I listened to a few interviews on this subject with Dr. Greer and some others working on it, and it just pisses me off that academia holds back science like it is. One of the guys said (not in this video) that people in academia are so scared to touch this or research it because it could end their careers. It's obvious to me that Greer also has to tip toe around the academics to not scare them off and hose the research. It's working, because he's getting collaboration from credible people in the biology field, but it just annoys me. How f*n crazy is that? It just pisses me off that people have to fear research or science.
Anyway, it's an interesting case. What is it? I have no f*n idea, but the reality is it's something.
The Atacama Mystery (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XjietgsBDY#ws)
Everything I read about this says it has human DNA, so what? Could aliens have seeded our planet, would that make make it's DNA match that of an alien?
I'll wait for the final outcome, but I'll bet you money, they'll wind up with more questions than answers and still not know anymore than they do now.
Of course I can't watch the video, dammit! :glare:
Quote from: Solar on August 26, 2014, 04:56:47 PM
Everything I read about this says it has human DNA, so what? Could aliens have seeded our planet, would that make make it's DNA match that of an alien?
I'll wait for the final outcome, but I'll bet you money, they'll wind up with more questions than answers and still not know anymore than they do now.
Of course I can't watch the video, dammit! :glare:
Exactly. I don't mind how it's approached, but I just don't like when it's done out of fear. Academia has become so flat-Earth and it just infuriates me.
Quote from: taxed on August 27, 2014, 10:01:13 AM
Exactly. I don't mind how it's approached, but I just don't like when it's done out of fear. Academia has become so flat-Earth and it just infuriates me.
Yep, the fear of the unknown, or the fact they'll discover they aren't the center of the universe, as mommy used to tell them. :biggrin:
This is the first I've heard of this.
However, after doing a little research, it is fairly obvious that this is a (probably deformed) human fetus and nothing more. DNA test show it to be 100% human DNA and age tests prove that it is not "thousands of years old".
Hey, I love a good UFO/Ancient Alien story, but sad to say, this ain't it!
Of course, there is one other possibility...
(https://conservativepoliticalforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcontent7.flixster.com%2Fquestion%2F49%2F23%2F78%2F4923781_std.jpg&hash=71f5b8a35b28aaf4f63ffc613a80771cd021984f)
Darth
Quote from: Darth Fife on November 16, 2014, 12:44:55 PM
This is the first I've heard of this.
However, after doing a little research, it is fairly obvious that this is a (probably deformed) human fetus and nothing more. DNA test show it to be 100% human DNA and age tests prove that it is not "thousands of years old".
Hey, I love a good UFO/Ancient Alien story, but sad to say, this ain't it!
Of course, there is one other possibility...
(https://conservativepoliticalforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcontent7.flixster.com%2Fquestion%2F49%2F23%2F78%2F4923781_std.jpg&hash=71f5b8a35b28aaf4f63ffc613a80771cd021984f)
You have a link for that by any chance?
Darth
To the chagrin of UFO hunters, Ata is decidedly of this world. After mapping more than 500 million reads to a reference human genome, equating to 17.7-fold coverage of the genome, Nolan concluded that Ata "is human, there's no doubt about it." Moreover, the specimen's B2 haplotype—a category of mitochondrial DNA—reveals that its mother was from the west coast of South America: Chile, that is.
http://news.sciencemag.org/health/2013/05/bizarre-6-inch-skeleton-shown-be-human (http://news.sciencemag.org/health/2013/05/bizarre-6-inch-skeleton-shown-be-human)
Darth
Quote from: Darth Fife on November 16, 2014, 04:28:54 PM
To the chagrin of UFO hunters, Ata is decidedly of this world. After mapping more than 500 million reads to a reference human genome, equating to 17.7-fold coverage of the genome, Nolan concluded that Ata "is human, there's no doubt about it." Moreover, the specimen's B2 haplotype—a category of mitochondrial DNA—reveals that its mother was from the west coast of South America: Chile, that is.
http://news.sciencemag.org/health/2013/05/bizarre-6-inch-skeleton-shown-be-human (http://news.sciencemag.org/health/2013/05/bizarre-6-inch-skeleton-shown-be-human)
Darth
Here's a less biased article on Nolan's position:
http://www.stanforddaily.com/2013/05/20/professor-debunks-theories-of-skeletons-alien-origins/ (http://www.stanforddaily.com/2013/05/20/professor-debunks-theories-of-skeletons-alien-origins/)
And from Nolan:
http://grenzwissenschaft-aktuell.blogspot.com/2013/06/exclusive-stanford-geneticist-garry.html (http://grenzwissenschaft-aktuell.blogspot.com/2013/06/exclusive-stanford-geneticist-garry.html)
Nobody has concluded anything, and nothing has been "debunked".
