I suggest you actually watch the whole thing. Great reference to Thomas Sowell at the 15 minute mark and a perfect explanation of what inflation actually is between 19:45 and 22:00.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQKM5b1SoS0
Hitler started the war because he thought he would win. And he was a megalomaniac who loved power.
There were many reasons -from revenge for the loss in the last war, the humiliation of the Versailles Treaty, the feeling that Germany SHOULD be the power in Europe, etc.
Bluntly speaking economic reasons were not likely the most important to Hitler. A factor, yes but not the critical factor.
I have been reading and researching WW2 for 50 years; I was fascinated at age 10 when my father showed me the scars on his back from when he was wounded during the Battle for Cherbourg. From that point on I tried to read every book I could at the library about it. And as I grew older I haunted University Libraries and City Libraries wherever I happened to live at the time. The major bookstores found me looking at their non fiction historical section at least monthly.
Probably have 200 books on the Second World War.
During the late 60's through the 70's there were a spate of revisionist books making rather outrageous claims (the ones where Roosevelt knew the Japanese were going to attack Pearl Harbor being only the most ridiculous)
The US refusing to declassify many documents from WW2 until the 80's and later was a problem; a lot of vital information was denied historians. And of course it was as usual the typical government stupidity behind it.
Sort of like the Army claiming the MI Abrams only has a top speed of 45MPH when EVERYONE knows that is BS. That was the kind of thing with declassifying anything to do with MAGIC in WW2. Nuts Tora Tora Tora put it out there for everyone to see in the Movies in 1970 as did several major books from very respected authors and the US Navy STILL tried to deny MAGIC publicly.
Quote from: winterset on April 09, 2021, 11:20:49 AM
Hitler started the war because he thought he would win. And he was a megalomaniac who loved power.
There were many reasons -from revenge for the loss in the last war, the humiliation of the Versailles Treaty, the feeling that Germany SHOULD be the power in Europe, etc.
Bluntly speaking economic reasons were not likely the most important to Hitler. A factor, yes but not the critical factor.
.....
So, you didn't watch the hour plus revisionist dude, who tries assumes the entire world thinks the SAME, has similar values & goals...? :biggrin:
I cannot explain, barely describe, the conversations I had with a Hitler Youth (an adult, her son & I were good friends, he was my best man when I got married). Nothing like a 3rd world country, she was SO PROUD of Hitler, and was singing his praises in the '70s, like he was still alive, and German was just on the cusp of rising again. She was THERE, lived it, remained there, till she married - and was dragged out of there, reluctantly. Such pride in a nation - I've never, ever witnessed in America.
The strong support for Germany in America before and after Pearl Harbor, gets glossed over - unless you're familiar with, or come from areas of the country where German is spoken like it's the native language. I told my kids, "Learn German, forget Spanish & French - German is the language of the Engineer" - 'cause I grew up around them.
I honestly don't know how to describe those people, if it's genetic, work ethic, national pride - but, they got/had something I doubt any other nation on earth ever had - and they're not all atheists'!
Quote from: winterset on April 09, 2021, 11:20:49 AM
Hitler started the war because he thought he would win. And he was a megalomaniac who loved power.
There were many reasons -from revenge for the loss in the last war, the humiliation of the Versailles Treaty, the feeling that Germany SHOULD be the power in Europe, etc.
Bluntly speaking economic reasons were not likely the most important to Hitler. A factor, yes but not the critical factor.
I have been reading and researching WW2 for 50 years; I was fascinated at age 10 when my father showed me the scars on his back from when he was wounded during the Battle for Cherbourg. From that point on I tried to read every book I could at the library about it. And as I grew older I haunted University Libraries and City Libraries wherever I happened to live at the time. The major bookstores found me looking at their non fiction historical section at least monthly.
Probably have 200 books on the Second World War.
During the late 60's through the 70's there were a spate of revisionist books making rather outrageous claims (the ones where Roosevelt knew the Japanese were going to attack Pearl Harbor being only the most ridiculous)
The US refusing to declassify many documents from WW2 until the 80's and later was a problem; a lot of vital information was denied historians. And of course it was as usual the typical government stupidity behind it.
