How an Outsider President Killed a Party
The Whigs chose power over principles when they nominated Zachary Taylor in 1848. The party never recovered.
By Gil Troy
Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/06/history-campaign-politics-zachary-taylor-killed-whigs-political-party-213935#ixzz4AZNrFsDV
Will Trump do the same for the pubs? Could be.
Quote from: tac on June 03, 2016, 06:27:08 PM
How an Outsider President Killed a Party
The Whigs chose power over principles when they nominated Zachary Taylor in 1848. The party never recovered.
By Gil Troy
Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/06/history-campaign-politics-zachary-taylor-killed-whigs-political-party-213935#ixzz4AZNrFsDV
Will Trump do the same for the pubs? Could be.
Now THAT is a pretty good read! Thanks!
Quoteas a nonpartisan outsider, Taylor proved particularly unsuited to manage these internal party battles once elected.
Most dispiriting, Taylor, who made no pledges and had no principles, gave rank-and-file Whig voters nothing to champion, while alienating many of the most committed loyalists. In The Rise and Fall of the American Whig Party, the historian Michael Holt notes that Taylor's victory triggered an "internal struggle for the soul of the Whig party": was it more committed to seizing power or upholding principle? Underlying that debate was also a deeper question, still pressing today, about the role of fame, popularity, celebrity, in presidential campaigning—and American political leadership.
snip~
Republicans might want to consider what is worse: the institutional problems mass defections by "Conscience Republicans" could bring about—or the moral ruin that could come from the ones who stay behind, choosing to pursue party power over principles.
Buckle up, it's happened before, and I'll bet it was quite contentious, here we go again.... Please just stick to your principles, and don't follow the Republican Party off-the-cliff.
LOL!!!
QuoteParty had just chosen an inexperienced, unqualified, loutish, wealthy outsider with ambiguous party loyalties to be its presidential nominee. Some party luminaries thought he would help them win the general election. But many of the faithful were furious and mystified: How could their party to such a degree?
"How could the party compromise its ideals?" Like then, and today, neither party had or has principles of Conservatism, to date, no party has ever represented Conservative Principles.
Quote( Zachary Taylor stern, undisciplined slob)
Man, the author definitely knows Trump. :cool:
Here we see history repeating itself in the quote below.
QuoteDemocrats and the Reps. Whigs—started holding public celebrations lauding Trump Taylor
More historical repetition.
QuoteDespite all this talk of staying away from one party or another, Trump Taylor began inching toward the GOP Whig Party, and the Whigs inched closer to him.
QuoteTrump's Taylor's ambiguous status as a employer of Illegals slaveholder who dodged questions about the escalating Illegals slavery debate seemed to be a clever choice for a party increasingly divided over the Establishments mass support for illegals with the Gang of Eight South's mass enslavement of blacks.
Reading through this, is akin to a comparative window in time, in that the Marxists, the other party overwhelmingly supports our so called candidate today, and just like 150 years ago, and we all know they didn't support him for the good of the country, they did it because they knew it would tear the party apart, and it succeeded very well.
What the Marxists fail to grasp, is they are actually fueling their own demise, considering they are more despised then the GOP.
Conservatives will prevail, the Dims aill not...
If the republican party can't get behind Trump and do the best that they can for our country then the party should die. Trump got a record number of votes from the people................
Quote from: Iron River on July 17, 2016, 06:25:16 AM
If the republican party can't get behind Trump and do the best that they can for our country then the party should die. Trump got a record number of votes from the people................
Idiot lib. I see no reason to continue giving you a soap box from which to throw your feces in an on going ignorant tirade for a leftist in the GOP.
Say good night Sarah, your time is up.
Quote from: Iron River on July 17, 2016, 06:25:16 AM
If the republican party can't get behind Trump and do the best that they can for our country then the party should die. Trump got a record number of votes from the people................
Do yourself a favor, click, read and learn something.
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/06/history-campaign-politics-zachary-taylor-killed-whigs-political-party-213935#ixzz4AZNrFsDV
History is about to repeat, again. Not kidding, an
unnecessary major nation-wide event followed shortly afterward. It is NOT about Trump, nor the GOP - no, look how the stage is being set (by either Hillary or Donald).
