How did we miss this? :sneaky:
A group of House Democrats introduced a resolution to amend the Constitution to abolish the Electoral College and institute a direct national popular vote for president and vice president.
"Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States to abolish the electoral college and to provide for the direct election of the President and Vice President of the United States," reads the text of House Joint Resolution 14.
The effort, led by Rep. Steve Cohen, a Democrat from Tennessee, claims that the "development of mass media and the internet has made information about Presidential candidates easily accessible to United States citizens across the country and around the world."
In a statement explaining the move, Cohen called the Electoral College an "archaic institution" that "has twice awarded the presidency to a candidate who did not win the popular vote" in the last 20 years.
"Americans expect and deserve the winner of the popular vote to win office," Cohen's statement continued. "More than a century ago, we amended our Constitution to provide for the direct election of U.S. Senators. It is past time to directly elect our President and Vice President."
Cohen also cited the siege of the U.S. Capitol last week, arguing that "efforts can be made to manipulate the Electoral College vote using falsehoods and shenanigans by ambitious politicians."
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/house-democrats-constitutional-amendment-electoral-college
Quote from: Solar on April 15, 2021, 06:38:51 PM
How did we miss this? :sneaky:
A group of House Democrats introduced a resolution to amend the Constitution to abolish the Electoral College and institute a direct national popular vote for president and vice president.
"Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States to abolish the electoral college and to provide for the direct election of the President and Vice President of the United States," reads the text of House Joint Resolution 14.
The effort, led by Rep. Steve Cohen, a Democrat from Tennessee, claims that the "development of mass media and the internet has made information about Presidential candidates easily accessible to United States citizens across the country and around the world."
In a statement explaining the move, Cohen called the Electoral College an "archaic institution" that "has twice awarded the presidency to a candidate who did not win the popular vote" in the last 20 years.
"Americans expect and deserve the winner of the popular vote to win office," Cohen's statement continued. "More than a century ago, we amended our Constitution to provide for the direct election of U.S. Senators. It is past time to directly elect our President and Vice President."
Cohen also cited the siege of the U.S. Capitol last week, arguing that "efforts can be made to manipulate the Electoral College vote using falsehoods and shenanigans by ambitious politicians."
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/house-democrats-constitutional-amendment-electoral-college
Gee i wonder how friggin far that'll get? First of all it takes a super majoritoy of both houses of congress plus ratification of a mojority of states. I don't fuckin think so!
Wow, the demoncrats aren't wasting any time changing the foundations of the country. This is essentially a declaration of war on non-Marxist Americans. :sneaky:
Quote from: Solar on April 15, 2021, 06:38:51 PM
How did we miss this? :sneaky:
A group of House Democrats introduced a resolution to amend the Constitution to abolish the Electoral College and institute a direct national popular vote for president and vice president.
"Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States to abolish the electoral college and to provide for the direct election of the President and Vice President of the United States," reads the text of House Joint Resolution 14.
The effort, led by Rep. Steve Cohen, a Democrat from Tennessee, claims that the "development of mass media and the internet has made information about Presidential candidates easily accessible to United States citizens across the country and around the world."
In a statement explaining the move, Cohen called the Electoral College an "archaic institution" that "has twice awarded the presidency to a candidate who did not win the popular vote" in the last 20 years.
"Americans expect and deserve the winner of the popular vote to win office," Cohen's statement continued. "More than a century ago, we amended our Constitution to provide for the direct election of U.S. Senators. It is past time to directly elect our President and Vice President."
Cohen also cited the siege of the U.S. Capitol last week, arguing that "efforts can be made to manipulate the Electoral College vote using falsehoods and shenanigans by ambitious politicians."
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/house-democrats-constitutional-amendment-electoral-college
I love nonsense like this from democrats. There is no way in hell this would be ratified by 2/3 of the states. It is nothing more than appeasement for their lemmings.
Quote from: supsalemgr on April 16, 2021, 05:52:21 AM
I love nonsense like this from democrats. There is no way in hell this would be ratified by 2/3 of the states. It is nothing more than appeasement for their lemmings.
Agree.
But what puzzles me by claiming this, they admit they can't win without cheating and changing the rules. Or are they really this clueless about our Constitutional Republic?
Boggles the mind...
Quote from: Solar on April 16, 2021, 06:12:57 AM
Agree.
But what puzzles me by claiming this, they admit they can't win without cheating and changing the rules. Or are they really this clueless about our Constitutional Republic?
Boggles the mind...
I think it would be far easier to cheat. I also think the democrats do not care who knows that. It's all about staying in power, then they can write their own history books.
Quote from: Solar on April 16, 2021, 06:12:57 AM
Agree.
But what puzzles me by claiming this, they admit they can't win without cheating and changing the rules. Or are they really this clueless about our Constitutional Republic?
Boggles the mind...
It just reminds us of how shallow their thinking is. It is the same as packing the Supreme Court. Pelosi knows it will cost the dems their majority in congress. Yet they have fools like Markey, Nadler and Hank Johnson (Guam will tip over) pushing this to their loony following.
And the tyranny continues
Quote from: supsalemgr on April 16, 2021, 06:22:20 AM
It just reminds us of how shallow their thinking is. It is the same as packing the Supreme Court. Pelosi knows it will cost the dems their majority in congress. Yet they have fools like Markey, Nadler and Hank Johnson (Guam will tip over) pushing this to their loony following.
Since the last election l've learned to never ever underestimate the stupidity of democrats or the American people in general. Neither seem to have a functioning brain the American public least of otherwise democrats would not exist today.
