Conservative Political Forum

General Category => War Forum => Topic started by: Bronx on February 25, 2021, 10:10:11 PM

Title: US admits F-35 failed to replace F-16 as planned, needs new fighter jet
Post by: Bronx on February 25, 2021, 10:10:11 PM
What's wrong with the F-22.....?

Now I admit I'm not an Airforce guy with that being said I thought the F-22 was the cats meow.

US admits F-35 failed to replace F-16 as planned, needs new fighter jet

Going back to the drawing board again could see the ageing F-16's replaced in 2040, once they're 60 years old.
The United States Air Force announced the need for a new multi-use fighter jet to replace its aging F-16 fleet, while stressing that it would not feature the same high-price tag and technological prowess of the F-35.

The announcement, made by Air Force Chief of Staff General Charles Brown came as a surprise to defence analysts, given that the F-35 was pegged as the modern fifth generation aircraft that would replace the F-16.

https://www.trtworld.com/magazine/us-admits-f-35-failed-to-replace-f-16-as-planned-needs-new-fighter-jet-44483
Title: Re: US admits F-35 failed to replace F-16 as planned, needs new fighter jet
Post by: Solar on February 25, 2021, 11:20:38 PM
Can you say PORK?
So the claim is? "The F-35 joint strike fighter program is grappling with a shortage of the jet's Pratt & Whitney F135 engine, and it could be months before the situation starts to improve, a defense official said Friday.

The problem, according to the F-35 joint program office, is twofold. First, the F135 Heavy Maintenance Center at Tinker Air Force Base, Okla., has not been able to process engines through scheduled depot maintenance as quickly as projected.

Second, maintainers are discovering "premature distress of rotor blade coatings" in a "small number" of engine power modules, creating more repair work and contributing to the backlog."

https://www.defensenews.com/air/2021/02/12/an-engine-shortage-is-the-newest-problem-to-hit-the-f-35-enterprise/

So we need an entirely new plane because the military has issues with 6 to 7% backlog repair, "POSSIBLY" in the future?

These Marxist scum never cease to amuse with their dirty tricks to bankrupt the country as they line CCP pockets.
Title: Re: US admits F-35 failed to replace F-16 as planned, needs new fighter jet
Post by: ldub23 on February 26, 2021, 01:48:10 AM
Quote from: Solar on February 25, 2021, 11:20:38 PM
Can you say PORK?
So the claim is? "The F-35 joint strike fighter program is grappling with a shortage of the jet's Pratt & Whitney F135 engine, and it could be months before the situation starts to improve, a defense official said Friday.

The problem, according to the F-35 joint program office, is twofold. First, the F135 Heavy Maintenance Center at Tinker Air Force Base, Okla., has not been able to process engines through scheduled depot maintenance as quickly as projected.

Second, maintainers are discovering "premature distress of rotor blade coatings" in a "small number" of engine power modules, creating more repair work and contributing to the backlog."

https://www.defensenews.com/air/2021/02/12/an-engine-shortage-is-the-newest-problem-to-hit-the-f-35-enterprise/

So we need an entirely new plane because the military has issues with 6 to 7% backlog repair, "POSSIBLY" in the future?

These Marxist scum never cease to amuse with their dirty tricks to bankrupt the country as they line CCP pockets.

The military  leadership is indeed  marxist. My first action as dictator would be to tear down the  Pentagon and jail most  of  its  inhabitants.
Title: Re: US admits F-35 failed to replace F-16 as planned, needs new fighter jet
Post by: Hoofer on March 06, 2021, 08:00:15 AM
Just thinking... when was the idea of a Joint Strike Fighter ever a good one?

a "Jack of all Trades is a Master of None."   ...and it cost more to accommodate multiple branches of the military than just produce exactly what each one wanted, at a much cheaper cost.  Interchangeable parts on a plane with so many different functions - what a joke!

Yeah, they wanted to "retire" the A-10 too, other than a Drone, it can lay down more firepower for close air support than anything else, and pretty damn good at just one job!  Or a B52 bomber, or AWACS, one mission, and they do it very well. 

