Conservative Political Forum

General Category => Political Discussion and Debate => Topic started by: TboneAgain on December 19, 2014, 02:22:21 PM

Title: Perspective on Cuba
Post by: TboneAgain on December 19, 2014, 02:22:21 PM
Mike Gonzalez, writing for the Federalist (http://thefederalist.com/2014/12/18/president-obama-didnt-tell-the-whole-story-about-cuba/), cracks a few out of the park today, bouncing some common sense and some history off the Kenyan's meanderings on his new-found Cuban policy. (He found it right next to his gay marriage policy. Same drawer, different day.) Enjoy a snip:

QuoteSure, the United States played a large role in Cuba until the Castro takeover in 1959. These were the results: in 1957, Cuba had the lowest infant mortality rate in all of Latin America, and thirteenth-lowest in the world. They've now dropped to twenty-fifth in the world. In the pre-revolutionary era, Cuba was third in all of Latin America in terms of caloric intake. It now ranks last in per capita daily caloric intake.

In the 1950s, Cubans had 58 newspapers to choose from; only four other countries in Latin America had more. By 1994, the print media had decreased to only 17; all are controlled by the Cuban government.

In other words, President Obama could have been proud of the role that the United States has played in Cuba, from 1898 to the present. Instead, he chose to spout the clichés of the internationalist Left and to curry their favor by recognizing Raul Castro.
Title: Re: Perspective on Cuba
Post by: kit saginaw on December 19, 2014, 02:53:07 PM
Some well-known flunky & family will be forced by the Administration to go there and 'enjoy themselves'... like the mayor from Jaws when everyone on the beach was afraid to go in the water.

Meanwhile, a helluva lotta Cuban-Americans & friends are pissed-off and a helluva lotta tsunami-wave Republicans haven't changed their opinion of Dems or the Castro's.  There'll be a trickle of tourists, slightly bigger than the trickle that already go down there.

 
Title: Re: Perspective on Cuba
Post by: Billy's bayonet on December 19, 2014, 05:17:06 PM
And Drug/contraband smuggling that the CUban Govt has sanctioned will increase.
Title: Re: Perspective on Cuba
Post by: supsalemgr on December 20, 2014, 05:07:39 AM
Quote from: TboneAgain on December 19, 2014, 02:22:21 PM
Mike Gonzalez, writing for the Federalist (http://thefederalist.com/2014/12/18/president-obama-didnt-tell-the-whole-story-about-cuba/), cracks a few out of the park today, bouncing some common sense and some history off the Kenyan's meanderings on his new-found Cuban policy. (He found it right next to his gay marriage policy. Same drawer, different day.) Enjoy a snip:

"Sure, the United States played a large role in Cuba until the Castro takeover in 1959. These were the results: in 1957, Cuba had the lowest infant mortality rate in all of Latin America, and thirteenth-lowest in the world. They've now dropped to twenty-fifth in the world. In the pre-revolutionary era, Cuba was third in all of Latin America in terms of caloric intake. It now ranks last in per capita daily caloric intake.

In the 1950s, Cubans had 58 newspapers to choose from; only four other countries in Latin America had more. By 1994, the print media had decreased to only 17; all are controlled by the Cuban government.

In other words, President Obama could have been proud of the role that the United States has played in Cuba, from 1898 to the present. Instead, he chose to spout the clichés of the internationalist Left and to curry their favor by recognizing Raul Castro."

The above is exactly what Obama would like to do to the United States.
Title: Re: Perspective on Cuba
Post by: Solars Toy on December 20, 2014, 05:19:21 AM
One of our local talk shows pointed out that antique car enthusiasts will be happy.  Toy

(https://conservativepoliticalforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsmileys.on-my-web.com%2Frepository%2FTransports%2Fferrari-046.gif&hash=93eb19b916b10a461cd985db54671e1131cae3d8)
Title: Re: Perspective on Cuba
Post by: AndyJackson on December 20, 2014, 05:32:11 AM
Is it time to notice the pattern....yet  ?

Buddies with Chavez, Ayers, Dorn, Wright.......fervently working to replace Mubarak, Khadafi, Assad with radical jihadists, giving MB / ISIS a clear path across the ME (pretending to "slow" them).......ready to foment the thug army against the police at every opportunity.....dismantling the military......now he's making his move to support his hero Castro......still waiting on "more leeway" to support Putin / Medvedev........cozying up to the Chinese........

