Prediction Thread

[Just_the_facts_mamm]

From your link: Not so rosy, is it?

Oh and this cool graph that shows the economy IMPROVING at the very end but it's kind of small to see.
this is to proves to all, that Obama is doing a good job and the economy is improving nicely!
Thank you

You see that BIG down turn at 2007-8. 

Yes that one!
The one that happened under CONSERVATIVE, TRICKLE DOWN policies! all the tax cutting and deregulating the GOP could muster still produced a crash!

AND are you going to sit there and tell me you think John McCain would have done better?

The day before the financial collapse, he is quoted as saying the economy was strong and nothing needed to be done!

That and we would have attacked Iran long ago!

[Solar]

well here is one. The 2011 budget was enacted on April 15, 2011, as Public Law 112-10, the Department of Defense and Full-Year Continuing Appropriations Act, 2011.
pretty sure something must have been passed to get through 2010.

AND lets remember that it is CONGRESS which includes Dems and GOP that need to WORK TOGETHER to pass a budget.
Yet you cons like to heap the "problem" on Obama.

Again you conservatives like to ignore little details, like paying for Bushes 2 wars, which had NOT been paid for, the fact that Obama was handed a 1.4 trillion deficit budget the day he took office.
A budget presided over by a GOP president and a GOP senate. So don't give me this "the Dems did it" crap.  The GOP can stop anything they want in the Senate, as we see on a daily basis, AND they are the minority!

Name a social program "enacted" by Obama to further his socialist programs.
other than the healthcare which I will get to next.

Healthcare is out of control!!
corporate death panels
constant increases
pre-existing condidition exclusions
dropping you when you get sick.

little problems that were not good for americans.
Here is what it DID do for you.
Which of these things do want insurance companies to be able to do to you again?
This bill
Stopped the insurance companies from rejecting you for pre-existing conditions, OR cutting you off because you are too sick (corporate death panels) or have reached your "total payout" limit.

Made A tax break for small business to help them with health care for employees.

Tax credits for 29 million taxpayers to help purchase health insurance.

Expanded Medicaid to include all persons 65 and up, up to 133% of poverty level

Cut prescription costs for Medicare by 50%.

Allows your child to remain on your health care until they are 26

WHAT PART OF THIS DO YOU WANT TO REPEAL???


If Bush is a total Lib, who do you think would be a good leader, Hitler, Mussolini, Pinochet?
You a total Libertarian? what?
and I already explained my position on the green energy.

Lets try this, lets not jump all over the place.
How about you try answering what I just posted in 269 and when were done there, we can move on to your idea that the war somehow broke the bank.

But you claimed bush started the loan, I said he didn't, care to back that up?

[Just_the_facts_mamm]

This is for Boo man.
Sorry Solar, I will double my effort to make sure who I am addressing.

here are a few to get you started

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/112-h10/show

I have had no time but I looked up this one above. Seriously?  That's a job bill?

the bill discription
"to amend chapter 8 of title 5, United States Code, to provide that major rules of the executive branch shall have no force or effect unless a joint resolution of approval is enacted into law"

explain to me how this is a jobs bill?
Did you read these first or pull them from Rush's web site, cause THAT'S a mistake.

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/112-h3094/show

ok here is the description of the bill

"Introduced.Workforce Democracy and Fairness Act - Amends the National Labor Relations Act (NLRA) to revise requirements for determination by the National Labor Relation Board (NLRB) of an appropriate bargaining unit before an election of collective bargaining representation. "

Once again you want to explain how this is a jobs bill?

A deregulation bill so employers can screw the working man more but does not promote job growth.

You know what promotes job growth, DEMAND for good and services!

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/112-h3010/show



http://www.opencongress.org/bill/112-h527/show

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/112-h2930/show

How mature. Anyway you have a habit of telling us the GOP bills are bad but you never explain why or go into any detail. this must be a new way of debate that I was not previously aware of.

explain to me how your links above are not exactly what you are complaining about here

and lastly, I posted this

HR 2021

is a bill to get around the CLEAN AIR act so they can drill in the continental shelf.
(that's where all our fish come from!)

You said

really? All the fish? If we don't drill there someone else will so it makes no difference environmentally.

The point is not that they CAN'T drill there, it is that they still have to abide by clean air and water rules!!!!

The oil companies want the rules lifted to SAVE MONEY, MORE PROFIT.

and so a BP spill happens and the continental shelf is wiped out, SO WHAT!  who need fish anyway!

typical  narrow minded view point!

