Quote from: suzziY on September 13, 2014, 01:46:26 PM
I along with others refused to vote in 2008 for a RINO and voted for the Constitution Party. We wound up with the worst liberal leftist leaning president in the history of the U.S. who's agenda is to bring down this country.  In addition, the first two years of his presidency we saw a full Democratic majority.  I feel my vote was a mistake as clearly the RNC/GOP establishment didn't get the message ... they backed another RINO in 2012; Romney...and they lost.

Even IF we have a majority in the House and Senate in 2016 it s absolutely no guarantee that they are going to be able to accomplish anything and get past the corruption and veto power of Obama. 

If in 2016 I am faced with voting for a RINO or a Democrat I will more than likely vote RINO as I learned the first time and secondly, TEA is getting stronger and I do believe that a RINO in the oval office along with a GOP House and Senate will be "swayed" to lean more to the right.

You also need to consider that in 2018, we face losing either the Senate or House again ... at that point, can we really afford a Democrat in the oval office? No.

Why? There's no difference between the two. Both party's have been pushing us left for decades, so why would you want to keep the status quo?
I'm done, I refuse to vote for another ass hole, it's TEA or nothing.

Keep in mind, this CPF is pushing TEA only. It's our agenda to steal the GOP from the socialists, at all costs.

Quote from: suzziY on September 13, 2014, 01:46:26 PM
I along with others refused to vote in 2008 for a RINO and voted for the Constitution Party. We wound up with the worst liberal leftist leaning president in the history of the U.S. who's agenda is to bring down this country.  In addition, the first two years of his presidency we saw a full Democratic majority.  I feel my vote was a mistake as clearly the RNC/GOP establishment didn't get the message ... they backed another RINO in 2012; Romney...and they lost.

Even IF we have a majority in the House and Senate in 2016 it s absolutely no guarantee that they are going to be able to accomplish anything and get past the corruption and veto power of Obama. 

If in 2016 I am faced with voting for a RINO or a Democrat I will more than likely vote RINO as I learned the first time and secondly, TEA is getting stronger and I do believe that a RINO in the oval office along with a GOP House and Senate will be "swayed" to lean more to the right.

You also need to consider that in 2018, we face losing either the Senate or House again ... at that point, can we really afford a Democrat in the oval office? No.

I should have just posted your response instead.

Quote from: suzziY on September 13, 2014, 01:25:20 PM
Washington you just stated that politics is "half truth" and then you state that Reagan told the truth which made him great. Your predictions have been right about what the past 7-8 years?  Your prediction that Obama would be president twice or that Romney and McCain were the GOP candidates makes you a political genius? 8 years is only 2 election cycles - with mid terms in between.  I can tell you in a nutshell why the GOP has lost the past two elections ... people are tired of RINO's and a lot of conservatives didn't vote just for the sake of party (as should be).  Many are fed up with the establishment on both sides of the fence. Liberals are gullible, uninformed and many are dependent on the same government that is holding them hostage.  Yet they  voted for those same people time and time again.  Many now realize that there is very little difference between the Democrats and RINO's.  Even though people tend to vote and react with emotion, fear and greed I think you will begin to see a different voting "trend" using the research available to them and many have opened their eyes as to what is really going on around them.  It is very easy to  watch the news and become "attached" to the latest propaganda but many have learned not to listen to the MSM.  This forum has been wonderful for reminding me of that.

I am not a political genius, but I do know that if we as a country continue to place those in office with little regard for the welfare of this country or its Constitution, our country will collapse.  I do know that if we continue not to hold our elected officials responsible our country will collapse.

I believe that our Constitution is the greatest document that was ever written and is the foundation of our Republic. If we continue to deviate from those principles we WILL collapse.  We are on the brink and I at this point have only a glimmer of hope that we will even make it to the 2016 elections.  Everything is riding on what happens during the 2014 elections and the accomplishment of TEA from that point forward.

So why vote for the very people that enabled the left to achieve their goal?

Quote from: Solar on September 13, 2014, 01:57:04 PM
Why? There's no difference between the two. Both party's have been pushing us left for decades, so why would you want to keep the status quo?
I'm done, I refuse to vote for another ass hole, it's TEA or nothing.

Keep in mind, this CPF is pushing TEA only. It's our agenda to steal the GOP from the socialists, at all costs.