IMO...the democrats know they lost and lost bigly on Nov 2020. Now they are running scared knowing what lies ahead for them in the next election.
In this forum I have posted nearly a dozen times how all of this BS will cost the DIMS in '22 and '24. The clock is ticking on the LIBTARDED LEFT. States are in the process of, most importantly, cleaning up election laws while uncovering the 2020 fraud.
TICK TOCK. TICK TOCK.
Quote from: Bronx on April 16, 2021, 08:45:00 AM
IMO...the democrats know they lost and lost bigly on Nov 2020. Now they are running scared knowing what lies ahead for them in the next election.
Yep, too many actually think there is more libs voting than there really are, it's an illusion perpetrated by their CCP media.
When the truth is, no one voted for Bite me, and 2022 will prove it, as we run the Marxist RINO out of the party.
If not for fraud, there wouldn't even be a Dim party today.
they cheated to win the White House back with China's and Iran's assistance and now they are purposefully destroying the 2nd Amendment and the Electoral College. The DNC is the enemy of this country.
Quote from: Solar on April 16, 2021, 09:57:46 AM
Yep, too many actually think there is more libs voting than there really are, it's an illusion perpetrated by their CCP media.
When the truth is, no one voted for Bite me, and 2022 will prove it, as we run the Marxist RINO out of the party.
If not for fraud, there wouldn't even be a Dim party today.
Like I stated in another post 9 out of 4 Biden voters regret their decision........ :lol: :lol: :lol:
Quote from: dickfoster on April 16, 2021, 08:06:54 AM
Since the last election l've learned to never ever underestimate the stupidity of democrats or the American people in general. Neither seem to have a functioning brain the American public least of otherwise democrats would not exist today.
Excellent point! For something as un-American and evil as the democratic party to even exist there needs to be millions of abject morons to empower it! :lol: :thumbsup:
I pray everyday that Joe Manchin keeps his word about not ending the Fillibuster. He's now has more power in his hands than anyone in this country.
Quote from: Solar on April 15, 2021, 06:38:51 PM
How did we miss this? :sneaky:
A group of House Democrats introduced a resolution to amend the Constitution to abolish the Electoral College and institute a direct national popular vote for president and vice president.
"Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States to abolish the electoral college and to provide for the direct election of the President and Vice President of the United States," reads the text of House Joint Resolution 14.
The effort, led by Rep. Steve Cohen, a Democrat from Tennessee, claims that the "development of mass media and the internet has made information about Presidential candidates easily accessible to United States citizens across the country and around the world."
In a statement explaining the move, Cohen called the Electoral College an "archaic institution" that "has twice awarded the presidency to a candidate who did not win the popular vote" in the last 20 years.
"Americans expect and deserve the winner of the popular vote to win office," Cohen's statement continued. "More than a century ago, we amended our Constitution to provide for the direct election of U.S. Senators. It is past time to directly elect our President and Vice President."
Cohen also cited the siege of the U.S. Capitol last week, arguing that "efforts can be made to manipulate the Electoral College vote using falsehoods and shenanigans by ambitious politicians."
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/house-democrats-constitutional-amendment-electoral-college
Popular vote seems like the correct way to go, especially when you consider a) the President isn't really that important and b) literally every other government position, at all levels, is done with popular vote.
Quote from: p1tchblack on April 16, 2021, 12:58:16 PM
Popular vote seems like the correct way to go, especially when you consider a) the President isn't really that important and b) literally every other government position, at all levels, is done with popular vote.
Oh really? Popular vote is pure democracy which is a short baby step from socalism which has never worked in all of recorded history. Not anytime it has been tried. Greece had a demoracy but where tgd hell are tgey today? Our founders knew what would work and wo7kd stand the test of time. As they say, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. What we have has worked for over two hundred years so maybe we should leave it the fucjk alone and concentrate on what is broke and get rid of the fucking politicians and political party bullshit.
Quote from: p1tchblack on April 16, 2021, 12:58:16 PM
Popular vote seems like the correct way to go, especially when you consider a) the President isn't really that important and b) literally every other government position, at all levels, is done with popular vote.
Do you even remotely grasp what these Marxists are planning? Do you even have a clue why our Founders insisted that we have the Electoral College?
To keep large cities from stealing from the agrarian States/Counties. So everyone has a voice, it is literally the heart of our Republican form of Govt, where we elect Representatives to speak for us, and yes, that would be next.
In other words, NY and Ca would have the control over the rest of the nation.
Quote from: Solar on April 16, 2021, 01:19:53 PM
Do you even remotely grasp what these Marxists are planning? Do you even have a clue why our Founders insisted that we have the Electoral College?
To keep large cities from stealing from the agrarian States/Counties. So everyone has a voice, it is literally the heart of our Republican form of Govt, where we elect Representatives to speak for us, and yes, that would be next.
In other words, NY and Ca would have the control over the rest of the nation.
Well, the primary reason for have the electoral college was to prevent a con man-type from being elected. Of course, that was in time when it took a month or more to send mail from one coast to another. I don't think there's any lack of information on any candidate that would allow a truly dangerous, con man, Hitler type to be elected.
I don't know what you think the president has the power to do, but anything of true substance comes from Congress, which is why I said the President is pretty unimportant.
Quote from: p1tchblack on April 16, 2021, 01:26:27 PM
Well, the primary reason for have the electoral college was to prevent a con man-type from being elected. Of course, that was in time when it took a month or more to send mail from one coast to another. I don't think there's any lack of information on any candidate that would allow a truly dangerous, con man, Hitler type to be elected.
