The terms "nationalism" and "patriotism" are often used interchangeably. This is understandable, as they have somewhat overlapping meanings, both of which suffer from a certain amount of vagueness. However, there are a number of key differences between the two that are worth shedding light on. In the final analysis, we believe that the term "nationalism," while not denoting anything totalitarian by its nature, is not an accurate term for the sentiment that exists in the United States. Nationalism, it would seem, is more suited to Europe or Asia, places with historic nations, united by common language and ethnicity that are necessarily tied with a certain area of land.

There's a lot to unpack here and the differences are extremely subtle. And to give a bit of a spoiler, we're not going to be taking the position, as is often the case, that patriotism is fine but nationalism is simply a metastatic and malignant form of patriotism.

First Things First: How Do Both Differ From Libertarianism and Conservatism

Before going any further, it's worth taking a few minutes to distinguish both patriotism and nationalism from libertarianism and conservatism. We can do this without parsing out the difference between patriotism and nationalism – and for that matter, libertarianism and conservatism.
Libertarianism and conservatism operate from a similar set of principles. These principles are abstract and platonic in as much as they are about divining the truest form of an ideal ideology from a stated goal. Libertarianism has a clear philosophical principle: more liberty is always good. American conservatism is a diffuse and often contradictory philosophy, but for the purposes of extrapolating the difference between conservatism and other ideologies, we will say that the defining characteristic of American conservatism (as opposed to European conservatism, which has a much greater overlap with nationalism), is that of limited government.

We can conflate both of these ideals into the somewhat more vague notion that "freedom is always good." The point here isn't to oversimplify and make a strawman. It's simply to come up with a uniting ethos to illustrate how nationalism and patriotism as ideologies differ from currents that have been more mainstream on the American right for a longer period of time.

Nationalism and patriotism, on the other hand, might find value in freedom and might even make a secondary goal out of it. However, the uniting principle of each is that it is the country itself, the success of the body politic, that is paramount, not more abstract notions of freedom.

Thus, the key difference is that conservatism and libertarianism are philosophically driven ideologies where results take a backseat to principles. On the other hand, nationalism and patriotism are pragmatic ideologies, where the proof is in the pudding. Another way of phrasing this is that libertarianism and conservatism are non-consequentialist, whereas nationalism and patriotism are consequentialist. Conservatism and libertarianism are guided by "doing the right thing," whereas nationalism and patriotism are more "the ends justify the means" type of philosophies.

It is worth noting, briefly, that Sam Francis, an advisor to the 1996 presidential campaign of Pat Buchanan, urged him to not even compete for the mantle of "conservative," instead telling him to identify as a nationalist, patriot or America Firster. His ideas are considered enormously influential on President Trump's 2016 campaign.

Definition by Contrast: What is Globalism?

Nationalism and patriotism also stand in contrast to globalism. While this term is thrown around a lot, it is worth discussing what it is and what it means and how it is different from its alternatives.

Globalism is, simply put, a view of politics that values trans-national bureaucracies over the nation state. Sometimes these are big, shadowy institutions like the Trilateral Commission or the Bilderberg Group, but more commonly they are far more innocuous-looking non-governmental organizations (NGOs or sometimes "QUANGOs" for "quasi-autonomous non-governmental organizations).

NGOs generally present themselves as some kind of politically neutral entity that is just about "good people doing good things." Amnesty International, for example, was, for many years, an organization dedicated to defending people who were held in jail for their political or religious views. They now lobby for legalized abortion and liberalization of gay marriage laws across the world. Regardless of how one feels about either of these issues, it seems difficult to square either of these with the mission of Amnesty.

NGOs are largely how George Soros exercises power over the political process of countries, which has led to them being expelled from Hungary and Myanmar. They tend to have generic names like "United We Dream" or "International Rescues Committee." Thus, they are difficult to attack on their face – are you opposed to dreams and rescues?

Globalism is marked by both its global orientation and hostility toward the nation state, but also its view that democracy is a means to an end. When the democratic process fails to provide the "correct" result, this is taken as prima facie something has gone wrong and needs to be corrected. This can be seen in the liberal-globalist response to the election of President Trump in 2016, but also the whole attitude of globalists toward nations like Poland and Hungary, whose democracies consistently oppose liberalism in toto at the ballot box.

Continue reading Nationalism vs. Patriotism: What's the Difference and Why it Matters on Ammo.com.

To me:
Nationalism is putting our nations interests and culture first. Rejecting socialism, communism, Marxism, globalism, and leftism.
Patriotism is expressing your nationalism. Flying an American flag doesn't make you a super patriot, but those who burn the flag are enemies of this nation.

Interesting article ad some good points.
To me Nationalism means that all 50 stated are reading off the same sheet of music....EVERYBODY SUPPORTS OUR SYSTEM OF A REPUBLIC & Supports the Constitution while said jurisdictions govern themselves along those ideals but vary a bit in Laws, customs cultures etc but also industry agriculture etc. Nationalism is indeed putting America first especially economically and as a Bastion of freedom and independence.

Nationalism is also a secure Country and especially a secure Border. So yes those ideals of Patriotism and nationalism do bleed into each other.

To just about every Libertarian I've ever run across "Nationalism" is a dirty word, smacking of totalitarianism.

