In a response to a recent blog of mine on another website the author alleged that law enforcement is not properly serving the black communities. However, as a 29 year veteran of law enforcement at three different cities, two of which I was the Chief of Police, let me tell you some of what I learned in my career.
Back in the 1970's I wrote one of the first accepted Affirmative Action Plans for the recruitment of police from minorities communities in South Florida. What I discovered, despite major efforts at recruitment at high schools, colleges and other venues, was that most members of the black community DID NOT WANT TO BE POLICE OFFICERS. I had a very intelligent black female working for me in my records unit who was a single mother. If she had become a police officer her salary would have doubled. She would not take the job I offered due to pressure from her black community that considered black police officers to be traitors.
Of the black officers we did recruit the facts were that a much larger percentage of them than whites became involved in serious misconduct or outright crime like extorting drug dealers. Here are just a few of the examples. In one case an officer I went through the police academy with became an armed robber. In another case a black Sergeant, who was the son of a doctor, became a drug addict and engaged in warning drug dealers of police raids. Another black officer repeatedly engaged in illicit sexual conduct on duty.
In my three departments I was very successful in implementing community oriented policing programs. This was due to the fact that most neighborhoods wanted to improve the safety of their community. However, despite all our efforts to implement community oriented policing in the black communities only a very small minority was willing to participate. As the old saying relates you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make them drink.
The often misunderstood "Broken Windows" theme of policing has repeatedly shown its effects of reducing crime. Simply put, what it involves is both police and code enforcement units making sure that the physical environment of an area and open law breaking like drinking in public and drug dealing are not permitted to occur since this type of situation has a demonstrated effect on an increase in other crime. However, liberals have railed against such programs and in many places like NYC where crime had been significantly reduced the problems have been allowed to return with a resultant increase in crime. When communities refuse to assist the police and politicians prohibit police from engaging in what they term "aggressive" policing techniques is it any wonder that police are relegated to being reactive?
The other fact ignored is that hard statistics show that the black community as a whole is simply much more prone to commit crimes, in many cases violent crimes. Just look at the news coverage of the past few weeks to see that virtually all of the horrific crimes being covered were done by black suspects. While there are multiple social and environmental causal factors like the lack of a stable family environment for many blacks likely causing this criminality the FACT remains that it exists? Pretending that the white community or the police are totally at fault in these communities is simply playing the victim card, which seems to be the theme of the day for Progressive politicians and race baiters like Al Sharpton.
Until the politician stop throwing money at what is really a social problem and the black community cleans up their own act and starts to participate in a active way by not rationalizing away this high crime rate and working to improve both their communities and their family social structure no giveaway programs or attacks on law enforcement are going to improve their situation.
Sorry, you lost me when you claimed to have written one of the first accepted Affirmative Action plans for hiring police officers.
Affirmative Action is merely government sponsored racism.
IMHO... of course.
Quote from: Darth Fife on May 24, 2015, 05:07:30 PM
Sorry, you lost me when you claimed to have written one of the first accepted Affirmative Action plans for hiring police officers.
Affirmative Action is merely government sponsored racism.
IMHO... of course.
He didn't say he supported it but remember in Florida if he was directed to it would be his responsibility to do it as chief of police! Sometime you are required to do things you may not agree with personally!
Quote from: redbeard on May 24, 2015, 05:15:05 PM
He didn't say he supported it but remember in Florida if he was directed to it would be his responsibility to do it as chief of police! Sometime you are required to do things you may not agree with personally!
You're correct Red. And that's when I resign.
Quote from: Darth Fife on May 24, 2015, 05:07:30 PM
Sorry, you lost me when you claimed to have written one of the first accepted Affirmative Action plans for hiring police officers.
Affirmative Action is merely government sponsored racism.
IMHO... of course.
I'm sure he is addressing the madates of EEOC requirements. This is not a wanna do; it's a gotta do.
