http://www.thenation.com/article/180466/silence-american-hawks-about-kievs-atrocities# (http://www.thenation.com/article/180466/silence-american-hawks-about-kievs-atrocities#)
"For weeks, the US-backed regime in Kiev has been committing atrocities against its own citizens in southeastern Ukraine, regions heavily populated by Russian-speaking Ukrainians and ethnic Russians. While victimizing a growing number of innocent people, including children, and degrading America's reputation, these military assaults on cities, captured on video, are generating pressure in Russia on President Vladimir Putin to "save our compatriots."
The reaction of the Obama administration—as well as the new cold-war hawks in Congress and in the establishment media—has been twofold: silence interrupted only by occasional statements excusing and thus encouraging more atrocities by Kiev. Very few Americans (notably, the independent scholar Gordon Hahn) have protested this shameful complicity. We may honorably disagree about the causes and resolution of the Ukrainian crisis, the worst US-Russian confrontation in decades, but not about deeds that are rising to the level of war crimes, if they have not already done so..."
Yes it is an atrocity; meanwhile most Americans are focused on thousands of illegal immigrants pouring over our borders and being dumped onto our streets, as well as the VA, IRS, NSA, Obamacare Benghazi and the crisis that is consuming Iraq. The media has not been able to silence those Obama failures/scandals.
The word 'atrocity' is too powerful. It's associated with gassing and biochemical-warfare. If those were happening, and if we had a normal politician as President, America would swoop-down on Kiev hard. But right now, it's Putin's problem. He hasn't been behaving like Счастливый "Любовь к трем апельсинам" , walking the countryside; a friend to all.
Indeed it is Putin's problem and hardly ours.
Rome wanted an Empire and so created a military
to enforce its will. So did Britain, who built a Navy,
allowing it to go anywhere it chose, unopposed.
Our Founders warned us of Empires and entanglements.
But the likes of Woodrow Wilson and George Bush, who
wore their infantile humanitarian impulses on their sleeves,
insisted that we democratize the world. History has duly
recorded the consequences of their idiotic incompetence.
If a nation insists on being the world's policeman, it must
be led by hard and ruthless men of the caliber of Palmerston,
Von Bismarck, MacArthur etc. not buffoons like Wilson and Bush.
As Lord Acton astutely observed,"Good Men (well meaning
busybodies) are never Great."
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2677613/American-military-advisers-masterminding-Ukraines-surge-against-pro-Russian-separatists-bid-expand-Nato-east.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2677613/American-military-advisers-masterminding-Ukraines-surge-against-pro-Russian-separatists-bid-expand-Nato-east.html)
A sign of where Ukrainian conflict could lead? Victims of mortar attack stand before their flaming home, like a scene from the Eastern Front in the Second World War
Quote from: Walter Josh on July 02, 2014, 01:33:42 PM
Indeed it is Putin's problem and hardly ours.
Rome wanted an Empire and so created a military
to enforce its will. So did Britain, who built a Navy,
allowing it to go anywhere it chose, unopposed.
Our Founders warned us of Empires and entanglements.
But the likes of Woodrow Wilson and George Bush, who
wore their infantile humanitarian impulses on their sleeves,
insisted that we democratize the world. History has duly
recorded the consequences of their idiotic incompetence.
If a nation insists on being the world's policeman, it must
be led by hard and ruthless men of the caliber of Palmerston,
Von Bismarck, MacArthur etc. not buffoons like Wilson and Bush.
As Lord Acton astutely observed,"Good Men (well meaning
busybodies) are never Great."
Bush conducted an experiment, we wanted to see if it was possible to remove the usual Middle Eastern dictatorship, and replace it with a democracy; thereby making them less of a future danger to us. The experiment failed, because the first thing they did in the democracy was return to the same old tribalism. Next time there is a terrorist attack - and there will be a next time - we go back to carpet bombing our enemies back to the Stone Age. Something that we've gotten away from since Korea.
Opinion from Internet:
"Now America can keep its economy afloat only by working as "vacuum cleaner", that is causing global capitals to flee to United States. But how to convince holders of the capitals to buy bonds of a stagnant economy? "
According to the expert, the U.S. wants to show the world that in the context of total horror, they are the only island of safety: "Hence the desire to tear Europe on Russian energy, impose sanctions, to burn all that is possible and what is not anywhere in the world. They want war, they want blood on TV, they want at any cost to show everyone around the world need to escape (with money) in the United States."
