Quote from: Sci Fi Fan on July 30, 2012, 11:46:10 AM
Am I not allowed to comment on societal trends?  Or is this yet another exercise of free speech deemed "treasonous and unamerican" by your political machine?

Why is it when I ask you a question, you claim I am somehow trying to stifle your free speech?
Talk about strawmen, you built that shit out of thin air!
If debating me is so hard, then why do you even respond, you just show your youth every time you do.Now answer the question, son!

QuoteIn other words, you feel that applying labels and strawman distortions is your solution to actually refuting my points?

I'm not the one stating Marxist points here.

QuoteOr, rather, that our culture is overly obsessed with sports, to the point of openly deriding intellectual pursuits and worshiping dumb jocks.

And how do you propose changing this concept, unless you are suggesting communism as your tool?

Your ability to reason logically is pathetic:

Quote"If you cut athletes' pay, they won't have a job anymore!"

So because you think "Dumb Jocks" are overpaid, we should do away with their only source of viable income?

QuoteNo, just create an educational system that puts an increased emphasis on academic pursuits, and less an emphasis on college sports.  There are high schools who can't afford to buy computers, yet spend countless thousands on their football programs, for fuck's sake.

And prey tell, who runs this antiquated educational system?....Let me think...could it be the left?
-------------

This statement implies that life is fair.

So in your opinion, Obama and the evildoers in the liberal media deserve every penny they earn.

Quote from: Solar on July 30, 2012, 12:08:52 PM
Why is it when I ask you a question, you claim I am somehow trying to stifle your free speech?
Talk about strawmen, you built that shit out of thin air!
If debating me is so hard, then why do you even respond, you just show your youth every time you do.Now answer the
question, son!

No, liar.  You accused me of minding other people's businesses just by discussing the point.  The implication here is that I have no right to comment on professional athlete's salaries.

Maybe next time, you could respectfully disagree with my opinion, rather than accusing me of misconduct by having an opinion at all.

Quote
I'm not the one stating Marxist points here.

Stating that professional athletes are grossly overpaid is a marxist point?  ROFLAMO: I guess 70% of America, according to some polls, is marxist now.   :rolleyes:This is what happens when your immediate response to criticism is to apply labels.

Quote
And how do you propose changing this concept, unless you are suggesting communism as your tool?

Change American culture, by reforming our education system.  Drop the anti-intellectual rhetoric of the right; even if you don't mean to scorn intellectuals in your "who needs college?" rants, supporting candidates who accuse college graduates of being "snobs" and create nonexistent words hardly creates a positive impression, does it?

Quote
So because you think "Dumb Jocks" are overpaid, we should do away with their only source of viable income?

Keep on going; you're just killing me with your ineptness.  Right after I very overtly subtly point out that a profession being overpaid does not equate to advocating doing away with the job altogether, you claim that paying professional athletes less will "do away" with their livelihoods!

---

And yes, if your only ability to contribute to society is playing a sport, you're pretty stupid.

Quote
And prey tell, who runs this antiquated educational system?....Let me think...could it be the left?

Childrens do learn when taught by the right.  That's why the overwhelming majority of college professors (read: intellectuals) are liberal.

And this statistic applies to the hard sciences, not just the liberal arts.

Quote from: Sci Fi Fan on July 30, 2012, 12:17:21 PM
No, liar.  You accused me of minding other people's businesses just by discussing the point.  The implication here is that I have no right to comment on professional athlete's salaries.

Maybe next time, you could respectfully disagree with my opinion, rather than accusing me of misconduct by having an opinion at all.

More victim status, I see.
I merely asked you what business it was of yours as to how much someone earned, a question you continue to avoid.
So here it is in the simplest of terms.
What business is it of yours as to how much private citizens make?

QuoteStating that professional athletes are grossly overpaid is a marxist point?  ROFLAMO: I guess 70% of America, according to some polls, is marxist now.   :rolleyes:This is what happens when your immediate response to criticism is to apply labels.

No, complaining that they make too much is a Marxist ideal.

QuoteChange American culture, by reforming our education system.  Drop the anti-intellectual rhetoric of the right; even if you don't mean to scorn intellectuals in your "who needs college?" rants, supporting candidates who accuse college graduates of being "snobs" and create nonexistent words hardly creates a positive impression, does it?