On the other foot, knowing the law makes these "madates" cut both ways. Some see them as giving them carte blanche to intimidate superviors, while a supervisor that knows and understands the requirements of the law, ad yes...write the policy & procedures, lesson plans and then train it...it well equipted to deal with the abuses of these often abused laws, ruloes and regulations.
If the law is to be respected, it must first be obeyed by those who are sworn to uphold it. We didn't make the law, our job is enforcement! It's too damn bad, our POTUS doesn't take his oath as seriously as we who wore the uniform did (do).
Then again, when I worked my way up through the ranks to achieve an administrative position, I found that a day without a lawsuit is like a day without sunshine! It's why they pay you the big buck...(yeah, right)
First Chief let me be among the first to welcome you aboard, I was a 25 year Cop in Wash DC, served as an investigator, retired at the Rank of Lieutenant and went into private security.
I know exactly what you are talking about, Wash DC Dept. actively tried to recruit Black Police officers in increasing numbers during the 70's & 80's.....without a lot of success....the job in its best ratio and proportion in the 80 and 90's when I retired probably never got over 60% That's in a city that was around 75% Black.
As an investigator working with a Black partner, I often sensed the outright hostility a black officer was subject to....the feeling was...'we can understand the white boy....but you a brother working against your own people, you the white mans dog....an Uncle tom' etc etc. Lots of scout car teams, (usually "salt and Pepper") a black and white officer had similar experiences.
And while I saw lots of Bad Black cops, I probably saw worse white ones. I got two fired who were working under me as a Sergeant in the Narcotics unit....stealing. But in some cases, the Idiot Marion Barry Regime lowered the standards so that the Dept was forced to take former criminals with records as recruits, this was the begining of the deterioration of the Police Dept. We had people coming on the dept SENT BY DRUG DEALERS. These guys did all kinds of crime, that's when I realized it was time to take the pension and get the hell out.
A lot of the "thug" lifestyle, was ingrained in the Black community, lots of money to be made, greed makes everybody crazy. Need I recall how DC set homicide records for about three years in a row in the early 90's. Then again you had the example of the Barry Regime, more corrupt than a 3rd world banana republic. ANyhow, I draw parralels between Barry and Obamao.
This current marxist wants to undermine and diminish law enforcement in this country and replace Law enforcement with his own 'civilian corps' of nationalist thugs loyal to him. You are seeing steps to disarm the police, Obamao just pulled that this week, he wants to take away basically DEFENSIVE EQUIPMENT.
The other thing you are seeing is increasing attacks against police officers, this has a double whammy effect, cops are going to be on edge, possibly more quick to pull that trigger, more controversial shootings....the other part is more indictments against cops for using force, more hesitant for Cops to get involved in proactive law enforcement , or worse, hesitant to use defensive force, resulting in more police deaths, more on edge, worse and worse, both play into this regimes hands. Its going to be a bad summer. More reasons for the "justice" dept to get involved in State/local Law Enforcement.
Quote from: Solar on May 24, 2015, 05:47:32 PM
You're correct Red. And that's when I resign.
resigning over a court order doesn't accomplish anything better to comply and preform the minimum required while fighting the order! If you resign and someone more liberal takes over they will take the compliance to the other extreme! Baltimore is a good example where the police leadership is just rolling over for the liberal politicians and the street cops are left to hang in the wind!
Quote from: redbeard on May 24, 2015, 06:05:21 PM
resigning over a court order doesn't accomplish anything better to comply and preform the minimum required while fighting the order! If you resign and someone more liberal takes over they will take the compliance to the other extreme! Baltimore is a good example where the police leadership is just rolling over for the liberal politicians and the street cops are left to hang in the wind!
And how has the worked voting for Republicans? A man has to stand on his values, or sacrifice what he believes.
I have never once in my life compromised my values.
In response to the person who brought up the issue of resigning, at the time I wrote the plan I was assigned to the Planning and Research unit of the Hollywood, FL PD and was not a police chief. Additionally, this plan was the result of a mandatory court order for all law enforcement agencies as the direct result of a complaint and law suit filed with EEOC. If a person thinks that they can pick and choose which laws or court orders they choose to follow they probably do need to resign as they certainly do not need to be in law enforcement.
Quote from: Bigwater on May 25, 2015, 06:05:08 AM
In response to the person who brought up the issue of resigning, at the time I wrote the plan I was assigned to the Planning and Research unit of the Hollywood, FL PD and was not a police chief. Additionally, this plan was the result of a mandatory court order for all law enforcement agencies as the direct result of a complaint and law suit filed with EEOC. If a person thinks that they can pick and choose which laws or court orders they choose to follow they probably do need to resign as they certainly do not need to be in law enforcement.
That would be me. And yes, I too was in law enforcement and left for that very reason.
Busting people for the same thing over and over and watching the DA kick them out because of overcrowding in the jails, a backed up court log.
But the moment an officer makes a mistake, they make an example out of us. No, I could not in good conscience continue the job, so I left and went into private detective work, where people actually pay you to do whats right.
You're right, there is a dilemma, and it will take all of us to fix it through individual and concerted actions.
The railroad Baltimore put these officers should have been a wake up call for every officer in the state, they should have massed in protest.
Think about that....
I'm not attacking you, I'm angry at everyone that refuses to do what's Right.
Welcome to the forum.
Sorry I jumped down your throat, BW, but the beginning of you post started to sound like anyone of a plethora of liberal trolls we get through here. I gave your post a thorough read and agree with most of what you have to say.
Of the black officers we did recruit the facts were that a much larger percentage of them than whites became involved in serious misconduct or outright crime like extorting drug dealers. Here are just a few of the examples. In one case an officer I went through the police academy with became an armed robber. In another case a black Sergeant, who was the son of a doctor, became a drug addict and engaged in warning drug dealers of police raids. Another black officer repeatedly engaged in illicit sexual conduct on duty.
To me, this is a perfect example of why so-called Affirmative Action programs are doomed to fail. The important thing in any hiring program is to find the best candidate for the job. Not the best white candidate, or the best black candidate, or the best male candidate or the best female candidate - the best candidate, period. When you add race as a qualifier, you automatically limit the quality of the prospective recruits.
This is as true for whites as it is for blacks and, indeed, any other racial subdivision. Imagine how the NBA or the NFL would change if they had to hire white athletes in proportion to the overall national demographics!
Quote from: Darth Fife on May 24, 2015, 05:07:30 PM
Sorry, you lost me when you claimed to have written one of the first accepted Affirmative Action plans for hiring police officers.
Affirmative Action is merely government sponsored racism.
IMHO... of course.
Yeah right. And an all white police force is going to be able to do undercover work in a minority community. No matter what you think of AA, common sense demands a diverse police force.
Quote from: mdgiles on May 25, 2015, 08:23:07 AM
Yeah right. And an all white police force is going to be able to do undercover work in a minority community. No matter what you think of AA, common sense demands a diverse police force.
AA was never about diversity. It was all about Dim votes and nothing else.
Quote from: Solar on May 25, 2015, 08:38:46 AM
AA was never about diversity. It was all about Dim votes and nothing else.
Affirmative Action was started by a
REPUBLICAN President - Richard Nixon. Now you can make the case that it has outlived it's usefulness; but to say there was no reason for it in the beginning, is to ignore history, not to mention a barefaced lie. After three hundred years of slavery and a hundred years of LEGAL discrimination, blacks needed a helping hand. Now blacks mostly get blamed for all the other groups that glommed unto it.
Quote from: Bigwater on May 24, 2015, 04:28:13 PMUntil the politician stop throwing money at what is really a social problem and the black community cleans up their own act and starts to participate in a active way by not rationalizing away this high crime rate and working to improve both their communities and their family social structure no giveaway programs or attacks on law enforcement are going to improve their situation.