I realize that there is very little difference between Democrats and RINO's that's a given and that we agree upon.  I am for Tea, but all I am trying to convey is that in 2008, I and I believe a lot of other conservatives did put our foot down and refused to vote for another RINO asshole and as a result we wound up with Barrak HUSSEIN Obama!

I do not want to see that scenario happen again.  The difference I believe from then till now is we do have some TEA in place in and in all probability come November we will have a GOP majority.  Soo... my thinking is with some TEA in place even IF a RINO is voted in they will be more "encouraged" to move more to the right, which is a better scenario then handing the oval office to a Democrat.

Wit that being said,  I think we need to think a little further ahead ... let's say we stand our ground again refusing only to vote Tea and Tea isn't one of our choices for a presidential candidate and God forbid a Democrat makes it into the oval office (worse case scenario Wigwam Warren); we in 2018 midterms statistically are unlikely to retain the House and Senate both (a lot of House seats will be up for grabs) ... so...we will be right back where we are now ... a Democratic president with only a majority in one of the Houses.  It's not working out so well.

I am not by any means pushing anyone other than TEA.  I think we need to have a strategy in the event that we don't have a choice of a TEA candidate.  If we don't make it in 2016 we certainly don't want to lose momentum by handing the Dems the oval office.  We continue to utilize and make the best out of the TEA we have and continue to build on what we have already accomplished.  Patience and persistence are key here. 

Quote from: suzziY on September 13, 2014, 10:51:58 PM
I realize that there is very little difference between Democrats and RINO's that's a given and that we agree upon.  I am for Tea, but all I am trying to convey is that in 2008, I and I believe a lot of other conservatives did put our foot down and refused to vote for another RINO asshole and as a result we wound up with Barrak HUSSEIN Obama!

I do not want to see that scenario happen again.  The difference I believe from then till now is we do have some TEA in place in and in all probability come November we will have a GOP majority.  Soo... my thinking is with some TEA in place even IF a RINO is voted in they will be more "encouraged" to move more to the right, which is a better scenario then handing the oval office to a Democrat.

Wit that being said,  I think we need to think a little further ahead ... let's say we stand our ground again refusing only to vote Tea and Tea isn't one of our choices for a presidential candidate and God forbid a Democrat makes it into the oval office (worse case scenario Wigwam Warren); we in 2018 midterms statistically are unlikely to retain the House and Senate both (a lot of House seats will be up for grabs) ... so...we will be right back where we are now ... a Democratic president with only a majority in one of the Houses.  It's not working out so well.

I am not by any means pushing anyone other than TEA.  I think we need to have a strategy in the event that we don't have a choice of a TEA candidate.  If we don't make it in 2016 we certainly don't want to lose momentum by handing the Dems the oval office.  We continue to utilize and make the best out of the TEA we have and continue to build on what we have already accomplished.  Patience and persistence are key here.

First off, you need to drop the idea that the Dims will have any power whatsoever, they will not, they are dead in the water!
They just screwed the entire nation, and threw their base off the cliff, they no longer have any support structure, they know it, the LSM knows it, the RINO know it, why is it you're the last to know it?

Point is, with both Houses under our control, there''s absolutely nothing a Dim POTUS could do, but capitulate to the Right, but then that's sprinkling this fantasy with fairy dust and heating it with Unicorn farts, because there is no way in Hell a Dim will be elected in 2016, none, nada, Zip!@

So why in the Hell would you even entertain the idea of sacrificing your ideals and settle for a socialist lite, when you can force the establishment to deal on your terms?

Let me repeat, and let this sink in.
The Dim Party you as you know it, is "DEAD", it will not be resurrected, the nation has rejected the idea of a socialist state, which leaves the Dim party three options, and you tell me which one you think they'll choose.

We know they are hated for the lies, deceit and broken promises, ruined economy, higher energy costs, food, unemployment, illegal invasion etc. right?

So which way will a party that's heads under water and gasping for air turn, will they continue their failed policies of lies, or will they double down on stupid and go full blown Marxist, orr...might they move to the Right?

The answer is, blatantly Right, they have absolutely no other options left, and with that little bit of knowledge, where do you suppose the GOP will move? To the Right of course, and who is on the RIGHT? TEA!!!!

