I say yes, but then, I admit I carry a positive bias for Japan and it's people.
YOKOHAMA (Reuters) - Japan's Maritime Self Defense Force on Wednesday took delivery of the biggest Japanese warship since World War Two, the Izumo, a helicopter carrier as big as the Imperial Navy aircraft carriers that battled the United States in the Pacific.
The Izumo with a crew of 470 sailors is a highly visible example of how Japan is expanding the capability of its military to operate overseas and enters service as Prime Minister Shinzo Abe seeks lawmaker approval to loosen the restraints of Japan's pacifist post-war constitution.
The 248 meter (813 feet) long Izumo resembles U.S. Marine Corp amphibious assault carriers in size and design but it is designated as a helicopter destroyer, a label that allows Japan to keep within the bounds of a constitutional ban on owning the means to wage war. Aircraft carriers, because of their ability to project force, are considered offensive weapons.
"The vessel can serve in a wide range of roles including peace keeping operations, international disaster relief and aid," Gen Nakatani, Japan's Minister of Defense said standing beside the vessel after a handover ceremony at the Japan United Marine shipyard in Yokohama.
"It also helps improve our ability to combat submarines.
Abe's moves to ease Japan's pacifist constitution and its build up in defense capabilities is unnerving neighbor China.
Japan is also adding longer-range patrol aircraft and military cargo planes to its defense capability, and buying Lockheed Martin F-35 fighter jets, amphibious assault vehicles and Boeing's Osprey troop carrier, which can operate from the Izumo.
The Izumo does not have a catapult necessary to launch fixed-wing fighters, but a planned vertical-take-off-and-landing (VTOL) variant of the F-35 could fly from the Izumo's flight deck.
Based at Yokosuka naval base near Tokyo, also the home port of the U.S. Seventh Fleets carrier battle group, the Izumo will join two smaller helicopters carriers already in service, that are also classed as destroyers.
http://news.yahoo.com/japanese-navy-gets-biggest-flat-top-since-wwii-044524192--sector.html (http://news.yahoo.com/japanese-navy-gets-biggest-flat-top-since-wwii-044524192--sector.html)
Quote from: Solar on March 25, 2015, 07:17:26 AM
I say yes, but then, I admit I carry a positive bias for Japan and it's people.
YOKOHAMA (Reuters) - Japan's Maritime Self Defense Force on Wednesday took delivery of the biggest Japanese warship since World War Two, the Izumo, a helicopter carrier as big as the Imperial Navy aircraft carriers that battled the United States in the Pacific.
The Izumo with a crew of 470 sailors is a highly visible example of how Japan is expanding the capability of its military to operate overseas and enters service as Prime Minister Shinzo Abe seeks lawmaker approval to loosen the restraints of Japan's pacifist post-war constitution.
The 248 meter (813 feet) long Izumo resembles U.S. Marine Corp amphibious assault carriers in size and design but it is designated as a helicopter destroyer, a label that allows Japan to keep within the bounds of a constitutional ban on owning the means to wage war. Aircraft carriers, because of their ability to project force, are considered offensive weapons.
"The vessel can serve in a wide range of roles including peace keeping operations, international disaster relief and aid," Gen Nakatani, Japan's Minister of Defense said standing beside the vessel after a handover ceremony at the Japan United Marine shipyard in Yokohama.
"It also helps improve our ability to combat submarines.
Abe's moves to ease Japan's pacifist constitution and its build up in defense capabilities is unnerving neighbor China.
Japan is also adding longer-range patrol aircraft and military cargo planes to its defense capability, and buying Lockheed Martin F-35 fighter jets, amphibious assault vehicles and Boeing's Osprey troop carrier, which can operate from the Izumo.
The Izumo does not have a catapult necessary to launch fixed-wing fighters, but a planned vertical-take-off-and-landing (VTOL) variant of the F-35 could fly from the Izumo's flight deck.
Based at Yokosuka naval base near Tokyo, also the home port of the U.S. Seventh Fleets carrier battle group, the Izumo will join two smaller helicopters carriers already in service, that are also classed as destroyers.
http://news.yahoo.com/japanese-navy-gets-biggest-flat-top-since-wwii-044524192--sector.html (http://news.yahoo.com/japanese-navy-gets-biggest-flat-top-since-wwii-044524192--sector.html)
:lol:
Who needs a catapult when you have F 35.
F-35 Unintended loop right off the carrier deck during vertical take-off .
F-35 Unintended loop right off the carrier deck during vertical take-off (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQb02O2CG9w#)
Quote from: Solar on March 25, 2015, 07:17:26 AM
I say yes, but then, I admit I carry a positive bias for Japan and it's people.
YOKOHAMA (Reuters) - Japan's Maritime Self Defense Force on Wednesday took delivery of the biggest Japanese warship since World War Two, the Izumo, a helicopter carrier as big as the Imperial Navy aircraft carriers that battled the United States in the Pacific.
The Izumo with a crew of 470 sailors is a highly visible example of how Japan is expanding the capability of its military to operate overseas and enters service as Prime Minister Shinzo Abe seeks lawmaker approval to loosen the restraints of Japan's pacifist post-war constitution.
The 248 meter (813 feet) long Izumo resembles U.S. Marine Corp amphibious assault carriers in size and design but it is designated as a helicopter destroyer, a label that allows Japan to keep within the bounds of a constitutional ban on owning the means to wage war. Aircraft carriers, because of their ability to project force, are considered offensive weapons.
"The vessel can serve in a wide range of roles including peace keeping operations, international disaster relief and aid," Gen Nakatani, Japan's Minister of Defense said standing beside the vessel after a handover ceremony at the Japan United Marine shipyard in Yokohama.
"It also helps improve our ability to combat submarines.
Abe's moves to ease Japan's pacifist constitution and its build up in defense capabilities is unnerving neighbor China.
Japan is also adding longer-range patrol aircraft and military cargo planes to its defense capability, and buying Lockheed Martin F-35 fighter jets, amphibious assault vehicles and Boeing's Osprey troop carrier, which can operate from the Izumo.
The Izumo does not have a catapult necessary to launch fixed-wing fighters, but a planned vertical-take-off-and-landing (VTOL) variant of the F-35 could fly from the Izumo's flight deck.
Based at Yokosuka naval base near Tokyo, also the home port of the U.S. Seventh Fleets carrier battle group, the Izumo will join two smaller helicopters carriers already in service, that are also classed as destroyers.
http://news.yahoo.com/japanese-navy-gets-biggest-flat-top-since-wwii-044524192--sector.html (http://news.yahoo.com/japanese-navy-gets-biggest-flat-top-since-wwii-044524192--sector.html)
I agree Japan should do more for their own protection as should South Korea and Germany. What is not stated by Japan is that they don't think they can depend on America as long as Obama is in charge.
Quote from: supsalemgr on March 25, 2015, 09:43:13 AM
I agree Japan should do more for their own protection as should South Korea and Germany. What is not stated by Japan is that they don't think they can depend on America as long as Obama is in charge.
It is not that they "don't think," it's more like they know they can not depend on b o.
Quote from: supsalemgr on March 25, 2015, 09:43:13 AM
I agree Japan should do more for their own protection as should South Korea and Germany. What is not stated by Japan is that they don't think they can depend on America as long as Obama is in charge.
Excellent point and correct.
By now, it's obvious to our allies that his own people and government don't trust Obama. They're probably wondering how he managed to win twice.
Illegals, anti-voter id laws, and oh yes outright voter fraud IE: votes found locked in trunks of cars etc....our electoral system has gotten so corrupt that the U.N. needs to send "observers" whats that tell you folks?
Quote from: daidalos on April 01, 2015, 07:00:35 AM
Illegals, anti-voter id laws, and oh yes outright voter fraud IE: votes found locked in trunks of cars etc....our electoral system has gotten so corrupt that the U.N. needs to send "observers" whats that tell you folks?
You forgot untold millions from untraceable foreign debit cards.
As for Japan solar, no they should not. They should follow their own Constitution which prohibits Japan from waging war.
Quote from: daidalos on April 04, 2015, 11:51:38 AM
As for Japan solar, no they should not. They should follow their own Constitution which prohibits Japan from waging war.
But it's theirs to change. The question is should we intervene?
China is threatening Japans geographical interests all the while the Marxist ignores the problem.
By not backing Japan in this dispute, we grant China free reign, if we support Japan, we run the risk of getting mired in their dispute.
By not giving Japan the right to defend itself, automatically puts us at odds with China.
Would it not be in our best interest to allow Japan complete autonomous control over their own jurisdiction?
I don't see Japan declaring war anytime soon, but regardless, I do think they should be allowed to protect their own interests.
Quote from: mdgiles on March 27, 2015, 10:57:20 AM
By now, it's obvious to our allies that his own people and government don't trust Obama. They're probably wondering how he managed to win twice.
Its because there much more people that love Obama that people who hates him.
His a good President.
Quote from: edward222 on April 07, 2015, 10:26:25 PM
Its because there much more people that love Obama that people who hates him.
His a good President.
You are out of touch.
Quote from: edward222 on April 07, 2015, 10:26:25 PM
Its because there much more people that love Obama that people who hates him.
His a good President.
What country do you live in? We now it's not the US, because 70% of the population despise what the Marxist did to the country.
Quote from: edward222 on April 07, 2015, 10:26:25 PM
Its because there much more people that love Obama that people who hates him.
His a good President.
How can you love a dipshit who ruined our health care system, undermined LEGAL immigration, enabled widespread criminality within the Dept. of Justice (under the racist Eric Holder), and has completely proved how Democrats HATE America?