I don't know what you think the president has the power to do, but anything of true substance comes from Congress, which is why I said the President is pretty unimportant.
Oh Jeeez, read the damn Constitution! The reason for the Electoral College is to prevent the majority from stifling the voice of smaller States.
Look it up for Christs sake!
Quote from: Surfguy74 on April 16, 2021, 12:55:18 PM
I pray everyday that Joe Manchin keeps his word about not ending the Fillibuster. He's now has more power in his hands than anyone in this country.
..and Manchin *knows* it - so he, like all politicians have a *price* point for voting against his constituency. We don't need to guess what it'll be, only that Chuck Schumer already knows what it'll take to flip him.
Quote from: Solar on April 16, 2021, 01:29:00 PM
Oh Jeeez, read the damn Constitution! The reason for the Electoral College is to prevent the majority from stifling the voice of smaller States.
Look it up for Christs sake!
To my knowledge, the Constitution provides instructions for the electoral college, but says nothing about why it exists. The primary reason, from what I've read, is to prevent an unsavory person from winning the presidency.
If you have an excerpt from the Constitution, the provides the "why", I'd like to read it.
But, again, the President isn't really important. All he can do is sign/not sign bills that reach his desk from Congress, and the Senate give all states equal representation regardless of population.
The EC results in a person's vote in Wyoming counting twice that of a person in California. I'd prefer to see one vote count as one vote, regardless of where you live.
Quote from: p1tchblack on April 16, 2021, 01:26:27 PM
Well, the primary reason for have the electoral college was to prevent a con man-type from being elected. Of course, that was in time when it took a month or more to send mail from one coast to another. I don't think there's any lack of information on any candidate that would allow a truly dangerous, con man, Hitler type to be elected.
I don't know what you think the president has the power to do, but anything of true substance comes from Congress, which is why I said the President is pretty unimportant.
You have absolutely NO fucking idea of the whys and wherefors of the constitution nor of what it says apparently. Did you come up with that crap on your own or did some other ignoramus feed it to you?
Quote from: dickfoster on April 16, 2021, 03:02:12 PM
You have absolutely NO fucking idea of the whys and wherefors of the constitution nor of what it says apparently. Did you come up with that crap on your own or did some other ignoramus feed it to you?
The Electoral College was created for two reasons. The first purpose was to create a buffer between the population and the selection of a President. The second as part of the structure of the government that gave extra power to the smaller states.
The first reason that the founders created the Electoral College is hard to understand today. The founding fathers were afraid of direct election to the Presidency. They feared a tyrant could manipulate public opinion and come to power. Hamilton wrote in the Federalist Papers:
It was equally desirable, that the immediate election should be made by men most capable of analyzing the qualities adapted to the station, and acting under circumstances favorable to deliberation, and to a judicious combination of all the reasons and inducements which were proper to govern their choice. A small number of persons, selected by their fellow-citizens from the general mass, will be most likely to possess the information and discernment requisite to such complicated investigations. It was also peculiarly desirable to afford as little opportunity as possible to tumult and disorder. This evil was not least to be dreaded in the election of a magistrate, who was to have so important an agency in the administration of the government as the President of the United States. But the precautions which have been so happily concerted in the system under consideration, promise an effectual security against this mischief.Hamilton and the other founders believed that the electors would be able to ensure that only a qualified person becomes President. They thought that with the Electoral College no one would be able to manipulate the citizenry. It would act as a check on an electorate that might be duped. Hamilton and the other founders did not trust the population to make the right choice. The founders also believed that the Electoral College had the advantage of being a group that met only once and thus could not be manipulated over time by foreign governments or others.
https://www.historycentral.com/elections/Electoralcollgewhy.html
Quote from: Solar on April 16, 2021, 01:19:53 PM
Do you even remotely grasp what these Marxists are planning? Do you even have a clue why our Founders insisted that we have the Electoral College?
To keep large cities from stealing from the agrarian States/Counties. So everyone has a voice, it is literally the heart of our Republican form of Govt, where we elect Representatives to speak for us, and yes, that would be next.
In other words, NY and Ca would have the control over the rest of the nation.
New York and Commiefornia being Democrat ran, lead and controlled. This is what the Democrats want and it's the reason that they were willing to exploit the corona virus, defraud the election and thumb their nose at America.
there is no way any conservative could support abolishing the Electoral College. It is one of the most important pieces of the Constitution. It ensures that every area of our nation is duly represented and has some importance, otherwise the most densely populated areas of the country such as NYC and the Bay Area would be all one would need to win the Presidency. Think about the ramifications of that.
Quote from: p1tchblack on April 16, 2021, 01:26:27 PM
Well, the primary reason for have the electoral college was to prevent a con man-type from being elected. Of course, that was in time when it took a month or more to send mail from one coast to another. I don't think there's any lack of information on any candidate that would allow a truly dangerous, con man, Hitler type to be elected.
I don't know what you think the president has the power to do, but anything of true substance comes from Congress, which is why I said the President is pretty unimportant.
The EC does 4 things,
1)Defends states rights against the federal government
2)Defends smalls states against big states
3)Defends the minority from the majority
4)Defends country-folk from the city-folk
All three of these are still very real legitimate concerns today, especially the last one. Thats why it is absolutely still needed and always will be.
Quote from: p1tchblack on April 16, 2021, 01:41:29 PM
To my knowledge, the Constitution provides instructions for the electoral college, but says nothing about why it exists. The primary reason, from what I've read, is to prevent an unsavory person from winning the presidency.