Multi-purpose BS, that's bean-counter talk.
Title: Re: US admits F-35 failed to replace F-16 as planned, needs new fighter jet
Post by: winterset on March 06, 2021, 08:29:18 AM
Quote from: Hoofer on March 06, 2021, 08:00:15 AM
Just thinking... when was the idea of a Joint Strike Fighter ever a good one?

a "Jack of all Trades is a Master of None."   ...and it cost more to accommodate multiple branches of the military than just produce exactly what each one wanted, at a much cheaper cost.  Interchangeable parts on a plane with so many different functions - what a joke!

Yeah, they wanted to "retire" the A-10 too, other than a Drone, it can lay down more firepower for close air support than anything else, and pretty damn good at just one job!  Or a B52 bomber, or AWACS, one mission, and they do it very well. 

Multi-purpose BS, that's bean-counter talk.
Always has been.  Anything ever designed to do multiple different things has failed.

The only replacement we needed was one for the ancient Harriers. That should have been the entire F-35 design criteria.

It just goes to show you how broken the system is that this bloated excrement was ever approved.

There is no reason to replace the F-16's or the F-18's.  They will be fine for at least another 10-15 years with constant upgrades.

That is plenty of time to design new ships that will do what is needed.

This whole obsession with stealth is a major mistake in itself.  Stealth had a limited mission; not useful for general use. You lose too much to maintain stealth.

and as sensors improve there is going to be less and less success as regards stealth.  Instead of concentrating on stealth we should be working harder on ECM and ECCM; that is where the real improvements will come

Title: Re: US admits F-35 failed to replace F-16 as planned, needs new fighter jet
Post by: Hoofer on March 06, 2021, 10:32:53 PM
The Aardvark was an ugly plane - but like a snow plow, clearing the sky & ground of enemy radar, my brother (worked on them), said it did a "hell-of-a-job" for the fighters & bombers following it.

Yeah, so let's just build megawatt radar jamming into *every* plane, and VTOL, cannons like the A10, stealth, etc., it's just insanity to try make a one-size-fits-all aircraft.  Everything has a purpose, IMO, make it highly specialized, deploy and use it wisely.

It would seem, the people chairing the military seats of power, are more political (and liberal) than the guys fighting in the actual conflicts.  Little wonder why kids are leaving after a short hitch, instead of making it a career.
Title: Re: US admits F-35 failed to replace F-16 as planned, needs new fighter jet
Post by: dickfoster on March 08, 2021, 03:02:57 AM
Quote from: Bronx on February 25, 2021, 10:10:11 PM
What's wrong with the F-22.....?

Now I admit I'm not an Airforce guy with that being said I thought the F-22 was the cats meow.

US admits F-35 failed to replace F-16 as planned, needs new fighter jet

Going back to the drawing board again could see the ageing F-16's replaced in 2040, once they're 60 years old.
The United States Air Force announced the need for a new multi-use fighter jet to replace its aging F-16 fleet, while stressing that it would not feature the same high-price tag and technological prowess of the F-35.

The announcement, made by Air Force Chief of Staff General Charles Brown came as a surprise to defence analysts, given that the F-35 was pegged as the modern fifth generation aircraft that would replace the F-16.

https://www.trtworld.com/magazine/us-admits-f-35-failed-to-replace-f-16-as-planned-needs-new-fighter-jet-44483
Hardly a suprize. The F16 was designed from the ground up as an air superority fighter in desperation and to do one job and do it well after the F15 debacle when the brass screwed the pooch on it. The F35 was seen at the onset as a swiss army knife compromise that trys to do many jobs but none of them well. This is not the first time that our military brass has made this mistake and I doubt it will be the last. It seems they gain in grade the further up their asses they can shove their heads. The very same mistake was made with the F4 and earlier aircraft. They simply seem to lack the ability to learn from previous mistakes.
Title: Re: US admits F-35 failed to replace F-16 as planned, needs new fighter jet
Post by: winterset on March 09, 2021, 03:28:39 AM
Quote from: dickfoster on March 08, 2021, 03:02:57 AM
Hardly a suprize. The F16 was designed from the ground up as an air superority fighter in desperation and to do one job and do it well after the F15 debacle when the brass screwed the pooch on it. The F35 was seen at the onset as a swiss army knife compromise that trys to do many jobs but none of them well. This is not the first time that our military brass has made this mistake and I doubt it will be the last. It seems they gain in grade the further up their asses they can shove their heads. The very same mistake was made with the F4 and earlier aircraft. They simply seem to lack the ability to learn from previous mistakes.