I will critique your other JOBS bills, later, but I have to tell you they get crazier.
you best look up some REAL ones, (like they exist)

[Solar]

Oh and this cool graph that shows the economy IMPROVING at the very end but it's kind of small to see.
this is to proves to all, that Obama is doing a good job and the economy is improving nicely!
Thank you

You see that BIG down turn at 2007-8. 

Yes, I see it, you mean when the Dims were killing us with all their BS?
Don't forget, Bush had to deal with a Dim Congress,

Yes that one!
The one that happened under CONSERVATIVE, TRICKLE DOWN policies! all the tax cutting and deregulating the GOP could muster still produced a crash!

AND are you going to sit there and tell me you think John McCain would have done better?

The day before the financial collapse, he is quoted as saying the economy was strong and nothing needed to be done!

That and we would have attacked Iran long ago!

Keep in mind, neither George or Johnny are Conservatives, they are full blown RINO, a group that is helping to destroy the country, just not as fast as the Dims.
Obama Bungles Jobs Numbers

[Cryptic Bert]

This is for Boo man.
Sorry Solar, I will double my effort to make sure who I am addressing.

I have had no time but I looked up this one above. Seriously?  That's a job bill?

the bill discription
"to amend chapter 8 of title 5, United States Code, to provide that major rules of the executive branch shall have no force or effect unless a joint resolution of approval is enacted into law"

explain to me how this is a jobs bill?
Did you read these first or pull them from Rush's web site, cause THAT'S a mistake.

ok here is the description of the bill

"Introduced.Workforce Democracy and Fairness Act - Amends the National Labor Relations Act (NLRA) to revise requirements for determination by the National Labor Relation Board (NLRB) of an appropriate bargaining unit before an election of collective bargaining representation. "

Once again you want to explain how this is a jobs bill?

A deregulation bill so employers can screw the working man more but does not promote job growth.

You know what promotes job growth, DEMAND for good and services!

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/112-h3010/show



http://www.opencongress.org/bill/112-h527/show

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/112-h2930/show


explain to me how your links above are not exactly what you are complaining about here

and lastly, I posted this

HR 2021

is a bill to get around the CLEAN AIR act so they can drill in the continental shelf.
(that's where all our fish come from!)

You said

The point is not that they CAN'T drill there, it is that they still have to abide by clean air and water rules!!!!

The oil companies want the rules lifted to SAVE MONEY, MORE PROFIT.

and so a BP spill happens and the continental shelf is wiped out, SO WHAT!  who need fish anyway!

typical  narrow minded view point!

I will critique your other JOBS bills, later, but I have to tell you they get crazier.
you best look up some REAL ones, (like they exist)

All you have done is read the intro to each bill. get back to me when you actually read the bills and are familiar with what is in them.

[Just_the_facts_mamm]

All you have done is read the intro to each bill. get back to me when you actually read the bills and are familiar with what is in them.

Dude! How can
""to amend chapter 8 of title 5, United States Code, to provide that major rules of the executive branch shall have no force or effect unless a joint resolution of approval is enacted into law"
be misinterpreted??

these are rule changes to effect the executive branches ability to make major rules!

Conservatives consider these "major rules" an impediment to business, thus a job creator when gone.

same with National Labor Relation Board, less regulation will spur job growth.

all part of the GOP deregulation plan.


you have a different interpretation of this? and link it to jobs please.

Demand makes jobs, not deregulation.

If the demand for widgets was high, you think there wouldn't be a widget plant build in a heart beat, regardless of what REGULATIONS had to be met?

Deregulation makes things like Toxic loans and global economic collapse possible.

Deregulation gives us Love canal and PG & E poisoning the water supply.

Deregulation gave us the saving and loan debacle of Reagan's era.

AND then

The Pres wanted the ability to streamline agencies and mandated all agencies to look for outdated regs to get rid of.
GOP should have gotten right behind that!  BUT no.

that would be good for the country but not until after the election!

[Cryptic Bert]

Dude! How can
""to amend chapter 8 of title 5, United States Code, to provide that major rules of the executive branch shall have no force or effect unless a joint resolution of approval is enacted into law"
be misinterpreted??

these are rule changes to effect the executive branches ability to make major rules!

Conservatives consider these "major rules" an impediment to business, thus a job creator when gone.

same with National Labor Relation Board, less regulation will spur job growth.

all part of the GOP deregulation plan.


you have a different interpretation of this? and link it to jobs please.

Demand makes jobs, not deregulation.

If the demand for widgets was high, you think there wouldn't be a widget plant build in a heart beat, regardless of what REGULATIONS had to be met?

Deregulation makes things like Toxic loans and global economic collapse possible.