Quote from: kalash on July 03, 2014, 08:39:51 AM
Opinion from Internet:
"Now America can keep its economy afloat only by working as "vacuum cleaner", that is causing global capitals to flee to United States. But how to convince holders of the capitals to buy bonds of a stagnant economy? "
According to the expert, the U.S. wants to show the world that in the context of total horror, they are the only island of safety: "Hence the desire to tear Europe on Russian energy, impose sanctions, to burn all that is possible and what is not anywhere in the world. They want war, they want blood on TV, they want at any cost to show everyone around the world need to escape (with money) in the United States."
The US has been the safe haven for capital, pretty much since the rest of the world decided to try this insane experiment with socialism. And we don't have to tear other countries to pieces, their leaders - like Putin - pretty much do that themselves. Oh yes, and the Europeans decided to get off Russian fossil fuels, when Putin decided to try and push them around.
Quote from: mdgiles on July 03, 2014, 11:05:10 AM
when Putin decided to try and push them around.
How exactly and when this "pushing around" happen?
US to rev up regime change in Syria
http://blogs.rediff.com/mkbhadrakumar/2014/06/27/us-to-rev-up-regime-change-in-syria/ (http://blogs.rediff.com/mkbhadrakumar/2014/06/27/us-to-rev-up-regime-change-in-syria/)
"...What is abundantly clear is that the US-Saudi 'regime change' agenda in Syria is back on centre stage. Clearly, Putin has a fight on his hands over Syria. But how can Putin possibly let go Ukraine, which is so vital for Russia's long term interests, by turning attention back to Syria? Obama senses that the time has come to take the regime change agenda in Syria to its logical conclusion. The audacity of Obama's hope is such that he hopes to win this chess game both in Syria and in Ukraine."
Quote from: kalash on July 03, 2014, 02:34:01 PM
US to rev up regime change in Syria
http://blogs.rediff.com/mkbhadrakumar/2014/06/27/us-to-rev-up-regime-change-in-syria/ (http://blogs.rediff.com/mkbhadrakumar/2014/06/27/us-to-rev-up-regime-change-in-syria/)
"...What is abundantly clear is that the US-Saudi 'regime change' agenda in Syria is back on centre stage. Clearly, Putin has a fight on his hands over Syria. But how can Putin possibly let go Ukraine, which is so vital for Russia's long term interests, by turning attention back to Syria? Obama senses that the time has come to take the regime change agenda in Syria to its logical conclusion. The audacity of Obama's hope is such that he hopes to win this chess game both in Syria and in Ukraine."
I think you give Obama too much credit. His only goals in Syria and Ukraine is not to allow them to further hurt his polls numbers.
Quote from: supsalemgr on July 04, 2014, 04:06:44 AM
I think you give Obama too much credit. His only goals in Syria and Ukraine is not to allow them to further hurt his polls numbers.
65
I honestly believe his only goal, anywhere, is to make the US look as bad as possible.
Carter was inept, Hussein is pure evil.
Quote from: kalash on July 03, 2014, 02:34:01 PM
US to rev up regime change in Syria
http://blogs.rediff.com/mkbhadrakumar/2014/06/27/us-to-rev-up-regime-change-in-syria/ (http://blogs.rediff.com/mkbhadrakumar/2014/06/27/us-to-rev-up-regime-change-in-syria/)
"...What is abundantly clear is that the US-Saudi 'regime change' agenda in Syria is back on centre stage. Clearly, Putin has a fight on his hands over Syria. But how can Putin possibly let go Ukraine, which is so vital for Russia's long term interests, by turning attention back to Syria? Obama senses that the time has come to take the regime change agenda in Syria to its logical conclusion. The audacity of Obama's hope is such that he hopes to win this chess game both in Syria and in Ukraine."
That line alone raises the question of how disinterested you are over the situation in Ukraine. Ukraine is an independent state, it's none of Putin's business how the Ukrainians act in Ukraine. Unless of course, you believe he should use the existence of ethnic Russians within a neighboring state to interfere in that states affairs - which pretty much puts him on the same level as Hitler with the ethnic Germans in the Sudetenland.
Quote from: kalash on July 03, 2014, 12:27:35 PM
How exactly and when this "pushing around" happen?
