He is putting Israel first, not America. So did Biden.
Now he is doing the bidding of neocon warmongers in Ukraine.
Most analysts I follow think that the US CIA knew of the plan to attack Russian nuclear bombers.
I have this on in background via Roku. He is ret Col. Wilkerson interviewed on Dialogue Works by Nima, an Iranian who lives in Brazil. Wilkerson has taught at some US universities and war colleges.
https://youtu.be/YwSoPhKassE
Col. Larry Wilkerson: Trump's Grip on Ukraine Conflict Is SLIPPING — What Happens Next?
Quote from: Solar on June 02, 2025, 03:15:58 PM:spit
We have talked about this for eight years now. Time sure does fly. Trump is not a conservative, he is a patriot, a problem solver, a businessman, and the best friend this great nation could ever have. He puts America first. Period! Not Israel, not Ukraine.
We have conservatives in congress. Trump has done more for this nation in five months than they have since time beginning. Trump is pushing peace and prosperity, have we ever had a president push for peace?
Trump has set a new bar for presidents, we don't kid ourselves, he does not have a friendly congress. Most of them would stab him in the back if they could. But Trump gets things done. In spite of them. In spite of the lsm. In spite of corrupt judges. Trump has only one group he can count on, the American people.
Trump is Trump. That is the only label I can put on him. Wouldn't have it any other way.
Really liked the video. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
Trump is very inconsistent and does not control various members of his team. They all say different things. I used to think it as part of some plan. He said he would pull out of Ukraine but has not. IMO he is fed different versions of reality by different people.
It looks like he may have known about the recent attacks deep inside Russia and the civilian attacks, although the Kiev faction has been attacking civilians since 2014.
Quote from: patentlymn on June 02, 2025, 06:55:55 PMTrump is very inconsistent and does not control various members of his team. They all say different things. I used to think it as part of some plan. He said he would pull out of Ukraine but has not. IMO he is fed different versions of reality by different people.
It looks like he may have known about the recent attacks deep inside Russia and the civilian attacks, although the Kiev faction has been attacking civilians since 2014.
From the beginning, when the Ukraine war had not fired the first shot, Trump came out against the war. He warned EU and Biden to stay out of it. Time after time when the war started, Trump warned not to send money which could not be accounted for. During the campaign Trump claimed he would end the war , he hasn't, but he is the only one trying to stop the blood shed.
Time after time he is the only one trying to get the sides together. He has been consistent in trying to stop the war. Just as Russia, Ukraine, and Europe have been consistent on keeping the war going.
Did Europe know beforehand about the attacks? I would say highly likely, they have backed Zelensky every step of the way. Trump has not. Trump has been openly critical, to the point of kicking him out of the White House, of Zelensky.
Under Obama, the US backed the 2014 coup in Ukraine. Later he said he would not send lethal id to Ukraine but did some. Trump recently bragged that in Trump 1, he sent javelins while obama sent bed sheets. While Trump was first president, the Ukraine army grew from 300K to 1.3M.
In a recent period Kiev launched 1,400 drones into Russia. Then Russia sent lots of drones into Ukraine. Trump called Putin "crazy" for this and never mentioned the context. IMO he is not being briefed properly.
Trump said everything you said he said. He and members of his admin also said things much different from that. Kellogg is a walking senile nightmare. Trump now owns this war when he could have walked away and left it Bidens war.
Quote from: patentlymn on June 03, 2025, 11:01:56 AMUnder Obama, the US backed the 2014 coup in Ukraine. Later he said he would not send lethal id to Ukraine but did some. Trump recently bragged that in Trump 1, he sent javelins while obama sent bed sheets. While Trump was first president, the Ukraine army grew from 300K to 1.3M.
In a recent period Kiev launched 1,400 drones into Russia. Then Russia sent lots of drones into Ukraine. Trump called Putin "crazy" for this and never mentioned the context. IMO he is not being briefed properly.
Trump said everything you said he said. He and members of his admin also said things much different from that. Kellogg is a walking senile nightmare. Trump now owns this war when he could have walked away and left it Bidens war.
How does Trump own the war when he is the only one fighting for peace. Letting the guilty ones off of taking blame for what they caused does not mean Trump is to blame. Russia, Ukraine, Biden, and the EU are to blame. Why are you letting them off the hook? Who besides Trump is trying to get this war to end? Russia? Ukraine? EU?
This war would not have taken place had Trump been in office. Biden was the bumbling idiot who forced Russias hand. Who kept sending billions with no accountability. Biden and EU supported a war that had no chance of being won. That is who needs to take their share of the blame.