So you expect us to trust the leftists to fix, what they fucked up over decades of abuse to the system?

QuoteKeep on going; you're just killing me with your ineptness.  Right after I very overtly subtly point out that a profession being overpaid does not equate to advocating doing away with the job altogether, you claim that paying professional athletes less will "do away" with their livelihoods!

---Wrong, I merely quoted your statement of "If you cut athletes' pay, they won't have a job anymore!"

QuoteAnd yes, if your only ability to contribute to society is playing a sport, you're pretty stupid.

The only outcome to lowering their pay, is to make the investors/owners more wealthy,.
Doesn't that slap in the face of what you're advocating?
So you'd rather they work a menial job instead?

[quote]Childrens do learn when taught by the right.  That's why the overwhelming majority of college professors (read: intellectuals) are liberal.[/quote]
OK?

QuoteAnd this statistic applies to the hard sciences, not just the liberal arts.

Feel free to show where politics enters into the equation of teaching science, or are you saying that libs are trying to influence science as well?

Quote from: Solar on July 30, 2012, 01:03:29 PM
More victim status, I see.
I merely asked you what business it was of yours as to how much someone earned, a question you continue to avoid.
So here it is in the simplest of terms.
What business is it of yours as to how much private citizens make?
No, complaining that they make too much is a Marxist ideal.

Firstly, my first amendment rights imply that I do not need to have a "business" in something to comment on it.

Secondly, the anti-intellectual culture in America affects all of us quite noticeably, so it's hardly none of my concern.

Quote
So you expect us to trust the leftists to fix, what they fucked up over decades of abuse to the system?

Given that the mainstream conservative position openly sides with the anti-intellectuals, and constantly accuses academics of being "snobs", it isn't even questioning the right's ability to fix the problem; it's just pointing out that they clearly don't see it as a problem at all.

Quote---Wrong, I merely quoted your statement of "If you cut athletes' pay, they won't have a job anymore!"

Which, in case if the quotation marks and the preceding colon weren't indicators enough, was a paraphrasing of your own argument, which incomprehensibly twists my position from "athletes are paid too much" to "athletes shouldn't have jobs at all".

Quote
The only outcome to lowering their pay, is to make the investors/owners more wealthy,.
Doesn't that slap in the face of what you're advocating?

Or rather, to reverse this ridiculous obsession with sports and hatred of academia.

Quote
So you'd rather they work a menial job instead?

Or stay in school and become a doctor, scientist or engineer.

Quote
OK?Feel free to show where politics enters into the equation of teaching science, or are you saying that libs are trying to influence science as well?

No, I'm just pointing out that liberals are more likely to enter into scientific and mathematical fields.  Why else are conservatives significantly more likely to distrust the scientific community, and believe in YEC?

QuoteNo, complaining that they make too much is a Marxist ideal.

It's called the Market. When you have a rare skill, people are willing to pay you more for it. What people who complain about what teachers make as compare to professional athletes is that, their are millions of teachers, but only 1900 Football players. Because of those 1900 football players 60,000 people buy tickets to a given game and millions more look at them on TV. The broadcast rights are sold for BILLIONS. So those 1800 players create immense value. Those millions of teachers can barely teach our children to read and write. BTW, if a Football player can't perform, he is fired. If a teacher can't perform as witnessed by the functional illiterates he/she turns out, they just get a raise. And retire after 20 years. And draw a large pension. And eventually drive their municipality into bankruptcy.

Quote from: Sci Fi Fan on July 30, 2012, 01:11:23 PM
Firstly, my first amendment rights imply that I do not need to have a "business" in something to comment on it.

Secondly, the anti-intellectual culture in America affects all of us quite noticeably, so it's hardly none of my concern.

QuoteQuit avoiding the question. What business is it of yours, as to how much a private citizen makes?
Given that the mainstream conservative position openly sides with the anti-intellectuals, and constantly accuses academics of being "snobs", it isn't even questioning the right's ability to fix the problem; it's just pointing out that they clearly don't see it as a problem at all

.

