No links in this one, kids, just me ramblin'.
It occurs to me that if everything comes to pass with regard to KenyaCare that its opponents anticipate will come to pass, we simply cannot lose by using KenyaCare as a single-issue litmus test, especially with regard to the Senate races. All we have to do is publicly ask a single question of each Democrat candidate running for re-election, and ask that same question over and over and over. "Did you vote for KenyaCare?" Of course, we already know the answer, but the whole idea is to force ownership of KenyaCare on each one. I can't remember where I read it the other day, but it was a suggestion that EVERY Democrat senator running for re-election next year can be legitimately said to have "cast the key vote needed for passage of KenyaCare," or "Without Dem XYZ's vote, KenyaCare would not have become law."
Of course, after each "yes" answer -- assuming you can squeeze one out -- the obvious followup question is, "Did you read the bill before you voted for it?" In every case, the truthful answer is most certainly "no," but there may be one or two who will claim that they read most of it, or had their staffs prepare summaries. Either way, they cannot win.
In the event of a "No" answer -- "Are you telling us, sir/madam, that you voted for the most sweeping and potentially damaging social and economic legislation in the past half-century without even reading it?"
In the event of a "Yes" answer -- "Are you telling us, sir/madam, that you knew the extent of the damage KenyaCare would do to the economy and to the health care security of tens of millions of Americans, and you voted for it anyway?
Debbie Blabbermouth Sluts keeps claiming that Dems can and should run on KenyaCare next year. We can only hope they take her advice.
I think you pretty-much framed what's gonna happen. Dems are trying the twisted-logic explanations right now, and none of them have any traction.
The I agreed with the spirit of the bill excuse is the one I've heard most. But how did they know what the 'spirit' was? They didn't read it. We're witnessing what the spirit is... adding 5.6-million more uninsured to the 30-million uninsured, with milllions more a'comin'.
It should be more than a litmus test... it should be the silver bullet, the cyanide pill. Don't forget that this angle was hammered pretty hard during the 2012 election and, if only the pile of poop was steaming as it is now and the collateral damage being felt then as it is now, the results may have been different.
While I agree that is the way it should be, you forget that the Republicans never do anything to help themselves for fear they will hurt someone's feelings. :cursing:
Quote from: bigmck on December 08, 2013, 06:23:08 PM
While I agree that is the way it should be, you forget that the Republicans never do anything to help themselves for fear they will hurt someone's feelings. :cursing:
True. And, as I mentioned in a related thread, they had better move away from the old guard (just save my seat) RINOS and be to wrestle in the mud. Don't kid yourself for a minute that the GOP, TEA or otherwise will find an easy path to wins in the 2012 or 2016... their base, while openly crying foul now, are still ideologues who have been conditioned to love the free lunch and those who provide it.
LOL KenyaCare
Democrats are running from it like a barn fire, and it's only going to get worse as America feels the full brunt of Obamacare dysfunction.
Quote from: LIAMD on December 08, 2013, 07:27:18 PM
True. And, as I mentioned in a related thread, they had better move away from the old guard (just save my seat) RINOS and be to wrestle in the mud. Don't kid yourself for a minute that the GOP, TEA or otherwise will find an easy path to wins in the 2012 or 2016... their base, while openly crying foul now, are still ideologues who have been conditioned to love the free lunch and those who provide it.
You forget, many of those drawing the government cheese are unemployed - due to Obozo screwing up the economy. What they want to hear is someone who can give them a job - and their dreams back. They are not all ideologues. Even the youths that once supported him are enraged over him destroying their future. AND they have finally realized TANSTAAFL, even if Obozo wipes out their student debts, it will simply add to the public debt - which they will have to pay back. the Dems main support in 2014 will be ideologues, government workers and inner city blacks (there are some things my people never seem to learn).
Quote from: mdgiles on December 08, 2013, 08:04:49 PMEven the youths that once supported him are enraged over him destroying their future.
And not to mention healthcare freedoms... I am 26 and not depending on my parents. Now I must subsidize others' health or be fined. I'll take the fine. Let the Obamacare system collapse.