Putin says oil wars with Russia will make West bleed.http://rt.com/business/russia-west-oil-prices-136/ (http://rt.com/business/russia-west-oil-prices-136/)
Quote from: mdgiles on July 04, 2014, 06:15:06 AM
Unless of course, you believe he should use the existence of ethnic Russians within a neighboring state to interfere in that states affairs - which pretty much puts him on the same level as Hitler with the ethnic Germans in the Sudetenland.
Really? Hitler comparison? Why not compare it with USA? Or you think US never interfere in other states affairs to protect its citizens?
Quote from: kalash on July 02, 2014, 07:18:54 AM
http://www.thenation.com/article/180466/silence-american-hawks-about-kievs-atrocities# (http://www.thenation.com/article/180466/silence-american-hawks-about-kievs-atrocities#)
"For weeks, the US-backed regime in Kiev has been committing atrocities against its own citizens in southeastern Ukraine, regions heavily populated by Russian-speaking Ukrainians and ethnic Russians. While victimizing a growing number of innocent people, including children, and degrading America's reputation, these military assaults on cities, captured on video, are generating pressure in Russia on President Vladimir Putin to "save our compatriots."
The reaction of the Obama administration—as well as the new cold-war hawks in Congress and in the establishment media—has been twofold: silence interrupted only by occasional statements excusing and thus encouraging more atrocities by Kiev. Very few Americans (notably, the independent scholar Gordon Hahn) have protested this shameful complicity. We may honorably disagree about the causes and resolution of the Ukrainian crisis, the worst US-Russian confrontation in decades, but not about deeds that are rising to the level of war crimes, if they have not already done so..."
We have our own problems. Take care of your own business.
Quote from: The Boo Man... on July 04, 2014, 10:40:03 AM
We have our own problems. Take care of your own business.
No need to become involved here. It would just be another Obama distraction.
Quote from: kalash on July 04, 2014, 10:10:16 AM
Really? Hitler comparison? Why not compare it with USA? Or you think US never interfere in other states affairs to protect its citizens?
Since those states still exist, I guess the US didn't absorb them as Putin is trying to do with the states that used to be members of the old Soviet Union.
Quote from: mdgiles on July 04, 2014, 11:26:23 AM
Since those states still exist, I guess the US didn't absorb them as Putin is trying to do with the states that used to be members of the old Soviet Union.
Are you kidding? So, what happened in 1861-65 in USA?
Putin needs to suffer a similar fate to Mussolini.
Quote from: dashvinny on July 04, 2014, 06:54:20 PM
Putin needs to suffer a similar fate to Mussolini.
I don't wish him harm, I just wish we had a leader that loved our country as much as he does.
Hell, I'd settle for one that isn't trying to destroy it.
Quote from: dashvinny on July 04, 2014, 06:54:20 PM
Putin needs to suffer a similar fate to Mussolini.
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/05/29/VP-Biden-Tells-Air-Force-Cadets-to-Create-a-New-World-Order (http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/05/29/VP-Biden-Tells-Air-Force-Cadets-to-Create-a-New-World-Order)
Biden call for New world order... I guess it' Putin's fault.
Quote from: kalash on July 06, 2014, 09:40:18 PM
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/05/29/VP-Biden-Tells-Air-Force-Cadets-to-Create-a-New-World-Order (http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/05/29/VP-Biden-Tells-Air-Force-Cadets-to-Create-a-New-World-Order)
Biden call for New world order... I guess it' Putin's fault.
It's a delusion all commies share.
Quote from: kalash on July 04, 2014, 04:58:37 PM
Are you kidding? So, what happened in 1861-65 in USA?
Those states that attempted to form the Confederacy, had been organic parts of the US, either from the beginning or had been formed out of US territory. the exception being Texas, who had agreed to the annexation. They also had agreed to the rules of the country they had joined when they ratified the Constitution. BTW, earlier you said this:
QuoteReally? Hitler comparison? Why not compare it with USA? Or you think US never interfere in other states affairs to protect its citizens?
The Separatists in the Ukraine
ARE CITIZENS OF THE UKRAINE, not citizens of the Russian Republic.
Quote from: mdgiles on July 07, 2014, 07:21:04 AM
Those states that attempted to form the Confederacy, had been organic parts of the US, either from the beginning or had been formed out of US territory.