If you have an excerpt from the Constitution, the provides the "why", I'd like to read it.
But, again, the President isn't really important. All he can do is sign/not sign bills that reach his desk from Congress, and the Senate give all states equal representation regardless of population.
The EC results in a person's vote in Wyoming counting twice that of a person in California. I'd prefer to see one vote count as one vote, regardless of where you live.
My bad, you're Right, I'm having a nasty allergy season, and today is going to be even worse I can tell already.
Quote from: T Hunt on April 17, 2021, 04:12:03 AM
The EC does 4 things,
1)Defends states rights against the federal government
2)Defends smalls states against big states
3)Defends the minority from the majority
4)Defends country-folk from the city-folk
All three of these are still very real legitimate concerns today, especially the last one. Thats why it is absolutely still needed and always will be.
The simple reason it is in the Constitution is the founders desired for every state to be relevant in presidential elections. I would like to know where Pitch resides.
Quote from: p1tchblack on April 16, 2021, 12:58:16 PM
Popular vote seems like the correct way to go, especially when you consider a) the President isn't really that important and b) literally every other government position, at all levels, is done with popular vote.
the president is chosen in a way by popular vote, just not nation popular vote. He has to win each state's popular vote to win that state. As for the states where the popular winner doesn't get all the electoral votes. He has to win the popular vote of the areas each vote counts for. It is so the whole country decides not just one area. No area should have more influence than another. For example: New York doesn't know what is best for Texas or vice versa.
Trump won in an epic landslide....democrats know this...democrats know we know this....democrats are terrified at what's coming and will only go more nazi as the end nears....
Quote from: Owebo on April 20, 2021, 01:48:33 AM
Trump won in an epic landslide....democrats know this...democrats know we know this....democrats are terrified at what's coming and will only go more nazi as the end nears....
Yep, they actually think the NG are going to guard them with their lives. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
They're in for a huge shock...
Quote from: Owebo on April 20, 2021, 01:48:33 AM
Trump won in an epic landslide....democrats know this...democrats know we know this....democrats are terrified at what's coming and will only go more nazi as the end nears....
There is no question in my mind but, that President Trump handily won reelection. There is no question in my mind that the election was stolen as planned by the DNC. I wouldn't even be surprised if the whole Wuhan virus was bought, paid for and planned by the DNC. What I'm a little fuzzy about is when this so-called "what is coming" is actually going to happen. I've been hearing for months now that retribution is coming but, somehow it never comes. Now I hear so-called "conservatives" talking about the 2024 Presidential election. I fully expect that my vote will be nullified once again with "retribution coming"...
Quote from: RV on April 20, 2021, 06:05:45 AM
There is no question in my mind but, that President Trump handily won reelection. There is no question in my mind that the election was stolen as planned by the DNC. I wouldn't even be surprised if the whole Wuhan virus was bought, paid for and planned by the DNC. What I'm a little fuzzy about is when this so-called "what is coming" is actually going to happen. I've been hearing for months now that retribution is coming but, somehow it never comes. Now I hear so-called "conservatives" talking about the 2024 Presidential election. I fully expect that my vote will be nullified once again with "retribution coming"...
Oh yes, theuniparty, anointed on January 6, 2021, will select all the winners from now on, not us voters....
The end I am referring to is the end of the republic....it's now unavoidable...
Quote from: RV on April 20, 2021, 06:05:45 AM
There is no question in my mind but, that President Trump handily won reelection. There is no question in my mind that the election was stolen as planned by the DNC. I wouldn't even be surprised if the whole Wuhan virus was bought, paid for and planned by the DNC. What I'm a little fuzzy about is when this so-called "what is coming" is actually going to happen. I've been hearing for months now that retribution is coming but, somehow it never comes. Now I hear so-called "conservatives" talking about the 2024 Presidential election. I fully expect that my vote will be nullified once again with "retribution coming"...
I can not help but feel the courts have failed to do their job. What we knew was coming should have been.
Quote from: Possum on April 20, 2021, 06:19:39 AM
I can not help but feel the courts have failed to do their job. What we knew was coming should have been.
Oh, I feel we're way past the courts "failing to do their job". The courts are complicit and in the hip pocket of the Democrats. It could be said that the courts are on the Democrat payroll just as the News Media is.
Quote from: Drifter on April 19, 2021, 08:41:15 PM
the president is chosen in a way by popular vote, just not nation popular vote. He has to win each state's popular vote to win that state. As for the states where the popular winner doesn't get all the electoral votes. He has to win the popular vote of the areas each vote counts for. It is so the whole country decides not just one area. No area should have more influence than another. For example: New York doesn't know what is best for Texas or vice versa.
I look at the people voting for President in the same way I look at a state voting for Governor. When you vote for governor, it's expected that the most votes will come from the biggest cities and, while the governor governs the state, each city (or state for Pres) still does their own thing.
I've never understood all the hype around the Presidential election. Congress is so much more important.
Quote from: p1tchblack on April 20, 2021, 07:24:56 AM
I look at the people voting for President in the same way I look at a state voting for Governor. When you vote for governor, it's expected that the most votes will come from the biggest cities and, while the governor governs the state, each city (or state for Pres) still does their own thing.
I've never understood all the hype around the Presidential election. Congress is so much more important.
Do you know what a republic is? We are not a democracy.
Right.... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
If they can't pack the SCOTUS and figure out a way to convince 3/4 of the states to ratify it, it'll go nowhere.
What are these idiots gonna try next, picking the Governors & Representatives for each state - like Rome?