If you'd rather react on emotion instead of critical thinking, then you'll always play the victim and do as your puppet masters in the establishment demand and vote socialist lite, but if you have the guts to think for yourself, stand on principle and values, and turn off the God Damned TV, you'll see what I'm talking about.

Just quit reacting out of fear, that's exactly what both party's want you to do!

Quote from: Solar on September 14, 2014, 05:38:05 AM
First off, you need to drop the idea that the Dims will have any power whatsoever, they will not, they are dead in the water!
They just screwed the entire nation, and threw their base off the cliff, they no longer have any support structure, they know it, the LSM knows it, the RINO know it, why is it you're the last to know it?

Point is, with both Houses under our control, there''s absolutely nothing a Dim POTUS could do, but capitulate to the Right, but then that's sprinkling this fantasy with fairy dust and heating it with Unicorn farts, because there is no way in Hell a Dim will be elected in 2016, none, nada, Zip!@

So why in the Hell would you even entertain the idea of sacrificing your ideals and settle for a socialist lite, when you can force the establishment to deal on your terms?

Let me repeat, and let this sink in.
The Dim Party you as you know it, is "DEAD", it will not be resurrected, the nation has rejected the idea of a socialist state, which leaves the Dim party three options, and you tell me which one you think they'll choose.

We know they are hated for the lies, deceit and broken promises, ruined economy, higher energy costs, food, unemployment, illegal invasion etc. right?

So which way will a party that's heads under water and gasping for air turn, will they continue their failed policies of lies, or will they double down on stupid and go full blown Marxist, orr...might they move to the Right?

The answer is, blatantly Right, they have absolutely no other options left, and with that little bit of knowledge, where do you suppose the GOP will move? To the Right of course, and who is on the RIGHT? TEA!!!!

If you'd rather react on emotion instead of critical thinking, then you'll always play the victim and do as your puppet masters in the establishment demand and vote socialist lite, but if you have the guts to think for yourself, stand on principle and values, and turn off the God Damned TV, you'll see what I'm talking about.

Just quit reacting out of fear, that's exactly what both party's want you to do!

Obviously you and I have a difference of opinion and I certainly hope your prediction for the future is correct and indeed the Democratic party is dead.  However, it isn't the damn TV set that has formed my opinion but rather life experiences and interaction with liberal minded people.  I work for a large company that has some very liberal minded people with various different clientele  as well as I converse in a liberal forum and have tried to open their eyes.  Unfortunately the liberal leftist mentality midget mindset is still alive and well and they have their damn heads up where the sun doesn't shine!

You may see the liberals as finally coming to the realization that they screwed the entire nation and themselves, but I see and hear otherwise.  The liberals still defend Obama, they still think ISIS is not a threat.  They feel I am racist because I am against illegal immigration and am appalled at the kids that are here and our open borders.  They view me as anti-Christian and full of hate because I firmly believe in our 2nd amendment rights.  They feel that the Benghazi scandal and Fast 'n Furious scandals are nothing more than Republican witch hunts and lies.  They believe that Obama pulled us out of Iraq when he did according to some pact Bush made with Iraq!  So far, the only issue that some of the liberals have with Obama is that he failed with the VA. I live in the State of Florida our Republican governor who has brought jobs to the area, streamlined the budget and as a result we are now flourishing is up against a Republican (RINO), turned Independent and now turned Democrat and the polls show he is now leading. 

So, I stand by my opinion. Yes, I sure as hell hope we will have the opportunity to vote TEA into the White House, but in the event that we don't, I sure as hell am not going to allow my vote to hand the White House to the Democrats; especially IF from 2014-2016 the Republican majority in the House and Senate can't make any headway. I firmly believe that TEA is alive and well but also firmly believe that we need to continue to build upon the accomplishment of TEA this far; basically we need to build from the ground up.  With patience and persistence we WILL seat TEA in the oval office. 

Quote from: suzziY on September 14, 2014, 07:49:20 AM
Obviously you and I have a difference of opinion and I certainly hope your prediction for the future is correct and indeed the Democratic party is dead.  However, it isn't the damn TV set that has formed my opinion but rather life experiences and interaction with liberal minded people.  I work for a large company that has some very liberal minded people with various different clientele  as well as I converse in a liberal forum and have tried to open their eyes.  Unfortunately the liberal leftist mentality midget mindset is still alive and well and they have their damn heads up where the sun doesn't shine!

