http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/09/14/wisconsin-teachers-union-decertified-in-latest-blow-to-labor-under-walker-law/?intcmp=latestnews

Now we know why the unions put up such a fight about Gov. Scott Walker and the Wisconsin legislature. It would seem the public sector unions are not as popular with the workers as the thugs would have us believe.

Below is a paragraph in the article that confirms what many of us have known.

"The news today proves what unions have long feared -- that when workers are actually given a free and fair choice, they will often choose opt out of union membership altogether," he said.

The next paragraph goes even further.

"The public at large — and an increasing number of union members — have become wise to the fact labor unions stifle innovation and burden governments and businesses with unsustainable costs and regulations."

Gosh, I hope our country is waking up.

Quote from: supsalemgr on September 14, 2013, 11:17:09 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/09/14/wisconsin-teachers-union-decertified-in-latest-blow-to-labor-under-walker-law/?intcmp=latestnews

Now we know why the unions put up such a fight about Gov. Scott Walker and the Wisconsin legislature. It would seem the public sector unions are not as popular with the workers as the thugs would have us believe.

Below is a paragraph in the article that confirms what many of us have known.

"The news today proves what unions have long feared -- that when workers are actually given a free and fair choice, they will often choose opt out of union membership altogether," he said.

The next paragraph goes even further.

"The public at large — and an increasing number of union members — have become wise to the fact labor unions stifle innovation and burden governments and businesses with unsustainable costs and regulations."

Gosh, I hope our country is waking up.

Awesome!  Sounds like the money is getting consolidated, and some fringe organizations are going to be left to die. 

The public Workers Unions, and the Dims, thought they had found the perfect scam. The Dims made membership in the unions compulsory and the unions kicked back a percentage of the compulsory dues, to the Dims. Best thing was, unlike businesses, cities and states couldn't go broke, they just raised taxes. Except they could go broke. And the voters could send their perfect scheme down the drain in one election.

Union membership has been on a downward spiral for decades, nothing new.

"The U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics report on 2012 union membership shows that union membership deceased marginally from 2010 to 2011, from 11.8% in 2010 to 11.1% in 2012. There is a long-term downward trend since 1983, when union membership stood at 20.1% of all wage and salary workers (See Figure 1). "

http://www.ilo.org/washington/ilo-and-the-united-states/spot-light-on-the-us-labor-market/union-membership-us/lang--en/index.htm

QuotePrivate sector unionization, already at the lowest rate since 1901, fell to just 6.6 percent, down from 6.9 percent in 2011. Private sector unionization peaked at 30 percent in 1958 and was still at 20.8 percent as late as 1980.

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/01/25/memb-j25.html

Quote from: redlom xof on September 16, 2013, 09:20:05 AM
Union membership has been on a downward spiral for decades, nothing new.

"The U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics report on 2012 union membership shows that union membership deceased marginally from 2010 to 2011, from 11.8% in 2010 to 11.1% in 2012. There is a long-term downward trend since 1983, when union membership stood at 20.1% of all wage and salary workers (See Figure 1). "

http://www.ilo.org/washington/ilo-and-the-united-states/spot-light-on-the-us-labor-market/union-membership-us/lang--en/index.htm

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/01/25/memb-j25.html

It's been in a downward spiral in PRIVATE SECTOR unions. Stop trying to conflate those with PUBLIC SECTOR unions where they've been growing. Why must you leftists always lie and distort.

Quote from: mdgiles on September 16, 2013, 09:23:44 AM
It's been in a downward spiral in PRIVATE SECTOR unions. Stop trying to conflate those with PUBLIC SECTOR unions where they've been growing. Why must you leftists always lie and distort.

Indeed, the difference leftist like to leave out is that public Sector Unions can hold the entire bureaucracy they represent hostage thereby hold society at large hostage, no private union has that power. It was a reason it was outlawed until JFK betrayed the country.

The concept of the union was outdated when it finally got implemented well into the industralization age, most of the problems were already solved despite leftist propaganda in the media. Today it is a cumbersome corruption driven bureacracy that reduces employment, raises cost and lowers quality. My cousin in Stockholm lost his job because his union demanded better wages and more benefits and the employer closed down the business instead because it became unprofitable. They chose unemployment rather than work, can't say I feel sorry for him when it is his own fault, not like unemployment is something to be feared anyway when you get about the same income either way.

In Norway the president of Labor Party has to be sworn in by the National Union President board... wasn't socialism supposed be against oligarchy? 

Quote from: mdgiles on September 16, 2013, 09:23:44 AM
It's been in a downward spiral in PRIVATE SECTOR unions. Stop trying to conflate those with PUBLIC SECTOR unions where they've been growing. Why must you leftists always lie and distort.

It very clearly says in my quote, PRIVET sector. It also has a graph in my fist link too. If you get distorted by that, you're a simpleton.

Quote from: Mountainshield on September 16, 2013, 09:29:24 AM
Indeed, the difference leftist like to leave out is that public Sector Unions can hold the entire bureaucracy they represent hostage thereby hold society at large hostage, no private union has that power. It was a reason it was outlawed until JFK betrayed the country.