(not laughing.... we seem to be headed back in that direction.... Hail Caesar! or is it, Long live the King!
Quote from: supsalemgr on April 16, 2021, 05:52:21 AM
I love nonsense like this from democrats. There is no way in hell this would be ratified by 2/3 of the states. It is nothing more than appeasement for their lemmings.
Remember: The Democrats won the election fair and square, but they also desparately need to change the rules.
Quote from: Possum on April 20, 2021, 01:33:14 PM
Do you know what a republic is? We are not a democracy.
We are a representative democracy. That doesn't prohibit selecting a president by popular vote.
Quote from: p1tchblack on April 20, 2021, 02:53:03 PM
We are a representative democracy. That doesn't prohibit selecting a president by popular vote.
Wrong. We are a republic.
Quote from: p1tchblack on April 20, 2021, 02:53:03 PM
We are a representative democracy. That doesn't prohibit selecting a president by popular vote.
Wrong we are a constitutional republic, shitforbrains. You should maybe try reading the constitution sometime. Well if you can read that is.
Quote from: ammodotcom on April 20, 2021, 02:25:57 PM
Remember: The Democrats won the election fair and square, but they also desparately need to change the rules.
Really? "Fair and square"? Democrats don't know and don't care about law, "fair & square" or doing anything Constitutionally. Democrats can chant "fair & square" till their face turns blue, it changes nothing and does NOT make the election fair and square. As I said before, my vote was negated by the fraud in 2020 and I fully expect that it will be negated by fraud in 2024.
Quote from: ammodotcom on April 20, 2021, 02:25:57 PM
Remember: The Democrats won the election fair and square, but they also desparately need to change the rules.
Was that sarcasm? :confused:
Quote from: dickfoster on April 20, 2021, 03:12:22 PM
Wrong we are a constitutional republic, shitforbrains. You should maybe try reading the constitution sometime. Well if you can read that is.
I've always said, "Representative Republic" - I like that as an addition, to clarify, "
We are a Representative, Constitutional Republic" or a "
Constitutional, Representative Republic". Leaving out "Constitutional" was really leaving out the foundation or our Republic. I like how that communicates the facts or our foundation - democracy is for MOB rule, anti-minority - Blacks out to LOATHE the word "democracy."
Quote from: dickfoster on April 20, 2021, 03:12:22 PM
Wrong we are a constitutional republic, shitforbrains. You should maybe try reading the constitution sometime. Well if you can read that is.
I can read enough to know that shit for brains isn't one word.
Even if we are a RR, that doesn't prohibit us from electing a president by popular vote, but your hyper-emotional reaction is noted.
Quote from: p1tchblack on April 20, 2021, 02:53:03 PM
We are a representative democracy. That doesn't prohibit selecting a president by popular vote.
Wow..the stupid....impressive....
Quote from: p1tchblack on April 20, 2021, 06:34:01 PM
I can read enough to know that shit for brains isn't one word.
Even if we are a RR, that doesn't prohibit us from electing a president by popular vote, but your hyper-emotional reaction is noted.
The constitution does.
Quote from: Possum on April 21, 2021, 03:14:15 AM
The constitution does.
Yes, but as I said much earlier, the reasons for doing that aren't relevant today.
Quote from: p1tchblack on April 21, 2021, 06:05:08 AM
Yes, but as I said much earlier, the reasons for doing that aren't relevant today.
Only your opinion. Now all you have to do is convince 2/3rds of the states that you are right. Good luck.
Quote from: Possum on April 21, 2021, 06:09:42 AM
Only your opinion. Now all you have to do is convince 2/3rds of the states that you are right. Good luck.
I have no plans to try to convince any states, I simply stated that the primary intent of the EC, given the availability of information on candidates, is no longer valid and I would prefer each person's vote count as one vote. That isn't the case now:
That means that in the electoral college, each individual Wyoming vote weighs 3.6 times more than an individual Californian's vote. That's the most extreme example, but if you average the 10 most populous states and compare the power of their residents' votes to those of the 10 least populous states, you get a ratio of 1 to 2.5.https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2016/11/17/the-electoral-college-badly-distorts-the-vote-and-its-going-to-get-worse/
Quote from: p1tchblack on April 21, 2021, 06:44:51 AM
I have no plans to try to convince any states, I simply stated that the primary intent of the EC, given the availability of information on candidates, is no longer valid and I would prefer each person's vote count as one vote. That isn't the case now:
That means that in the electoral college, each individual Wyoming vote weighs 3.6 times more than an individual Californian's vote. That's the most extreme example, but if you average the 10 most populous states and compare the power of their residents' votes to those of the 10 least populous states, you get a ratio of 1 to 2.5.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2016/11/17/the-electoral-college-badly-distorts-the-vote-and-its-going-to-get-worse/
Are you starting to understand why we call us a republic? The states, thru the electoral votes, elect the president not the people. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
Quote from: p1tchblack on April 21, 2021, 06:44:51 AM
I have no plans to try to convince any states, I simply stated that the primary intent of the EC, given the availability of information on candidates, is no longer valid and I would prefer each person's vote count as one vote. That isn't the case now:
That means that in the electoral college, each individual Wyoming vote weighs 3.6 times more than an individual Californian's vote. That's the most extreme example, but if you average the 10 most populous states and compare the power of their residents' votes to those of the 10 least populous states, you get a ratio of 1 to 2.5.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2016/11/17/the-electoral-college-badly-distorts-the-vote-and-its-going-to-get-worse/
considering the massive stupidity that infects California I certainly would like the people in Wyoming have a greater say.