I think you're projecting a bit, most of us just look at academia as being full of socialists, nothing more.
But you'll never find a conservative insulting those that want to enter the sciences.

QuoteWhich, in case if the quotation marks and the preceding colon weren't indicators enough, was a paraphrasing of your own argument, which incomprehensibly twists my position from "athletes are paid too much" to "athletes shouldn't have jobs at all".

If you have a point to make, use your own words and quit trying to put them in my mouth.

QuoteOr rather, to reverse this ridiculous obsession with sports and hatred of academia.

You are all over the map, did you even eat breakfast?

QuoteOr stay in school and become a doctor, scientist or engineer.

Can't argue that.

Quote
No, I'm just pointing out that liberals are more likely to enter into scientific and mathematical fields.  Why else are conservatives significantly more likely to distrust the scientific community, and believe in YEC?

OK, this is bull shit!
Prove your claim, or eat those words!

Quote from: Solar on July 30, 2012, 01:28:36 PM
.

I think you're projecting a bit, most of us just look at academia as being full of socialists, nothing more.

Have you ever wondered why intellectuals tend to be more liberal?  Hint: it has nothing to do with a Vast Liberal Conspiracy, and everything to do with the empirical studies suggesting a positive correlation between liberalism, atheism, IQ, college education and male sexual exclusivity.

Quote
But you'll never find a conservative insulting those that want to enter the sciences.

Yes, actually, I have.  More to the point, when you consider your 30 minutes on google ample grounds to contest the internationally recognized scientific organizations that support global warming theory; which is every single one of them, you're implying that you really don't trust them.

Especially when you go into your rants about how liberals overstate the importance of a college education.  As though we need more high school dropouts.

Quote
If you have a point to make, use your own words and quit trying to put them in my mouth.

I'm not putting it in your mouth.  Why are you backtracking on the internet?

QuoteSo because you think "Dumb Jocks" are overpaid, we should do away with their only source of viable income?

Quote
You are all over the map, did you even eat breakfast?

Please, address my argument.

QuoteCan't argue that.

Except that you do.  Because who would want to go into the sciences, when the republicans wish to cut scientific funding, and when they know the populace will dismiss their findings on second hand smoking, global warming, the origin of life and the origin of the universe as being false, and easily disproven by google-fu?

Quote
OK, this is bull shit!
Prove your claim, or eat those words!

I'd assume that YEC is a given.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2012/03/29/149615398/study-conservatives-trust-in-science-at-record-low



---

That you reject global warming, evolution and big bang cosmology despite nearly unanimous consensus in the scientific community should be ample anecdotal verification.

Quote from: Sci Fi Fan on July 29, 2012, 06:00:09 PM
And ironically enough, your highly generalized statement's evidence is...?

Your post.

Quote from: Sci Fi Fan on July 29, 2012, 05:48:52 PM
Here's my list.

Underpaid:

Soldiers
Scientists
Teachers
Nurses
Firefighters

Overpaid:

Sports athletes
Movie stars
High profile entertainers
Socialites
Reality TV stars
[some] businessmen
CEOs
Bankers
Management consultants
High-end TV anchors
High-end real estate agents
Lawyers
Public school administrators

Please don't feel offended if your profession is in the latter list; I'm stating gross generalizations, of course.

You recently made this statement:

Rather, conservatives want to punish people based on where they stick their willies.


So you wish, as others do, to punish people based on professions? 

Quote from: republicans2 on July 30, 2012, 02:18:05 PM

You recently made this statement:

Rather, conservatives want to punish people based on where they stick their willies.


So you wish, as others do, to punish people based on professions?

Sometimes, I cannot remotely comprehend what corrupted logical processes occur in republicans' brains; how does arguing that some professions are compensated more than they should, and others are compensated too much, indicate a desire to "punish" people on the basis on their profession?

Quote from: Sci Fi Fan on July 30, 2012, 01:38:45 PM
Have you ever wondered why intellectuals tend to be more liberal?  Hint: it has nothing to do with a Vast Liberal Conspiracy, and everything to do with the empirical studies suggesting a positive correlation between liberalism, atheism, IQ, college education and male sexual exclusivity.