Everything he does is in support of everything anti-America.  I wonder how many years it will take to chip away and expose the guy's hidden path, on his way to being the greatest mole in western civilization.
Title: Re: Perspective on Cuba
Post by: Solars Toy on December 20, 2014, 05:40:56 AM
Quote from: AndyJackson on December 20, 2014, 05:32:11 AM
Is it time to notice the pattern....yet  ?

Buddies with Chavez, Ayers, Dorn, Wright.......fervently working to replace Mubarak, Khadafi, Assad with radical jihadists, giving MB / ISIS a clear path across the ME (pretending to "slow" them).......ready to foment the thug army against the police at every opportunity.....dismantling the military......now he's making his move to support his hero Castro......still waiting on "more leeway" to support Putin / Medvedev........cozying up to the Chinese........

Everything he does is in support of everything anti-America.  I wonder how many years it will take to chip away and expose the guy's hidden path, on his way to being the greatest mole in western civilization.

Sadly some of us have watched with frustration at each step this President has taken.   It is even more sad to see the sheeple that have just followed along never putting anything together until it was too late.  Clean up will be a bitch but with the right person not impossible.

Toy 
Title: Re: Perspective on Cuba
Post by: AlfredDrake on December 20, 2014, 07:35:29 AM
So much for Papal infallibility.

http://www.news.va/en/news/pope-welcomes-us-and-cuban-moves-to-normalise-rela (http://www.news.va/en/news/pope-welcomes-us-and-cuban-moves-to-normalise-rela)
Title: Re: Perspective on Cuba
Post by: european101 on December 20, 2014, 08:14:43 AM
Perspective on Cuba? After the fall of socialisem they will be 3rd world country for another 30 years or maybe even longer.
Title: Re: Perspective on Cuba
Post by: Solar on December 20, 2014, 08:20:04 AM
Quote from: AlfredDrake on December 20, 2014, 07:35:29 AM
So much for Papal infallibility.

http://www.news.va/en/news/pope-welcomes-us-and-cuban-moves-to-normalise-rela (http://www.news.va/en/news/pope-welcomes-us-and-cuban-moves-to-normalise-rela)
The Catholic Church is politics epitomized, always has been, this is nothing new, or unexpected.
Title: Re: Perspective on Cuba
Post by: supsalemgr on December 20, 2014, 09:25:01 AM
Quote from: european101 on December 20, 2014, 08:14:43 AM
Perspective on Cuba? After the fall of socialisem they will be 3rd world country for another 30 years or maybe even longer.

I agree on the time frame. However, if Cuba adopts a capitalistic economy money will flow into it from the US. It will become a tourist mecca and the influx of baseball will energize the Cuban people. The Cubans who settled in FL have assimilated and become entrepreneurs. This energy will flow back over time. Granted there are 3-4 generations who have never experienced freedom and it will be a struggle for those not willing to adopt new ways.
Title: Re: Perspective on Cuba
Post by: european101 on December 20, 2014, 10:11:47 AM
Quote from: supsalemgr on December 20, 2014, 09:25:01 AM
I agree on the time frame. However, if Cuba adopts a capitalistic economy money will flow into it from the US. It will become a tourist mecca and the influx of baseball will energize the Cuban people. The Cubans who settled in FL have assimilated and become entrepreneurs. This energy will flow back over time. Granted there are 3-4 generations who have never experienced freedom and it will be a struggle for those not willing to adopt new ways.

Experiences from Russia and former Eastern European countries shows that It's very hard to achieve high economic standard after 50 years of socialism. Socialism is so much economically inferior than capitalism that on my opinion is unrealistic to expect from Cuba to achive high living standard in the short term. 
Title: Re: Perspective on Cuba
Post by: AndyJackson on December 20, 2014, 10:52:51 AM
Quote from: Solar on December 20, 2014, 08:20:04 AM
The Catholic Church is politics epitomized, always has been, this is nothing new, or unexpected.
I am Catholic, and as such, I am expected to accept the Pope as God's #1 spokesman on the earth.

Yet, this guy is just as clueless on the mechanics and dynamics of economic / social issues, as Obama & Gore & pals.  I often wonder if there was a blackmail / purge thing that kicked Ratzinger out because he was too traditional / conservative, to replace him with a progressive, a la the Obama experiment.