As a liberal you naturally want to push your agenda and will use any means at all.
To you liberals the ends justify any means.
The Founding Fathers rightfully feared the mob. Remember this came right as the French Revolution hit.
Now you liberals are forming the mob; only it will be YOU that gets eaten.
Quote from: winterset on April 21, 2021, 07:08:09 AM
considering the massive stupidity that infects California I certainly would like the people in Wyoming have a greater say.
As a liberal you naturally want to push your agenda and will use any means at all.
To you liberals the ends justify any means.
The Founding Fathers rightfully feared the mob. Remember this came right as the French Revolution hit.
Now you liberals are forming the mob; only it will be YOU that gets eaten.
Sounds like you're the one trying to push a political agenda. I'm simply stating that the reason for the EC is no longer valid and I want each vote to count as one vote.
The hype over who's elected president doesn't change the fact that it's congress that's truly important.
Prior to Obama being elected, the right media was trying to sell us on the fact that the country would be ruined if he was elected. Prior to Trump being elected, the left media tried to convince us that the country would be ruined. It's all rhetoric and hyperbole because the President can only do so much, thanks to the separation of power.
BTW, all of the hype about the EC and it's only mattered 5 times since 1824.
Quote from: p1tchblack on April 21, 2021, 06:44:51 AM
I have no plans to try to convince any states, I simply stated that the primary intent of the EC, given the availability of information on candidates, is no longer valid and I would prefer each person's vote count as one vote. That isn't the case now:
That means that in the electoral college, each individual Wyoming vote weighs 3.6 times more than an individual Californian's vote. That's the most extreme example, but if you average the 10 most populous states and compare the power of their residents' votes to those of the 10 least populous states, you get a ratio of 1 to 2.5.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2016/11/17/the-electoral-college-badly-distorts-the-vote-and-its-going-to-get-worse/
"I would prefer each person's vote count as one vote."
Each person's vote does count as one vote. Our Constitution plainly outlines how the votes count by state. Get over it and quit whining.
Quote from: winterset on April 21, 2021, 07:08:09 AM
considering the massive stupidity that infects California I certainly would like the people in Wyoming have a greater say.
As a liberal you naturally want to push your agenda and will use any means at all.
To you liberals the ends justify any means.
The Founding Fathers rightfully feared the mob. Remember this came right as the French Revolution hit.
Now you liberals are forming the mob; only it will be YOU that gets eaten.
I hope so however, my fear is that America has been "sissified" by the Democrats. Now instead of facts and truth, "feelings" are more important. Everyone wins or no one wins. Everyone is "equal" but, some are MORE "equal". Everyone counts but, some count MORE. Democrats feel that the Constitution is no longer valid and are not willing to fight for Constitutionality anymore. Democrats are convinced that the Constitution is a "living" document and is to be changed at their whim. As we saw with the presidential election and the Wuhan virus, no one was willing to stand up for facts nor truth. Instead we have businesses closed down, schools closed down and bogus statistics that are not only lies but, that merely support the Democrats view rather than facts, truth or reality.
Quote from: p1tchblack on April 16, 2021, 01:26:27 PM
Well, the primary reason for have the electoral college was to prevent a con man-type from being elected. Of course, that was in time when it took a month or more to send mail from one coast to another. I don't think there's any lack of information on any candidate that would allow a truly dangerous, con man, Hitler type to be elected.
I don't know what you think the president has the power to do, but anything of true substance comes from Congress, which is why I said the President is pretty unimportant.
Serious question, are you Libtarded? You have failed to make the case that the president is unimportant. Try again.
Dont forget, a conman just got elected and conmen have been getting elected for decades now. Look at all the damage these conmen like bush and obama did.
Quote from: p1tchblack on April 20, 2021, 07:24:56 AM
I look at the people voting for President in the same way I look at a state voting for Governor. When you vote for governor, it's expected that the most votes will come from the biggest cities and, while the governor governs the state, each city (or state for Pres) still does their own thing.
I've never understood all the hype around the Presidential election. Congress is so much more important.
No it really isnt more important, and thanks for pointing out one of the problems we need to fix at the state level.
Quote from: p1tchblack on April 20, 2021, 02:53:03 PM
We are a representative democracy. That doesn't prohibit selecting a president by popular vote.
Yes it does.
Quote from: p1tchblack on April 20, 2021, 06:34:01 PM
I can read enough to know that shit for brains isn't one word.
Even if we are a RR, that doesn't prohibit us from electing a president by popular vote, but your hyper-emotional reaction is noted.
Yes it does. And your emotional response to our legitimate attacks on your position is noted...
Quote from: p1tchblack on April 21, 2021, 06:05:08 AM
Yes, but as I said much earlier, the reasons for doing that aren't relevant today.
Yes they absolutely are because human nature NEVER changes. The constitution will be relevant for all time.
Quote from: p1tchblack on April 21, 2021, 06:44:51 AM
I have no plans to try to convince any states, I simply stated that the primary intent of the EC, given the availability of information on candidates, is no longer valid and I would prefer each person's vote count as one vote. That isn't the case now:
That means that in the electoral college, each individual Wyoming vote weighs 3.6 times more than an individual Californian's vote. That's the most extreme example, but if you average the 10 most populous states and compare the power of their residents' votes to those of the 10 least populous states, you get a ratio of 1 to 2.5.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2016/11/17/the-electoral-college-badly-distorts-the-vote-and-its-going-to-get-worse/
Yes you are libtarded arent you. So you want the dems to have power? Look at how they claim, without evidence, that trump lost the popular vote in 2016. In your way of doing things hildog wld be president now. See one person one vote is ignorant and naive. Mob rule is always morally bad.