You may see the liberals as finally coming to the realization that they screwed the entire nation and themselves, but I see and hear otherwise.  The liberals still defend Obama, they still think ISIS is not a threat.  They feel I am racist because I am against illegal immigration and am appalled at the kids that are here and our open borders.  They view me as anti-Christian and full of hate because I firmly believe in our 2nd amendment rights.  They feel that the Benghazi scandal and Fast 'n Furious scandals are nothing more than Republican witch hunts and lies.  They believe that Obama pulled us out of Iraq when he did according to some pact Bush made with Iraq!  So far, the only issue that some of the liberals have with Obama is that he failed with the VA. I live in the State of Florida our Republican governor who has brought jobs to the area, streamlined the budget and as a result we are now flourishing is up against a Republican (RINO), turned Independent and now turned Democrat and the polls show he is now leading. 

So, I stand by my opinion. Yes, I sure as hell hope we will have the opportunity to vote TEA into the White House, but in the event that we don't, I sure as hell am not going to allow my vote to hand the White House to the Democrats; especially IF from 2014-2016 the Republican majority in the House and Senate can't make any headway. I firmly believe that TEA is alive and well but also firmly believe that we need to continue to build upon the accomplishment of TEA this far; basically we need to build from the ground up.  With patience and persistence we WILL seat TEA in the oval office.

Talking politics with a lib is a fruitless endeavor, they care nothing of facts, only emotion.
With that in mind, why did Hussein sweep into office? Because no one knew anything about him, and two, the media made him out to be the second coming, now consider the 2016 hopefuls, Marxists just like Hussein, except we know a Hell of a lot about their failures, both would continue failed Marxist policy.

Now factor in Hussein's crashing poll numbers. do you seriously think running on his policies is a winning hand, do you see a rock star image in any of the candidates.
Think Suzzi, regardless of what the libs tell you, even they know the left is a failure, so much so, apathy will spread like a cancer after the beating they'll receive in Nov.

What you're seeing is emotional knee jerk responses, it's what libs do, they always reject the Right, but that does not equate to being energized to vote, they have absolutely no one to get behind that has a fresh approach, just like the Right, the RINO never give us anyone to get energized over, so turnout is apathetic at best.

Oh, and you really need to be selective when viewing polls, never ever take them out of hand as correct, look at it's internals, that's where the truth lies.
And FWIW, this is not prediction or hope, this is watching and devouring politics for decades, it's also taking into consideration the enormity of failure of the left and how they angered the country, and why so many on the left are leaving the Dim party for the Libertarian movement, a prediction I made nearly four years ago, based solely on history.

Again, let me reiterate, if you support the RINO, then that's what you'll continue to get, status quo establishment.
Don't miss the opportunity to put a nail in the coffin of the RINO.
Also, keep in mind, you have a huge audience on this forum, thousands daily read these posts, which includes RINO looking for any glimmer of hope that they can run another RINO, and your willingness to toss out your values is exactly the opening they're looking for..

Hint: Don't encourage the enemy.

Quote from: Solar on September 14, 2014, 10:06:43 AM
Talking politics with a lib is a fruitless endeavor, they care nothing of facts, only emotion.
With that in mind, why did Hussein sweep into office? Because no one knew anything about him, and two, the media made him out to be the second coming, now consider the 2016 hopefuls, Marxists just like Hussein, except we know a Hell of a lot about their failures, both would continue failed Marxist policy.

Now factor in Hussein's crashing poll numbers. do you seriously think running on his policies is a winning hand, do you see a rock star image in any of the candidates.
Think Suzzi, regardless of what the libs tell you, even they know the left is a failure, so much so, apathy will spread like a cancer after the beating they'll receive in Nov.

What you're seeing is emotional knee jerk responses, it's what libs do, they always reject the Right, but that does not equate to being energized to vote, they have absolutely no one to get behind that has a fresh approach, just like the Right, the RINO never give us anyone to get energized over, so turnout is apathetic at best.

Oh, and you really need to be selective when viewing polls, never ever take them out of hand as correct, look at it's internals, that's where the truth lies.
And FWIW, this is not prediction or hope, this is watching and devouring politics for decades, it's also taking into consideration the enormity of failure of the left and how they angered the country, and why so many on the left are leaving the Dim party for the Libertarian movement, a prediction I made nearly four years ago, based solely on history.

