Quote from: Hector on November 24, 2014, 12:35:01 PM
How would islamo-care destroy private insurance companies?!?

It's a law that now forces people to buy products from private insurance companies and if the customer can't afford it, then the government will pay the private insurance company for them! Not only that, you said yourself it forces you to buy maternity care from them that you don't even need.

Private insurance companies love Osama-care! It's a guaranteed customer base with a guaranteed income.

That's not what I said. I said that KenyaCare is designed to destroy the private health insurance industry, not necessarily the individual companies. If risk is removed from the insurance business, as KenyaCare is attempting to do, the very concept of insurance is destroyed. What's left is government-directed redistribution of wealth, which will be temporarily facilitated by the remaining players in what was once the insurance business. Forcing me to pay for 'coverage' for the non-existent risk of a pregnancy in my life is not insurance, it's theft. Using my money to help pay the medical expenses of someone else is not insurance, it's wealth redistribution.

This is happening right now, in front of your eyes. It is frankly beyond my ability to comprehend why you can't see it.

Yes, some insurance companies backed KenyaCare -- before it was passed and the details began coming out. They were bought off by promises of mandates that would force young, healthy, low-risk customers to them, along with 'risk corridors' and other baubles and bangles, all of which are already seen to be either ineffective (mandates) or soon to expire (everything else).

If the Supremes decide against subsidies in federal exchanges next summer, you'll see the whole house of cards collapse almost overnight. Insurance executives aren't stupid. They know the sort of game they're playing with Uncle Samantha. Most of them have other insurance lines to sell. They will get out of the health care insurance business like rats running down an anchor rope. And when they're all gone, dear Uncle Samantha will step in to clear out the wreckage and "put things right for the American people."

Hello, single-payer.

That was the whole idea all along.

Quote from: TboneAgain on November 24, 2014, 01:00:52 PM
That's not what I said. I said that KenyaCare is designed to destroy the private health insurance industry, not necessarily the individual companies. If risk is removed from the insurance business, as KenyaCare is attempting to do, the very concept of insurance is destroyed. What's left is government-directed redistribution of wealth, which will be temporarily facilitated by the remaining players in what was once the insurance business. Forcing me to pay for 'coverage' for the non-existent risk of a pregnancy in my life is not insurance, it's theft. Using my money to help pay the medical expenses of someone else is not insurance, it's wealth redistribution.

This is happening right now, in front of your eyes. It is frankly beyond my ability to comprehend why you can't see it.

Yes, some insurance companies backed KenyaCare -- before it was passed and the details began coming out. They were bought off by promises of mandates that would force young, healthy, low-risk customers to them, along with 'risk corridors' and other baubles and bangles, all of which are already seen to be either ineffective (mandates) or soon to expire (everything else).

If the Supremes decide against subsidies in federal exchanges next summer, you'll see the whole house of cards collapse almost overnight. Insurance executives aren't stupid. They know the sort of game they're playing with Uncle Samantha. Most of them have other insurance lines to sell. They will get out of the health care insurance business like rats running down an anchor rope. And when they're all gone, dear Uncle Samantha will step in to clear out the wreckage and "put things right for the American people."

Hello, single-payer.

That was the whole idea all along.

And this is exactly what Obama and his cronies desired. It is no secret that Obama's ultimate goal is single payer and this is step to get there. If the private companies bail then the wonderful government will come to the rescue and we all can enjoy the level of care our veterans are receiving from the VA.

Quote from: TboneAgain on November 24, 2014, 01:00:52 PM
That's not what I said. I said that KenyaCare is designed to destroy the private health insurance industry, not necessarily the individual companies. If risk is removed from the insurance business, as KenyaCare is attempting to do, the very concept of insurance is destroyed. What's left is government-directed redistribution of wealth, which will be temporarily facilitated by the remaining players in what was once the insurance business. Forcing me to pay for 'coverage' for the non-existent risk of a pregnancy in my life is not insurance, it's theft. Using my money to help pay the medical expenses of someone else is not insurance, it's wealth redistribution.

This is happening right now, in front of your eyes. It is frankly beyond my ability to comprehend why you can't see it.

Yes, some insurance companies backed KenyaCare -- before it was passed and the details began coming out. They were bought off by promises of mandates that would force young, healthy, low-risk customers to them, along with 'risk corridors' and other baubles and bangles, all of which are already seen to be either ineffective (mandates) or soon to expire (everything else).

If the Supremes decide against subsidies in federal exchanges next summer, you'll see the whole house of cards collapse almost overnight. Insurance executives aren't stupid. They know the sort of game they're playing with Uncle Samantha. Most of them have other insurance lines to sell. They will get out of the health care insurance business like rats running down an anchor rope. And when they're all gone, dear Uncle Samantha will step in to clear out the wreckage and "put things right for the American people."

Hello, single-payer.

That was the whole idea all along.

I'm trying to see your point of view but I need clarification.

When you say risk is being removed from the industry, can you expand on that? Who was taking the risks, how has it changed to where they are no longer taking this risk, and why is this risk a good thing? This isn't a trick or rhetorical question, I just don't follow your meaning here.

Do you realize that you've been paying for other people's health care your whole life? Who do you think pays the bill when an uninsured person making 20k a year comes into the ER moments away from delivering a baby? You do. the hospital raises its rates next year to make up the loss by charging your insurance company more. Then your nice maternity care free plan raises its premiums to cover those expenses. Either that or her Medicaid pays for it and the government raises taxes on us working fools to pay of the debt.

So yeah, now they are giving them healthcare through subsidies that you are still paying for through higher rates and taxes.

Quote from: Hector on November 24, 2014, 02:35:38 PM
I'm trying to see your point of view but I need clarification.

When you say risk is being removed from the industry, can you expand on that? Who was taking the risks, how has it changed to where they are no longer taking this risk, and why is this risk a good thing? This isn't a trick or rhetorical question, I just don't follow your meaning here.

Do you realize that you've been paying for other people's health care your whole life? Who do you think pays the bill when an uninsured person making 20k a year comes into the ER moments away from delivering a baby? You do. the hospital raises its rates next year to make up the loss by charging your insurance company more. Then your nice maternity care free plan raises its premiums to cover those expenses. Either that or her Medicaid pays for it and the government raises taxes on us working fools to pay of the debt.

So yeah, now they are giving them healthcare through subsidies that you are still paying for through higher rates and taxes.

Okay, understand that you know only what the public education establishment has taught you about health care and insurance and government -- nothing.

I didn't say risk is being removed from the health care industry. What I said was that government is forcing insurance companies to ignore risk. That's not the same thing.

What the government is trying so hard to do is convert the health care insurance companies into willing accomplices in its wealth redistribution scheme.

Insurance -- the pure, commercial kind -- is a policy you buy to protect you against (usually catastrophic) loss in the event of a calamity. Life insurance, for example, is purchased to protect beneficiaries from anticipated loss in the event of your death. Rates (the cost of the insurance) are customarily calculated based on a panoply of actuarial tables, which are these days pretty much contained in computer programs. In general, if you're older, your life insurance costs more. If you're sick, your health insurance costs more. These things are and should be true because the risk you present to the insurance company is higher than that presented by someone younger and/or healthier.

Right now, we have Uncle Samantha stepping into the health insurance market and flinging diktats around. "Thou shalt not consider age as a risk factor in rating your coverage." "Thou shalt not consider pre-existing conditions as risk factors in rating your coverage." "Thou shalt not have the ability to cap coverage payouts, either annually, nor by lifetime." "Thou shalt require all applicants, regardless of age, marital status, fertility, or any other criterion, to purchase coverage for contraceptive and maternity costs."

Any one of these -- and they are all LAW now -- can only increase the cost to insurers, an increase that will be surely and swiftly passed on to the insured. All of them together is the equivalent of a nuclear bomb exploded in the center of the insurance industry.

KenyaCare is not, in any respect, about health care. It is about control of the populace in the hands of an elite few. Catch a few of the Grubergrams on YouTube, and you'll know exactly what I'm talking about.

Quote from: TboneAgain on November 24, 2014, 03:18:19 PM
I didn't say risk is being removed from the health care industry. What I said was that government is forcing insurance companies to ignore risk. That's not the same thing.

Oh, I apologoze. I could have sworn you said risk is being removed. My mistake.

Quote from: TboneAgain on November 24, 2014, 01:00:52 PM
If risk is removed from the insurance business, as KenyaCare is attempting to do, the very concept of insurance is destroyed.

Oh wait, now I'm confused? It looks like you just chastised me for misquoting you but there it is in black and white? Maybe a little less "Kenyacare" and "Uncle Samantha" jokes and a little more proofreading and consistency next time? Don't get me wrong, the jokes are cute, but let's tackle the important things first.

Quote from: TboneAgain on November 24, 2014, 03:18:19 PM
Okay, understand that you know only what the public education establishment has taught you about health care and insurance and government -- nothing.

Yeah? Well what school taught you this one?

Quote from: TboneAgain on November 24, 2014, 03:18:19 PM

Right now, we have Uncle Samantha stepping into the health insurance market and flinging diktats around. "Thou shalt not consider age as a risk factor in rating your coverage."

Any one of these -- and they are all LAW now -- can only increase the cost to insurers, an increase that will be surely and swiftly passed on to the insured.

Age is a huge factor in pricing. That risk is considered, or still exists, or however you want to phrase it this time. A certain plan would cost a 20 year old 72 dollars. It would cost me 127 at my age. It would cost a 70 year old 341 dollars. Check it for yourself.

So did you deliberstely lie about that to strengthen your case, or do you just know less than you think you do?

Quote from: supsalemgr on November 24, 2014, 01:20:39 PM
And this is exactly what Obama and his cronies desired. It is no secret that Obama's ultimate goal is single payer and this is step to get there. If the private companies bail then the wonderful government will come to the rescue and we all can enjoy the level of care our veterans are receiving from the VA.

I love the term "Single Payer" because most everyone thinks that the Government is the Single Payer.

What they fail to realize is that, because the government has no money of its own and must take it (at the point of a gun) from the Citizens, the "Single Payer" is staring back at them from the mirror every morning!

Darth

Quote from: Hector on November 24, 2014, 03:59:47 PM
Oh, I apologoze. I could have sworn you said risk is being removed. My mistake.

Oh wait, now I'm confused? It looks like you just chastised me for misquoting you but there it is in black and white? Maybe a little less "Kenyacare" and "Uncle Samantha" jokes and a little more proofreading and consistency next time? Don't get me wrong, the jokes are cute, but let's tackle the important things first.

Yeah? Well what school taught you this one?

Age is a huge factor in pricing. That risk is considered, or still exists, or however you want to phrase it this time. A certain plan would cost a 20 year old 72 dollars. It would cost me 127 at my age. It would cost a 70 year old 341 dollars. Check it for yourself.

So did you deliberstely lie about that to strengthen your case, or do you just know less than you think you do?

Swell. Another brainless newbie who can't even spell. Just what we need. Screw off, kid.

Quote from: TboneAgain on November 24, 2014, 05:55:33 PM
Swell. Another brainless newbie who can't even spell. Just what we need. Screw off, kid.

I understand it can be frustrating to make an awesome post using neat words like "panoply" and "diktats" only to find out you were factually incorrect about the subject matter. Especially when you just got through insulting my education in the same post. However, theres no reason to get ugly and start with the catty name calling.

But hey, look on the bright side!  Although you refused to awknowledge how wrong you were, at least you pointed out a spelling error I made! Every cloud has a silver lining so you just keep your head up! 

Quote from: Hector on November 24, 2014, 06:16:07 PM
I understand it can be frustrating to make an awesome post using neat words like "panoply" and "diktats" only to find out you were factually incorrect about the subject matter. Especially when you just got through insulting my education in the same post. However, theres no reason to get ugly and start with the catty name calling.

But hey, look on the bright side!  Although you refused to awknowledge how wrong you were, at least you pointed out a spelling error I made! Every cloud has a silver lining so you just keep your head up! 

I think what I said was, "Screw off, kid." What I meant to say was, "Screw off, kid."

Quote from: TboneAgain on November 24, 2014, 06:21:34 PM
I think what I said was, "Screw off, kid." What I meant to say was, "Screw off, kid."

Darth

Quote from: Darth Fife on November 22, 2014, 08:00:31 AM
This is from a friend of mine: (Names have been changed for privacy)

"I am totally flummoxed. NC turned down my daughter, Ann, for Obamacare. The reason: 'Your household's yearly income is too low for a tax credit. Generally, individuals and families whose household income for the year is between 100 percent and 400 percent of the federal poverty line for their family size may be eligible for the tax credit. '

Aren't the people who are below the poverty line the ones that need the help? Ann is laughing about it. I am fuming about it. I am beginning to believe our country is beyond help and only the rich will survive."

I've known this person since high school. She is largely apolitical. She chooses her stance on issues based on the merits of those issues, not party ideology. She is frustrated and I don't blame her in the least.

Darth

What about Vet's, something like 40 percent of the homeless women in the U.S.= vets.

About 40 percent of homeless men, which this President want's to steal job's for illegals from = vets.

Sub standard healthcare and treatment post service. Yep got that going on too.

Which is why I am so steadfastly opposed to amnesty of any kind for those who enter our nation illegally.

If we cannot as a nation make good on the promises made to our veteran's, if we cannot as a nation make sure those who put their ass on the line for the rest of us are taken care of, have a job, have a home.

Then we damned sure can't do so for those who just walked on in from the desert in violation of our law.