Quote from: Montesquieu on December 08, 2013, 08:11:22 PM
And not to mention healthcare freedoms... I am 26 and not depending on my parents. Now I must subsidize others' health or be fined. I'll take the fine. Let the Obamacare system collapse.
Remember under Obamacare you can always get insurance when you need it. There no such thing as Pre Existing Conditions for health care.
Quote from: walkstall on December 08, 2013, 08:23:53 PM
Remember under Obamacare you can always get insurance when you need it. There no such thing as Pre Existing Conditions for health care.
I feel cheated just by virtue of the failure to rein in healthcare costs, nevermind everything else. Once the system is fair to me, I will participate in the system.
Quote from: walkstall on December 08, 2013, 08:23:53 PM
Remember under Obamacare you can always get insurance when you need it. There no such thing as Pre Existing Conditions for health care.
I am wondering if it is really going to be that way. -- Medicare covers Pre-Existing when you first enroll. If you drop coverage and attempt to sign up again or attempt to switch to a different plan, they then can turn you down for health reasons. I would think it would have to be the same. They can't allow someone to buy insurance on the way to the hospital.
Quote from: Montesquieu on December 08, 2013, 08:28:05 PM
I feel cheated just by virtue of the failure to rein in healthcare costs, nevermind everything else. Once the system is fair to me, I will participate in the system.
Good luck son, it will not happen in your life time.
The monkey will always be on your back.
You sound like you may become a Conservative by age 30. LOL
(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSueUMRMgGeoN3B5cbtdL-dWBUPDCDFGp38sUbT_R4wIIuTLn5w)
Quote from: walkstall on December 08, 2013, 08:41:13 PM
Good luck son, it will not happen in your life time.
The monkey will always be on your back.
I'm not so sure. People are going to get sick of the Marxist trends and there will be a conservative correction soon. It is inevitable just as the fall of Communism in Eastern Europe was.
QuoteYou sound like you may become a Conservative by age 30. LOL
You do me a great honor.
Quote from: Montesquieu on December 08, 2013, 08:28:05 PM
I feel cheated just by virtue of the failure to rein in healthcare costs, nevermind everything else. Once the system is fair to me, I will participate in the system.
KenyaCare is what "fairness" looks like to those inside the beltway. It is "fairness" conceived, designed, passed, and signed into law exclusively by lib/prog Democrats. If you're waiting for a different flavor of "fairness," I fear you have a very long wait ahead of you.
I'm 58, currently uninsured, and I will never -- never -- buy health insurance through a KenyaCare exchange, no matter how much "fairness" the ruling class deigns to bequeath upon us.
Quote from: Montesquieu on December 08, 2013, 08:28:05 PM
"I feel cheated just by virtue of the failure to rein in healthcare costs, nevermind everything else. Once the system is fair to me, I will participate in the system."
I am interested in what your friends and associates in you are saying about the ACA?
Thanks,
Quote from: TboneAgain on December 09, 2013, 12:16:27 PM
KenyaCare is what "fairness" looks like to those inside the beltway. It is "fairness" conceived, designed, passed, and signed into law exclusively by lib/prog Democrats.
Do you remember when Congressional Democrats ventured into the unknown wilds of their home districts to tout the wonders of the new health care system they were about to force upon their constituents?
I saw a clip where a lady in the audience summed it up perfectly. She told the Congressman: "Your job is to supposed to be to go to Washington and represent our interests to them. But you're doing the exact OPPOSITE of that; you're coming here and trying to convince us to go along with what Washington wants to do."
That was back in Obama's first year; when he seemed to have all of Congress (Democrats and Republicans alike) in thrall. He told them to go out and do this, and they did it. They didn't stop for a second to realize what a horrible PR disaster it would actually turn out to be.
I would love to believe this health care debacle (you call it KenyaCare appropriately) will bring Democrats down.
But, they've still got a powerful ally in the media, who are already backpedaling to spin his words another way.
Republicans can't seem to get out of their own way when a gift is handed to them. I have little faith in my fellow citizen to realize where the problem comes from and to vote against it anymore.
I hope I'm wrong!!
DaisyJane
The GOP was the minority party too long and became comfortable being the one blamed for "obstructionism" rather than blamed for mistakes as the majority. They compromised themselves into irrelevancy.
Quote from: TboneAgain on December 09, 2013, 12:16:27 PM
KenyaCare is what "fairness" looks like to those inside the beltway. It is "fairness" conceived, designed, passed, and signed into law exclusively by lib/prog Democrats. If you're waiting for a different flavor of "fairness," I fear you have a very long wait ahead of you.
I'm 58, currently uninsured, and I will never -- never -- buy health insurance through a KenyaCare exchange, no matter how much "fairness" the ruling class deigns to bequeath upon us.
Read: Part of the problem.
Quote from: Con4Evar on December 09, 2013, 03:39:49 PM
Read: Part of the problem.
Actually it is because he likes his freedom.
Quote from: DaisyJane on December 09, 2013, 02:20:13 PM
I would love to believe this health care debacle (you call it KenyaCare appropriately) will bring Democrats down.
But, they've still got a powerful ally in the media, who are already backpedaling to spin his words another way.
Republicans can't seem to get out of their own way when a gift is handed to them. I have little faith in my fellow citizen to realize where the problem comes from and to vote against it anymore.
I hope I'm wrong!!
DaisyJane
I agree your analysis is a repeat of what has happened in the past. I believe this one is different. The ACA impacts folks and their bank accounts personally. If one's premium doubled and deductibles triple no MSM spin can overcome that.
Yep, the media can't run from the reality. If obamacare hadn't been rolled-out yet, we'd still be witnessing their love affair with Ogoober. But now they're risking losing big-time ad revenue if they ignore the horror. People want information about this mess as a way of seeking fellowship with other Americans caught-up in it.
The storm last weekend is an example. A news-outlet attempting to ignore the storm as it's happening = zero viewership.
Quote from: TboneAgain on December 08, 2013, 03:13:37 PM
No links in this one, kids, just me ramblin'.
It occurs to me that if everything comes to pass with regard to KenyaCare that its opponents anticipate will come to pass, we simply cannot lose by using KenyaCare as a single-issue litmus test, especially with regard to the Senate races. All we have to do is publicly ask a single question of each Democrat candidate running for re-election, and ask that same question over and over and over. "Did you vote for KenyaCare?" Of course, we already know the answer, but the whole idea is to force ownership of KenyaCare on each one. I can't remember where I read it the other day, but it was a suggestion that EVERY Democrat senator running for re-election next year can be legitimately said to have "cast the key vote needed for passage of KenyaCare," or "Without Dem XYZ's vote, KenyaCare would not have become law."
Of course, after each "yes" answer -- assuming you can squeeze one out -- the obvious followup question is, "Did you read the bill before you voted for it?" In every case, the truthful answer is most certainly "no," but there may be one or two who will claim that they read most of it, or had their staffs prepare summaries. Either way, they cannot win.
In the event of a "No" answer -- "Are you telling us, sir/madam, that you voted for the most sweeping and potentially damaging social and economic legislation in the past half-century without even reading it?"
In the event of a "Yes" answer -- "Are you telling us, sir/madam, that you knew the extent of the damage KenyaCare would do to the economy and to the health care security of tens of millions of Americans, and you voted for it anyway?
Debbie Blabbermouth Sluts keeps claiming that Dems can and should run on KenyaCare next year. We can only hope they take her advice.
And if it isn't working, you might win the Senate. In the meantime, 'KENYA CARE', pro or con ain't gonna help your 'woman' problem. That one might well be LURKING below the surface.
Quote from: cpicturetaker12 on December 10, 2013, 10:41:08 AM
And if it isn't working, you might win the Senate. In the meantime, 'KENYA CARE', pro or con ain't gonna help your 'woman' problem. That one might well be LURKING below the surface.
My "woman problem?" Would you care to elaborate on that?
Quote from: cpicturetaker12 on December 10, 2013, 10:41:08 AM
And if it isn't working, you might win the Senate. In the meantime, 'KENYA CARE', pro or con ain't gonna help your 'woman' problem. That one might well be LURKING below the surface.
Are you suggesting that women will be unfazed by the failings of Obamacare? That seems somewhat sexist.
Quote from: supsalemgr on December 10, 2013, 11:20:27 AM
Are you suggesting that women will be unfazed by the failings of Obamacare? That seems somewhat sexist.
So that's what he meant? Typical sexist, misogynists, racist lib.
Quote from: Solar on December 10, 2013, 11:25:35 AM
So that's what he meant? Typical sexist, misogynists, racist lib.
They can't help it. Their true feelings are exposed from time to time. This one was obvious to me. His thoughts are, "We own the women and their minds because we will provide birth control and ways to kill their babies". What he didn't consider is women are decision makers when it comes to finances and healthcare so they will know what Obamacare has done to them.
Quote from: supsalemgr on December 10, 2013, 12:18:27 PM
They can't help it. Their true feelings are exposed from time to time. This one was obvious to me. His thoughts are, "We own the women and their minds because we will provide birth control and ways to kill their babies". What he didn't consider is women are decision makers when it comes to finances and healthcare so they will know what Obamacare has done to them.
Bingo!!! Women may make emotional decisions, but when it comes to the family budget, critical thinking kicks in.
The Dims not only insulted the female vote while taking it for granted, they have literally lost it in one cycle.
Well let's look at it from the standpoint of what we know as fact will happen.
December 23rd the enrollment period for insurance on January 1'st ends with millions not have been able to purchase coverage.
January 1'st millions wake up knowing they have no coverage and an untold number of people think they have coverage but don't because of the website "glitches". So millions will be at risk of serious financial trouble due to medical costs.
As more people gain coverage or enroll there will be many more stories of "sticker shock?
As the March deadline for enrollment approaches we see more stories of desperate people trying to gain coverage.
As the majority of people continue to enroll in Medicaid the financial pressure will strengthen. We will have CBO reports of the exploding costs of Obamacare in the short term and it being unsustainable in the long term.
By September the next round of cancellation notices will begin going out which will dwarf what we say over the last few months.
By this time there will be exponentially more uninsured than have been insured by Obamacare.
There is no way the Democrats can avoid this or pin this and it will not go away.
The GOP has to do one thing and one thing only. Have their own plan for health care reform (there are several) and make sure they get the word out. But now is not the time. Let it all play out until next year. They begin a PR blitz with a logical common sense plan.
January first, a second Christmas. O'Commiecare, the gift that keeps on giving.....
To the Right.
Quote from: Solar on December 10, 2013, 04:01:30 PM
January first, a second Christmas. O'Commiecare, the gift that keeps on giving.....
To the Right.
It's
GOP idiot proof
Quote from: The Boo Man... on December 10, 2013, 05:31:29 PM
It's GOP idiot proof
:lol:
God knows the GOP are waiting for an opportunity to help the enemy, in hopes of being liked by their media.
Quote from: Solar on December 10, 2013, 05:34:25 PM
:lol:
God knows the GOP are waiting for an opportunity to help the enemy, in hopes of being liked by their media.
True but I don't think they can. Things are that good. Unless they...yeah they probably can get democrats reelected.
The GOP reminds me of this British show I saw. This man was running for Mayor and his dim witted son went door to door soliciting votes. He unwittingly went to the his father's opponent's house who invited him in and as the son talked up his father he was helping his fathers opponent stuff envelopes with campaign leaflets and then helped him deliver them throughout the village.
Quote from: The Boo Man... on December 10, 2013, 05:40:21 PM
True but I don't think they can. Things are that good. Unless they...yeah they probably can get democrats reelected.
The GOP reminds me of this British show I saw. This man was running for Mayor and his dim witted son went door to door soliciting votes. He unwittingly went to the his father's opponent's house who invited him in and as the son talked up his father he was helping his fathers opponent stuff envelopes with campaign leaflets and then helped him deliver them throughout the village.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Quote from: The Boo Man... on December 10, 2013, 03:31:14 PM
Well let's look at it from the standpoint of what we know as fact will happen.
December 23rd the enrollment period for insurance on January 1'st ends with millions not have been able to purchase coverage.
January 1'st millions wake up knowing they have no coverage and an untold number of people think they have coverage but don't because of the website "glitches". So millions will be at risk of serious financial trouble due to medical costs.
As more people gain coverage or enroll there will be many more stories of "sticker shock?
As the March deadline for enrollment approaches we see more stories of desperate people trying to gain coverage.
As the majority of people continue to enroll in Medicaid the financial pressure will strengthen. We will have CBO reports of the exploding costs of Obamacare in the short term and it being unsustainable in the long term.
By September the next round of cancellation notices will begin going out which will dwarf what we say over the last few months.
By this time there will be exponentially more uninsured than have been insured by Obamacare.
There is no way the Democrats can avoid this or pin this and it will not go away.
The GOP has to do one thing and one thing only. Have their own plan for health care reform (there are several) and make sure they get the word out. But now is not the time. Let it all play out until next year. They begin a PR blitz with a logical common sense plan.
"The GOP has to do one thing and one thing only. Have their own plan for health care reform (there are several) and make sure they get the word out. But now is not the time. Let it all play out until next year. They begin a PR blitz with a logical common sense plan."
The GOP should have their plan put together and ready for prime time. However, don't bring it out until Obama asks for it. He has a tendency in his campaign speeches to ask the GOP to bring him their plan. By timing it this way it would force the MSM to cover it.
Patience is always a virtue.
Quote from: The Boo Man... on December 10, 2013, 03:31:14 PM
Well let's look at it from the standpoint of what we know as fact will happen.
December 23rd the enrollment period for insurance on January 1'st ends with millions not have been able to purchase coverage.
January 1'st millions wake up knowing they have no coverage and an untold number of people think they have coverage but don't because of the website "glitches". So millions will be at risk of serious financial trouble due to medical costs.
As more people gain coverage or enroll there will be many more stories of "sticker shock?
As the March deadline for enrollment approaches we see more stories of desperate people trying to gain coverage.
As the majority of people continue to enroll in Medicaid the financial pressure will strengthen. We will have CBO reports of the exploding costs of Obamacare in the short term and it being unsustainable in the long term.
By September the next round of cancellation notices will begin going out which will dwarf what we say over the last few months.
By this time there will be exponentially more uninsured than have been insured by Obamacare.
There is no way the Democrats can avoid this or pin this and it will not go away.
The GOP has to do one thing and one thing only. Have their own plan for health care reform (there are several) and make sure they get the word out. But now is not the time. Let it all play out until next year. They begin a PR blitz with a logical common sense plan.
You forgot one detail. Those folks who find themselves uninsured next year will also find themselves liable for a
penalty tax levied for their being uninsured -- money paid to the government in return for... nothing.
Quote from: Solar on December 10, 2013, 05:34:25 PM
:lol:
God knows the GOP are waiting for an opportunity to help the enemy, in hopes of being liked by their media.
They have mastered the ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
We are already seeing the impact of Obamacare. The dem congressman from Utah has dropped out of the race against Mia Love. Just think about this. A White guy in Utah with a cpnservative record for a dem drops out against a Black female in UTAH. Why? He has a "d" after his name and his opponent is a true conservative. A winning combination.
Quote from: Ulsterking on December 18, 2013, 09:08:29 PM
They have mastered the ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
Yep, then spin it with the help of the leftist media as "compromise", reaching across the isle in hopes of being granted a nickname such as Maverick, or a moderate that can reach across and be anointed the next savior of the GOP.
When in truth, the left is culling the strong from the herd, while propping up the castrated for the purpose of breeding.
The skill with which the left have mastered this takeover is really quite impressive, they shepherd the RINO like sheep to the slaughter with false promises of power, power the leftist puppet masters wield.
I know, as far out as that seems to most, it is our reality, we are merely living the illusion that's been created and that's why the TEA is such a threat, the people are on the precipice seizing power from the leftists.