Again, let me reiterate, if you support the RINO, then that's what you'll continue to get, status quo establishment.
Don't miss the opportunity to put a nail in the coffin of the RINO.
Also, keep in mind, you have a huge audience on this forum, thousands daily read these posts, which includes RINO looking for any glimmer of hope that they can run another RINO, and your willingness to toss out your values is exactly the opening they're looking for..

Hint: Don't encourage the enemy.

Thanks for the info.  No, definitely DO NOT want to support a RINO; they are why this country is in the tremendous turmoil we're in.  I've written to the RNC and told them I would not vote for a RINO as a RINO will certainly lose again for the third time. I gave them a list of several candidates that certainly would outperform a Bush or a Christie and I am not sending the RNC a dime this time around either unless they get behind TEA.

Quote from: suzziY on September 14, 2014, 11:25:28 AM
Thanks for the info.  No, definitely DO NOT want to support a RINO; they are why this country is in the tremendous turmoil we're in.  I've written to the RNC and told them I would not vote for a RINO as a RINO will certainly lose again for the third time. I gave them a list of several candidates that certainly would outperform a Bush or a Christie and I am not sending the RNC a dime this time around either unless they get behind TEA.

I will only send money to the person NOT the RNC.  It's like give money to the Red Cross or United Good Neighbors when you give to the RNC.

Quote from: walkstall on September 14, 2014, 11:41:59 AM
 

I will only send money to the person NOT the RNC.  It's like give money to the Red Cross or United Good Neighbors when you give to the RNC.

I have donated to both individuals and donated and helped out the RNC several elections ago.  They are not worthy.  I now only donate to individuals...ya, I learned the hard way awhile ago.

Quote from: suzziY on September 14, 2014, 12:16:24 PM
I have donated to both individuals and donated and helped out the RNC several elections ago.  They are not worthy.  I now only donate to individuals...ya, I learned the hard way awhile ago.

I found at a very young age in my long life, sometimes it's the best way to learn.

You're right. Dems HAVEN'T learned anything from Obama's reign. THEY still hold their views and will support the next liberal to run against our candidate. So far, it looks like Hillary or Warren.

What we do have on our side are the majority of REAL Americans and the HUGE number of "independents." What most Washington elites fail to realize is that the vast majority of these "independents" are former Reagan Republicans (meaning economic AND social) conservatives who just can't bring themselves to call themselves "Republican." You and I are among those.

The Republican elites think these independents can only be reached by "moderating" their views, but these people are sick of the Obama years and are now looking for a candidate who can present a SHARP and distinct CONTRAST -- not Democrat Lite.

OUR duty is to win in the PRIMARY and NEVER give to the RNC -- unless you want THEIR candidate. They have piles of money coming in from sources like the Chamber of Commerce, but there's no reason we should give them one dime.

Quote from: suzziY on September 14, 2014, 07:49:20 AM
Obviously you and I have a difference of opinion and I certainly hope your prediction for the future is correct and indeed the Democratic party is dead.  However, it isn't the damn TV set that has formed my opinion but rather life experiences and interaction with liberal minded people.  I work for a large company that has some very liberal minded people with various different clientele  as well as I converse in a liberal forum and have tried to open their eyes.  Unfortunately the liberal leftist mentality midget mindset is still alive and well and they have their damn heads up where the sun doesn't shine!

You may see the liberals as finally coming to the realization that they screwed the entire nation and themselves, but I see and hear otherwise.  The liberals still defend Obama, they still think ISIS is not a threat.  They feel I am racist because I am against illegal immigration and am appalled at the kids that are here and our open borders.  They view me as anti-Christian and full of hate because I firmly believe in our 2nd amendment rights.  They feel that the Benghazi scandal and Fast 'n Furious scandals are nothing more than Republican witch hunts and lies.  They believe that Obama pulled us out of Iraq when he did according to some pact Bush made with Iraq!  So far, the only issue that some of the liberals have with Obama is that he failed with the VA. I live in the State of Florida our Republican governor who has brought jobs to the area, streamlined the budget and as a result we are now flourishing is up against a Republican (RINO), turned Independent and now turned Democrat and the polls show he is now leading. 