And yes, we know that the Church has been involved in a lot of hinky stuff.  From chumming up with Hitler, to being a well-oiled, massive money machine.  They've been there hand-in-hand with every big-money venture in the 3rd world since the year 1000.  I'm not a big fan of the image of a trillion-dollar portfolio for a church. 

Scale down to a couple billion for operations, and figure out a way to give back the rest, to the places that are most in need.

I'm amazed that there's a Pope who's basically a hard-core socialist & anti-capitalist......who won't liquidate the Vatican's trillion to the poor people, and sits on this treasure instead like the Queen of England.  Something just doesn't add up there.  Sort of reminds one of the UN, or the classic commies.  Huge on platitudes, but also huge on their own self-serving greed that they rail against for everybody else.
Title: Re: Perspective on Cuba
Post by: supsalemgr on December 20, 2014, 11:51:58 AM
Quote from: AndyJackson on December 20, 2014, 10:52:51 AM
I am Catholic, and as such, I am expected to accept the Pope as God's #1 spokesman on the earth.

Yet, this guy is just as clueless on the mechanics and dynamics of economic / social issues, as Obama & Gore & pals.  I often wonder if there was a blackmail / purge thing that kicked Ratzinger out because he was too traditional / conservative, to replace him with a progressive, a la the Obama experiment.

And yes, we know that the Church has been involved in a lot of hinky stuff.  From chumming up with Hitler, to being a well-oiled, massive money machine.  They've been there hand-in-hand with every big-money venture in the 3rd world since the year 1000.  I'm not a big fan of the image of a trillion-dollar portfolio for a church. 

Scale down to a couple billion for operations, and figure out a way to give back the rest, to the places that are most in need.

I'm amazed that there's a Pope who's basically a hard-core socialist & anti-capitalist......who won't liquidate the Vatican's trillion to the poor people, and sits on this treasure instead like the Queen of England.  Something just doesn't add up there.  Sort of reminds one of the UN, or the classic commies.  Huge on platitudes, but also huge on their own self-serving greed that they rail against for everybody else.

First, let's not hijack this thread away from Cuba to rants about the Catholic church.

I am not Catholic, but have many Catholic friends. They are dedicated to church and serve it well and there are millions like that in the church. The church also does many great things and continues to make advances in South America and Africa. Anything that advances Christianity is good in my view. One reason I was never attracted to the Catholic church is I believe too much power is given to the pope. After all, he is nothing but an an elected politician and another flawed human being. It is becoming clear the current pope is a liberal and eventually this is going to cause some conflict among the followers.
Title: Re: Perspective on Cuba
Post by: Billy's bayonet on December 20, 2014, 06:44:00 PM
Quote from: supsalemgr on December 20, 2014, 11:51:58 AM
First, let's not hijack this thread away from Cuba to rants about the Catholic church.

I am not Catholic, but have many Catholic friends. They are dedicated to church and serve it well and there are millions like that in the church. The church also does many great things and continues to make advances in South America and Africa. Anything that advances Christianity is good in my view. One reason I was never attracted to the Catholic church is I believe too much power is given to the pope. After all, he is nothing but an an elected politician and another flawed human being. It is becoming clear the current pope is a liberal and eventually this is going to cause some conflict among the followers.

You have to understand the Catholic church if you want to under stand CUba or rather Latin America, The Catholic Church I was raised in supports Catholic Countries, if those Catholic countries happen to be commies....wellllll......

I find it  hypocritical  that the Catholic Church supports Dems overwhelmingly when the Dem party are students of abortion on demand.
Title: Re: Perspective on Cuba
Post by: Darth Fife on December 20, 2014, 09:08:06 PM
Quote from: AlfredDrake on December 20, 2014, 07:35:29 AM
So much for Papal infallibility.

http://www.news.va/en/news/pope-welcomes-us-and-cuban-moves-to-normalise-rela (http://www.news.va/en/news/pope-welcomes-us-and-cuban-moves-to-normalise-rela)

Papal Infallibly is only applicable when the Pope is speaking on matters of Church dogma and/or doctrine.