Quote from: Possum on June 03, 2025, 11:57:57 AMHow does Trump own the war when he is the only one fighting for peace. Letting the guilty ones off of taking blame for what they caused does not mean Trump is to blame. Russia, Ukraine, Biden, and the EU are to blame. Why are you letting them off the hook? Who besides Trump is trying to get this war to end? Russia? Ukraine? EU?
This war would not have taken place had Trump been in office. Biden was the bumbling idiot who forced Russias hand. Who kept sending billions with no accountability. Biden and EU supported a war that had no chance of being won. That is who needs to take their share of the blame.
I am not defending Obama or Biden. There is still a chance for Trump to do the right thing. Biden / Harris would have doubled down on more war.
I care about what Trump has done on Ukraine. It looks like he knew about the recent strikes deep inside of Russia provided with US help and did nothing. He allows Kellogg to run round the world proposing the opposite of what Trump ran on. Kellogg's 22 point plan is stupid.
Some say that Trump thinks he can gain leverage over Putin in his 'deal' by inflicting damage on Russia. Trump can refuse to send any more aid or weapons or intelligence to Kiev and order all American soldiers out of Ukraine. I do not care what Trump is trying to do. I care about what he says and does.
Quote from: patentlymn on June 03, 2025, 01:17:40 PMI am not defending Obama or Biden. There is still a chance for Trump to do the right thing. Biden / Harris would have doubled down on more war.
I care about what Trump has done on Ukraine. It looks like he knew about the recent strikes deep inside of Russia provided with US help and did nothing. He allows Kellogg to run round the world proposing the opposite of what Trump ran on. Kellogg's 22 point plan is stupid.
Some say that Trump thinks he can gain leverage over Putin in his 'deal' by inflicting damage on Russia. Trump can refuse to send any more aid or weapons or intelligence to Kiev and order all American soldiers out of Ukraine. I do not care what Trump is trying to do. I care about what he says and does.
Trump is trying to negotiate peace. He is the only one trying to negotiate peace. That can not be argued. But as long as the rest of the players do not want peace, there will be none and they will be the ones to bear the consequences, not Trump.
Go back a couple of weeks ago, Trump got word Israel planed to bomb Iran's nuclear facilities. Trump put a stop to it. That alone tells me he would not allow someone whom he does not approve, in a war he did not approve, inflict more damage that he does not approve. He is trying to end the war, not prolong it or get us drawn into it. Right now, and until it can be proven otherwise, there is only one person responsible for the raid into Russia. It's not Trump.
By the way, you may not be defending Obama, Biden, the European nations, Russia, or Ukraine, but that is not the same as laying the blame at their feet, where it deserves to be.
Quote from: Possum on June 03, 2025, 01:45:52 PMTrump is trying to negotiate peace. He is the only one trying to negotiate peace. That can not be argued. But as long as the rest of the players do not want peace, there will be none and they will be the ones to bear the consequences, not Trump.
Go back a couple of weeks ago, Trump got word Israel planed to bomb Iran's nuclear facilities. Trump put a stop to it. That alone tells me he would not allow someone whom he does not approve, in a war he did not approve, inflict more damage that he does not approve. He is trying to end the war, not prolong it or get us drawn into it. Right now, and until it can be proven otherwise, there is only one person responsible for the raid into Russia. It's not Trump.
By the way, you may not be defending Obama, Biden, the European nations, Russia, or Ukraine, but that is not the same as laying the blame at their feet, where it deserves to be.
I do lay the blame on Clinton,. Obama, Biden and the Kiev govt. Trump cannot directly control the actions of other nations but he can directly control his own actions.
NATO and US are blood thirsty and expansionist. I look at Iraq, Libya, Syria. Obama signed an exec order to overthrow the govt of Syria. It took years for it to work. Now terrorists, Turkey and Israel are carving it up. There have been white papers for years on how to weaken and carve up Russia. Maybe 1 month ago the EU FM proposed carving up RU into 5 countries. An old idea. Many others. RU people can watch and read?
I don't blame Russia as they tried lots of diplomacy for years. Allowing a NATO country with that geography that close to Moscow would be courting disaster waiting for the next step of NATO/US. If RU had not launched the SMO what do you think would have happened?
I spent a lot of time trying to learn about the Ukraine conflict as it made no sense the way the MSM explained it.Too much time for many. The video referenced below is a short cut.
Scott Horton of antiwar.com has some good 1.5 to 2 hours lectures on the history leading up to the SMO. That is a short cut to lots of reading.