Deregulation gives us Love canal and PG & E poisoning the water supply.

Deregulation gave us the saving and loan debacle of Reagan's era.

AND then

The Pres wanted the ability to streamline agencies and mandated all agencies to look for outdated regs to get rid of.
GOP should have gotten right behind that!  BUT no.

that would be good for the country but not until after the election!

Read the bills...

[Just_the_facts_mamm]

Bull! Bush refused Solyndra, Hussein owns that along with all the other failed alternative energy projects..
And this was funding research, this was funding business that had no place in the free mkt.

first off they were building solar panels and Bush administration was first involved, no question.
started the applications in 2006.

here is some more proof for you.

In May 2005, Chris Gronet founded Gronet Technologies and changed its name to Solyndra eight months later. It was founded to provide an alternative to silicon-based solar panels amidst a worldwide shortage.[9] On July 29, 2005 the United States Congress passed the Energy Policy Act of 2005, a bill intended to address a variety of developing energy problems in the United States. The bill was signed into law by George W. Bush on August 8, 2005. Amongst other things, the bill authorized the Department of Energy to offer loan guarantees to help finance promising energy projects. Advertising of this program in August 2006 resulted in the Department of Energy receiving 134 preliminary applications for the program, including one from the Fremont, California-based Solyndra Corporation in order to build a new manufacturing facility "Fab 2" for its unique solar panel technology.

In October 2007, the Department of Energy had completed vetting of the applications and had narrowed the number it was still considering to 16, one of which was the application from Solyndra. The remaining 16 were invited to submit full applications for the program, and Solyndra did so in May 2008. On January 9, 2009, the Department of Energy's credit committee decided unanimously that although the project "appears to have merit, there are several areas where the information presented did not thoroughly support a finding that the project is ready to be approved at this time." The committee "without prejudice" remanded the project "for further development of information."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solyndra_loan_controversy

 

May 2005: Just as a global silicon shortage begins driving up prices of solar photovoltaics, Solyndra is founded to provide a cost-competitive alternative to silicon-based panels.

    July 2005: The Bush administration signs the Energy Policy Act of 2005 into law, creating the 1703 loan guarantee program.

    February 2006 – October 2006: In February, Solyndra raises its first round of venture financing, worth $10.6 million from CMEA Capital, Redpoint Ventures, and U.S. Venture Partners. In October, Argonaut Venture Capital, an investment arm of George Kaiser, invests $17 million into Solyndra. Madrone Capital Partners, an investment arm of the Walton family, invests $7 million. Those investments are part of a $78.2 million fund.

    December 2006: Solyndra applies for a loan guarantee under the 1703 program.

    Late 2007: Loan guarantee program is funded. Solyndra was one of 16 clean-tech companies deemed ready to move forward in the due diligence process. The Bush administration DOE moves forward to develop a conditional commitment.

    October 2008: Then Solyndra CEO Chris Gronet touted reasons for building in Silicon Valley and noted that the "company's second factory also will be built in Fremont, since a Department of Energy loan guarantee mandates a U.S. location."

    November 2008: Silicon prices remain very high on the spot market, making non-silicon based thin film technologies like Solyndra's very attractive to investors. Solyndra also benefits from having very low installation costs. The company raises $144 million from ten different venture investors, including the Walton-family run Madrone Capital Partners. This brings total private investment to more than $450 million to date.

    January 2009: In an effort to show it has done something to support renewable energy, the Bush administration tries to take Solyndra before a DOE credit review committee just one day before President Obama is inaugurated. The committee, consisting of career civil servants with financial expertise, remands the loan back to DOE because it wasn't ready for conditional commitment.

    March 2009: The same credit committee approves the strengthened loan application. The deal passes on to DOE's credit review board. Career staff (not political appointees) within the DOE issue a conditional commitment setting out terms for a guarantee.

    June 2009: As more silicon production facilities come online while demand for PV wavers due to the economic slowdown, silicon prices start to drop. Meanwhile, the Chinese begin rapidly scaling domestic manufacturing and set a path toward dramatic, unforeseen cost reductions in PV. Between June of 2009 and August of 2011, PV prices drop more than 50 percent.

    September 2009: Solyndra raises an additional $219 million. Shortly after, the DOE closes a $535 million loan guarantee after six months of due diligence. This is the first loan guarantee issued under the 1703 program. From application to closing, the process took three years — not the 41 days that is sometimes reported.