Darth
Title: Re: Perspective on Cuba
Post by: Mountainshield on December 23, 2014, 05:24:57 AM
Like Mark Levin pointed out, capitalism have not brought freedom to China. Capitalism is required for liberty, but liberty is dependant on conservatism. Cuba will get economic progress, but it will still be a Castro plantation and now a Castro Red Light district with Castro Casino's etc to go with it.

The communist party of Cuba will never peacefully give up power, they are part of the "Foro de São Paulo". Any economic benefits will be used to fund leftist terrorists in Latin America to destroy the last remaining capitalist countries like Colombia. If USA would take back their heritage of keeping Latin America in line and free they would do well to support Colombia.

The Catholic Church like the Protestant independent Churches are excellent institutions on the local level, but it seems to be taken over by socialists at the top levels.
Title: Re: Perspective on Cuba
Post by: Solar on December 23, 2014, 06:53:53 AM
Quote from: Mountainshield on December 23, 2014, 05:24:57 AM
Like Mark Levin pointed out, capitalism have not brought freedom to China. Capitalism is required for liberty, but liberty is dependant on conservatism. Cuba will get economic progress, but it will still be a Castro plantation and now a Castro Red Light district with Castro Casino's etc to go with it.

The communist party of Cuba will never peacefully give up power, they are part of the "Foro de São Paulo". Any economic benefits will be used to fund leftist terrorists in Latin America to destroy the last remaining capitalist countries like Colombia. If USA would take back their heritage of keeping Latin America in line and free they would do well to support Colombia.

The Catholic Church like the Protestant independent Churches are excellent institutions on the local level, but it seems to be taken over by socialists at the top levels.
BINGO My Friend! But this is the problem with young Libertarians, they've been brainwashed to believe that any intervention in the politics of other Nations is somehow evil.
That somehow the world would find a happy equilibrium if America would mind it's own business.

Talk about naivete! The world doesn't seek equilibrium where dictators seek global domination.
But these kids cant see this, because they've been taught that we are the impediment to peace around the globe, that Muscum wouldn't hate us if we weren't there, that China and Russia would live peacefully among India and Pakistan, that Iran and Saudi Arabia would stop creating terrorists.

Yeah, and electric cars produce Unicorn farts and butterflies will be protectors of the Earth.
Title: Re: Perspective on Cuba
Post by: Mountainshield on December 23, 2014, 07:31:55 AM
Quote from: Solar on December 23, 2014, 06:53:53 AM
BINGO My Friend! But this is the problem with young Libertarians, they've been brainwashed to believe that any intervention in the politics of other Nations is somehow evil.
That somehow the world would find a happy equilibrium if America would mind it's own business.

Talk about naivete! The world doesn't seek equilibrium where dictators seek global domination.
But these kids cant see this, because they've been taught that we are the impediment to peace around the globe, that Muscum wouldn't hate us if we weren't there, that China and Russia would live peacefully among India and Pakistan, that Iran and Saudi Arabia would stop creating terrorists.

Yeah, and electric cars produce Unicorn farts and butterflies will be protectors of the Earth.

Indeed, which is why Ron Paul is wrong on non-intervention. When all of latin america is under socialist control they would not stop there, they would do everything in their power to ensure the destruction of the US either through supporting socialist insurgency in the US, giving arms to minority groups to committ terrorist acts or flood all of their criminals/deviants/political opponents into the US and break the US welfare system.

Same with the Muslims, once they have cleansed Africa of Christians, destroyed Israel and killed all the Jews and Christians in the middle east they will not stop there, they will invade and step up local muslim insurrection in Europe, USA, China and Russia.

Like you said, Naivete is the right word for it. These libertarians and so called conservatives fall for the leftist lie that there is war in the world because of Western aggression and exploitation that if we would just leave them alone they would leave us alone because all they want is to live in peace in their quaint huts tending their small fields in harmony.

Unicorn farts... gonna steal that one  :laugh:
Title: Re: Perspective on Cuba
Post by: supsalemgr on December 23, 2014, 08:13:31 AM
Quote from: Mountainshield on December 23, 2014, 07:31:55 AM
Indeed, which is why Ron Paul is wrong on non-intervention. When all of latin america is under socialist control they would not stop there, they would do everything in their power to ensure the destruction of the US either through supporting socialist insurgency in the US, giving arms to minority groups to committ terrorist acts or flood all of their criminals/deviants/political opponents into the US and break the US welfare system.