Could you tell me what the debacle was about the F-15?

Or did you mean the F-111?
Title: Re: US admits F-35 failed to replace F-16 as planned, needs new fighter jet
Post by: dickfoster on March 09, 2021, 03:51:52 AM
Quote from: winterset on March 09, 2021, 03:28:39 AM
Could you tell me what the debacle was about the F-15?

Or did you mean the F-111?
The F15 became so big heavy and loaded down with bullshit for multiple missions  it wasn't suitable as a dog fighter. F16 development was pushed by a group known as the fighter mafia in order to get a fighter that was actually suitable as a fighter and not a ground support or bomber etc etc etc. AF brass loves to piss away money on big new projects when they have perfecty suitable aircraft already in their inventory. The A10 is a perfect example. Designed and built expressly for the ground support mission its hard to cinceive of a better aircraft in the ground support role yet AF brass has constantly tried to kill it off in order to piss away taxpayer money on costly new programs like the F35 which are inherently inferior to the A10 in the ground support role. They love spending money not their own. If you told them part of the cost of their new program will come out of their retirement benifits and you'd find a group of penny pinching misers develop overnight.
Title: Re: US admits F-35 failed to replace F-16 as planned, needs new fighter jet
Post by: winterset on March 09, 2021, 07:33:08 AM
Quote from: dickfoster on March 09, 2021, 03:51:52 AM
The F15 became so big heavy and loaded down with bullshit for multiple missions  it wasn't suitable as a dog fighter. F16 development was pushed by a group known as the fighter mafia in order to get a fighter that was actually suitable as a fighter and not a ground support or bomber etc etc etc. AF brass loves to piss away money on big new projects when they have perfecty suitable aircraft already in their inventory. The A10 is a perfect example. Designed and built expressly for the ground support mission its hard to cinceive of a better aircraft in the ground support role yet AF brass has constantly tried to kill it off in order to piss away taxpayer money on costly new programs like the F35 which are inherently inferior to the A10 in the ground support role. They love spending money not their own. If you told them part of the cost of their new program will come out of their retirement benifits and you'd find a group of penny pinching misers develop overnight.

The F-15 was designed to be an air superiority fighter.  Which is different then what you are claiming.  IT was meant to be the long range interceptor and escort craft.

And it has been brilliant in that role.

The F-15 and F-16 were always meant for different missions. Now the F-15E which is upgraded as a strike fighter more than an air superiority fighter.

The F-16 was NOT hurriedly put together as you claim.  It was meant to be the light fighter for general purposes and has done rather well at that role for quite a while; as has the F-15. Now the F-22 has taken over the role of air superiority fighter from the F-15. Last I remember is that all operational F-15's were to be upgraded to the E level and used as light bombers.

Though calling a craft that can haul 23,000 lbs payload a light fighter is a bit of a misnomer.  Compared to the B-52 it is though.   
Title: Re: US admits F-35 failed to replace F-16 as planned, needs new fighter jet
Post by: dickfoster on March 09, 2021, 11:10:01 AM
Quote from: winterset on March 09, 2021, 07:33:08 AM
The F-15 was designed to be an air superiority fighter.  Which is different then what you are claiming.  IT was meant to be the long range interceptor and escort craft.

And it has been brilliant in that role.

The F-15 and F-16 were always meant for different missions. Now the F-15E which is upgraded as a strike fighter more than an air superiority fighter.

The F-16 was NOT hurriedly put together as you claim.  It was meant to be the light fighter for general purposes and has done rather well at that role for quite a while; as has the F-15. Now the F-22 has taken over the role of air superiority fighter from the F-15. Last I remember is that all operational F-15's were to be upgraded to the E level and used as light bombers.

Though calling a craft that can haul 23,000 lbs payload a light fighter is a bit of a misnomer.  Compared to the B-52 it is though.   
When the F15 program started it began as a figher but ended up being shoved into multiple roles so it gained weight and size till it became a sorry assed excuse for a fighter which is why the fighter mafia pushed for the F16 to be developed and to practice KISS (keep it simple stupid) and keep it a fighter. In engineering it called mission or feature creep so  by the time you get to the end you have nothing like the product you started out to design and build. Generals are not design engineers nor are many of them endowed with much common in the way of common sense so when it comes to aircraft design they should all be told to sit down and STFU. Actually most of them are politicans more than any thing else so in the end you've got a lot of politicians real ones and some in uniform deciding what and how to build airplanes. And we all know how that works out.
Title: Re: US admits F-35 failed to replace F-16 as planned, needs new fighter jet
Post by: Solar on March 19, 2021, 04:09:48 AM
Think of the F-35 as the AR-15, it is a versatile frame in which to build upon.


The Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II was only the second operational fifth-generation combat aircraft, but it is also essentially three planes in one. In addition to the conventional take-off and landing (CTOL) variant, the F-35A; there is the F-35C, which features larger wings and more robust landing gear, making it suitable for catapult launches and fly-in arrestments aboard naval aircraft carriers.

Then there is the F-35B, which is similar in size to the F-35A variant. However, the F-35B sacrifices about a third of its fuel volume to accommodate its shaft-driven lift fan (SDLF), which allows it to land vertically like a helicopter and take-off from very short runways. The system, which was developed by Rolls-Royce, is a descendant of the Pegasus engine 11-61/F402-RR-408, the most powerful version which is used in the Harrier AV-8B.

The system is comprised of a Rolls-Royce LiftFan, Driveshaft, 3 Bearing Swivel Module (3BSM) and Roll Posts. The LiftFan is capable of delivering 20,000lbf cold thrust and has a 50-inch diameter 2-stage counter-rotating fan that features a thrust vectoring variable area vane box nozzle. In vertical flight (lift-off and landing), the LiftFan produces 29,000 shaft horsepower and is capable of a 95-degree rotation in just 2.5 seconds. For lateral stability and roll control, bypass air from the engine is then used in a roll-post nozzle from each wing; while for pitch control, the areas of the exhaust nozzle and LiftFan inlet are varied while keeping the total lift constant. In 2001, the complete system, known as the Integrated Lift Fan Propulsion System (ILFPS), was awarded the Collier Trophy in 2001.

The ILFPS allows the F-35B to operate from austere or short-field bases as well as a range of air-capable ships near front-line combat zones. It can still take off and land conventionally from longer runways. A downside of this capability is that the LiftSystem components are essentially dead weight during flight and as a result, the aircraft has a smaller internal weapons bay and also carries less internal fuel. However, the F-35B uses the probe-and-drogue method for aerial refueling.

The Lockheed Martin-manufactured multirole fighter features low observable stealth while its active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar technology, and the ability to carry weapons internally enables the F-35B to engage ground targets at long ranges. It has a top speed of Mach 1.6 or 1,200 mph (1.6 times the speed of sound). It has a maximum thrust in excess of 40,000 pounds and an operational range of 900 nautical miles. The F-35B has a max 7G rating.

It features two bays for air missiles and an additional two bays for bombs up to 450kg, while it is also armed with an external 25mm cannon.

The F-35B is replacing the AV-8B Harrier IIs in the Marine Corps inventory, and the new aircraft are being stationed at the first operational F-35B base, Marine Corps Air Station Yuma, Arizona; whilst Marine Corps Air Station Beaufort, South Carolina is where F-35B training is currently taking place.

https://www.19fortyfive.com/2021/03/what-makes-the-f-35b-stealth-fighter-so-special/
Title: Re: US admits F-35 failed to replace F-16 as planned, needs new fighter jet
Post by: winterset on March 19, 2021, 07:17:13 AM
Quote from: Solar on March 19, 2021, 04:09:48 AM
Think of the F-35 as the AR-15, it is a versatile frame in which to build upon.


The Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II was only the second operational fifth-generation combat aircraft, but it is also essentially three planes in one. In addition to the conventional take-off and landing (CTOL) variant, the F-35A; there is the F-35C, which features larger wings and more robust landing gear, making it suitable for catapult launches and fly-in arrestments aboard naval aircraft carriers.

Then there is the F-35B, which is similar in size to the F-35A variant. However, the F-35B sacrifices about a third of its fuel volume to accommodate its shaft-driven lift fan (SDLF), which allows it to land vertically like a helicopter and take-off from very short runways. The system, which was developed by Rolls-Royce, is a descendant of the Pegasus engine 11-61/F402-RR-408, the most powerful version which is used in the Harrier AV-8B.

