Quote from: hfishjr81 on July 10, 2012, 02:23:32 PM

Thanks for the tip on the alternate.


As far as Solar companies going out of business goes, sure they will right now, drilling companies are still cheaply drilling, and fracking, providing at a cheaper cost for the common man. Lots of people cant afford energy efficient homes and automobiles. Its a vicious cycle.

Right now? No, the whole idea that somehow we could magically shift to solar energy was a Unicorn farts dream.
Shell and BP are still making panels because they are established, all the others are going under, simply because govt interfered with the free mkt. when it subsidized the industry, an industry that was working ust fine before Hussein destroyed it.
I spent more than two decades in the alternative field, as soon as the Govt got involved, I got out before they killed my business.

If you take anything away from this conversation, know that anytime Govt gets involved in an free mkt industry, they will kill it, that's just the way the animal bites.

Quote from: hfishjr81 on July 10, 2012, 02:23:32 PM

Thanks for the tip on the alternate.


As far as Solar companies going out of business goes, sure they will right now, drilling companies are still cheaply drilling, and fracking, providing at a cheaper cost for the common man. Lots of people cant afford energy efficient homes and automobiles. Its a vicious cycle.

The loans that were given out to coal, nuclear, hydroelectric, etc., to build power plants, were not guaranteed loans. They are an example of government using our money wisely. The loans were given to companies that were already up, running and profitable...............and all have been paid back with interest. By attempting to build a company from scratch, to the tune of half a billion dollars, Mr Obama has proven that he knows nothing about free market economies, or how our country works.

By handing over that money to Solyndra, Obama helped to kill competing companies and technologies. His experiment failed. His baby fell flat on it's face. And he used our money to do it. We're on the hook. The benefactors of his failed experiment, are now the rich that you claim to hate.

The day will come, that solar, wind, and all kinds of alternate energy sources, as well as new storage solutions, will come to the forefront. People will line up to buy them. That's how a free market economy works. Their time is not here yet, but it will be. If the government stops tampering with the fucking outcome, choosing the winners and losers, etc. The day will get here a lot sooner.

Quote from: kramarat on July 10, 2012, 02:45:44 PM
The loans that were given out to coal, nuclear, hydroelectric, etc., to build power plants, were not guaranteed loans. They are an example of government using our money wisely. The loans were given to companies that were already up, running and profitable...............and all have been paid back with interest. By attempting to build a company from scratch, to the tune of half a billion dollars, Mr Obama has proven that he knows nothing about free market economies, or how our country works.

By handing over that money to Solyndra, Obama helped to kill competing companies and technologies. His experiment failed. His baby fell flat on it's face. And he used our money to do it. We're on the hook. The benefactors of his failed experiment, are now the rich that you claim to hate.

The day will come, that solar, wind, and all kinds of alternate energy sources, as well as new storage solutions, will come to the forefront. People will line up to buy them. That's how a free market economy works. Their time is not here yet, but it will be. If the government stops tampering with the fucking outcome, choosing the winners and losers, etc. The day will get here a lot sooner.

That's the thing K, until a better battery comes along, alternatives have absolutely no place on the grid.
Coal, nuclear and hydro are all proven energy sources, yet the idiot child in the WH is trying to kill them all.
Can libs ever open their eyes?, Puppies do...

Quote from: Solar on July 10, 2012, 02:50:44 PM
That's the thing K, until a better battery comes along, alternatives have absolutely no place on the grid.
Coal, nuclear and hydro are all proven energy sources, yet the idiot child in the WH is trying to kill them all.
Can libs ever open their eyes?, Puppies do...

I was just going to add one more thing.

If the government gets out of the way, removes the onerous taxes, regulations.....................and everything else that stands in the way of smart people trying new things, we'll get there a lot faster.

Damn it's frustrating arguing with liberals.

Quote from: kramarat on July 10, 2012, 03:04:24 PM
I was just going to add one more thing.

If the government gets out of the way, removes the onerous taxes, regulations.....................and everything else that stands in the way of smart people trying new things, we'll get there a lot faster.

Damn it's frustrating arguing with liberals.

Yep, that was my point in the post at the top of this page.
Govt never, ever helps when it gets involved, it only creates mountains of regulations and paperwork.

One of the reasons I got out of the alternative energy field was...
I used to sell and install solar and inverters to switch it from DC to AC, the inverter came with a one year warranty, standard on most expensive electronics, when the State got involved and started giving away taxpayers money to those that bought these systems, they added a little catch, they wanted me to guarantee the system for 10 full years, regardless of the manufacturer warranty.
A year later, they extended this law to cover all systems, in turn killing smaller companies like mine, and playing favorites to the big ones that could absorb the added costs.
These inverters cost around 3 grand a piece, not to mention if for whatever reason the system were to fail, I was to be responsible for it, even if the idiot customer screwed it up, if I couldn't prove negligence on their part, I had to eat the cost.
I still do some work, but only for people I know or come recommended by my friend and the State cannot be involved in any way.

Quote from: hfishjr81 on July 10, 2012, 02:23:32 PM

Thanks for the tip on the alternate.