Quote from: patentlymn on June 03, 2025, 02:30:05 PMI do lay the blame on Clinton,. Obama, Biden and the Kiev govt. Trump cannot directly control the actions of other nations but he can directly control his own actions.
What actions are you referring to that Trump took? Ukraine was crooked, he called them out on it.
Quote from: patentlymn on June 03, 2025, 02:30:05 PMNATO and US are blood thirsty and expansionist.[/b] I look at Iraq, Libya, Syria. Obama signed an exec order to overthrow the govt of Syria. It took years for it to work. Now terrorists, Turkey and Israel are carving it up. There have been white papers for years on how to weaken and carve up Russia. Maybe 1 month ago the EU FM proposed carving up RU into 5 countries. An old idea. Many others. RU people can watch and read?
And the Soviet Union was not? CCP is not? Syria was nothing more than a hot bed for terrorist.
Quote from: patentlymn on June 03, 2025, 02:30:05 PMI don't blame Russia as they tried lots of diplomacy for years. Allowing a NATO country with that geography that close to Moscow would be courting disaster waiting for the next step of NATO/US. If RU had not launched the SMO what do you think would have happened?
Aain, it was Biden and European nations pushing for Ukraine to join NATO, not Trump. BY the way, those same people are pushing for the war to continue, not Trump.
Quote from: patentlymn on June 03, 2025, 02:30:05 PMI spent a lot of time trying to learn about the Ukraine conflict as it made no sense the way the MSM explained it.Too much time for many. The video referenced below is a short cut.
Ukraine was nothing more than a pawn that is being used by Bidens and his cronies. Had the government of Ukraine not been so corrupt, they probably would not find themselves in this position.
Quote from: patentlymn on June 03, 2025, 02:30:05 PMScott Horton of antiwar.com has some good 1.5 to 2 hours lectures on the history leading up to the SMO. That is a short cut to lots of reading.
Quote from: Possum on June 03, 2025, 03:13:38 PMWhat actions are you referring to that Trump took? Ukraine was crooked, he called them out on it.
And the Soviet Union was not? CCP is not? Syria was nothing more than a hot bed for terrorist.
...
I am waiting for Trump to say he is walking away from the Ukraine conflict and stop supporting the Kiev govt.
The Syria govt did support Hezbollah. . That is why Israel wanted the govt destroyed. The ISIS/AQ terrorists in Syria were supported by the US and maybe Qatar and others. The US sent arms from Benghazi. The people of Syria were expendable to US and Israel. Israel wants to be the last major power standing in the region. They want the US to attack Iran next to achieve that goal. I hope Trump does not do that.
Quote from: patentlymn on June 03, 2025, 03:29:41 PMI am waiting for Trump to say he is walking away from the Ukraine conflict and stop supporting the Kiev govt.
The Syria govt did support Hezbollah. . That is why Israel wanted the govt destroyed. The ISIS/AQ terrorists in Syria were supported by the US and maybe Qatar and others. The US sent arms from Benghazi. The people of Syria were expendable to US and Israel. Israel wants to be the last major power standing in the region. They want the US to attack Iran next to achieve that goal. I hope Trump does not do that.
What would happen if Trump walked away?
Quote from: Possum on June 03, 2025, 03:50:42 PMWhat would happen if Trump walked away?
The Kiev govt would be forced to capitulate to terms they do not like after they ran out of any EU money. Terms worse than the 2022 Istanbul terms and much worse than the previous Minsk agreements. The oblasts lost are those with people who mostly want to be part of Russia. I posted lots of maps of Ukraine showing the splits. Kiev would have to agree to not join NATO. The US would not agree or would agree then back out later.
The terms of Istanbul 2022 would have Kiev agree to not join NATO, allow some cultural autonomy, and the Russians would withdraw to pre SMO lines. The US wanted a war they 'knew' they would win.
The terms of Minsk would allow the Donbass to remain in Ukraine, allow some cultural autonomy, and not join NATO. The Kiev faction wanted war.
The Roman and Ottoman empires lasted because they mostly did not mess with religion, language, and culture. The Kiev govt is not that sane and messes with all three where they can.
Quote from: patentlymn on June 03, 2025, 11:01:56 AMUnder Obama, the US backed the 2014 coup in Ukraine. Later he said he would not send lethal id to Ukraine but did some. Trump recently bragged that in Trump 1, he sent javelins while obama sent bed sheets. While Trump was first president, the Ukraine army grew from 300K to 1.3M.
