Quote from: taxed on July 09, 2017, 02:14:07 PM
Sure.  How will you live comfortably?  How will you protect it?  I just want to know, because a bunch of friends of mine will come by and take all your stuff.

I have the right do defend my life, home and things, just like everyone else, and as long as I am not the one initiating violence, I am morally allowed to use what force is necessary to defend myself and my things. And you are implying that people will immediately start stealing form people because we don't have laws (words written on paper) to prevent them from stealing. Just because we dont have tax collectors to steal our money and police to violently enforce laws if we do not comply with them, nobody will be able to function, and everyone will start committing immoral acts. That is just absurd.

Quote from: Jschrades on July 09, 2017, 02:10:36 PM
Why do you believe we need government? Why do you think that people can not interact with each other voluntarily?

Seriously? Look around outside your little suburban bubble, people are killing one another for no reason, Marxists want to destroy this nation as well, which is why the Dim party created Black Lies Matters, KKK, why they align with CPUSA, and any number of racist and hate groups, yes, they, just like you, want anarchy.
I want the rule of law so children can safely play outside, that mothers can shop safely at the store to feed their family when their father gets home from a hard days work.
Think about that. You claim that we fall for lies, yet here you are playing right into their hands.
Do you really want to subject your mother to a society where everything she cares about is in danger or threat?

Quote from: Solar on July 09, 2017, 02:19:06 PM
Seriously? Look around outside your little suburban bubble, people are killing one another for no reason, Marxists want to destroy this nation as well, which is why the Dim party created Black Lies Matters, KKK, why they align with CPUSA, and any number of racist and hate groups, yes, they, just like you, want anarchy.
I want the rule of law so children can safely play outside, that mothers can shop safely at the store to feed their family when their father gets home from a hard days work.
Think about that. You claim that we fall for lies, yet here you are playing right into their hands.
Do you really want to subject your mother to a society where everything she cares about is in danger or threat?

"If men were angels, no government would be necessary". -James Madison Federalist 51. I assume you have all read the federalist papers, and if you have not, you really should. I am assuming that you have a very similar viewpoint to Madison, and that you believe that most people are bad in nature. Madison states that we need government because people are not perfect. So because we are not perfect and cant be trusted to live our own lives, we need to have all of these irresponsible people vote and elevate one irresponsible person to immense power to control everyone else. Think about how stupid that is.

Quote from: Jschrades on July 09, 2017, 02:18:52 PM
I have the right do defend my life, home and things,

You're right, and I have the right to take it.  You don't have a deed or anything on your area, and I really like the fire pit you have set up, so I'm just going to take it.

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just like everyone else, and as long as I am not the one initiating violence, I am morally allowed to use what force is necessary to defend myself and my things.

I agree.  I like a fighter...  makes it fun...

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And you are implying that people will immediately start stealing form people because we don't have laws (words written on paper) to prevent them from stealing.

Immediately?  Depends how hungry they are.

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Just because we dont have tax collectors to steal our money

We don't need income taxes.  The IRS should be abolished.

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and police to violently enforce laws if we do not comply with them,

I'm OK with police enforcing the law...

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nobody will be able to function, and everyone will start committing immoral acts. That is just absurd.

Not everybody.  Some will be nice and peaceful.  Others will try and take what they want.  If someone doesn't have respect for one's private property while we have laws, why would they when there are no laws?

Quote from: taxed on July 09, 2017, 02:24:15 PM
You're right, and I have the right to take it.  You don't have a deed or anything on your area, and I really like the fire pit you have set up, so I'm just going to take it.
I agree.  I like a fighter...  makes it fun...
Immediately?  Depends how hungry they are.
We don't need income taxes.  The IRS should be abolished.
I'm OK with that.
Not everybody.  Some will be nice and peaceful.  Others will try and take what they want.  If someone doesn't have respect for one's private property while we have laws, why would they when there are no laws?

Can we both agree that most people will not do what you are saying? And remember that you can hire people to protect you if you really find it necessary, because all of those services will be privatized. In addition, you should know that its not much different that what is going on now. We have property taxes mortgages ect, and if I fail to pay them, my house and everything is taken away. In the anarchist society, the only threat to my land and things are evil people, and when you look at the world, you can see that most people do not want violence. You can see that when people get into car crashes. Most of them are peaceful and each person just exchanges information, sometimes they may yell at each other, and even fewer times they may get into a physical fight, but it very rarely escalates past that.

Quote from: Jschrades on July 09, 2017, 02:24:14 PM
"If men were angels, no government would be necessary". -James Madison Federalist 51. I assume you have all read the federalist papers, and if you have not, you really should. I am assuming that you have a very similar viewpoint to Madison, and that you believe that most people are bad in nature. Madison states that we need government because people are not perfect. So because we are not perfect and cant be trusted to live our own lives, we need to have all of these irresponsible people vote and elevate one irresponsible person to immense power to control everyone else. Think about how stupid that is.

Are you smarter than James Madison?

Quote from: taxed on July 09, 2017, 02:29:23 PM
Are you smarter than James Madison?

I am saying he had the wrong Ideas.

Quote from: Jschrades on July 09, 2017, 02:24:14 PM
"If men were angels, no government would be necessary". -James Madison Federalist 51. I assume you have all read the federalist papers, and if you have not, you really should.

We're Conservatives, all Conservatives see it as a requisite.

QuoteI am assuming that you have a very similar viewpoint to Madison, and that you believe that most people are bad in nature.