Ukraine was organic part of Russian empire for almost 350 years and in 9-13 century, before mongol invasion, was part one country - Kievan Rus. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kievan_Rus%27 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kievan_Rus%27)
Ukraine in present borders, only exist by the will of russian tzars and soviet leaders. Basically, the whole ukrainian lands were united as result of wars of russian tzars with Poland and Turkey/Crimean khanate. Then Lenin's government add russian Donbass region to Ukraine, in 1939 Stalin add Western Ukraine-Zakapattia, and finally in 1954 Khruschev donate Crimea. So, talking about "organic parts", Ukraine is much more "organic for Russia.
Quote from: kalash on July 07, 2014, 10:00:51 AM
Ukraine was organic part of Russian empire for almost 350 years and in 9-13 century, before mongol invasion, was part one country - Kievan Rus. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kievan_Rus%27 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kievan_Rus%27)
Ukraine in present borders, only exist by the will of russian tzars and soviet leaders. Basically, the whole ukrainian lands were united as result of wars of russian tzars with Poland and Turkey/Crimean khanate. Then Lenin's government add russian Donbass region to Ukraine, in 1939 Stalin add Western Ukraine-Zakapattia, and finally in 1954 Khruschev donate Crimea. So, talking about "organic parts", Ukraine is much more "organic for Russia.
They added those regions after Stalin repopulated much of Ukraine after the Famine he created. However the important thing is that
RUSSIA agreed to those borders, when the Ukraine left the disintegrating Soviet Union. And are you Russians going to give Konigsberg back to the Germans.? How about all the territory north oz the Amur, you stole from China? We could go on for hours about what used to belong to who, three hundred years ago. The fact of the matter is those are the internationally recognized borders of the Ukraine. And I asked before, are you going to use the existence of ethnic Russians in the Baltic states to invade them also.
Quote from: kalash on July 04, 2014, 10:10:16 AM
Really? Hitler comparison? Why not compare it with USA? Or you think US never interfere in other states affairs to protect its citizens?
Actually not usually no, the U.S. government does not do that. Save perhaps when an embassy is attacked, or the United States proper is attacked by someone based in that nation.
Besides given there is no such thing as an "ethnic American" it would be kind of difficult for the United States to do the same don't you think?
Oh that's right, your not really that concerned with facts and the truth, clearly your more interested in how you can go on denigrating the United States. Even if you have to make shit up like "ethnic Americans". Mwhahahaha
Quote from: mdgiles on July 07, 2014, 10:17:42 AM
However the important thing is that RUSSIA agreed to those borders, when the Ukraine left the disintegrating Soviet Union. The fact of the matter is those are the internationally recognized borders of the Ukraine.
Do not expect that once taking advantage of Russia's weakness, you will receive dividends forever. Russian has always come for their money. And when they come - do not rely on an agreement signed by you, that supposed to justify your actions. They are not worth the paper it is written. Therefore, with the Russian is to play fair, or do not play at all.
- Otto von Bismarck
.
Even the most favorable outcome of the war will never lead to the decomposition of the main forces of Russia, which is based on millions of Russian ... The latter, even if they would be broken up by international treaties, they just as quickly will re-connect with each other, like pieces of mercury ...
- Otto von Bismarck
Quote from: kalash on July 07, 2014, 06:05:25 PM
Do not expect that once taking advantage of Russia's weakness, you will receive dividends forever. Russian has always come for their money. And when they come - do not rely on an agreement signed by you, that supposed to justify your actions. They are not worth the paper it is written. Therefore, with the Russian is to play fair, or do not play at all.
- Otto von Bismarck
.
Even the most favorable outcome of the war will never lead to the decomposition of the main forces of Russia, which is based on millions of Russian ... The latter, even if they would be broken up by international treaties, they just as quickly will re-connect with each other, like pieces of mercury ...
- Otto von Bismarck
The Ukraine had a choice - and they wanted out - so did all the other areas that Russia
CONQUERED. The thing is the Soviet Union hadn't succeeded in wiping out their individual cultures. And BTW, the Soviet Union had three representatives the General Assembly, The USSR , Ukraine and Belorussia. There are ethnic Russians scattered through all the former states of the USSR, going to claim them also? Russia is claiming all these countries because they aren't reproducing enough to keep their population up.