Quote from: p1tchblack on April 20, 2021, 06:34:01 PM
I can read enough to know that shit for brains isn't one word.
Even if we are a RR, that doesn't prohibit us from electing a president by popular vote, but your hyper-emotional reaction is noted.
"Popular vote"? Is that liberal-speak for fraud?
Quote from: p1tchblack on April 21, 2021, 07:26:55 AM
Sounds like you're the one trying to push a political agenda. I'm simply stating that the reason for the EC is no longer valid and I want each vote to count as one vote.
No you are clearly trying to push an agenda while acting like you are sincere. It obvious to all of us.
QuoteThe hype over who's elected president doesn't change the fact that it's congress that's truly important.
They both are, thats called balance of power, the way the founders, who were much smarter than us, designed it.
You have failed to make the case that the president is unimportant.
QuotePrior to Obama being elected, the right media was trying to sell us on the fact that the country would be ruined if he was elected. Prior to Trump being elected, the left media tried to convince us that the country would be ruined.
Stop acting like there is right wing media and left wing media and both use propaganda. That is a lie of the left which you are making clear you are a leftist since you keep parroting their ideas and philosophies. Only the left has EVER used propaganda lies to 'push a narrative'. The only agenda the right has EVER had was truth and reality, while the left want only power to destroy goodness.
Dont forget, Obama did ruin the country.
Quote
It's all rhetoric and hyperbole because the President can only do so much, thanks to the separation of power.
No its not hyperbole, just look at all the massive damage obama did. We were a much worse country after him but trump fixed alot of it.
QuoteBTW, all of the hype about the EC and it's only mattered 5 times since 1824.
Thats a lie. Nice try tho.
Quote from: T Hunt on April 21, 2021, 08:49:36 AM
No you are clearly trying to push an agenda while acting like you are sincere. It obvious to all of us.
The only thing obvious is that you're dishonestly claiming to know something to be true when you don't
Quote
They both are, thats called balance of power, the way the founders, who were much smarter than us, designed it.
All legislation come from Congress. The President has the power to use EO's for somethings, but even horrible things like Obamacare originated in Congress. The President just signs the bill.
Quote
You have failed to make the case that the president is unimportant.
I don't believe I said the President is unimportant; it's just not worth all the hype
Stop acting like there is right wing media and left wing media and both use propaganda. That is a lie of the left which you are making clear you are a leftist since you keep parroting their ideas and philosophies. Only the left has EVER used propaganda lies to 'push a narrative'. The only agenda the right has EVER had was truth and reality, while the left want only power to destroy goodness.
Quote
Thats a lie. Nice try tho.
Here are the 5 Presidents that won the EC but not Popular vote:
Donald Trump
George W. Bush
Benjamin Harrison
Rutherford B. Hayes
John Q. Adams
Quote from: p1tchblack on April 21, 2021, 06:44:51 AM
I have no plans to try to convince any states, I simply stated that the primary intent of the EC, given the availability of information on candidates, is no longer valid and I would prefer each person's vote count as one vote. That isn't the case now:
That means that in the electoral college, each individual Wyoming vote weighs 3.6 times more than an individual Californian's vote. That's the most extreme example, but if you average the 10 most populous states and compare the power of their residents' votes to those of the 10 least populous states, you get a ratio of 1 to 2.5.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2016/11/17/the-electoral-college-badly-distorts-the-vote-and-its-going-to-get-worse/
Yes, all the LWNJs want mob rule....
Quote from: p1tchblack on April 21, 2021, 09:10:00 AM
The only thing obvious is that you're dishonestly claiming to know something to be true when you don't
No the right never makes claims like that, we are only interested in truth and reality.
QuoteAll legislation come from Congress. The President has the power to use EO's for somethings, but even horrible things like Obamacare originated in Congress. The President just signs the bill.
So you are admitting that you dont fully understand the powers of the presidency? Or that the founders designed it to be an equally powerful branch?
QuoteI don't believe I said the President is unimportant; it's just not worth all the hype
Thats actually exactly what you said, 'unimportant'. Go back and look cuz im not gonna link.
QuoteStop acting like there is right wing media and left wing media and both use propaganda. That is a lie of the left which you are making clear you are a leftist since you keep parroting their ideas and philosophies. Only the left has EVER used propaganda lies to 'push a narrative'. The only agenda the right has EVER had was truth and reality, while the left want only power to destroy goodness.
Thats actually a quote from me which I guess you are just not gonna respond too...
QuoteHere are the 5 Presidents that won the EC but not Popular vote:
Donald Trump
George W. Bush
Benjamin Harrison
Rutherford B. Hayes
John Q. Adams
And? My point still stands, those are not the only times the EC made a difference. You seem to not at all understand what the EC does...
Quote from: Owebo on April 21, 2021, 09:13:49 AM
Yes, all the LWNJs want mob rule....
Electing the President by Popular Vote wouldn't create mob rule because we have the Senate where all states, regardless of population, are given equal power.
Again, the President only signs what gets to his desk. He can't make laws appear out of air.
Quote from: p1tchblack on April 21, 2021, 09:10:00 AM
The only thing obvious is that you're dishonestly claiming to know something to be true when you don't
All legislation come from Congress. The President has the power to use EO's for somethings, but even horrible things like Obamacare originated in Congress. The President just signs the bill.