In a recent period Kiev launched 1,400 drones into Russia. Then Russia sent lots of drones into Ukraine. Trump called Putin "crazy" for this and never mentioned the context. IMO he is not being briefed properly.
Trump said everything you said he said. He and members of his admin also said things much different from that. Kellogg is a walking senile nightmare. Trump now owns this war when he could have walked away and left it Bidens war.
He still can, and would come out a hero regardless of his inaction. The fact that the CIA was in charge of the recent drone attacks on Russia's bomber force means Trump was either out of the loop, or Russia knew it was coming and didn't stop it for strategic reasons.
Right now, Trump is sitting pretty, just like he was before he was elected.
Quote from: Solar on June 03, 2025, 04:32:19 PMHe still can, and would come out a hero regardless of his inaction. The fact that the CIA was in charge of the recent drone attacks on Russia's bomber force means Trump was either out of the loop, or Russia knew it was coming and didn't stop it for strategic reasons.
Right now, Trump is sitting pretty, just like he was before he was elected.
BTW I voted from Trump all 3 times. The only time I went door to door was when Sarah Palin was running.
I fault Trump for so far not following through with campaign promises. I suspect he is being briefed by neocons based on what he says. If was not informed of the recent attacks inside Russia heads should roll. But that did not end well for JFK.
BTW I learned something in recent years. Not all people who ID as left or progressive are nuts especially on foreign affairs. One acid test is whether they fell for Russiagate. Many did not. Many did not have TDS either. Some like Jimmy Dore and Kim iversen had their eyes opened by the COVID hysteria and the vaxx.
Quote from: patentlymn on June 03, 2025, 04:45:53 PMBTW I voted from Trump all 3 times. The only time I went door to door was when Sarah Palin was running.
I fault Trump for so far not following through with campaign promises. I suspect he is being briefed by neocons based on what he says. If was not informed of the recent attacks inside Russia heads should roll. But that did not end well for JFK.
BTW I learned something in recent years. Not all people who ID as left or progressive are nuts especially on foreign affairs. One acid test is whether they fell for Russiagate. Many did not. Many did not have TDS either. Some like Jimmy Dore and Kim iversen had their eyes opened by the COVID hysteria and the vaxx.
What campaign promises did he break?
I never was a Trumper; I was certain he was still a Dim, but like everyone who gets elected, I gave him a chance, and he turned out to be far better than I hoped; however, despite his accomplishments, he's a moderate.
Like I said in the past, I'm glad he's a moderate, because of that, he is killing the Marxist DNC off for good.
One thing I did learn is that he is always at least three steps ahead of the opposition; he always has contingency plans and a masterful way of manipulating every situation.
As for Russia/Ukraine, I don't see a problem, I really don't, this isn't Trump's war, it's all European Union bull shit and Marxists on our side, people he's yet to ferret out of Govt, including Obama's Generals.
Quote from: Solar on June 04, 2025, 01:01:36 AMWhat campaign promises did he break?
I never was a Trumper; I was certain he was still a Dim, but like everyone who gets elected, I gave him a chance, and he turned out to be far better than I hoped; however, despite his accomplishments, he's a moderate.
Like I said in the past, I'm glad he's a moderate, because of that, he is killing the Marxist DNC off for good.
One thing I did learn is that he is always at least three steps ahead of the opposition; he always has contingency plans and a masterful way of manipulating every situation.
As for Russia/Ukraine, I don't see a problem, I really don't, this isn't Trump's war, it's all European Union bull shit and Marxists on our side, people he's yet to ferret out of Govt, including Obama's Generals.
The GOP debates before 2016 won me over to Trump. I was for Cruz before that. All of thee candidates wanted to establish a no fly zone over Syria. That would pit US against Russia. Russia was invited in and we were not. Russia helped the Syrian govt fight ISIS and AQ, both funded by US govt. Then came Trump "lf we get into WWIII it won't be over Syria. "
Then came a constitutional law question. Cruz knew 100x more than Trump but only Trump could communicate the answer.
Quote from: patentlymn on June 04, 2025, 12:34:58 PMThe GOP debates before 2016 won me over to Trump. I was for Cruz before that. All of thee candidates wanted to establish a no fly zone over Syria. That would pit US against Russia. Russia was invited in and we were not. Russia helped the Syrian govt fight ISIS and AQ, both funded by US govt. Then came Trump "lf we get into WWIII it won't be over Syria. "
Then came a constitutional law question. Cruz knew 100x more than Trump but only Trump could communicate the answer.
No doubt, Trump has that gift. :thumbsup: