I swear, he really seems to be overcompensating for a lack of height, testosterone, or an incomplete Barby collection.

Question: Will Kim/Bi attack, or will Husein use this as another distraction?
We know neither of these so called leaders is trustworthy, and Husein has proven time and time again, he never lets a crisis go to waste.

So what do you think is going to happen?

IMHO the man child from NK is laughing his butt off as he watches the world's # 1 super power jump through it's a** to counter the GI Joe game he is playing.  Based on their previous lack of success with nukes and missiles they stand a better chance of doing harm to themselves then they do anyone else.  However, if he elects to run human waves across the 38th Parallel he could do some major damage. 

My guess is there will be shots exchanged in the western islands and he will blame the South for firing the first shot.  After that things will be all lovey dovey by August so Dennis Rodman can go kiss his hero's a**. 

Quote from: Reality on April 04, 2013, 05:26:59 PM
IMHO the man child from NK is laughing his butt off as he watches the world's # 1 super power jump through it's a** to counter the GI Joe game he is playing.  Based on their previous lack of success with nukes and missiles they stand a better chance of doing harm to themselves then they do anyone else.  However, if he elects to run human waves across the 38th Parallel he could do some major damage. 

My guess is there will be shots exchanged in the western islands and he will blame the South for firing the first shot.  After that things will be all lovey dovey by August so Dennis Rodman can go kiss his hero's a**.

I do suspect the little wannabe man, meaning the dictator, umm Marxist, Damn, I can't believe I have to clarify the NK leader, and not our own child potus, seeing how they are so much alike.

I digress, I think he will force himself into a corner and with no way out or saving face, take the first shot and the South will obliterate his rocket emplacements.

I worked with the ROK Army in Korea, they are one tough, very proud and serious Military.

I have some ROK time myself and I agree the ROK Military is very capable of taking care of itself and I do not think the Chicoms will stick their nose in the fight this time. 

I have to believe that there are at least a few people in the North Korean military that are aware of the world outside of North Korea and would not allow the kid to actually start a war with the US.

Quote from: Reality on April 04, 2013, 06:33:06 PM
I have some ROK time myself and I agree the ROK Military is very capable of taking care of itself and I do not think the Chicoms will stick their nose in the fight this time.

I was thinking about that too, just how far are they willing to let NK get beat up before they step in?
After all, they like NK as a buffer to the West, I know they don't want a South styled NK on their border, but who knows..

Quote from: Solar on April 04, 2013, 06:56:27 PM
I was thinking about that too, just how far are they willing to let NK get beat up before they step in?
After all, they like NK as a buffer to the West, I know they don't want a South styled NK on their border, but who knows..

It's hard for me to imagine that China will interfere on NK's side, and there are already some stories filtering out that they're not happy with their Communist comrades to the south. It's no secret that even a land incursion against SK will be seen as a direct attack on not only SK, but also the US, and the Boy Wonder is not shy about framing it in exactly those terms. For China to jump in behind NK is for China to potentially sever all relations with its largest international trading partner -- us.

IIRC, the Guinness record for the shortest war in history is like, minutes. An NK attack and our retaliation -- assuming the Kenyan can muster something along that line -- might set a new record. In the meantime I don't think the folks in Austin (?!) have too much to worry about. Kim's tinkertoy rockets couldn't lift one of his boxcar nukes to Japan, and then would miss.

I'll close with a salute to the modern state of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea -- this is an actual satellite photo of the Korean peninsula at night. The borders have been superimposed. Can you say, "lights out?" 

Quote from: TboneAgain on April 04, 2013, 07:47:00 PM
It's hard for me to imagine that China will interfere on NK's side, and there are already some stories filtering out that they're not happy with their Communist comrades to the south. It's no secret that even a land incursion against SK will be seen as a direct attack on not only SK, but also the US, and the Boy Wonder is not shy about framing it in exactly those terms. For China to jump in behind NK is for China to potentially sever all relations with its largest international trading partner -- us.

IIRC, the Guinness record for the shortest war in history is like, minutes. An NK attack and our retaliation -- assuming the Kenyan can muster something along that line -- might set a new record. In the meantime I don't think the folks in Austin (?!) have too much to worry about. Kim's tinkertoy rockets couldn't lift one of his boxcar nukes to Japan, and then would miss.

I'll close with a salute to the modern state of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea -- this is an actual satellite photo of the Korean peninsula at night. The borders have been superimposed. Can you say, "lights out?" 

I always get a kick out of that picture.

I guess it all comes down to how far we would be willing to go.
Our options are to obliterate his ability to wage war, 2nd regime change.
The first option, China would sit silent, the second would be another story, China does not want freedom on it's borders, period.

Quote from: Solar on April 04, 2013, 08:42:42 PM
I always get a kick out of that picture.

I guess it all comes down to how far we would be willing to go.
Our options are to obliterate his ability to wage war, 2nd regime change.
The first option, China would sit silent, the second would be another story, China does not want freedom on it's borders, period.