Quote from: Hoofer on July 17, 2016, 07:10:53 AM
Do yourself a favor, click, read and learn something.
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/06/history-campaign-politics-zachary-taylor-killed-whigs-political-party-213935#ixzz4AZNrFsDV
History is about to repeat, again. Not kidding, an unnecessary major nation-wide event followed shortly afterward. It is NOT about Trump, nor the GOP - no, look how the stage is being set (by either Hillary or Donald).
Two things, one he's a lib void of historical context that hates the Founders because they were white like him, (Liberal Guilt) and two, I booted his worthless ass. :biggrin:
But isn't it amazing the similarities, correlation between the two men 150 years apart, both part of an event that destroyed their respective party's?
The one thing I found fascinating, was the opposing party's involvement, in both cases the truth is exposed as to just how involved the other party was with the failing one, or rather, just how much control and influence leftists had on both occasions.
Folks if you haven't read it, please do, it's concise and exposes just how much trouble we're in, good or bad, history is repeating itself.
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/06/history-campaign-politics-zachary-taylor-killed-whigs-political-party-213935#ixzz4AZNrFsDV
The republican party might be killed, but not for the reason stated by iron river. The GOP has been on a downward spiral for decades. It use to be right leaning but over the past few decades has moved left, while the democrats have moved on to democratic socialism. Given a few more decades, the GOP will join them.
I see no reason to support Trump just because he put an R after his name. If he were a Conservative he'd probably have my support. But he isn't and he will never have my support.
Quote from: tac on July 17, 2016, 07:34:16 AM
The republican party might be killed, but not for the reason stated by iron river. The GOP has been on a downward spiral for decades. It use to be right leaning but over the past few decades has moved left, while the democrats have moved on to democratic socialism. Given a few more decades, the GOP will join them.
I see no reason to support Trump just because he put an R after his name. If he were a Conservative he'd probably have my support. But he isn't and he will never have my support.
That's what so many fail to understand, it's not so much Trump, but a party that gave a lib a shot over a Constitutional Conservative.
That alone is reason to kill off what is currently the GOP, and resurrect under the conservative banner.
Quote from: Solar on July 17, 2016, 07:38:27 AM
That's what so many fail to understand, it's not so much Trump, but a party that gave a lib a shot over a Constitutional Conservative.
That alone is reason to kill off what is currently the GOP, and resurrect under the conservative banner.
My problem is that the conservative banner is now being stomped to death by so called conservatives. It is mind numbing to see them supporting a self proclaimed liberal that changes his mind every time he open his mouth.
Quote from: Solar on July 17, 2016, 07:38:27 AM
That's what so many fail to understand, it's not so much Trump, but a party that gave a lib a shot over a Constitutional Conservative.
That alone is reason to kill off what is currently the GOP, and resurrect under the conservative banner.
Don't be so eager to hook the monster up to those same old coils, waiting for a second big bolt of lightning. No, Igor, anything but that! :wink:
(https://conservativepoliticalforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.fotki.com%2F1_p%2Csgbqtbbrqgtqrbrxbqfqsbrwqdbw%2Cvi%2Fwgqrfgwxwbqstrwdsxrdfqfgqrg%2F1%2F1595431%2F10201902%2Fival_is_not_mandatory300x227vi-vi.jpg&hash=9eea4674b422707f6153244648d6f541758fa3ed)
Quote from: quiller on July 17, 2016, 07:56:33 AM
Don't be so eager to hook the monster up to those same old coils, waiting for a second big bolt of lightning. No, Igor, anything but that! :wink:
(https://conservativepoliticalforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.fotki.com%2F1_p%2Csgbqtbbrqgtqrbrxbqfqsbrwqdbw%2Cvi%2Fwgqrfgwxwbqstrwdsxrdfqfgqrg%2F1%2F1595431%2F10201902%2Fival_is_not_mandatory300x227vi-vi.jpg&hash=9eea4674b422707f6153244648d6f541758fa3ed)
Think Chemotherapy (clinically dead, noun). Essentially the body is killed off during the process, only to be resurrected after the
cancer Establishment is killed.