I agree with that. It all comes down to personal responsibility and the black community is going to have to change their culture from within. This is where we really need to support black people, especially black conservatives. I can't imagine anything harder to be in this day and age.
Quote from: Dori on May 25, 2015, 09:12:39 AM
I agree with that. It all comes down to personal responsibility and the black community is going to have to change their culture from within. This is where we really need to support black people, especially black conservatives. I can't imagine anything harder to be in this day and age.
I am tired of this.
WHAT THE FUCK IS THE "BLACK COMMUNITY"! I'm really getting tired of whites pointing at the problems of some of the Inner cities and then acting as if all blacks are unemployed, on welfare or illegitimate. Here's an idea start assuming blacks are individuals just like whites. I'm sitting in my own house, out here in the suburbs - where most blacks live (along with rural areas), typing on my own computer; wondering what the f**k this "Black Community" people are ALWAYS talking about is.
Quote from: mdgiles on May 25, 2015, 09:11:30 AM
Affirmative Action was started by a REPUBLICAN President - Richard Nixon. Now you can make the case that it has outlived it's usefulness; but to say there was no reason for it in the beginning, is to ignore history, not to mention a barefaced lie. After three hundred years of slavery and a hundred years of LEGAL discrimination, blacks needed a helping hand. Now blacks mostly get blamed for all the other groups that glommed unto it.
WRONG!!! JFK started this bull shit!
Quote from: mdgiles on May 25, 2015, 09:48:41 AM
I am tired of this. WHAT THE FUCK IS THE "BLACK COMMUNITY"! I'm really getting tired of whites pointing at the problems of some of the Inner cities and then acting as if all blacks are unemployed, on welfare or illegitimate. Here's an idea start assuming blacks are individuals just like whites. I'm sitting in my own house, out here in the suburbs - where most blacks live (along with rural areas), typing on my own computer; wondering what the f**k this "Black Community" people are ALWAYS talking about is.
You know what we mean. We're talking about the inner cities and the high crime rates and the high number of fatherless kids in those communities.
Quote from: mdgiles on May 25, 2015, 09:48:41 AM
I am tired of this. WHAT THE FUCK IS THE "BLACK COMMUNITY"! I'm really getting tired of whites pointing at the problems of some of the Inner cities and then acting as if all blacks are unemployed, on welfare or illegitimate. Here's an idea start assuming blacks are individuals just like whites. I'm sitting in my own house, out here in the suburbs - where most blacks live (along with rural areas), typing on my own computer; wondering what the f**k this "Black Community" people are ALWAYS talking about is.
The issue I see is the MSM and democrats ignore those who are hard working, loyal and productive citizens. This is by design as they must have a dependent group and it all began with LBJ.
Quote from: mdgiles on May 25, 2015, 09:48:41 AM
I am tired of this. WHAT THE FUCK IS THE "BLACK COMMUNITY"! I'm really getting tired of whites pointing at the problems of some of the Inner cities and then acting as if all blacks are unemployed, on welfare or illegitimate. Here's an idea start assuming blacks are individuals just like whites. I'm sitting in my own house, out here in the suburbs - where most blacks live (along with rural areas), typing on my own computer; wondering what the f**k this "Black Community" people are ALWAYS talking about is.
From what I can tell it's the area that white people do not feel safe in day or night. You know the area you can walk in safely alone and your white Neighbor(s) can not. It's that "Black Community"!!!!!
The black community is where white people don't dare to go.
This is the areas that needs an attitude adjustment.
Quote from: Bigwater on May 24, 2015, 04:28:13 PM
What I discovered, despite major efforts at recruitment at high schools, colleges and other venues, was that most members of the black community DID NOT WANT TO BE POLICE OFFICERS. I had a very intelligent black female working for me in my records unit who was a single mother. If she had become a police officer her salary would have doubled. She would not take the job I offered due to pressure from her black community that considered black police officers to be traitors.
Thanks for that extensive and well composed testimony, Chief Bigwater. Not the first time you've written it, no doubt.
Yeah, so there is a certain Seminole pride in the Florida black community that sets them apart from their cohorts in most of the other states, you know, never have surrendered.
I personally know of a 4th grade black child of the project who, after receiving notice that she had tested into the gifted and talented, 130 IQ, burst into tears and refused to accept it. I have often wondered if some of those tears may have been shed for the limits she had voluntarily placed on herself for the sake of pressure from the project peer group. After life beat her up a little more, did she wind up down at CFS, couple of kids in tow, signing up for assistance? I'll never know.
Not one to make excuses, but on the lookout for reasons, I think we throw all the ingredients into the grinder, turn the handle, and come out with un-named, undiagnosed
psychological profiles that seem somehow incomprehensible. I can't imagine a white, even a hardened white criminal, seeing an officer as a traitor to the race. Yet with blacks, it seems almost part of the experience.
Sheriff Clarke, Milwaukee, blames lack of consequences, lack of accountability. That is in line with addressing the whole package of damage done by liberals. Gary North claims its all a big game, Progressives achieving power and position by effectively gerrymandering the entire social fabric and ethic; and, seemingly, getting away with it.
As noted, there are several on this forum with law enforcement or military backgrounds and experience. I look forward to hearing more of this input, especially now that Al Sharpton's legions have stated their objectives.
Quote from: supsalemgr on May 25, 2015, 10:46:36 AM
The issue I see is the MSM and democrats ignore those who are hard working, loyal and productive citizens. This is by design as they must have a dependent group and it all began with LBJ.
Of course they ignore them...
Those blacks are probably voting Republican.
Quote from: darroll on May 25, 2015, 11:12:47 AM
The black community is where white people don't dare to go.
This is the areas that needs an attitude adjustment.
There are plenty of blacks who are fearful of their own communities. I knew a black family that always came to our house for holiday's etc. They told plenty of stories about hiding under their beds when the guns started ringing through the neighborhood, for fear of a bullet coming through a window or wall.
You go into certain areas of Los Angeles, you'll find all their doors and windows are covered with iron security gates. Even driving home late was scary for them. Not in my neighborhood, but in their own.
Quote from: Dori on May 25, 2015, 04:28:21 PM
There are plenty of blacks who are fearful of their own communities. I knew a black family that always came to our house for holiday's etc. They told plenty of stories about hiding under their beds when the guns started ringing through the neighborhood, for fear of a bullet coming through a window or wall.
You go into certain areas of Los Angeles, you'll find all their doors and windows are covered with iron security gates. Even driving home late was scary for them. Not in my neighborhood, but in their own.
Where I grew up in South Sacto, they don't even bother with bars, they just board up the house with 1" thick plywood, just like you'd see prior to a hurricane, except it's permanent.
Yes, they live like that, but they're safe.
Quote from: Darth Fife on May 24, 2015, 05:07:30 PM
Sorry, you lost me when you claimed to have written one of the first accepted Affirmative Action plans for hiring police officers.
Affirmative Action is merely government sponsored racism.
IMHO... of course.
Oh so you didn't make it to the part where he claims blacks don't want to be cops. And he's probably right, the same is true of any racial makeup in the nation though. It takes a special kind of minset to just keep going on through the motions, trying to trip a citizen up, so they can write a ticket meet that quota and put some money in the municipality coffers.
Here's my solution. Get rid of city cops all together, in one day, they go to bed a city cop, and wake up a deputy sheriff
under the control of the elected county sherriff.
That's how it ought to be, as he IS the head executive in a county. Just as we have a CnC for the military, do that, create one for the police too. There ya go problem solved.f
Then there's the issue that much of what is black culture is illegal, I mean hell there's ceremonies from my own ancestors, which, if I did them would get me locked up on drug charges. So.....yeah maybe some cultural understanding needs to be taken into account, while we are busy writing laws in Washington, so the Executive can then issue all kinds of regulations which are in effect most times on pain of fine, or imprisonment or both something the citizen must abide by.