It might be more complicated than that. The Kenyan is one wild card, a completely unproven leader in serious conflict and a pacifist, no matter how he yearns to be seen as a tough guy. Kim obviously is another wild card, and his willingness to provoke us and commit to war are not known. It is fact that the US military could literally erase NK as a military force in a span of minutes -- we're talking missile flight times -- if the maximum response is taken. The Kenyan, I think, is not capable of that. In fairness, I think we haven't had a president since Reagan who was capable of that. But, again in fairness, the blusterings of a little fat boy in a strange backward little country halfway around the world are not the stuff of immediate concern.

In any case, such a move would involve a hell of a lot of collateral casualties. NK's population is heavily concentrated in the southern non-mountainous part of the country; 1 of 7 North Koreans lives in Pyongyang. NK claims its population has a world-beating literacy rate of 99%, but what they see, read, and hear is completely controlled by Kim's government, and any move against them will stir up the most heinous atrocity stories in the government-controlled media. This effect could spill over to China, which has a pretty obvious interest in the whole thing, and which also tightly regulates its media.

We'll see, won't we?

I think the place ought to be re-designated as the DNPNRNK. That stands for "Democratic (NOT) People's (NOT) Republic (NOT) of Korea."

Quote from: Solar on April 04, 2013, 08:42:42 PM
I always get a kick out of that picture.

I guess it all comes down to how far we would be willing to go.
Our options are to obliterate his ability to wage war, 2nd regime change.
The first option, China would sit silent, the second would be another story, China does not want freedom on it's borders, period.

China would have a decision to make if N & S go to war. I agree China would prefer not to have a "freedom" country on their border. However, would they prefer that to having millions of refugees from NK moving into China as China has its own domestic issues. I think it is possible China has enough experience with a capitalist system to realize it is not as big a threat as they would have thought 20 years ago.

I liked the way Reagan dealt with Ghaddaffi during a similar situation.


He blew up his house.

Reagan bombs Libya

Quote from: kramarat on April 05, 2013, 05:29:43 AM
I liked the way Reagan dealt with Ghaddaffi during a similar situation.


He blew up his house.

Reagan bombs Libya

My company had an award trip to Paris scheduled for 1986. Our CEO was an ex-marine. When the French would not allow the flights over French airspace the trip to Paris was cancelled.

Quote from: supsalemgr on April 05, 2013, 05:33:20 AM
My company had an award trip to Paris scheduled for 1986. Our CEO was an ex-marine. When the French would not allow the flights over French airspace the trip to Paris was cancelled.

Good. Screw the French.

I wasn't there when we bombed Libya, but had taken part in exercises right off their coast a couple of years earlier. Watching Reagan is a real reminder of how far we have slid as a nation.

Reagan put Ghaddaffi in his place very quickly. It's notable, that, not only did Obama illegally commit US troops to dispose of him, but helped to replace him with active terrorists.

Quote from: TboneAgain on April 04, 2013, 09:25:30 PM
It might be more complicated than that. The Kenyan is one wild card, a completely unproven leader in serious conflict and a pacifist, no matter how he yearns to be seen as a tough guy. Kim obviously is another wild card, and his willingness to provoke us and commit to war are not known. It is fact that the US military could literally erase NK as a military force in a span of minutes -- we're talking missile flight times -- if the maximum response is taken. The Kenyan, I think, is not capable of that. In fairness, I think we haven't had a president since Reagan who was capable of that. But, again in fairness, the blusterings of a little fat boy in a strange backward little country halfway around the world are not the stuff of immediate concern.

In any case, such a move would involve a hell of a lot of collateral casualties. NK's population is heavily concentrated in the southern non-mountainous part of the country; 1 of 7 North Koreans lives in Pyongyang. NK claims its population has a world-beating literacy rate of 99%, but what they see, read, and hear is completely controlled by Kim's government, and any move against them will stir up the most heinous atrocity stories in the government-controlled media. This effect could spill over to China, which has a pretty obvious interest in the whole thing, and which also tightly regulates its media.

We'll see, won't we?

Nah, there wouldn't be as many civilian casualties as you might think, considering every male of age is a soldier with a gun and uniform, well uniform since there aren't enough guns to go around.
Taking out missile installations will pretty much end the war, without that and mortars, the North have nothing outside of invasion, and that I believe to be his Achilles heel.

Then there is the motivation of Husein, we know Libya needed to fall so the Muscum brotherhood could expand it's reach, so our Husein had a vested interest, NK on the other hand is an isolated issue, like a pimple on the ass of the planet, it is of no consequence unless we need to sit.

point is, we could completely ignore NK and this could be a non issue, but I believe Husein is purposefully pushing buttons to escalate this to keep our attention away from his failures here at home.

I don't believe a war with NK would put Husein in favorable light because there is that messy issue of follow up, clean  up, refugees, feeding them and the South doesn't want a flooding over the border either.
I believe Husein will milk this as long as possible, then, just like turning off a light, it will be yesterdays news and we'll all be pointed to the Great Egress as the great circus master used to say, we will be asked to look over here at another distraction..