The system is comprised of a Rolls-Royce LiftFan, Driveshaft, 3 Bearing Swivel Module (3BSM) and Roll Posts. The LiftFan is capable of delivering 20,000lbf cold thrust and has a 50-inch diameter 2-stage counter-rotating fan that features a thrust vectoring variable area vane box nozzle. In vertical flight (lift-off and landing), the LiftFan produces 29,000 shaft horsepower and is capable of a 95-degree rotation in just 2.5 seconds. For lateral stability and roll control, bypass air from the engine is then used in a roll-post nozzle from each wing; while for pitch control, the areas of the exhaust nozzle and LiftFan inlet are varied while keeping the total lift constant. In 2001, the complete system, known as the Integrated Lift Fan Propulsion System (ILFPS), was awarded the Collier Trophy in 2001.

The ILFPS allows the F-35B to operate from austere or short-field bases as well as a range of air-capable ships near front-line combat zones. It can still take off and land conventionally from longer runways. A downside of this capability is that the LiftSystem components are essentially dead weight during flight and as a result, the aircraft has a smaller internal weapons bay and also carries less internal fuel. However, the F-35B uses the probe-and-drogue method for aerial refueling.

The Lockheed Martin-manufactured multirole fighter features low observable stealth while its active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar technology, and the ability to carry weapons internally enables the F-35B to engage ground targets at long ranges. It has a top speed of Mach 1.6 or 1,200 mph (1.6 times the speed of sound). It has a maximum thrust in excess of 40,000 pounds and an operational range of 900 nautical miles. The F-35B has a max 7G rating.

It features two bays for air missiles and an additional two bays for bombs up to 450kg, while it is also armed with an external 25mm cannon.

The F-35B is replacing the AV-8B Harrier IIs in the Marine Corps inventory, and the new aircraft are being stationed at the first operational F-35B base, Marine Corps Air Station Yuma, Arizona; whilst Marine Corps Air Station Beaufort, South Carolina is where F-35B training is currently taking place.

https://www.19fortyfive.com/2021/03/what-makes-the-f-35b-stealth-fighter-so-special/
sounds like a paid announcement by the manufacturer.
Title: Re: US admits F-35 failed to replace F-16 as planned, needs new fighter jet
Post by: winterset on March 19, 2021, 07:18:00 AM
Quote from: dickfoster on March 09, 2021, 11:10:01 AM
When the F15 program started it began as a figher but ended up being shoved into multiple roles so it gained weight and size till it became a sorry assed excuse for a fighter which is why the fighter mafia pushed for the F16 to be developed and to practice KISS (keep it simple stupid) and keep it a fighter. In engineering it called mission or feature creep so  by the time you get to the end you have nothing like the product you started out to design and build. Generals are not design engineers nor are many of them endowed with much common in the way of common sense so when it comes to aircraft design they should all be told to sit down and STFU. Actually most of them are politicans more than any thing else so in the end you've got a lot of politicians real ones and some in uniform deciding what and how to build airplanes. And we all know how that works out.

Have you ever actually talked to any pilots that have flown the F-15?

because they would spit in your face.
Title: Re: US admits F-35 failed to replace F-16 as planned, needs new fighter jet
Post by: dickfoster on March 19, 2021, 08:19:11 AM
Quote from: winterset on March 19, 2021, 07:18:00 AM
Have you ever actually talked to any pilots that have flown the F-15?

because they would spit in your face.

No but I talked to plenty that flew the F4. They were the lucky ones that didn't get their asses shot out of the sky by a MIG.  Where do you think the F16 came from and why?
Title: Re: US admits F-35 failed to replace F-16 as planned, needs new fighter jet
Post by: Solar on March 19, 2021, 09:12:10 AM
Quote from: winterset on March 19, 2021, 07:17:13 AM
sounds like a paid announcement by the manufacturer.
Regardless, it is what it is, a versatile platform designed to accommodate varying needs.
Title: Re: US going back to F15EX...?
Post by: Hoofer on March 20, 2021, 07:15:24 AM
Found this pretty interesting, someone is finally figuring out new technology is expensive!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wh1mAQnz_FU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wh1mAQnz_FU)


But, then there's this new one on the Horizon.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2t7KDrO5j9Y (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2t7KDrO5j9Y)

Glad I'm NOT making those decisions!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voCfhLZHiIs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voCfhLZHiIs)