I was just curious what you thought about it.
Quote from: taxed on November 16, 2014, 04:47:52 PM
Here's a less biased article on Nolan's position:
http://www.stanforddaily.com/2013/05/20/professor-debunks-theories-of-skeletons-alien-origins/ (http://www.stanforddaily.com/2013/05/20/professor-debunks-theories-of-skeletons-alien-origins/)
And from Nolan:
http://grenzwissenschaft-aktuell.blogspot.com/2013/06/exclusive-stanford-geneticist-garry.html (http://grenzwissenschaft-aktuell.blogspot.com/2013/06/exclusive-stanford-geneticist-garry.html)
Nobody has concluded anything, and nothing has been "debunked".
I was just curious what you thought about it.
Totally, 100% terrestrial in origin is my
uneducated guess.
Like I said, I'm a believer in UFOs and alien contact with the Earth and with humans. It is just that I tend to lean towards the late Arthur C. Clarke's assessment of the phenomenon -
I'd be more inclined to believe, if there weren't so many of them.
Darth
How come other Countries in the Western Hemisphere do not have NAGPRA laws like the United States ? And if Neanderthal is Found in the Americas (Like Homo Floriesiensis was found in the Pacific) would Science poo poo & bury the findings ?
Quote from: Gator Monroe on November 17, 2014, 08:41:56 PM
How come other Countries in the Western Hemisphere do not have NAGPRA laws like the United States ? And if Neanderthal is Found in the Americas (Like Homo Floriesiensis was found in the Pacific) would Science poo poo & bury the findings ?
Did you see my reply to you about punctuation?
Are you gonna beat me up over it , or let me stick around long enough to see how hard it is to misspell words and butcher grammar in a creative way without knowing any better... :unsure:
Quote from: Gator Monroe on November 17, 2014, 08:54:08 PM
Are you gonna beat me up over it , or let me stick around long enough to see how hard it is to misspell words and butcher grammar in a creative way without knowing any better... :unsure:
(https://conservativepoliticalforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.pandawhale.com%2F67253-cant-deal-with-it-gif-AhC0.gif&hash=6782590c8e040c7fae13f0062f033272c62b3f5a)
Quote from: taxed on August 26, 2014, 12:04:54 PM
I listened to a few interviews on this subject with Dr. Greer and some others working on it, and it just pisses me off that academia holds back science like it is. One of the guys said (not in this video) that people in academia are so scared to touch this or research it because it could end their careers. It's obvious to me that Greer also has to tip toe around the academics to not scare them off and hose the research. It's working, because he's getting collaboration from credible people in the biology field, but it just annoys me. How f*n crazy is that? It just pisses me off that people have to fear research or science.
Anyway, it's an interesting case. What is it? I have no f*n idea, but the reality is it's something.
The Atacama Mystery (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XjietgsBDY#ws)
How would finding the first ever definitive proof of alien life/ancient proto-people etc, ruin a scientists career?
Wouldn't it be more lucrative to use the discovery to secure grants to excavate the area for more of these corpses and sell tons of books on the subject? How could it be more profitable to suppress the discovery and continue to publish boring papers at a university for 60k a year?
If I was a professor and thought the science had merit, I would jump at the chance to research something new and exciting.
The subject itself is fascinating tho. Scientists think the little thing survived 6-9 years!!!
Quote from: Darth Fife on November 17, 2014, 08:35:51 AM
Totally, 100% terrestrial in origin is my uneducated guess.
Like I said, I'm a believer in UFOs and alien contact with the Earth and with humans. It is just that I tend to lean towards the late Arthur C. Clarke's assessment of the phenomenon - I'd be more inclined to believe, if there weren't so many of them.
Darth
Ponder this. How would we know for certain that supposed human DNA is not alien DNA in the first place?