Sort of like the Army claiming the MI Abrams only has a top speed of 45MPH when EVERYONE knows that is BS. That was the kind of thing with declassifying anything to do with MAGIC in WW2. Nuts Tora Tora Tora put it out there for everyone to see in the Movies in 1970 as did several major books from very respected authors and the US Navy STILL tried to deny MAGIC publicly.
Im not sure he thought he could win. His driving force was to purify europe of the Jews and his socialist philosophy. Had England and France launched a real attack in 1939 in response to Poland the war would have ended Quickly.
Quote from: Hoofer on April 09, 2021, 11:36:39 AM
So, you didn't watch the hour plus revisionist dude, who tries assumes the entire world thinks the SAME, has similar values & goals...? :biggrin:
I cannot explain, barely describe, the conversations I had with a Hitler Youth (an adult, her son & I were good friends, he was my best man when I got married). Nothing like a 3rd world country, she was SO PROUD of Hitler, and was singing his praises in the '70s, like he was still alive, and German was just on the cusp of rising again. She was THERE, lived it, remained there, till she married - and was dragged out of there, reluctantly. Such pride in a nation - I've never, ever witnessed in America.
The strong support for Germany in America before and after Pearl Harbor, gets glossed over - unless you're familiar with, or come from areas of the country where German is spoken like it's the native language. I told my kids, "Learn German, forget Spanish & French - German is the language of the Engineer" - 'cause I grew up around them.
I honestly don't know how to describe those people, if it's genetic, work ethic, national pride - but, they got/had something I doubt any other nation on earth ever had - and they're not all atheists'!
No doubt many had pride in Germany and Hitler. But the horror he unleashed cant be diminished. Millions killed in death camps and several million more worked to death as slave labor. And i do think he started the war primarily due to economics. Had he not started the war in sept 1939 the german economy would have collapsed.
Quote from: ldub23 on April 23, 2021, 09:43:20 AM
No doubt many had pride in Germany and Hitler. But the horror he unleashed cant be diminished. Millions killed in death camps and several million more worked to death as slave labor. And i do think he started the war primarily due to economics. Had he not started the war in sept 1939 the german economy would have collapsed.
If you bother to really study Hitler you will understand that in no way shape or form did economics mean all that much to him.
Quote from: winterset on April 23, 2021, 09:52:26 AM
If you bother to really study Hitler you will understand that in no way shape or form did economics mean all that much to him.
I think it meant everything to him. He hated Jewish capitalism and hated Jewish Marxism. Now that doesnt mean he UNDERSTOOD economics. He clearly didnt.
Quote from: ldub23 on April 08, 2021, 08:28:51 AM
I suggest you actually watch the whole thing. Great reference to Thomas Sowell at the 15 minute mark and a perfect explanation of what inflation actually is between 19:45 and 22:00.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQKM5b1SoS0
Hitler didn't actually start WWII. France and Englad did when they wrote the treaty of Versailles. Hitler was merly a means to an end and an inevitible result.
BTW this also marked the beginning of Americas involvement in Vietnam as this was also when and where Ho Chi Mien approched Wilson for help in achieving independence from the imperalist French who were plaging his country at the time. He'd actually patterend his constitution after ours. Wilson was just the first in a long line of US presidents to support the imperalist frogs that plagued and victimized Vietnam. If we had practiced what we preach and supported him then the commies would never have had a chance in Vietnam or anywhere else in SEA.
Quote from: ldub23 on April 23, 2021, 10:06:49 AM
I think it meant everything to him. He hated Jewish capitalism and hated Jewish Marxism. Now that doesnt mean he UNDERSTOOD economics. He clearly didnt.
wow you just never get it do you? Hitler HATED. HATRED is what drove him. That and delusions of a 1000 yr Reich. Economics never meant much to him and you keep claiming it means nothing. Just like that stupid video means nothing- just someone looking for attention with a stupid premise.
Quote from: winterset on April 23, 2021, 12:34:38 PM
wow you just never get it do you? Hitler HATED. HATRED is what drove him. That and delusions of a 1000 yr Reich. Economics never meant much to him and you keep claiming it means nothing. Just like that stupid video means nothing- just someone looking for attention with a stupid premise.
By George, I think you've GOT IT! In a nutshell, diving off into all these abstracts - looses & dilutes a person's motivation to do the evil they're doing as ... well... "Gee... there's gotta be some really deep seated, secret thing going on here, some occultism, Raiders of the Lost Ark, Spear of Destiny, etc., thingy." (guess what I watched last night... Raiders...)
Common thread in Hitler was rejection and hatred... artists are kinda funky anyway. Oh, crap, did I just suggest *another* rabbit hole for that dude to explain, "The REAL reason...", a new series!
Quote from: dickfoster on April 23, 2021, 10:26:08 AM
Hitler didn't actually start WWII. France and Englad did when they wrote the treaty of Versailles. Hitler was merly a means to an end and an inevitible result.
BTW this also marked the beginning of Americas involvement in Vietnam as this was also when and where Ho Chi Mien approched Wilson for help in achieving independence from the imperalist French who were plaging his country at the time. He'd actually patterend his constitution after ours. Wilson was just the first in a long line of US presidents to support the imperalist frogs that plagued and victimized Vietnam. If we had practiced what we preach and supported him then the commies would never have had a chance in Vietnam or anywhere else in SEA.
ITS true Ho could have been an ally of ours especially since they historically didnt care for China. I disagree about versailles however. The germans were violating the treaty long before Hitler came to power and its likely Hitler could have negotiated away most of the treaty if not all of it. Invading Poland made no sense unless you consider economics.
Quote from: winterset on April 23, 2021, 12:34:38 PM
wow you just never get it do you? Hitler HATED. HATRED is what drove him. That and delusions of a 1000 yr Reich. Economics never meant much to him and you keep claiming it means nothing. Just like that stupid video means nothing- just someone looking for attention with a stupid premise.
I just cant agree. He thought alot about economics which is why he insisted on going south in the 1942 campaign to get oil and grain. He actually knew better that he couldnt win the war without food and oil. Its also the biggest reason he hated many of his generals. They wanted a drive to Moscow.
Quote from: Hoofer on April 23, 2021, 03:37:11 PM
By George, I think you've GOT IT! In a nutshell, diving off into all these abstracts - looses & dilutes a person's motivation to do the evil they're doing as ... well... "Gee... there's gotta be some really deep seated, secret thing going on here, some occultism, Raiders of the Lost Ark, Spear of Destiny, etc., thingy." (guess what I watched last night... Raiders...)
Common thread in Hitler was rejection and hatred... artists are kinda funky anyway. Oh, crap, did I just suggest *another* rabbit hole for that dude to explain, "The REAL reason...", a new series!
There is nothing occult about economics. Germany couldnt pay for the war nor did they have the resources for a long war. When they were defeated in nov 1942 it was over.
Quote from: ldub23 on April 24, 2021, 03:56:00 PM
There is nothing occult about economics. Germany couldnt pay for the war nor did they have the resources for a long war. When they were defeated in nov 1942 it was over.
Just give it up, already. You're grasping at anything to prop up this dude (is it YOU?), I'm not buying revisionist history anymore than flat out rejecting the conversations I had with a lady who grew up in Germany, lived through the war and offered me insite I'd never expected. Sorry, but that dude is just chasing rabbits & missing the bigger picture, IMO.
Just remembered this historical performance, Hmmmm...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zY1orxW8Aw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zY1orxW8Aw)
(Global Warming probably caused something... need to investigate it)
Quote from: Hoofer on April 24, 2021, 04:05:27 PM
Just give it up, already. You're grasping at anything to prop up this dude (is it YOU?), I'm not buying revisionist history anymore than flat out rejecting the conversations I had with a lady who grew up in Germany, lived through the war and offered me insite I'd never expected. Sorry, but that dude is just chasing rabbits & missing the bigger picture, IMO.
Economics is the bigger picture.
Quote from: Hoofer on April 24, 2021, 04:59:53 PM
Just remembered this historical performance, Hmmmm...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zY1orxW8Aw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zY1orxW8Aw)
(Global Warming probably caused something... need to investigate it)
Good one.
Economics was the entire reason Hitler invaded Russia and the reason he wanted to go south, not toward Moscow. Many people say if the Germans had been able to send more divisions east they would have won, but they couldnt because they couldnt supply them. With the divisions they sent they had a fatal delay before Moscow in early Oct of 2 weeks because they had to stop due to running out of oil. They had another fatal delay in Aug 42 before stalingrad for the same reasons. Both times there were few russians between them and their objectives but no food ammo and oil meant they couldnt move.
Quote from: ldub23 on April 26, 2021, 02:18:56 PM
Economics was the entire reason Hitler invaded Russia and the reason he wanted to go south, not toward Moscow. Many people say if the Germans had been able to send more divisions east they would have won, but they couldnt because they couldnt supply them. With the divisions they sent they had a fatal delay before Moscow in early Oct of 2 weeks because they had to stop due to running out of oil. They had another fatal delay in Aug 42 before stalingrad for the same reasons. Both times there were few russians between them and their objectives but no food ammo and oil meant they couldnt move.
Funny, I have many books on the second WW, have watched many a documentary on it and had a decorated Father who fought in WWII and they tell a VERY different story then you tell. I wonder why that is?
Quote from: RV on April 27, 2021, 09:17:44 AM
Funny, I have many books on the second WW, have watched many a documentary on it and had a decorated Father who fought in WWII and they tell a VERY different story then you tell. I wonder why that is?
Yep, same here, my dad told/showed me the horror of WWI and WWII both and it's obvious, the gullible don't want the truth, they want a varnished and rewritten view of war.
Quote from: ldub23 on April 26, 2021, 02:10:41 PM
Economics is the bigger picture.
Guess what dude?
No one buys your crap or the crap of the idiot in the video.
Quote from: winterset on April 27, 2021, 10:10:31 AM
Guess what dude?
No one buys your crap or the crap of the idiot in the video.
Yup - when he makes blanket statements like:
Quote from: ldub23 on April 26, 2021, 02:18:56 PM
Economics was the entire reason Hitler invaded Russia and the reason he wanted to go south, not toward Moscow.
Boneheadedness. My Grandfather fought them in WW1, and tried to fight them again in WW2, but was told, "we need you in other ways for the war effort - but your son, we'll take him." The Axis was brutal, unmerciful, would gladly die for
"economic reasons" - the advancement of their RACE, the cause, the glory of expanding
economies their empires.
Revisionist History - ignore centuries of Germanic Culture and claim it was "economics". :rolleyes:
Quote from: ldub23 on April 23, 2021, 10:06:49 AM
I think it meant everything to him. He hated Jewish capitalism and hated Jewish Marxism. Now that doesnt mean he UNDERSTOOD economics. He clearly didnt.
That seems to be the liberal Democrat message, hate anything you don't understand nor agree with. Kill what you hate. Hitler blamed all of Germany's problems on the Jews just like the Democrat blame all of America's problems on Capitalism, "White Supremacy", Conservatism, self defense, law and order, peace, the Constitution, freedom, liberty, ethics, morality and love for God. In short, anyone who supports President Trump.
Quote from: RV on April 29, 2021, 10:07:56 AM
That seems to be the liberal Democrat message, hate anything you don't understand nor agree with. Kill what you hate. Hitler blamed all of Germany's problems on the Jews just like the Democrat blame all of America's problems on Capitalism, "White Supremacy", Conservatism, self defense, law and order, peace, the Constitution, freedom, liberty, ethics, morality and love for God. In short, anyone who supports President Trump.
And it appears we fail to understand history.
Quote from: ldub23 on April 29, 2021, 05:58:09 PM
And it appears we fail to understand history.
"WE" as in YOU. You're friend is a history revisionist, and you're not answering any of the questions.
Quote from: ldub23 on April 29, 2021, 05:58:09 PM
And it appears we fail to understand history.
So far you have shown an abysmal lack of judgement in who you believe.
Or is it a case of what you WANT to believe?