The concept of the union was outdated when it finally got implemented well into the industralization age, most of the problems were already solved despite leftist propaganda in the media. Today it is a cumbersome corruption driven bureacracy that reduces employment, raises cost and lowers quality. My cousin in Stockholm lost his job because his union demanded better wages and more benefits and the employer closed down the business instead because it became unprofitable. They chose unemployment rather than work, can't say I feel sorry for him when it is his own fault, not like unemployment is something to be feared anyway when you get about the same income either way.

In Norway the president of Labor Party has to be sworn in by the National Union President board... wasn't socialism supposed be against oligarchy? 

Unions can/have done both negative and good things. You only see the negatives. There are some things which a society should not wait for the market place to correct ( If it ever does). An example would be health and safety. Another would be a wage where you can feed your family.

Quote from: redlom xof on September 16, 2013, 09:34:11 AM
Unions can/have done both negative and good things. You only see the negatives. There are some things which a society should not wait for the market place to correct ( If it ever does). An example would be health and safety. Another would be a wage where you can feed your family.

So the market is not society?
Is it even part of society in your mind or is it just some evil system used by capitalist pig dogs to trick money from society and make people work for slave labor?

Quote from: Mountainshield on September 16, 2013, 09:42:10 AM
So the market is not society?
Is it even part of society in your mind

A pure market based system is the opposite of a society. As Margaret Thatcher once said "There is no such thing as society".

Quote from: Mountainshield on September 16, 2013, 09:42:10 AM
evil system used by capitalist pig dogs to trick money from society and make people work for slave labor?

Capitalist pigs don't work within a free market system.( It may have some free market fringe elements, but what they strive for is hardly free market. They wont a free market for poor people and a big government working for them. There is a book called " The conservative nanny state" which explains this.

Free market much like extreme left wing ideologies, is something that has never fully been tested. But in theory, I don't support it.

Quote from: redlom xof on September 16, 2013, 09:34:11 AM
Unions can/have done both negative and good things. You only see the negatives. There are some things which a society should not wait for the market place to correct ( If it ever does). An example would be health and safety. Another would be a wage where you can feed your family.

When there is nothing whatsoever good to say about extortionists and criminals, whose intimidation and thuggery forced workers to pay off their local mob boss...I mean, union boss...of course we see only the negatives.

I do agree there are some things we should not wait for the marketplace to correct. NPR has reduced its staff by 10 percent. This is far too slow.

The best way to feed your family is to not give part of it to gangsters, just to hold a job.

Quote from: redlom xof on September 16, 2013, 09:52:43 AM
A pure market based system is the opposite of a society. As Margaret Thatcher once said "There is no such thing as society".

Capitalist pigs don't work within a free market system.( It may have some free market fringe elements, but what they strive for is hardly free market. They wont a free market for poor people and a big government working for them. There is a book called " The conservative nanny state" which explains this.

Free market much like extreme left wing ideologies, is something that has never fully been tested. But in theory, I don't support it.

Market definition; "A medium that allows buyers and sellers of a specific good or service to interact in order to facilitate an exchange."
A pure market is the most integral part of society with regards to human interaction if you ask me. Civilization would never exist without it, therefore society would never exist if it wasn't for a market.

"The conservative nanny state" sounds like something Naomy Klein or whatshername would write a book about

The market you describe is exactly the type of fascism we as conservatives are fighting against. Get with the program and do your homework kid.

FYI extreme left ideologies has been tested all over the world, just to name a few: cambodia, zimbabwe, north korea, nazi germany and soviet union.

Quote from: redlom xof on September 16, 2013, 09:31:05 AM
It very clearly says in my quote, PRIVET sector. It also has a graph in my fist link too. If you get distorted by that, you're a simpleton.

Uh no, you might have meant to say that, but your fingers seem to have betrayed you.

QuotePosted by: redlom xof
Today at 09:20:05 AM
Union membership has been on a downward spiral for decades, nothing new.

I'll just assume it slipped your mind, and that you aren't a lying POS.

Quote from: Mountainshield on September 16, 2013, 10:12:53 AM


The market you describe is exactly the type of fascism we as conservatives are fighting against. Get with the program and do your homework kid.

Kid , really ? Seems to this forum's favorite line. Some conservatives claim to against this in theory, but when it comes down to it, all they do is talk about welfare to single mothers or 'social parasites'. Another great testament to the great 'conservative society'. There is very little talk about welfare to the rich. If you say anything about the rich, this forum will step in as their greatest defenders.

Quote from: Mountainshield on September 16, 2013, 10:12:53 AM

FYI extreme left ideologies has been tested all over the world, just to name a few: cambodia, zimbabwe, north korea, nazi germany and soviet union.

If you put all those ideologies under one bracket and call them all 'left wing', you're confused IMHO. Lets take German Fascism, as that is the one I know read the most about. It is a authoritarian right wing ideology. Read some of Hitler's writings and speeches, he talks about how much he hate he has for socialists and communists.

Soviet Union 'communism' was never true communism. It was a central command economy with a authoritarian government. Workers never had any control over production or economic and political life. Which is a tenant of communist ideology.