Quote from: Solar on July 17, 2016, 07:38:27 AM
That's what so many fail to understand, it's not so much Trump, but a party that gave a lib a shot over a Constitutional Conservative.
That alone is reason to kill off what is currently the GOP, and resurrect under the conservative banner.
Agreed, I see it even bigger than that, and Zachary Taylor's helped stoke the fire and set the stage for the Civil War. I surmise he's more responsible for taking the country PAST the tipping point of using legislation to resolve the Slavery issue and leave Civil War as the only possible solution. A complete populist fraud, a blank slate which allowed anyone's personal viewpoint to have merit.
We have the same thing in Donald Trump, quite literally grab onto any statement you wish, 'cause he's covering ALL the bases & possible positions! I like building the wall & Mexico paying for it - then became "touchback" - then became outright amnesty (why waste the money on a wall?) Pick a position, door number 1, 2, or 3! Sorry, there's nothing behind any of them, the choice was "Donald" not a door. When the electorate IMAGINED Taylor would do - support their cause, whatever they imagined, really was Civil War. We had a Republican party that stank, "hold your nose and vote" - now we can see the turds have risen to the top!
Questioning myself, "Am I hanging onto the Republican party for nostalgia? 'Cause we don't have much in common anymore!" Proof provided by Donald Trump wooing the Socialists via Bernie Sanders, trying to steal support from Hillary!???
Just where are we going to be in 20-30 years? A second Civil War over property rights? Freedom of Speech?
All rise, be silent, raise your right hand in salute - President ---------- is about to enter the WH.
Nothing happens in a vacuum, in this case, the vacuum is sucking up our rights as American Citizens.
This is a MUST read.
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/06/history-campaign-politics-zachary-taylor-killed-whigs-political-party-213935#ixzz4AZNrFsDV
Put it in the timeline of America - the prospects are chilling.
Quote from: Hoofer on July 17, 2016, 08:42:53 AM
Agreed, I see it even bigger than that, and Zachary Taylor's helped stoke the fire and set the stage for the Civil War. I surmise he's more responsible for taking the country PAST the tipping point of using legislation to resolve the Slavery issue and leave Civil War as the only possible solution. A complete populist fraud, a blank slate which allowed anyone's personal viewpoint to have merit.
We have the same thing in Donald Trump, quite literally grab onto any statement you wish, 'cause he's covering ALL the bases & possible positions! I like building the wall & Mexico paying for it - then became "touchback" - then became outright amnesty (why waste the money on a wall?) Pick a position, door number 1, 2, or 3! Sorry, there's nothing behind any of them, the choice was "Donald" not a door. When the electorate IMAGINED Taylor would do - support their cause, whatever they imagined, really was Civil War. We had a Republican party that stank, "hold your nose and vote" - now we can see the turds have risen to the top!
Questioning myself, "Am I hanging onto the Republican party for nostalgia? 'Cause we don't have much in common anymore!" Proof provided by Donald Trump wooing the Socialists via Bernie Sanders, trying to steal support from Hillary!???
Just where are we going to be in 20-30 years? A second Civil War over property rights? Freedom of Speech?
All rise, be silent, raise your right hand in salute - President ---------- is about to enter the WH.
Nothing happens in a vacuum, in this case, the vacuum is sucking up our rights as American Citizens.
This is a MUST read.
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/06/history-campaign-politics-zachary-taylor-killed-whigs-political-party-213935#ixzz4AZNrFsDV
Put it in the timeline of America - the prospects are chilling.
Thirty years will be too late for rebellion, we are teetering on a Civil War within the next five years I'm afraid...
Good or bad, a cleansing is absolutely necessary.
Quote from: Solar on July 17, 2016, 08:52:30 AM
Thirty years will be too late for rebellion, we are teetering on a Civil War within the next five years I'm afraid...
Good or bad, a cleansing is absolutely necessary.
I prefer the "vote the bastards out" method over Civil War - We almost got over that hump with Ted Cruz, my fear is the course of the nation for the next quarter century is about to be determined. Either Trump or Hillary will set the same stage, other than gender, is there a difference in either? Oh, they'll leave their "mark" on society and history will remember them (poorly).