Same with the Muslims, once they have cleansed Africa of Christians, destroyed Israel and killed all the Jews and Christians in the middle east they will not stop there, they will invade and step up local muslim insurrection in Europe, USA, China and Russia.

Like you said, Naivete is the right word for it. These libertarians and so called conservatives fall for the leftist lie that there is war in the world because of Western aggression and exploitation that if we would just leave them alone they would leave us alone because all they want is to live in peace in their quaint huts tending their small fields in harmony.

Unicorn farts... gonna steal that one  :laugh:

Absolutely correct. When was the last time you heard anyone in government mention the "Monroe Doctrine"? I am sure any referral to it has been removed from history books so we probably have 2-3 generations who have never heard of it.
Title: Re: Perspective on Cuba
Post by: Solar on December 23, 2014, 08:54:26 AM
Quote from: Mountainshield on December 23, 2014, 07:31:55 AM
Indeed, which is why Ron Paul is wrong on non-intervention. When all of latin america is under socialist control they would not stop there, they would do everything in their power to ensure the destruction of the US either through supporting socialist insurgency in the US, giving arms to minority groups to committ terrorist acts or flood all of their criminals/deviants/political opponents into the US and break the US welfare system.

Same with the Muslims, once they have cleansed Africa of Christians, destroyed Israel and killed all the Jews and Christians in the middle east they will not stop there, they will invade and step up local muslim insurrection in Europe, USA, China and Russia.

Like you said, Naivete is the right word for it. These libertarians and so called conservatives fall for the leftist lie that there is war in the world because of Western aggression and exploitation that if we would just leave them alone they would leave us alone because all they want is to live in peace in their quaint huts tending their small fields in harmony.

Unicorn farts... gonna steal that one  :laugh:
As the saying goes: "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)
Not containing socialism, is akin to fertilizing communism and arming the enemy at our front and backdoor.
Title: Re: Perspective on Cuba
Post by: AndyJackson on December 23, 2014, 09:26:50 AM
Quote from: supsalemgr on December 20, 2014, 11:51:58 AM
First, let's not hijack this thread away from Cuba to rants about the Catholic church.

I am not Catholic, but have many Catholic friends. They are dedicated to church and serve it well and there are millions like that in the church. The church also does many great things and continues to make advances in South America and Africa. Anything that advances Christianity is good in my view. One reason I was never attracted to the Catholic church is I believe too much power is given to the pope. After all, he is nothing but an an elected politician and another flawed human being. It is becoming clear the current pope is a liberal and eventually this is going to cause some conflict among the followers.
First, let's not accuse anyone of hijacking a thread, when they've simply responded to a post, that was fully allowed as pertinent to the topic.

Simple enough  ?

As I said, I'm Catholic.  I would truly enjoy punching the face of every asshole who leads with "pedophile priests".  I hate the guts of anyone who picks and picks and picks at the failings of a few thousand losers, when the faith has produced billions of wonderful people who've done nothing but good.

So you can spare me that lecture too, lol.
Title: Re: Perspective on Cuba
Post by: AndyJackson on December 23, 2014, 09:35:27 AM
Quote from: Mountainshield on December 23, 2014, 05:24:57 AM
Like Mark Levin pointed out, capitalism have not brought freedom to China. Capitalism is required for liberty, but liberty is dependant on conservatism. Cuba will get economic progress, but it will still be a Castro plantation and now a Castro Red Light district with Castro Casino's etc to go with it.

The communist party of Cuba will never peacefully give up power, they are part of the "Foro de São Paulo". Any economic benefits will be used to fund leftist terrorists in Latin America to destroy the last remaining capitalist countries like Colombia. If USA would take back their heritage of keeping Latin America in line and free they would do well to support Colombia.

The Catholic Church like the Protestant independent Churches are excellent institutions on the local level, but it seems to be taken over by socialists at the top levels.
Levin has done a few good bits on the Pope.

His main point is that the Pope only knows the capitalism of Brazil, which is in fact about as corrupt as capitalism gets, and a terrible version / example of it.  Too bad the Pope doesn't know the rest of the history of proper capitalism, where it has been the only path to prosperity, comfort, safety, and health for the entire world.

I get it, Jesus and the bible are very easily misused to claim that we need to just take everything from the rich and hand it to the poor.

But Jesus made it very clear that he wasn't fond of the tax collectors who would do this, or the lying, cheating, lazy that would take the spoils.  So no, not so much.
Title: Re: Perspective on Cuba
Post by: supsalemgr on December 23, 2014, 10:34:35 AM
Quote from: AndyJackson on December 23, 2014, 09:26:50 AM
First, let's not accuse anyone of hijacking a thread, when they've simply responded to a post, that was fully allowed as pertinent to the topic.

Simple enough  ?

As I said, I'm Catholic.  I would truly enjoy punching the face of every asshole who leads with "pedophile priests".  I hate the guts of anyone who picks and picks and picks at the failings of a few thousand losers, when the faith has produced billions of wonderful people who've done nothing but good.

So you can spare me that lecture too, lol.

Are you responding to me about the "lecture"? If so where did I do that? I made an observation that the pope is a political figure.
Title: Re: Perspective on Cuba
Post by: keyboarder on December 23, 2014, 10:56:29 AM
Quote from: AndyJackson on December 20, 2014, 05:32:11 AM
Is it time to notice the pattern....yet  ?

Buddies with Chavez, Ayers, Dorn, Wright.......fervently working to replace Mubarak, Khadafi, Assad with radical jihadists, giving MB / ISIS a clear path across the ME (pretending to "slow" them).......ready to foment the thug army against the police at every opportunity.....dismantling the military......now he's making his move to support his hero Castro......still waiting on "more leeway" to support Putin / Medvedev........cozying up to the Chinese........

Everything he does is in support of everything anti-America.  I wonder how many years it will take to chip away and expose the guy's hidden path, on his way to being the greatest mole in western civilization.

Whew!  That one just got you a nice little audit--just in time for Christmas!    :smile:
Title: Re: Perspective on Cuba
Post by: kalash on December 25, 2014, 09:58:45 AM
Don't mind Cuba, watch Nicaragua - only 3 days after decision to built  an interoceanic canal, and they have protests against it...
http://lab.org.uk/nicaragua-protests-against-canal-are-growing (http://lab.org.uk/nicaragua-protests-against-canal-are-growing)
It has to be invisible hand of free market...  It saying to us: Free world already has one canal, another on would obvious threat to democracy.
Title: Re: Perspective on Cuba
Post by: Solar on December 25, 2014, 10:21:06 AM
Quote from: kalash on December 25, 2014, 09:58:45 AM
Don't mind Cuba, watch Nicaragua - only 3 days after decision to built  an interoceanic canal, and they have protests against it...
http://lab.org.uk/nicaragua-protests-against-canal-are-growing (http://lab.org.uk/nicaragua-protests-against-canal-are-growing)
It has to be invisible hand of free market...  It saying to us: Free world already has one canal, another on would obvious threat to democracy.
I wouldn't call Chinese backing free mkt. Regardless, if they want a canal, that's their business if they want to destroy the country's largest freshwater source, which will destroy the livelihoods of 10s of thousands of inhabitants that depend on the lake for food and fresh water.

Looks like corrupt leaders can't say no to all that Chinese money. Sound familiar?

(https://conservativepoliticalforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F38.media.tumblr.com%2F5275b81168cd0d7c366749331f3da067%2Ftumblr_n8fdqmVZjX1rasnq9o1_500.jpg&hash=be190f5c296fed457ea1505ffef85191a62f91fe)
Title: Re: Perspective on Cuba
Post by: Darth Fife on December 25, 2014, 12:57:39 PM
Quote from: Solar on December 25, 2014, 10:21:06 AM
I wouldn't call Chinese backing free mkt. Regardless, if they want a canal, that's their business if they want to destroy the country's largest freshwater source, which will destroy the livelihoods of 10s of thousands of inhabitants that depend on the lake for food and fresh water.

Looks like corrupt leaders can't say no to all that Chinese money. Sound familiar?

(https://conservativepoliticalforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F38.media.tumblr.com%2F5275b81168cd0d7c366749331f3da067%2Ftumblr_n8fdqmVZjX1rasnq9o1_500.jpg&hash=be190f5c296fed457ea1505ffef85191a62f91fe)

If memory serves me correctly, The Nicaragua route was originally surveyed and discarded in favor of the route through Panama.

Here is a link to an interesting story about a sailor who had his small cruising catamaran trucked up to Lake Nicaragua and did some sailing there.

http://turtleislands.net/tmc/16.html (http://turtleislands.net/tmc/16.html)

Darth
Title: Re: Perspective on Cuba
Post by: kalash on December 25, 2014, 01:45:25 PM
Quote from: Solar on December 25, 2014, 10:21:06 AM
they want to destroy the country's largest freshwater source, which will destroy the livelihoods of 10s of thousands of inhabitants that depend on the lake for food and fresh water.

Looks like corrupt leaders can't say no to all that Chinese money. Sound familiar?
I am with you on that. Dam these corrupt political leaders, who let Transcontinental Railroad across the United States to be built... All these beautiful buffalo herds and indian tribes that depended on them.... Their life was completely destroyed.
Title: Re: Perspective on Cuba
Post by: walkstall on December 25, 2014, 01:55:19 PM
Quote from: kalash on December 25, 2014, 01:45:25 PM
I am with you on that. Dam these corrupt political leaders, who let Transcontinental Railroad across the United States to be built... All these beautiful buffalo herds and indian tribes that depended on them.... Their life was completely destroyed.

Don't bet the farm on that.   :lol:
Title: Re: Perspective on Cuba
Post by: Solar on December 25, 2014, 02:26:37 PM
Quote from: Darth Fife on December 25, 2014, 12:57:39 PM
If memory serves me correctly, The Nicaragua route was originally surveyed and discarded in favor of the route through Panama.

Here is a link to an interesting story about a sailor who had his small cruising catamaran trucked up to Lake Nicaragua and did some sailing there.

http://turtleislands.net/tmc/16.html (http://turtleislands.net/tmc/16.html)

Darth
Fascinating story.
Title: Re: Perspective on Cuba
Post by: quiller on December 25, 2014, 10:50:51 PM
You can bet your last cent that China will complete a canal wide and deep enough to accommodate every warship it has.

Compare that to the fact that three, count them, THREE retired U.S. aircraft carriers must go the long way 'round the Horn this year, because the canal WE can influence isn't wide or deep enough. (Sold for scrap, hauled away for break-up, which isn't the point as much as their SIZE matters.)

The Forrestal, Constellation and Ranger used to be our best. They were small compared to the Ford.
Title: Re: Perspective on Cuba
Post by: Solar on December 26, 2014, 05:31:43 AM
Quote from: quiller on December 25, 2014, 10:50:51 PM
You can bet your last cent that China will complete a canal wide and deep enough to accommodate every warship it has.

Compare that to the fact that three, count them, THREE retired U.S. aircraft carriers must go the long way 'round the Horn this year, because the canal WE can influence isn't wide or deep enough. (Sold for scrap, hauled away for break-up, which isn't the point as much as their SIZE matters.)

The Forrestal, Constellation and Ranger used to be our best. They were small compared to the Ford.
Irrelevant. There are severe disadvantages to having ones Military landlocked after we close the egress which leave them sitting ducks.
Title: Re: Perspective on Cuba
Post by: Darth Fife on December 26, 2014, 10:36:03 AM
Quote from: quiller on December 25, 2014, 10:50:51 PM
You can bet your last cent that China will complete a canal wide and deep enough to accommodate every warship it has.

Compare that to the fact that three, count them, THREE retired U.S. aircraft carriers must go the long way 'round the Horn this year, because the canal WE can influence isn't wide or deep enough. (Sold for scrap, hauled away for break-up, which isn't the point as much as their SIZE matters.)

The Forrestal, Constellation and Ranger used to be our best. They were small compared to the Ford.

You realize that the canal was built to handle the largest ships of its day, right?

As it stands, I believe the canal is large enough to handle the largest of China's Navy - such as it is. The dimensions of the new canal will will more than likely be designed to handle the largest new cargo ships. These are considerably larger than our aircraft carriers and are currently required to either go the long way round, or offload their cargo on one side and ship it by rail to the other side for loading onto another ship.

(https://conservativepoliticalforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia-cdn.tripadvisor.com%2Fmedia%2Fphoto-s%2F01%2F55%2Fbd%2F40%2Fthe-panama-canal-railroad.jpg&hash=adba2c5809be5f1dc889bb44a74be40caf099819)

Darth