So, I stand by my opinion. Yes, I sure as hell hope we will have the opportunity to vote TEA into the White House, but in the event that we don't, I sure as hell am not going to allow my vote to hand the White House to the Democrats; especially IF from 2014-2016 the Republican majority in the House and Senate can't make any headway. I firmly believe that TEA is alive and well but also firmly believe that we need to continue to build upon the accomplishment of TEA this far; basically we need to build from the ground up.  With patience and persistence we WILL seat TEA in the oval office.

Quote from: suzziY on September 14, 2014, 12:16:24 PM
I have donated to both individuals and donated and helped out the RNC several elections ago.  They are not worthy.  I now only donate to individuals...ya, I learned the hard way awhile ago.

Exactly what I do. I recently donated to my sheriff's campaign and received a personal call from him thanking me for the contribution.

Quote from: Solar on September 14, 2014, 10:06:43 AM
Again, let me reiterate, if you support the RINO, then that's what you'll continue to get, status quo establishment.
Don't miss the opportunity to put a nail in the coffin of the RINO.
Also, keep in mind, you have a huge audience on this forum, thousands daily read these posts, which includes RINO looking for any glimmer of hope that they can run another RINO, and your willingness to toss out your values is exactly the opening they're looking for..

Hint: Don't encourage the enemy.

Solar, I'm curious as to what you suggest we do or what your plan is for 2016.  Both of us live in CA and our primary doesn't occur until June.  Last time around Romney had already been declared the winner by the time it got around to us.  Of course I can still vote TEA but it seems inconsequential at that point.  I was planning to vote in the Democrat primary instead but there was none so I couldn't do that.  I cast my vote for the person I liked but it didn't make a difference.

A few years ago I actually considered moving to New Hampshire so that I could have an impact.  But then I saw the snow and remembered why I moved to CA.   

Quote from: KBRgirl on September 14, 2014, 12:47:04 PM
Solar, I'm curious as to what you suggest we do or what your plan is for 2016.  Both of us live in CA and our primary doesn't occur until June.  Last time around Romney had already been declared the winner by the time it got around to us.  Of course I can still vote TEA but it seems inconsequential at that point.  I was planning to vote in the Democrat primary instead but there was none so I couldn't do that.  I cast my vote for the person I liked but it didn't make a difference.

A few years ago I actually considered moving to New Hampshire so that I could have an impact.  But then I saw the snow and remembered why I moved to CA.   

Yeah, closed primary, its the only reason I'm registered Pub, I want to select who enters from the ground up, but if they screw us again, I'm registering "I".

I'll write in, depending on who's left standing. But I know how frustrated you are, they really screwed us by having such a late primary, but it's how the party's have rigged it, to keep a 3rd at bay.

Quote from: Darth Fife on July 26, 2014, 07:53:13 AM
Perhaps I have a different outlook on things because I live in Utah.

We used to have a primary system here that allowed the individual a great deal of input to the electoral process, and minimized the influence of "Big Money" - the caucus system.

It was successful in booting RINO Bob Bennett out of the Senate and replacing him with Mike Lee (Yeah).

How did the Republican Party react to that? They started a campaign to change the primary system to a simple popular vote process - called euphemistically the Count My Vote campaign. That would mean that the candidate with the deepest pockets would nearly always win the Republican primaries!

In other word the RINO machine will be able to pick and choose who they want to be our Congressmen and Senators.

It is supported by (surprise, surprise) Mitt Romney, former Utah RINO politicians and just about every labor union in the state including the Utah Educators Association (the NEA of Utah!)

It should be obvious to anyone that the Republican Establishment will destroy the party before they give up power.

-Darth

Solar is right on the money with this. As part of the republican party the tea party has been able to gain in the house and the senate. By working in the system it becomes a war of attrition that the Tea Party can win over time If they stick to their principles.
If the Tea separated and formed it's own party it would lose a lot of support from life long conservatives that have been in the republican party all their lives and would refuse to move over. The result would be a split in the conservative movement and a weakening of the republican party at a time that we need them to take the country back.
a war of attrition is a long war won by putting up good upstanding conservatives that share the Tea parties beliefs and creating a voting block that the RINO's will have to come to to clear their legislation! Over time the laws being passed will reflect more and more conservatives values if the republicans control both houses of congress!
The Tea Party has come a long way in a very short political lifetime. Don't Kill it by overreaching at the wrong time.