Quote from: Hoofer on July 17, 2016, 09:03:02 AM
I prefer the "vote the bastards out" method over Civil War - We almost got over that hump with Ted Cruz, my fear is the course of the nation for the next quarter century is about to be determined. Either Trump or Hillary will set the same stage, other than gender, is there a difference in either? Oh, they'll leave their "mark" on society and history will remember them (poorly).
As do I, but the GOP has proven they will fight dirty to keep us down.
My reasoning is a generation willing to fight, is the generation that remembers better days for Freedom and liberty, in 30 years there will be very few left, aside from a hand full of their prodigy taught to understand our Constitution and beyond all else, to protect the Bill of Rights, few will know what has been lost.
Honestly, I don't believe enough will be around to establish change and the Marxists will have won if we don't fight soon.
Pessimism is not something I'm known for, but when your own party allies with communists, what recourse do we have?
Lets be honest, the GOP chose a leftist over a Conservative. That's all the evidence the country needs to realize the GOP are the Dim party's merchants for Marxism.
Quote from: Solar on July 17, 2016, 09:13:40 AM
As do I, but the GOP has proven they will fight dirty to keep us down.
My reasoning is a generation willing to fight, is the generation that remembers better days for Freedom and liberty, in 30 years there will be very few left, aside from a hand full of their prodigy taught to understand our Constitution and beyond all else, to protect the Bill of Rights, few will know what has been lost.
Honestly, I don't believe enough will be around to establish change and the Marxists will have won if we don't fight soon.
Pessimism is not something I'm known for, but when your own party allies with communists, what recourse do we have?
Lets be honest, the GOP chose a leftist over a Conservative. That's all the evidence the country needs to realize the GOP are the Dim party's merchants for Marxism.
Dirty fighters, Bohner and McConnel come to mind.
If this information revolution continues, the information revolution isn't diluted by so much trash - I'm very optimistic. Trump in the GOP might be just the kick in the nads needed to get more Conservatives involved.
Quote from: Hoofer on July 17, 2016, 09:57:43 AM
Dirty fighters, Bohner and McConnel come to mind.
If this information revolution continues, the information revolution isn't diluted by so much trash - I'm very optimistic. Trump in the GOP might be just the kick in the nads needed to get more Conservatives involved.
Or angry enough to fight?
Quote from: Solar on July 17, 2016, 10:16:33 AM
Or angry enough to fight?
Good question. Angry enough to form a new party, fund it and work for the cause of Liberty & Freedom?
I don't think we're there yet. On the other hand, the longer it takes, the fewer of us will be left.
Quote from: Hoofer on July 17, 2016, 10:24:04 AM
Good question. Angry enough to form a new party, fund it and work for the cause of Liberty & Freedom?
I don't think we're there yet. On the other hand, the longer it takes, the fewer of us will be left.
I don't either, anyway not unless pushed harder, which is always a possibility...
I don't see a new party being formed, not this generation anyway, because we still see the value in stealing the GOP from the marxists.
Quote from: Solar on July 17, 2016, 11:32:15 AM
I don't either, anyway not unless pushed harder, which is always a possibility...
I don't see a new party being formed, not this generation anyway, because we still see the value in stealing the GOP from the marxists.
Well financially STARVING the GOP is beginning to get their attention.
I find it humorous to get these emails, "Send us money to stop this heathen democrat and their wicked agenda!!!"...
and they stop just short of describing themselves.
Quote from: Hoofer on July 17, 2016, 12:22:09 PM
Well financially STARVING the GOP is beginning to get their attention.
I find it humorous to get these emails, "Send us money to stop this heathen democrat and their wicked agenda!!!"... and they stop just short of describing themselves.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
You're right, they are in panic mode, the base abandoned their worthless scummy asses.
They're literally living off the crumbs of leftists now.
Sheldon Adelson was asked to kick in $6 million to pay off the shortfall in contributions for the GOP convention. Evidently both Pepsi and Coke have both withdrawn pledges, among other big corporate sponsors.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-companies-idUSKCN0ZW060
Follow-up point about Adelson....