No, you are reading his statement wrong. He never said he believes most people are bad.

QuoteMadison states that we need government because people are not perfect. So because we are not perfect and cant be trusted to live our own lives, we need to have all of these irresponsible people vote and elevate one irresponsible person to immense power to control everyone else. Think about how stupid that is.

Again you butcher the meaning of our Founding documents.
Do you even know why we have a Bill of Rights, or why we have a Constitution?
Obviously not, because you just spouted the exact opposite of its existence. They created it so the States would have control, not the other way around.
We have only ourselves and those generations before us who grew govt to what it is today, which is why it is our responsibility to purge the party's of Marxists, yes, both party's, and most importantly the gop'E.

Quote from: Jschrades on July 09, 2017, 02:29:13 PM
Can we both agree that most people will not do what you are saying? And remember that you can hire people to protect you if you really find it necessary, because all of those services will be privatized. In addition, you should know that its not much different that what is going on now. We have property taxes mortgages ect, and if I fail to pay them, my house and everything is taken away. In the anarchist society, the only threat to my land and things are evil people, and when you look at the world, you can see that most people do not want violence. You can see that when people get into car crashes. Most of them are peaceful and each person just exchanges information, sometimes they may yell at each other, and even fewer times they may get into a physical fight, but it very rarely escalates past that.

I also understand the argument you are trying to make, but lets be honest, you are misrepresenting the number of people that will come to take my stuff. Ask your neighbors, if there were no rules, would they go to some random persons house and steal all of their stuff or any of their stuff, just because.

Quote from: Jschrades on July 09, 2017, 02:29:13 PM
Can we both agree that most people will not do what you are saying?

I see you don't live Chicago, Illinois. 

Quote from: Jschrades on July 09, 2017, 02:29:13 PM
Can we both agree that most people will not do what you are saying?

I can't agree, because I don't know.  I think people will be forced to hunker down at first and figure out what's going on.  The scenario you talk about will happen, sooner than later if we get an EMP attack, volcano eruption, or some such scenario that isn't beyond the real of possibility.  After that, people's hunger and desire to live take priority over any feelings you might have.  Invaders have been raiding and pillaging villages and communities all over the world since the beginning of time.  I don't want that.  I like knowing my property is my property, protected by the enforcement of law.

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And remember that you can hire people to protect you if you really find it necessary,

How?  With what money?  Also, I have that right now.  It's called "the police".

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because all of those services will be privatized.

I'll get more people and just take all your stuff, and force your security to work for me.

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In addition, you should know that its not much different that what is going on now. We have property taxes mortgages ect, and if I fail to pay them, my house and everything is taken away.

All I have to do is be halfway productive in our society and that won't happen.  You are making the mistake of using income taxes as a justification for your stupid system.  Most of us on this forum think the IRS should be abolished and the Sixteenth Amendment be repealed.

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In the anarchist society, the only threat to my land and things are evil people, and when you look at the world, you can see that most people do not want violence. You can see that when people get into car crashes. Most of them are peaceful and each person just exchanges information, sometimes they may yell at each other, and even fewer times they may get into a physical fight, but it very rarely escalates past that.

That's sweet.  I'll remember that as I take all your cattle and rape the women in your village.  I hope you have blonds...

Quote from: Jschrades on July 09, 2017, 02:36:26 PM

I also understand the argument you are trying to make, but lets be honest, you are misrepresenting the number of people that will come to take my stuff. Ask your neighbors, if there were no rules, would they go to some random persons house and steal all of their stuff or any of their stuff, just because.

It happens with rules and laws.  Why would it not happen without?

Quote from: Solar on July 09, 2017, 02:34:55 PM
We're Conservatives, all Conservatives see it as a requisite.No, you are reading his statement wrong. He never said he believes most people are bad.
Again you butcher the meaning of our Founding documents.
Do you even know why we have a Bill of Rights, or why we have a Constitution?
Obviously not, because you just spouted the exact opposite of its existence. They created it so the States would have control, not the other way around.
We have only ourselves and those generations before us who grew govt to what it is today, which is why it is our responsibility to purge the party's of Marxists, yes, both party's, and most importantly the gop'E.

You can not go back to the constitution and the bill of rights, it didn't work, and going back to it wont work either. That is doing the same thing again and expecting different results.

Quote from: taxed on July 09, 2017, 02:38:12 PM
It happens with rules and laws.  Why would it not happen without?

You are blowing the number of bad people completely out of proportion.

Quote from: Jschrades on July 09, 2017, 02:29:13 PM
Can we both agree that most people will not do what you are saying?

Absolutely not! When shit hits the fan, and it will, people will be out for themselves, only, get in my way and you die, quickly, that's the law of the jungle and survival.
.

QuoteAnd remember that you can hire people to protect you if you really find it necessary, because all of those services will be privatized.

And your armed security force will outnumber you and take what you have.

In addition, you should know that its not much different that what is going on now. We have property taxes mortgages ect, and if I fail to pay them, my house and everything is taken away. In the anarchist society, the only threat to my land and things are evil people, and when you look at the world, you can see that most people do not want violence.
Why are you under the illusion they'll fight on your terms? Hell, if I want to kill you, I'll just burn you out. just sayin...

QuoteYou can see that when people get into car crashes. Most of them are peaceful and each person just exchanges information, sometimes they may yell at each other, and even fewer times they may get into a physical fight, but it very rarely escalates past that.

Wow, I seriously suggest y ou crack a history book.