from: For Liberty on August 30, 2012, 09:45:22 PM
Comparison does not stick. We dont want anything as an American people that Iranians offer. No matter who our president is, we do not share Iranian ideals and that would bring us together int he common defense.
If you think there wouldn't be a common defense, try and attack Iran. You're gonna be surprised how irrational people can be and how common their defense would be.
Quote from: Foreigner on August 30, 2012, 11:01:53 PM
If you think there wouldn't be a common defense, try and attack Iran. You're gonna be surprised how irrational people can be and how common their defense would be.
Why do you assume that some one would fight to support a regime they hate, and against people come to liberate you from that regime.
Quote from: mdgiles on August 31, 2012, 10:11:09 AM
Why do you assume that some one would fight to support a regime they hate, and against people come to liberate you from that regime.
That's where their nationalism comes in. Yes, they hate the mullahs. The Iranians are also very nationalistic, and they have the history to prove it.
We can support their anti-government movements, but the moment we drop one bomb on Iranian soil, the moment one of their relatives dies by an American hand, the ME will explode. Iran is not Iraq. Iran does have the means to make an invasion a very expensive exercise, more-so than Iraq ever did.
An extended military strikes by the U.S. alone or in concert with Israel could destroy or severely damage the six most important nuclear facilities in Iran. An Israeli attack, would delay the operation by two years, while more sophisticated U.S. capabilities would take it out for up to four years. To prevent the Iranians from restarting, the U.S. would need to conduct a significantly expanded air and sea war over a prolonged period of time, likely several years.
If the goal is regime change, it would probably require the use of ground forces to occupy Iran. That would mean a commitment of resources and personnel greater than what the U.S. has expended over the last 10 years in the Iraq and Afghanistan wars combined.
Whatever course is chosen, most Intel experts conclude an attack on Iran would ensure retaliation. They anticipate efforts to close the Strait of Hormuz for days or weeks, with global economic implications, and asymmetrical attacks using surrogates such as Hezbollah on U.S. facilities in the region and beyond. Conceivably, it could set off a regional war, as the "spin" would be seen as an attack on Islam and not specifically that of a rogue nation.
Finally, I agree with many of the posts which have concluded strong nationalism, combined with a high degree of fanaticism. However, regardless of the risks involved, President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad does not recognize Israel as a sovereign state and has vowed that Israel "will disappear."
The Answer: crippling economic sanctions, credible threat of military action, and a policy of internal regime change can prevent Iran from actually developing a nuclear weapon or having a nuclear weapons capability; operating together, they can make actual military action unnecessary by either Jerusalem or Washington.
On the current trajectory, without U.S. or Israeli military action or regime change from within, Iran will likely obtain nuclear weapons. It will be emboldened, as will its terrorist proxies. A cascade of proliferation in one of the world's most unstable regions will likely follow. U.S. interests will be severely undermined.
Quote from: Dapplin on September 25, 2012, 05:51:25 PM
An extended military strikes by the U.S. alone or in concert with Israel could destroy or severely damage the six most important nuclear facilities in Iran. An Israeli attack, would delay the operation by two years, while more sophisticated U.S. capabilities would take it out for up to four years. To prevent the Iranians from restarting, the U.S. would need to conduct a significantly expanded air and sea war over a prolonged period of time, likely several years.
If the goal is regime change, it would probably require the use of ground forces to occupy Iran. That would mean a commitment of resources and personnel greater than what the U.S. has expended over the last 10 years in the Iraq and Afghanistan wars combined.
Whatever course is chosen, most Intel experts conclude an attack on Iran would ensure retaliation. They anticipate efforts to close the Strait of Hormuz for days or weeks, with global economic implications, and asymmetrical attacks using surrogates such as Hezbollah on U.S. facilities in the region and beyond. Conceivably, it could set off a regional war, as the "spin" would be seen as an attack on Islam and not specifically that of a rogue nation.
Finally, I agree with many of the posts which have concluded strong nationalism, combined with a high degree of fanaticism. However, regardless of the risks involved, President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad does not recognize Israel as a sovereign state and has vowed that Israel "will disappear."
The Answer: crippling economic sanctions, credible threat of military action, and a policy of internal regime change can prevent Iran from actually developing a nuclear weapon or having a nuclear weapons capability; operating together, they can make actual military action unnecessary by either Jerusalem or Washington.
On the current trajectory, without U.S. or Israeli military action or regime change from within, Iran will likely obtain nuclear weapons. It will be emboldened, as will its terrorist proxies. A cascade of proliferation in one of the world's most unstable regions will likely follow. U.S. interests will be severely undermined.
Welcome to the forum Daplin.
I agree in part, but what hasn't been mentioned is the CIA and it's underground operatives, these operatives do a phenomenal job of destabilizing a Govt.
Once that is achieved, they go to work to create unrest in the country, in this case, pitting Suni against Shia, which will be a relatively easy task.
While all of this is under way, you attack and create chaos, the leaders are busy putting out so many fires, that they become overwhelmed, in some cases the military takes control and locks the nation down, causing hatred for the Govt and the military.
Read Sun Tzu if you get a chance, the options and variables to achieve victory are numerous and all in our favor.
Quote from: kramarat on August 06, 2012, 05:23:47 AM
If Obama loses, I suspect that his next gig, will be at the UN. I expect that the US will be denounced on a regular basis.
At which point we should take our money and go home - after we kick the UN to the curb, of course! :wink:
Quote from: mdgiles on September 26, 2012, 11:39:51 AM
At which point we should take our money and go home - after we kick the UN to the curb, of course! :wink:
Of course. Since we fund most of the criminal enterprise we call the UN, we should have pulled out a long time ago.
Quote from: kramarat on September 26, 2012, 12:09:27 PM
Of course. Since we fund most of the criminal enterprise we call the UN, we should have pulled out a long time ago.
Amen, brother. Pass the ammunition. :tounge: :tounge: :tounge:
Absolutely we will. We will claim that is not the reason but the jewish lobby will make it happen and in reality we only have on firend in the middle east and it is Israel. If we had not stopped drilling for oil, promoted the new pipe line so we could get near energy independence we might we able to stay of of the ME but we need the oil.