QuoteBack in May, during a meeting at the St. Regis Hotel in New York, Adelson told Trump he was willing to contribute substantially to the presumptive Republican nominee's campaign. But no money has been spent yet, in part because a network of pro-Trump super PACs declined to stand aside. Adelson didn't want to fork over cash that would duplicate those efforts, according to a source close to the casino magnate. During Trump's deliberations over the vice-presidential pick, Adelson's allies made clear that he would open the spigot if Gingrich—on whose 2012 presidential campaign Adelson dropped more than $20 million—was the pick, the Adelson ally said.
But the strings-attached offer turned Trump off, according to a Trump confidant. "Trump cannot be bought," says a Trump ally, who was not authorized to speak on the record. "And he didn't like the insinuation that [Adelson] has more money than he does."
http://time.com/4409330/donald-trump-mike-pence-vice-president-2/
Quote from: quiller on July 18, 2016, 02:14:33 AM
Follow-up point about Adelson....
http://time.com/4409330/donald-trump-mike-pence-vice-president-2/
Gee, why all the desperation from a multi billionaire that claimed he was self funding his own campaign? :rolleyes:
I have one of those desperation mailers Trump campaign sends out begging for for money. It's a 9 question survey comparing Trump and Clinton, and the recipient is supposed to answer Yes/No, No Opinion.
Problem is, that's all he could come up with, crap like the Debt, foreign policy, Military, basically little things because trump fundamentally is no different than Clinton, but this mailer is designed to make the donor believe a stark difference exists between the two.
I got thin delivered to my box by accident, it was supposed to go to an idiot neighbor with mental issues.
Not looking at the address, I opened it and was baffled as to why Trump would waste money begging for money from me, then I saw the address.
Point is, the mailer was costly, but the content is on a level of a 8th grade class assignment and the most mediocre of projects was chosen to represent the campaign.
Donations start at $50.0, $75.0 and $100, or fill in the blank sucker. Cruz only asked for a single $1. or $5.0, but Trump starts at $50 which seems real odd for a campaign, either stupid or desperate I don't know, but this, mailer, outside of Dims, is the worst I've seen in my lifetime.
I just realized what should have been the obvious...
Trump probably thinks it's beneath him to appeal to the common (not so wealthy) man for money. It's those guys outside his elitist circle of friends, imagine them taunting Donald for rubbing shoulders with "ugly" and "poor" people.
Maybe they have to be coached... "do not frown or laugh at the plain Jane types in the audience, focus on the teleprompter... we need their votes, after that, you can flip-them-off." Yeah, it sucks, having to lower yourself before millions to beg like a commoner for a silly vote.
Maybe they want to subliminally communicate, "If you vote for Donald, you'll become as pretty as me!" squinty little eyes...
A Glamor or Fashion Show... maybe one of the girls will break a heel walking out to the podium, or the boys will come down with hiccups or uncontrollably belching. I might watch that.
What would Alex Jones say, if Donald pulled a rabbit out of his hat, and swallowed it whole, like a Reptilian from "V"? Yeah, he's kinda got that big throat & head cocked forward... you just never know..
The Republican Party must end.
The party as it is needs to be put to pasture regardless if it is Ted Cruz or Donald Trump.
Quote from: tac on July 17, 2016, 07:49:21 AM
My problem is that the conservative banner is now being stomped to death by so called conservatives. It is mind numbing to see them supporting a self proclaimed liberal that changes his mind every time he open his mouth.
It's not being stomped to death by conservatives, but being independent minded conservatives, we always have trouble uniting behind any one candidate. OTOH, the unprincipled power mongers quickly decide upon backing one candidate, and if necessary force all the other establishment types out.
This is what I'm hoping for. Don't get me wrong, I don't hold the Democratic Party in high esteem either. But if Trump succeeds in fracturing the GOP base into multiple groups that are intractably divisive, it could spell the end of the GOP as a significant national party. This could create the opportunity for another Party or political movement to step in and provide a TRUE alternative choice. Of course I am hoping that the libertarians would fill that void.
As an aside, who do you think was the last genuinely conservative US president?
Quote from: The Boo Man... on July 18, 2016, 09:06:20 PM
The party as it is needs to be put to pasture regardless if it is Ted Cruz or Donald Trump.
Sad to agree, I had hope, but after the paranoia yesterday, shutting down the opportunity to debate, it's pretty CLEAR, the GOP is no longer the home of Conservatives....
I go a step further, and suggest, Donald Trump is the GOPe & Dim dream candidate.Like they say, don't get mad & stomp away - just go away, I got that message loud-n-clear.
Quote from: jrodefeld on July 19, 2016, 09:32:31 AM
This is what I'm hoping for. Don't get me wrong, I don't hold the Democratic Party in high esteem either. But if Trump succeeds in fracturing the GOP base into multiple groups that are intractably divisive, it could spell the end of the GOP as a significant national party. This could create the opportunity for another Party or political movement to step in and provide a TRUE alternative choice. Of course I am hoping that the libertarians would fill that void.
As an aside, who do you think was the last genuinely conservative US president?
Then you obviously haven't a clue as to what is happening.
There are only two groups, the Establishment libs/RINO against the base, that's it.
The only ones fracturing the party are leftists.
Quote from: Solar on July 19, 2016, 10:45:44 AM
Then you obviously haven't a clue as to what is happening.
There are only two groups, the Establishment libs/RINO against the base, that's it.
The only ones fracturing the party are leftists.
That doesn't explain the Trump phenomenon. He obviously was not the establishment's choice, yet he prevailed because a large segment of the Republican base supported him. I think we both agree that Trump is not a conservative. Trump supporters are known as the alt-right. You can argue that they aren't real conservatives, but they now make up a substantial portion of the GOP base.
If you define "conservative" as someone who believes in small government and the Constitution, I'd argue that there are very few of those people left in the Republican Party. The sensible ones have left years ago. I'd argue that the Republican Party has never been a party dedicated to limiting the size and scope of government. Since Abraham Lincoln, the Republican Party has been a protectionist, corporatist, militaristic big government party. The only possible exception to this is the very small window of time in the 1940s through the 1950s when people like Robert Taft were the Republican standard bearers.
There is a reason I asked who you thought was the last genuinely conservative US president. If you examine the record of all US presidents and the vast majority of US Congressmen and Senators over the last half century or more, you cannot point to a single instance of elected Republicans genuinely scaling back the size and scope of the government.
The real question is, with a record like this, why would you continue to participate in the Republican Party if your concern is smaller government?
Quote from: jrodefeld on July 19, 2016, 10:24:25 PM
That doesn't explain the Trump phenomenon. He obviously was not the establishment's choice, yet he prevailed because a large segment of the Republican base supported him. I think we both agree that Trump is not a conservative. Trump supporters are known as the alt-right. You can argue that they aren't real conservatives, but they now make up a substantial portion of the GOP base.
If you define "conservative" as someone who believes in small government and the Constitution, I'd argue that there are very few of those people left in the Republican Party. The sensible ones have left years ago. I'd argue that the Republican Party has never been a party dedicated to limiting the size and scope of government. Since Abraham Lincoln, the Republican Party has been a protectionist, corporatist, militaristic big government party. The only possible exception to this is the very small window of time in the 1940s through the 1950s when people like Robert Taft were the Republican standard bearers.
There is a reason I asked who you thought was the last genuinely conservative US president. If you examine the record of all US presidents and the vast majority of US Congressmen and Senators over the last half century or more, you cannot point to a single instance of elected Republicans genuinely scaling back the size and scope of the government.
The real question is, with a record like this, why would you continue to participate in the Republican Party if your concern is smaller government?
Wow, I bet you heard and read all that from leftist media, didn't you?
You really shouldn't base your opinion on what the left tells you to think, it exposes just how much of a tool you are to the thinking public.
Using 2000 and 2008 as baselines, the conclusion was staggering.
Trump only got about 3.3 million Republican Votes. The rest are Democrats, approximately 12 million of them[.] ... In any event our election was stolen. Trump would be in fourth, or worse, without Democrats; he would probably only have won New York, and considering he would be doing so badly when that election happened, it is unlikely even there. We have been tossed to the ground and electorally gang raped by Democrats.
http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2016/07/republican_primaries_stolen_by_democrats.html