As far as Solar companies going out of business goes, sure they will right now, drilling companies are still cheaply drilling, and fracking, providing at a cheaper cost for the common man. Lots of people cant afford energy efficient homes and automobiles. Its a vicious cycle.

What do you mean by energy efficient homes and automobiles? Most modern homes are very energy efficient and a diesel powered automobile is more efficient on petrol than a hybrid. and more affordable.

Quote from: kramarat on July 10, 2012, 02:45:44 PM
The day will come, that solar, wind, and all kinds of alternate energy sources, as well as new storage solutions, will come to the forefront. People will line up to buy them. That's how a free market economy works. Their time is not here yet, but it will be. If the government stops tampering with the fucking outcome, choosing the winners and losers, etc. The day will get here a lot sooner.

Sounds great. It's just to bad that time didn't come before the many huge oil spills and fires that have occurred.

Quote from: hfishjr81 on July 10, 2012, 03:32:12 PM
Sounds great. It's just to bad that time didn't come before the many huge oil spills and fires that have occurred.

Are you aware of the amount of oil that the ground spews into the ocean every day?

Quote from: The Boo Man... on July 10, 2012, 03:35:00 PM
Are you aware of the amount of oil that the ground spews into the ocean every day?

Are You aware of the amount of chemicals drilling companies use?

Boo, just because something bad may happen naturally doesn't mean We should recreate it. Are You now going to advocate murder as well?   

Quote from: hfishjr81 on July 10, 2012, 03:53:00 PM
Are You aware of the amount of chemicals drilling companies use?

Boo, just because something bad may happen naturally doesn't mean We should recreate it. Are You now going to advocate murder as well?   

Thank you for answering my question with a question. and then resorting to emotion rather than facts Two liberal traits. Anyway the point that sailed over your increasingly balding head is that the planet heals itself quickly. Within weeks after the BP spill was stopped the oil slick was no longer detectable and the seafood was safe to eat. Sure it would be great if we could power everything on fairy dust and unicorn dandruff but this isn't Utopia. It never will be. Deal with it.

Quote from: The Boo Man... on July 10, 2012, 03:35:00 PM
Are you aware of the amount of oil that the ground spews into the ocean every day?

I doubt he knows that.There have been more natural spill in a year than man has created since the discovery of oil. Right now oil is all over the shores of Santa Barbara, because a once thought dead used  drill site was dry. It is refilling and overflowing, yet because of two different invirowhacko groups are battling over what to do. The local group wants to let the oil company back in for 10 years, the other one up north is suing to stop it. It's the same stupidity we see time and again from many of these groups. Here in San Diego it took ten years to break ground on a desalination plant. And that was a so called good thing until the invirowhackos got involved.Just before it opened, they were sued to get another impact study. concerning the local fish. The fish? Some of the best fishing on the coast is around the plant, and just about every oil rig off shore. We won't see wind farms or solar farms of any significance in this state, precisely because of opposing views of different invirowhackos groups.

Quote from: The Boo Man... on July 10, 2012, 03:58:55 PM
Within weeks after the BP spill was stopped the oil slick was no longer detectable and the seafood was safe to eat.

Emotion? Is it not fact that We shouldn't spill oil?  And are You really going taking up for BP right now? Well, I guess You wouldn't be the only one.   http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0510/36783.html 

Quote from: hfishjr81 on July 10, 2012, 04:10:20 PM

Emotion? Is it not fact that We shouldn't spill oil?  And are You really going taking up for BP right now? Well, I guess You wouldn't be the only one.   http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0510/36783.html

We shouldn't spill oil, but accidents happen, and there is no long term damage.

You need a shoulder to cry on.

Quote from: taxed on July 10, 2012, 04:28:09 PM
We shouldn't spill oil, but accidents happen, and there is no long term damage.

Glad You can at least admit to that^. It's a start. But there are long term damages, the extent of which though are unknown.

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1999479,00.html

"The question is what shape the impact of that catastrophe will take — mentally, physically, emotionally — on the people of the Gulf, now and for generations to come. Much is unknown about the long-term health dangers of an oil spill; few spills have been studied in this way.
A group of doctors and scientists who gathered in New Orleans on June 22 and 23 for a conference on the issue, hastily put together by the Institute of Medicine, came to the inevitable conclusion that a massive, multilateral effort must be launched now to track the health effects of the spill over time — and that researchers were already falling behind. "We have an unknown number of people exposed to an unknown danger," said Dr. Lynn Goldman"

Quote from: taxed on July 10, 2012, 04:28:09 PM
You need a shoulder to cry on.

Thanks, everyone should have a shoulder to cry on. I will assist You as well.   

Quote from: hfishjr81 on July 10, 2012, 04:10:20 PM

Emotion? Is it not fact that We shouldn't spill oil?  And are You really going taking up for BP right now? Well, I guess You wouldn't be the only one.   http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0510/36783.html

Nice strawman cupcake. The issue isn't whether or not we should spill oil. No one spills oil on purpose. yes accidents have happened because of negligence but the planet has not been irreversibly damaged because of the accidents. So until we have viable alternatives do not demonize fossil fuels. It's stupid and naive.