Obama is not a President. He is an officeholder who got there SOLELY because the Donks couldn't bring themselves to vote for Clinton. He is a disgrace, a racist festering boil on the arse of democracy.
(https://conservativepoliticalforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.fotki.com%2F1_p%2Csgbqddrdkfrrqwtxbqfqsbrwqdbw%2Cvi%2Fsqtttqtqdxbdtqddsg%2F1%2F1595431%2F10202012%2F060obamataxslaveabe225x446-vi.jpg&hash=23d440c084c5867d0f700bb96c43b111757453b5)
Quote from: quiller on April 10, 2015, 07:10:59 AM
How can you love a dipshit who ruined our health care system, undermined LEGAL immigration, enabled widespread criminality within the Dept. of Justice (under the racist Eric Holder), and has completely proved how Democrats HATE America?
And that's just scratching the surface. Look at all the damage he's done in upsetting the balance of power to favor that of our enemies.
Obozo is the enemy of the fee world.
Quote from: Solar on April 10, 2015, 07:22:18 AM
And that's just scratching the surface.
More like picking at the crust of the national wound, but have it your way.
QuoteLook at all the damage he's done in upsetting the balance of power to favor that of our enemies.
Obozo is the enemy of the fee world.
(https://conservativepoliticalforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.fotki.com%2F1_p%2Crsbfffwrtdrdkrwxbqfqsbrwqdbw%2Cvi%2Ffqwbfrtfxkkdbqktbxgggttwtws%2F1%2F1595431%2F12754402%2Fa_obama_says-vi.jpg&hash=194e487d29c570cd611faf287fc34cb4abe5224b)
Quote from: Solar on April 04, 2015, 12:08:35 PM
But it's theirs to change. The question is should we intervene?
China is threatening Japans geographical interests all the while the Marxist ignores the problem.
By not backing Japan in this dispute, we grant China free reign, if we support Japan, we run the risk of getting mired in their dispute.
By not giving Japan the right to defend itself, automatically puts us at odds with China.
Would it not be in our best interest to allow Japan complete autonomous control over their own jurisdiction?
I don't see Japan declaring war anytime soon, but regardless, I do think they should be allowed to protect their own interests.
Should China attack, or some how otherwise actually threaten Japan, then yes we Should intervene. The allies all, but the U.S. in particular has promised to do precisely that to Japan.
Should Japan wage war though?
Not unless the people of Japan vote to change their Constitution to allow it. As far as U.S. intervention in THAT, I would say as a "gut" reaction. No, we should let the people of Japan operate as a Constitutional Republican form of government should work. (Whatever their actual parliamentary procedure may be)
I don't think anyone would want to see Japan under the rule of another Emperor would we?
ISIS, Russia, Muhamadan's all over Europe, threaten Germany, should we (we being the allies) intervene in the internal machinations of the German Government too "let them off the leash" as well?
At this point I would honestly say no.
If Japan is to defend themselves, they need to modify the way their constitution reads regarding war. "The best defense is a strong offense." This is a truism that will never, ever become obsolete in the realm of warfare. The U.S. SHOULD encourage all our allies to be able to not only defend themselves, but to also assist other allies if needed.
So, yes, let Japan off the "leash". Hopefully the people of Japan will see the need to remove the silly prohibition against "offensive" weapons of war. ALL free nations should have the means to defend themselves as necessary, and proper defense means the ability to take the war to the enemy. (ie: offense.)
Quote from: zewazir on April 16, 2015, 11:09:04 AM
If Japan is to defend themselves, they need to modify the way their constitution reads regarding war. "The best defense is a strong offense." This is a truism that will never, ever become obsolete in the realm of warfare. The U.S. SHOULD encourage all our allies to be able to not only defend themselves, but to also assist other allies if needed.
So, yes, let Japan off the "leash". Hopefully the people of Japan will see the need to remove the silly prohibition against "offensive" weapons of war. ALL free nations should have the means to defend themselves as necessary, and proper defense means the ability to take the war to the enemy. (ie: offense.)
Agree. A wall is only as strong as those with the ability to defend it. Without offensive weapons, it's only a matter of time before the wall crumbles.
Quote from: Solar on April 16, 2015, 12:56:37 PM
Agree. A wall is only as strong as those with the ability to defend it. Without offensive weapons, it's only a matter of time before the wall crumbles.
The U.S. just does not have the resources now to be the world's policeman. Japan and Germany have the where with all to have their own defenses with backup from NATO and SEATO. We need to be prepared to destroy the truly bad guys like Islamic radicals.
Quote from: zewazir on April 16, 2015, 11:09:04 AM
If Japan is to defend themselves, they need to modify the way their constitution reads regarding war. "The best defense is a strong offense." This is a truism that will never, ever become obsolete in the realm of warfare. The U.S. SHOULD encourage all our allies to be able to not only defend themselves, but to also assist other allies if needed.