We have two sets of law makers, the un-elected bureaucrats, and the Congress. One was included in our Constitution, the other wasn't.
Quote from: daidalos on May 25, 2015, 10:09:53 PMIt takes a special kind of minset to just keep going on through the motions, trying to trip a citizen up, so they can write a ticket meet that quota and put some money in the municipality coffers.
Trying to trip up a citizen? You must have quite the history with cops.
Quote from: Dori on May 26, 2015, 08:00:51 AM
Trying to trip up a citizen? You must have quite the history with cops.
Gotta bring over this link from another thread. Nicest cop ever!! (my nephew)
https://youtu.be/z3GTamVKA2s
Quote from: kroz on May 26, 2015, 08:18:20 AM
Gotta bring over this link from another thread. Nicest cop ever!! (my nephew)
I've been stopped a few times. Sometimes got a ticket, sometimes not. One time I was driving my husband home from the doctor. He was half laying down in the back seat, with his head just barely poking up against the passenger window in the back seat. A cop pulled me over, asked where I had been and where I was going. He then asked my husband for ID.
Before he let me go (without a ticket) he explained that a woman had been reported abducted and forced to drive her kidnapper. I felt pretty good about being stopped that time. :smile:
Quote from: Dori on May 26, 2015, 08:00:51 AM
Trying to trip up a citizen? You must have quite the history with cops.
Sure, the end result of a traffic ticket is SOME money going into a bloated-salaries, useless-functionaries courts system. Individual states do have a way of underwriting many courts' operations, since not all are turning the profit he suggests.
Cruise control and common sense saves a lot of that. The rest, that's why people open fender-mender outfits and create well-paying jobs based on stuff we mighta-coulda-shoulda avoided. That's why we HAVE courts, to fight it out over whether a standing law is constitutional, which is what always trips up the scofflaws. If the law has
not been repealed, the best interest of society is therefore to not break it, and if you
DO break it, the cop has every legal right to cite you for it. Some time that works. Other times you're back in court.
Yeah...entrapment! :lol:
Quote from: Dori on May 26, 2015, 08:00:51 AM
Trying to trip up a citizen? You must have quite the history with cops.
Not personally Dori, I just live in a city where frankly we've seen all of whats gone on in Ferguson and Baltimore so for me/us it's sort of ho-hum, as we've seen it all before already.
Quote from: daidalos on May 26, 2015, 11:07:34 AM
Not personally Dori, I just live in a city where frankly we've seen all of whats gone on in Ferguson and Baltimore so for me/us it's sort of ho-hum, as we've seen it all before already.
Baltimore had 29 shootings over the weekend. Is it like that where you live?
Long weekend in Chicago, this 2015 Memorial Day. Fifty-six dead including a four year old bystander. And they sent us a community organizer to transform America. :scared:
Quote from: Dori on May 26, 2015, 11:15:47 AM
Baltimore had 29 shootings over the weekend. Is it like that where you live?
Not exactly, but yeah they rioted over the whole Timothy Thomas case here. It's a big problem with lots of facets. But the biggest one I see, is that there is no accountability to the citizenry, with city police who are a private business with a contract with the city.
Unlike the County sheriff who is elected.
Looks like Cleveland is the first to fall. No big surprise, here.
http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/item/20951-cleveland-police-department-accepts-federal-standards-and-mandates
Quote from: red_dirt on May 27, 2015, 08:29:37 PM
Looks like Cleveland is the first to fall. No big surprise, here.
http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/item/20951-cleveland-police-department-accepts-federal-standards-and-mandates
Quoteor to keep them from running away even if they might present a threat to others in the process
So as it is a federal-standards the FBI must let some one run away. :lol: