Quote from: The Boo Man... on July 18, 2016, 09:06:20 PM
The party as it is needs to be put to pasture regardless if it is Ted Cruz or Donald Trump.

Sad to agree, I had hope, but after the paranoia yesterday, shutting down the opportunity to debate, it's pretty CLEAR, the GOP is no longer the home of Conservatives....

I go a step further, and suggest, Donald Trump is the GOPe & Dim dream candidate.

Like they say, don't get mad & stomp away - just go away, I got that message loud-n-clear.

Quote from: jrodefeld on July 19, 2016, 09:32:31 AM
This is what I'm hoping for.  Don't get me wrong, I don't hold the Democratic Party in high esteem either.  But if Trump succeeds in fracturing the GOP base into multiple groups that are intractably divisive, it could spell the end of the GOP as a significant national party.  This could create the opportunity for another Party or political movement to step in and provide a TRUE alternative choice.  Of course I am hoping that the libertarians would fill that void. 

As an aside, who do you think was the last genuinely conservative US president?

Then you obviously haven't a clue as to what is happening.
There are only two groups, the Establishment libs/RINO against the base, that's it.
The only ones fracturing the party are leftists.

Quote from: Solar on July 19, 2016, 10:45:44 AM
Then you obviously haven't a clue as to what is happening.
There are only two groups, the Establishment libs/RINO against the base, that's it.
The only ones fracturing the party are leftists.

That doesn't explain the Trump phenomenon.  He obviously was not the establishment's choice, yet he prevailed because a large segment of the Republican base supported him.  I think we both agree that Trump is not a conservative.  Trump supporters are known as the alt-right.  You can argue that they aren't real conservatives, but they now make up a substantial portion of the GOP base.

If you define "conservative" as someone who believes in small government and the Constitution, I'd argue that there are very few of those people left in the Republican Party.  The sensible ones have left years ago.  I'd argue that the Republican Party has never been a party dedicated to limiting the size and scope of government.  Since Abraham Lincoln, the Republican Party has been a protectionist, corporatist, militaristic big government party.  The only possible exception to this is the very small window of time in the 1940s through the 1950s when people like Robert Taft were the Republican standard bearers. 

There is a reason I asked who you thought was the last genuinely conservative US president.  If you examine the record of all US presidents and the vast majority of US Congressmen and Senators over the last half century or more, you cannot point to a single instance of elected Republicans genuinely scaling back the size and scope of the government.

The real question is, with a record like this, why would you continue to participate in the Republican Party if your concern is smaller government?

Quote from: jrodefeld on July 19, 2016, 10:24:25 PM
That doesn't explain the Trump phenomenon.  He obviously was not the establishment's choice, yet he prevailed because a large segment of the Republican base supported him.  I think we both agree that Trump is not a conservative.  Trump supporters are known as the alt-right.  You can argue that they aren't real conservatives, but they now make up a substantial portion of the GOP base.

If you define "conservative" as someone who believes in small government and the Constitution, I'd argue that there are very few of those people left in the Republican Party.  The sensible ones have left years ago.  I'd argue that the Republican Party has never been a party dedicated to limiting the size and scope of government.  Since Abraham Lincoln, the Republican Party has been a protectionist, corporatist, militaristic big government party.  The only possible exception to this is the very small window of time in the 1940s through the 1950s when people like Robert Taft were the Republican standard bearers. 

There is a reason I asked who you thought was the last genuinely conservative US president.  If you examine the record of all US presidents and the vast majority of US Congressmen and Senators over the last half century or more, you cannot point to a single instance of elected Republicans genuinely scaling back the size and scope of the government.

The real question is, with a record like this, why would you continue to participate in the Republican Party if your concern is smaller government?

Wow, I bet you heard and read all that from leftist media, didn't you?
You really shouldn't base your opinion on what the left tells you to think, it exposes just how much of a tool you are to the thinking public.

Using 2000 and 2008 as baselines, the conclusion was staggering.  Trump only got about 3.3 million Republican Votes.  The rest are Democrats, approximately 12 million of them[.] ... In any event our election was stolen.  Trump would be in fourth, or worse, without Democrats; he would probably only have won New York, and considering he would be doing so badly when that election happened, it is unlikely even there.  We have been tossed to the ground and electorally gang raped by Democrats.

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2016/07/republican_primaries_stolen_by_democrats.html