    January – June 2010: As the price of conventional silicon-based PV continues to fall due to low silicon prices and a glut of solar modules, investors and analysts start questioning Solyndra's ability to compete in the marketplace. Despite pulling its IPO (as dozens of companies did in 2010), Solyndra raises an additional $175 million from investors.

    November 2010: Solyndra closes an older manufacturing facility and concentrates operations at Fab 2, the plant funded by the $535 million loan guarantee. The Fab 2 plant is completed that same month – on time and on budget — employing around 3,000 construction workers during the build-out, just as the DOE projected.

    February 2011: Due to a liquidity crisis, investors provide $75 million to help restructure the loan guarantee. The DOE rightly assumed it was better to give Solyndra a fighting chance rather than liquidate the company — which was a going concern — for market value, which would have guaranteed significant losses.

    March 2011: Republican Representatives < a href="http://energycommerce.house.gov/hearings/hearingdetail.aspx?NewsID=8333">complain that DOE funds are not being spent quickly enough.

    House Energy and Commerce Committee Chairman Fred Upton (R-Mich.): "Despite the administration's urgency and haste to pass the [American Recovery and Reinvestment Act] ... billions of dollars have yet to be spent."

    And House Oversight and Investigations Subcommittee Chairman Cliff Stearns (R-Fla.): "The whole point of the Democrats' stimulus bill was to spend billions of dollars ... most of the money still hasn't been spent."

    June 2011: Average selling prices for solar modules drop to $1.50 a watt and continue on a pathway to $1 a watt. Solyndra says it has cut costs by 50 percent, but analysts worry how the company will compete with the dramatic changes in conventional PV.

    August 2011: DOE refuses to restructure the loan a second time.

    September 2011: Solyndra closes its manufacturing facility, lays off 1,100 workers, and files for bankruptcy. The news is touted as a failure of the Obama administration and the loan guarantee office. However, as of Sept. 12, the DOE loan programs office closed or issued conditional commitments of $37.8 billion to projects around the country. The $535 million loan is only 1.3 percent of DOE's loan portfolio. To date, Solyndra is the only loan that's known to be troubled.

    Meanwhile, after complaining about stimulus funds moving too quickly, Upton and Stearns are now claiming that the administration was pushing funds out the door too quickly: "In the rush to get stimulus cash out the door, despite repeated claims by the administration to the contrary, some bets were bad from the beginning."
http://grist.org/solar-power/2011-09-13-bush-admin-pushed-solyndra-loan-guarantee-for-two-years/

and a third source.

http://thinkprogress.org/romm/2011/09/13/317594/timeline-bush-administration-solyndra-loan-guarantee/

so you believe it yet?

This is how jobs are created, innovation not deregulation.

[Just_the_facts_mamm]

Read the bills...

Why do we need 4 bills all about basically the same thing?
or are they just trying to do the same thing from 4 directions at the same time?

Explain them to me in simple terms for us ignorant Liberals.

but while we are chatting here is the next big job creation bill which, surprise surprise, is another bill regarding regulations.

Is that all the GOP think about day in and day out, deregulating?

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/112-h3010/show

this bill

9/22/2011--Introduced.Regulatory Accountability Act of 2011 - Amends the Administrative Procedure Act to revise and expand the requirements for federal agency rulemaking by requiring agencies, in making a rule, to base all preliminary and final determinations on evidence and to consider the legal authority under which the rule may be proposed, the specific nature and significance of the problem the agency may address with the rule, any reasonable alternatives for the rule, and the potential costs and benefits associated with such alternatives. Requires agencies to publish advance notice of proposed rulemaking for major rules and for high-impact rules (rules having an annual cost on the economy of $100 million or $1 billion or more, respectively), which shall include a written statement identifying the nature and significance of the problem the agency may address with a rule, the legal authority under which the rule may be proposed, and a solicitation for written data and comments from interested persons. Sets forth criteria for issuing major guidance (agency guidance that is likely to lead to an annual cost on the economy of $100 million or more, a major increase in cost or prices, or significant adverse effects on competition, employment, investment, productivity, innovation, or ability to compete). Expands the scope of judicial review of agency rulemaking by allowing immediate review of rulemaking not in compliance with notice requirements and establishing a substantial evidence standard for affirming agency rulemaking decisions.

These are going to go over real big during the debates against Obama. Can't wait.

BUT wait we have a GOOD bill.

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/112-h2930/show
This benefits entrepreneurs

I have actually used Kickstarter to get investments.

This is a good idea and since it passed the house with a HUGE majority it should have no trouble in the Senate.

I am betting the GOP will stop it in the Senate because it has potential to look good for the President.

ANY bets on that??

let's see the other 20 bills held up in the senate!