That is why I refer to them as "Liberal"-Tarians".

Quote from: Billy's bayonet on September 07, 2021, 05:21:29 AMInteresting article ad some good points.
To me Nationalism means that all 50 stated are reading off the same sheet of music....EVERYBODY SUPPORTS OUR SYSTEM OF A REPUBLIC & Supports the Constitution while said jurisdictions govern themselves along those ideals but vary a bit in Laws, customs cultures etc but also industry agriculture etc. Nationalism is indeed putting America first especially economically and as a Bastion of freedom and independence.

Nationalism is also a secure Country and especially a secure Border. So yes those ideals of Patriotism and nationalism do bleed into each other.

To just about every Libertarian I've ever run across "Nationalism" is a dirty word, smacking of totalitarianism.

That is why I refer to them as "Liberal"-Tarians".

Nationalism is NOT the same thing as totalitarianism however, many have never looked the words up and have no idea of what the words actually mean. In the same way, many people associate Conservatism with apathy. It's not true, it's never been true and it's a lie that Democrats keep regurgitating because they believe it will help them politically.

It's not unlike the lie that the Democrats kept spreading about President Trump being a "racist". It was NEVER true but, Democrats thought it would help them politically so they continue to spread that lie, even to this day.

'Nationalism vs. Patriotism'?
That may possibly be the case today, but the thought back when I was growing up would have been ludicrous.
The two were inseparable, the Flag represents both, but to think this even possible, shows just how much damage has been done to the younger generations. (Divide and Conquer)

You either believed in what our Founders had created, the greatest nation in history, or one looked for her flaws.
She has no flaws, she only has people within her looking for flaws because of her perfection.

We call these Marxists/communists/Muscum/LIBertarians etc. They hate the idea that people can govern themselves under a system that frees them from politics, allowing them to lead themselves.

Sounds impossible? Then you are too young to remember when that was the norm. it all depended upon your location within the US, the West was for the most part free of the bull shit in DC, while the East was a festering boil of political corruption.

Obvious the Marxists plan worked if people are believing that Nationalism and Patriotism are two separate entities.

Let's just acknowledge the left is trying to label nationalism as something it is not.

To me there is nothing wrong with NATIONALISM, its a good thing. Basically the same as being a patriot. Or like said above, patriotism is the expression of nationalism.

What the left is trying to do is to make NATIONALIST=SUPREMACIST.

Yes Supremacy is a bad thing, thinking your race is magically better than others regardless of culture. It is a philosophy based on hate. But it has nothing to do with nationalism, especially in a multiracial society like america. 

A black nationalist=someone who loves his country and just happens to be black.
A black supremacist=someone who thinks black people are in all ways superior to all other races REGARDLESS OF COUNTRY.

A black/white/etc supremacist will always side with other blacks/whites/etc even from other countries over any other race from their own country.

Quote from: supsalemgr on September 07, 2021, 07:55:02 AMLet's just acknowledge the left is trying to label nationalism as something it is not.

Great point! It seems that the left is good at changing the definition of words to suite their political aims.

Quote from: RV on September 07, 2021, 08:31:59 AMGreat point! It seems that the left is good at changing the definition of words to suite their political aims.

Semantic games.

Quote from: Sick Of Silence on September 06, 2021, 11:44:02 PMTo me:
Nationalism is putting our nations interests and culture first. Rejecting socialism, communism, Marxism, globalism, and leftism.
Patriotism is expressing your nationalism. Flying an American flag doesn't make you a super patriot, but those who burn the flag are enemies of this nation.

Yep, me too.

Quote from: RV on September 07, 2021, 08:31:59 AMGreat point! It seems that the left is good at changing the definition of words to suite their political aims.

WHITE nationalism IS truly racist.
AMERICAN nationalism means JUSTICE for ALL.

Leftists slip in this switcheroo,
labeling all American nationalists as WHITE nationalists.
Presto changeo!  Everyone who has ever advocated justice for all
is immediately branded as "racist!"

They do this so they can cancel everyone in history who has ever advocated for justice.
Their objective is to get people to dismiss out of hand American nationalists.
They want people to reflexively not even read or listen to any arguments for justice.
They do this because they know they can't win a debate with a conservative,
so they do this to get people to consider the conservative disqualified
as a legitimate participant in public debate.

They do this to prevent people from being exposed to actual concepts of justice,
so they can brainwash the people with their concepts of justice,
which are in fact greed and envy and malice and theft,
cloaked in language that claims "justice."

The public schools are an atrocity.
Instead of teaching children skills that can be used to create wealth,
they brainwash the children to envy and hate people who have worked and created wealth.

The politicians have corrupted the school system
to serve the politicians' interests, not the students' well-being.
Instead of teaching skills that would make children become self-sufficient,
they train the children to be helpless and dependent,
mindless pawns for the politicians to use like an army
to seize all wealth and power for the politicians!

Socialism and poverty for the people,
capitalism and fabulous wealth for the ruling clique!

Quote from: supsalemgr on September 07, 2021, 07:55:02 AMLet's just acknowledge the left is trying to label nationalism as something it is not.

Changing definitions of words is the left's special pet project. How else could diversity amount to strength, or racism not apply to certain races?