So, yes, let Japan off the "leash". Hopefully the people of Japan will see the need to remove the silly prohibition against "offensive" weapons of war. ALL free nations should have the means to defend themselves as necessary, and proper defense means the ability to take the war to the enemy. (ie: offense.)
I served in Japan for two years at the height of American control over their economy and all domestic production. The number of U.S. military installations within Japan totaled enough acreage and imported so many gaijiin influences that inevitably Japanese society itself would change---and not change.
I believe Japan got precisely what it deserved after the Pearl Harbor attack.
Including the U.S. rebuilding of that country while helping the postwar government adapt to its U.S.-imposed new Constitution. Our magnanimous behavior as victors earned us lasting friendship and trade, just as with Germany (its own history more militant than even Japan's). I believe Japan came to assess this "foreign control" as a societal stabilizer, as Japan also realized
your basic point about self-defense.
Okay, oto-san and oba-san, you had a whole generation to calm yourselves down, and you've passed with flying colors. So maybe it's time to note how many FEWER U.S. installations are now there since, say, 1970. That leash you've been on got lots smaller. No problems. Well, none aside from the Marines in Okinawa....
So the realists saw the financial peril coming when we couldn't fork out cash for their TRUE defense. The question remained, how large a defense force, and what type of defense vessels or aircraft (or other) would it finally total up to be?
The lessons from World War II hit hardest after the Fukushima meltdown and the realization that nuclear ANYTHING would bear a terrible price on a society still only two generations after the war they lost and an emperor became a mortal man.
A really rambling way to say, I think they'll do just fine on their own.
Quote from: Solar on April 04, 2015, 12:08:35 PM
But it's theirs to change. The question is should we intervene?
China is threatening Japans geographical interests all the while the Marxist ignores the problem.
By not backing Japan in this dispute, we grant China free reign, if we support Japan, we run the risk of getting mired in their dispute.
By not giving Japan the right to defend itself, automatically puts us at odds with China.
Would it not be in our best interest to allow Japan complete autonomous control over their own jurisdiction?
I don't see Japan declaring war anytime soon, but regardless, I do think they should be allowed to protect their own interests.
Good point, and one that applies in a number of directions. At this point in history, it seems that Japan has certainly earned the right -- and the duty -- to determine its own destiny and its own foreign policy. I agree that Japan seems unlikely to lash out against anyone anytime soon, but that's not really the point. I think it's not the business of the US to determine Japanese foreign policy. The last war that involved Japanese aggression ended almost 70 years ago.
Quote from: TboneAgain on April 23, 2015, 09:02:27 PM
Good point, and one that applies in a number of directions. At this point in history, it seems that Japan has certainly earned the right -- and the duty -- to determine its own destiny and its own foreign policy. I agree that Japan seems unlikely to lash out against anyone anytime soon, but that's not really the point. I think it's not the business of the US to determine Japanese foreign policy. The last war that involved Japanese aggression ended almost 70 years ago.
Good point. I don't see the animosity we saw 70 yeas ago, they no longer worship a human false God, and most are appreciative of what they created out of the ashes of failed aggression.
Japan has much to be proud of, and isolationism is not one of them.
Could they turn on us in the future? Sure, but so could any of our allies, but oppressing them is certain to create more animus than is necessary, not to mention Japan is a proud nation and feeling they have to rely on our unpredictable political situation in the event they are attacked is not reassuring to the majority of their people.
Quote from: Solar on April 24, 2015, 08:05:32 AM
Good point. I don't see the animosity we saw 70 yeas ago, they no longer worship a human false God, and most are appreciative of what they created out of the ashes of failed aggression.
Japan has much to be proud of, and isolationism is not one of them.
Could they turn on us in the future? Sure, but so could any of our allies, but oppressing them is certain to create more animus than is necessary, not to mention Japan is a proud nation and feeling they have to rely on our unpredictable political situation in the event they are attacked is not reassuring to the majority of their people.
Looking at what we have in the White House right now I can understand how they feel.
Quote from: walkstall on April 24, 2015, 08:14:09 AM
Looking at what we have in the White House right now I can understand how they feel.
Exactly my point! The Marxist has turned allies against, all the while extending his hand to the enemy.
Cross the Japanese and they'll take it off at the wrist, leaving a bloody stump, and I'd applaud them for it. :biggrin:
Quote from: Solar on April 24, 2015, 08:36:01 AM
Exactly my point! The Marxist has turned allies against, all the while extending his hand to the enemy.
Cross the Japanese and they'll take it off at the wrist, leaving a bloody stump, and I'd applaud them for it. :biggrin:
The Japanese have learned for their mistakes. Marxism has not, there thinking the same old way.