[Cryptic Bert]

Why do we need 4 bills all about basically the same thing?
or are they just trying to do the same thing from 4 directions at the same time?

Explain them to me in simple terms for us ignorant Liberals.

but while we are chatting here is the next big job creation bill which, surprise surprise, is another bill regarding regulations.

Is that all the GOP think about day in and day out, deregulating?

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/112-h3010/show

this bill
These are going to go over real big during the debates against Obama. Can't wait.

BUT wait we have a GOOD bill.

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/112-h2930/show
This benefits entrepreneurs

I have actually used Kickstarter to get investments.

This is a good idea and since it passed the house with a HUGE majority it should have no trouble in the Senate.

I am betting the GOP will stop it in the Senate because it has potential to look good for the President.

ANY bets on that??

let's see the other 20 bills held up in the senate!

read the bills.

[Just_the_facts_mamm]

read the bills.

So Boo man can't explain them any better.
Fine.
Where the other 20? you did say there were 25, and I quote

"Nope none. None at all.....except for the 25 passed in the House and stalled in the Democrat controlled Senate."

I Need to look them up.

[Cryptic Bert]

So Boo man can't explain them any better.
Fine.
Where the other 20? you did say there were 25, and I quote

"Nope none. None at all.....except for the 25 passed in the House and stalled in the Democrat controlled Senate."

I Need to look them up.

Sorry it doesn't work like that. You said there were no jobs bills. I posted a few. You then claimed those were not jobs bills even though you haven't read the bills. I don't bother with children. Good bye.

[Solar]

first off they were building solar panels and Bush administration was first involved, no question.
started the applications in 2006.

here is some more proof for you.

 
and a third source.

http://thinkprogress.org/romm/2011/09/13/317594/timeline-bush-administration-solyndra-loan-guarantee/

so you believe it yet?

This is how jobs are created, innovation not deregulation.

From your source, which backs up my point that the Bush admin never gave them the money they wanted and that Hussein held them up as an example of the new Green future.

January 2009: In an effort to show it has done something to support renewable energy, the Bush administration tries to take Solyndra before a DOE credit review committee just one day before President Obama is inaugurated. The committee, consisting of career civil servants with financial expertise, remands the loan back to DOE because it wasn't ready for conditional commitment.

But for future reference, Wiki is not considered a reliable source, since anyone with an opinion can submit to it.
Case in point "January 2009: In an effort to show it has done something to support renewable energy,"
Now where is the evidence that bush needed to show he was doing something for the solar industry?
He is out of office the very next day, why should he give a damn?

But back to the point that it proves my assertion that solar has absolutely no place in our energy infrastructure.
The only place it belongs is in remote applications, where power is either unavailable or or to far from the grid that running power lines isn't feasible.
Making the taxpayer foot the bill for a pie in the sky dream was about as stupid as it gets, paying 10 times the amount for electricity that we can get from coal or nuclear even Ng simply never made sense, that is, unless you are purposely trying to ruin the American infrastructure all based on the hoax that Co2 is a pollutant.

Now is this starting to make sense?

The Dims, not all but most were foolish to follow the party line and back this nonsense, but anyone with a weee bit of commonsense can see this was nothing more than a plan to cripple our production.
Green is rooted in communism, the entire movement was designed to bring the U.S. and its Western allies to its knees.
And they damn near succeeded...

[Solar]

One other thing, just post the most pertinent facts from a site, there a copyright issues at play and lawyers that love to make money.
Not that Wiki would sue, but it's just a rule we have here, I know you didn't mean any harm, just wanted to make sure you knew.

[Just_the_facts_mamm]

Sorry it doesn't work like that. You said there were no jobs bills. I posted a few. You then claimed those were not jobs bills even though you haven't read the bills. I don't bother with children. Good bye.

reading more than the "description" is not going to make them any LESS a ploy to deregulate the country so BIG Business can do what the heck they like and maximize profits at the expense of clean air, water and the environment.

Obviously I can tell the difference in a good job making bill and one that is not.

take this one for example

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/112-h2930/show

NOW that's a job bill!

I am sure the other 20 bills are deregulation ploys by BIG business and their bought and paid for congressmen.
which why you fear putting them up. Does Rush not explain them to you?

The best evidence I have that the GOP are full of hot air?

After the Presidents speech in Sept about JOBS, when he called out the GOP for lack of action,
WHY no rebuttal speech listing ANY of these 25 JOB bills?

WHY Boo man?

Because they would have been laughed at by the entire country?

Because they don't have any JOB bills!

Someone is NOT telling you the truth!