I'm not arguing either way, just that we know absolutely nothing of the true origin of man.
Maybe we're the aliens to the planet?
Quote from: Gator Monroe on November 17, 2014, 08:54:08 PM
Are you gonna beat me up over it , or let me stick around long enough to see how hard it is to misspell words and butcher grammar in a creative way without knowing any better... :unsure:
You aren't creative. We don't have to beat you up over that.
Quote from: Solar on November 18, 2014, 05:27:59 AM
Ponder this. How would we know for certain that supposed human DNA is not alien DNA in the first place?
I'm not arguing either way, just that we know absolutely nothing of the true origin of man.
At the risk of getting this bumped into the Conspiracy Forum, we wouldn't.
The tests and the laboratories, and the specimens themselves are all unavailable and (for the most part) incomprehensible to the average American. The papers and the treatises that scientists write to prove their theories are written for other scientists, not the average individual.
They could make up any far fetched idea they wanted to, and as long as there was no serious challenge - from other scientists - 90% of the population would have to just take their word for it!
A perfect example is the Global Warming scam and what happened with the weather data that was "massaged" by the University of East Anglia and NASA!
Some people make a big deal about Eisenhower's Farewell Address and his mention of the "Military Industrial Complex". Those same people usually ignore and equally dire warning Ike made in that very same address.
"The prospect of domination of the nation's scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present – and is gravely to be regarded.
Yet, in holding scientific research and discovery in respect, as we should, we must also be alert to the equal and opposite danger that public policy could itself become the captive of a scientific-technological elite".
If the DNA is of extraterrestrial origin, and the Government/Scientific Community deems it in their best interest not to tell us - we would never know!
QuoteMaybe we're the aliens to the planet?
Oh, this is sure to get this sent to the Conspiracy Forums, if not to the Bunker! It might even get me banned as a "racist". But, hey, you asked!
I believe that some of us, namely White Europeans
are alien to this planet. I believe we were "seeded" here when it became obvious that the Neanderthal was an evolutionary dead end.
Darth
Quote from: Darth Fife on November 18, 2014, 03:14:00 PM
At the risk of getting this bumped into the Conspiracy Forum, we wouldn't.
The tests and the laboratories, and the specimens themselves are all unavailable and (for the most part) incomprehensible to the average American. The papers and the treatises that scientists write to prove their theories are written for other scientists, not the average individual.
They could make up any far fetched idea they wanted to, and as long as there was no serious challenge - from other scientists - 90% of the population would have to just take their word for it!
A perfect example is the Global Warming scam and what happened with the weather data that was "massaged" by the University of East Anglia and NASA!
Some people make a big deal about Eisenhower's Farewell Address and his mention of the "Military Industrial Complex". Those same people usually ignore and equally dire warning Ike made in that very same address.
"The prospect of domination of the nation's scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present – and is gravely to be regarded.
Yet, in holding scientific research and discovery in respect, as we should, we must also be alert to the equal and opposite danger that public policy could itself become the captive of a scientific-technological elite".
If the DNA is of extraterrestrial origin, and the Government/Scientific Community deems it in their best interest not to tell us - we would never know!
Oh, this is sure to get this sent to the Conspiracy Forums, if not to the Bunker! It might even get me banned as a "racist". But, hey, you asked!
I believe that some of us, namely White Europeans are alien to this planet. I believe we were "seeded" here when it became obvious that the Neanderthal was an evolutionary dead end.
Darth
Recent discoveries found Neanderthal DNA in all races with the exception of those in Africa.
I'll see if I can find the article .
Here it is.
http://news.discovery.com/human/evolution/neanderthal-human-interbreed-dna.htm (http://news.discovery.com/human/evolution/neanderthal-human-interbreed-dna.htm)
Quote from: Hector on November 18, 2014, 03:24:12 AM
How would finding the first ever definitive proof of alien life/ancient proto-people etc, ruin a scientists career?
Wouldn't it be more lucrative to use the discovery to secure grants to excavate the area for more of these corpses and sell tons of books on the subject? How could it be more profitable to suppress the discovery and continue to publish boring papers at a university for 60k a year?
If I was a professor and thought the science had merit, I would jump at the chance to research something new and exciting.