Yes, actually, I have.  More to the point, when you consider your 30 minutes on google ample grounds to contest the internationally recognized scientific organizations that support global warming theory; which is every single one of them, you're implying that you really don't trust them.

Especially when you go into your rants about how liberals overstate the importance of a college education.  As though we need more high school dropouts.


I'm not putting it in your mouth.  Why are you backtracking on the internet?

Please, address my argument.

Except that you do.  Because who would want to go into the sciences, when the republicans wish to cut scientific funding, and when they know the populace will dismiss their findings on second hand smoking, global warming, the origin of life and the origin of the universe as being false, and easily disproven by google-fu?

I'd assume that YEC is a given.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2012/03/29/149615398/study-conservatives-trust-in-science-at-record-low



---

That you reject global warming, evolution and big bang cosmology despite nearly unanimous consensus in the scientific community should be ample anecdotal verification.

Lets back up a bit and try and stay on topic, something you like to say to others.

Quit avoiding the question.
What business is it of yours, as to how much a private citizen makes?
Given that the mainstream conservative position openly sides with the anti-intellectuals, and constantly accuses academics of being "snobs", it isn't even questioning the right's ability to fix the problem; it's just pointing out that they clearly don't see it as a problem at all

Quote from: Solar on July 30, 2012, 02:28:24 PM
Lets back up a bit and try and stay on topic, something you like to say to others.

Interestingly enough, I've already responded to your million dollar question, so I don't see what you're trying to get at here.

Quote
Quit avoiding the question.
What business is it of yours, as to how much a private citizen makes?

1. I have every right to criticize professions I deem overrated.  It's called the 1st amendment, it's called generating conversation.  If I walked up to a random lawyer and told him he was grossly overpaid, I wouldn't be behaving very appropriately, but making generalizations on professions is well within my right to do so.

Or is it OK for mdgiles to argue the forced deportation of all muslims, but not for me to very obviously point out that professional athletes are overpaid?  Is it OK for conservatives to complain about pornography, prostitution, drugs, and various other private lives of individuals, but not for me to do the same?

2. The more professional athletes are paid, the more they are worshiped, which leads to increased anti-intellectualism in American culture, which leads to decreased emphasis and appreciation of the sciences, which leads to decreased innovation and progress in those fields, which affects us all negatively.  So it's certainly a topic that merits conversation.

Quote from: Sci Fi Fan on July 30, 2012, 02:58:58 PM
Interestingly enough, I've already responded to your million dollar question, so I don't see what you're trying to get at here.

1. I have every right to criticize professions I deem overrated.  It's called the 1st amendment, it's called generating conversation.  If I walked up to a random lawyer and told him he was grossly overpaid, I wouldn't be behaving very appropriately, but making generalizations on professions is well within my right to do so.

Or is it OK for mdgiles to argue the forced deportation of all muslims, but not for me to very obviously point out that professional athletes are overpaid?  Is it OK for conservatives to complain about pornography, prostitution, drugs, and various other private lives of individuals, but not for me to do the same?

2. The more professional athletes are paid, the more they are worshiped, which leads to increased anti-intellectualism in American culture, which leads to decreased emphasis and appreciation of the sciences, which leads to decreased innovation and progress in those fields, which affects us all negatively.  So it's certainly a topic that merits conversation.

I see, in other words, you're just jealous that someone make a gazillion dollars, for something you consider worthless.
So am I to take it you have a disdain for Capitalism as well?

Quote from: Sci Fi Fan on July 29, 2012, 05:48:52 PM
Here's my list.

Underpaid:

Soldiers
Scientists
Teachers
Nurses
Firefighters
.

heres my list

Soldiers
Police Officers
Nurses
Firefighters
Overpaid
Politicians

Quote from: Sci Fi Fan on July 30, 2012, 02:58:58 PM

2. The more professional athletes are paid, the more they are worshiped, which leads to increased anti-intellectualism in American culture, which leads to decreased emphasis and appreciation of the sciences, which leads to decreased innovation and progress in those fields, which affects us all negatively.  So it's certainly a topic that merits conversation.

Now THAT is completely ass-backwards. Correctly stated, the more professional athletes are "worshiped," the more they are paid. I'm not saying it's a good thing or a bad thing, but what you're saying is, um, bullshit.