I don't know. What I like about this topic is it makes some people uncomfortable. This is something real that the world's top expert in human dysplasia says is 6 years old, but it's 6 inches tall. Greer, the guy heading the project, is a trauma surgeon. There is plenty of credibility to say "hmmm, this is something out of the ordinary". When someone rushes out to say "Well, it's settled. This is a human! Now please let's move on!", that interests me. I'm a conservative, so I look at facts and science, and don't care about some academics scared they're going to rock the evolution boat. Whatever this is, I believe it was created by whatever created me.
I also don't get the alien angle. This could very well be something from Earth, just like us. Why the automatic defense about "It's human! Not an alien!". Well, how about some other species that is on Earth, or used to live on Earth, that isn't human? We have humans and monkeys. Why not something else that walks or walked on two legs?
Quote from: Solar on November 18, 2014, 04:13:20 PM
Here it is.
http://news.discovery.com/human/evolution/neanderthal-human-interbreed-dna.htm (http://news.discovery.com/human/evolution/neanderthal-human-interbreed-dna.htm)
Ha, wow!!
Quote from: Solar on November 18, 2014, 04:13:20 PM
Here it is.
http://news.discovery.com/human/evolution/neanderthal-human-interbreed-dna.htm (http://news.discovery.com/human/evolution/neanderthal-human-interbreed-dna.htm)
All that says is that humans and neanderthals interbred, which I've always conceded as a given.
It does nothing to disprove my idea (I won't even call it a theory) that the so-called Caucasian race was not originally from this planet.
Darth
Quote from: Darth Fife on November 26, 2014, 03:28:03 PM
All that says is that humans and neanderthals interbred, which I've always conceded as a given.
It does nothing to disprove my idea (I won't even call it a theory) that the so-called Caucasian race was not originally from this planet.
Darth
So where did Latinos, Asians, and Africans come from? It's very unlikely that two different planets would independently produce the same exact life form (humans) with only the minor difference of skin color and minor differences in facial structure?
Quote from: Hector on November 26, 2014, 06:16:35 PM
So where did Latinos, Asians, and Africans come from? It's very unlikely that two different planets would independently produce the same exact life form (humans) with only the minor difference of skin color and minor differences in facial structure?
Read the link I posted, quite interesting.
http://news.discovery.com/human/evolution/neanderthal-human-interbreed-dna.htm (http://news.discovery.com/human/evolution/neanderthal-human-interbreed-dna.htm)
Quote from: Solar on November 26, 2014, 08:50:33 PM
Read the link I posted, quite interesting.
http://news.discovery.com/human/evolution/neanderthal-human-interbreed-dna.htm (http://news.discovery.com/human/evolution/neanderthal-human-interbreed-dna.htm)
The article is interesting and I agree with it. I'm just not sure that "White Europeans" are so different from Latinos that they must be aliens! Seems like a lot of trouble to import a new lifeform from outer space to replace the inferior brings there, but the new life forms can't do anything different than the old ones?
It's not like white Europeans have super speed, can use photosynthesis, and don't require sleep or anything like that. I'm just not seeing enough differences to make me think white people were originally an alien race.
Quote from: Hector on November 27, 2014, 01:43:49 AM
The article is interesting and I agree with it. I'm just not sure that "White Europeans" are so different from Latinos that they must be aliens! Seems like a lot of trouble to import a new lifeform from outer space to replace the inferior brings there, but the new life forms can't do anything different than the old ones?
It's not like white Europeans have super speed, can use photosynthesis, and don't require sleep or anything like that. I'm just not seeing enough differences to make me think white people were originally an alien race.
Being that I'm not God, I'd never second guess his work. Alien or viral, are we really of this planet, or a mix from the universe in the first place?
So one has to conclude that everything here is extraterrestrial and alien in origin.
Which begs the question, just how old is the universe, and the concept of life?
Quote from: Hector on November 26, 2014, 06:16:35 PM
So where did Latinos, Asians, and Africans come from? It's very unlikely that two different planets would independently produce the same exact life form (humans) with only the minor difference of skin color and minor differences in facial structure?
Who says that two different planets would not independently produce the same exact life form?
Perhaps the alien race that seeded white humans here were actually searching for that had very similar life forms to their own and finally found it on this little blue marble of ours?
Darth
Quote from: Darth Fife on December 01, 2014, 12:35:09 PM
Who says that two different planets would not independently produce the same exact life form?
Perhaps the alien race that seeded white humans here were actually searching for that had very similar life forms to their own and finally found it on this little blue marble of ours?
Darth
Damn white people. Coming to this planet illegally, taking our jobs and our women. We shoulda built a space fence!
I can understand why the aliens might consider Neanderthals an evolutionary dead end, but why would they consider the blacks, Asians, Latinos etc already on earth also to be an evolutionary deadend? And their answer to that deadend is to transplant an identical organism except their skin is lighter in color.
Quote from: Hector on December 02, 2014, 01:42:12 AM
Damn white people. Coming to this planet illegally, taking our jobs and our women. We shoulda built a space fence!
I can understand why the aliens might consider Neanderthals an evolutionary dead end, but why would they consider the blacks, Asians, Latinos etc already on earth also to be an evolutionary deadend? And their answer to that deadend is to transplant an identical organism except their skin is lighter in color.
I'll be the first to admit that I'm no paleontologist, but I don't believe that Asians existed at the same time as Neanderthals. As for "Latinos" they are actually a hybrid between white Europeans and Native Americans. And the Native American's, of course, are descendents from the Asians.
Even so, maybe the Neanderthals weren't so much a dead end as they were, what is a polite word to use here,
eradicated to allow the new seeded race of humans (which may have been "developed" off world from earlier human stock) room to grow.
Darth
Quote from: Solar on August 26, 2014, 04:56:47 PM
Everything I read about this says it has human DNA, so what? Could aliens have seeded our planet, would that make make it's DNA match that of an alien?
I'll wait for the final outcome, but I'll bet you money, they'll wind up with more questions than answers and still not know anymore than they do now.
Of course I can't watch the video, dammit! :glare:
So I am not the only one who has "issues" when trying to watch You'llwanttotubeit!? Wow! Miserly here loves company.
That said, I don't buy the whole "aliens" seeded humanity. Too many things that had to be "just right" for life to be here at all.
But, could it be some sort of mutation, yep. Absolutely. Just like the "hobbit" found in Indonesia recently.
I personally discount the whole notion of finding one skeleton, or one skull and voila! An entirely new species is born! however.
As seems to be the "trend" more and more in anthropology lately. Sort of makes me wonder how much is really driven by science, and how much is being driven by "make the big discovery so I will be the next Dr. syndrome as I call it.
Quote from: daidalos on January 24, 2015, 06:35:21 AM
So I am not the only one who has "issues" when trying to watch You'llwanttotubeit!? Wow! Miserly here loves company.
That said, I don't buy the whole "aliens" seeded humanity. Too many things that had to be "just right" for life to be here at all.
But, could it be some sort of mutation, yep. Absolutely. Just like the "hobbit" found in Indonesia recently.
I personally discount the whole notion of finding one skeleton, or one skull and voila! An entirely new species is born! however.
As seems to be the "trend" more and more in anthropology lately. Sort of makes me wonder how much is really driven by science, and how much is being driven by "make the big discovery so I will be the next Dr. syndrome as I call it.
Yeah, it matters not the origins of man, be it alien, or amoeba, God did it his way.
Quote from: Solar on January 25, 2015, 06:42:44 PM
Yeah, it matters not the origins of man, be it alien, or amoeba, God did it his way.
Exactly.
Quote from: Solar on January 25, 2015, 06:42:44 PM
Yeah, it matters not the origins of man, be it alien, or amoeba, God did it his way.
Yep. The origins of all life, always go back to God.
But seriously, this trend of pointing to one skull or one skeleton and saying "voila" it's alien, or it's some new "form" of "human evolution" isn't good science.
Piltdown man anyone????
Quote from: daidalos on February 08, 2015, 11:42:41 AM
Yep. The origins of all life, always go back to God.
But seriously, this trend of pointing to one skull or one skeleton and saying "voila" it's alien, or it's some new "form" of "human evolution" isn't good science.
Piltdown man anyone????
I agree. The science and data is what it's all about. Claiming anyone concluded it as human (as Darth Fife incorrectly referred to) is misleading, and it requires people to keep an open mind. Nobody, conversely, concluded it as an "alien". It's under study and research.
I personally think the theory of evolution is ridiculous, because it involves factors way beyond our understanding.