I don't believe I said the President is unimportant; it's just not worth all the hype
Stop acting like there is right wing media and left wing media and both use propaganda. That is a lie of the left which you are making clear you are a leftist since you keep parroting their ideas and philosophies. Only the left has EVER used propaganda lies to 'push a narrative'. The only agenda the right has EVER had was truth and reality, while the left want only power to destroy goodness.
Here are the 5 Presidents that won the EC but not Popular vote:
Donald Trump
George W. Bush
Benjamin Harrison
Rutherford B. Hayes
John Q. Adams
Which proves nothing. All five of those were elected the way the constitution dictates.
Quote from: p1tchblack on April 21, 2021, 09:22:48 AM
Electing the President by Popular Vote wouldn't create mob rule because we have the Senate where all states, regardless of population, are given equal power.
LOL thats still mob rule. You dont seem to understand what that is or the ECs purpose at all.
As I said before...
The EC does 4 things,
1)Defends states rights against the federal government
2)Defends smalls states against big states
3)Defends the minority from the majority
4)Defends country-folk from the city-folk
How would electing the president by popular vote achieve any of these?
QuoteAgain, the President only signs what gets to his desk. He can't make laws appear out of air.
Again, you vastly underestimate the power of the presidency, which the founders designed to have EQUAL power to the other branches.
Quote from: T Hunt on April 21, 2021, 09:21:01 AM
No the right never makes claims like that, we are only interested in truth and reality.
If you're interested in "truth", then I'm sure you have evidence to support what you claim to be true:
"No you are clearly trying to push an agenda while acting like you are sincere. It obvious to all of us."
Quote
So you are admitting that you dont fully understand the powers of the presidency? Or that the founders designed it to be an equally powerful branch?
I admit nothing and you've given me no reason to doubt what I think.
Quote
Thats actually exactly what you said, 'unimportant'. Go back and look cuz im not gonna link.
This is what I said: "the President isn't really that important".
Quote
Thats actually a quote from me which I guess you are just not gonna respond too...
Correct. There's just too much hyperbole, rhetoric and dishonesty to address.
Quote
And? My point still stands, those are not the only times the EC made a difference. You seem to not at all understand what the EC does...
We're talking about popular vote vs EC as it relates to selecting a President. There have been 5 times when the EC vs PV hasn't matched and three of those were in the 1800's.
Quote from: Possum on April 21, 2021, 09:22:55 AM
Which proves nothing. All five of those were elected the way the constitution dictates.
Exactly!
Quote from: p1tchblack on April 21, 2021, 09:35:52 AM
We're talking about popular vote vs EC as it relates to selecting a President. There have been 5 times when the EC vs PV hasn't matched and three of those were in the 1800's.
So what? They were elected exactly the way the framers of the Constitution envisioned.
Quote from: p1tchblack on April 21, 2021, 09:35:52 AM
If you're interested in "truth", then I'm sure you have evidence to support what you claim to be true:
"No you are clearly trying to push an agenda while acting like you are sincere. It obvious to all of us."
yes and we can all see the evidence here on this forum
http://conservativepoliticalforum.com/political-discussion-and-debate/house-democrats-introduce-constitutional-amendment-to-ban-electoral-college/
QuoteI admit nothing and you've given me no reason to doubt what I think.
Yes I have. The founders designed the branches to have EQUAL power, and you have shown no evidence to the contrary.
QuoteThis is what I said: "the President isn't really that important".
IE 'unimportant'. Youre not very good at this double speak, are you?
QuoteCorrect. There's just too much hyperbole, rhetoric and dishonesty to address.
So you have nothing then, thanks for the admission.
QuoteWe're talking about popular vote vs EC as it relates to selecting a President. There have been 5 times when the EC vs PV hasn't matched and three of those were in the 1800's.
You are missing the point. The EC has had an effect on every single election in our history simply by its existence. Dont try to act like the only time it matters is when it differs from the popular vote.
Quote from: tac on April 21, 2021, 09:38:56 AM
So what? They were elected exactly the way the framers of the Constitution envisioned.
I'm not denying that and as long as that requirement exists, we should follow it. Again, all I'm saying is that the primary reason for the EC isn't valid any more. (Posted specifics on Page 2)
Quote from: T Hunt on April 21, 2021, 09:44:32 AM
yes and we can all see the evidence here on this forum
http://conservativepoliticalforum.com/political-discussion-and-debate/house-democrats-introduce-constitutional-amendment-to-ban-electoral-college/
"No you are clearly trying to push an agenda while acting like you are sincere."
Nope, you claim, as fact, that I'm pushing an agenda beyond exactly what I'm claim about the EC. So, please provide evidence to support your accusation.
Quote
Yes I have. The founders designed the branches to have EQUAL power, and you have shown no evidence to the contrary.
Electing the President by PV wouldn't impact the power of the executive branch
Quote
IE 'unimportant'. Youre not very good at this double speak, are you?
More dishonesty. Unimportant means that there is a complete lack of importance. That is not what I said.
Quote
You are missing the point. The EC has had an effect on every single election in our history simply by its existence. Dont try to act like the only time it matters is when it differs from the popular vote.
Beyond determining who wins the Presidency, which it has made a difference only twice in either of our life times, what meaningful effect has the EC had?
Quote from: p1tchblack on April 21, 2021, 09:46:53 AM
I'm not denying that and as long as that requirement exists, we should follow it. Again, all I'm saying is that the primary reason for the EC isn't valid any more. (Posted specifics on Page 2)
I assume you mean this...
QuoteThe Electoral College was created for two reasons. The first purpose was to create a buffer between the population and the selection of a President. The second as part of the structure of the government that gave extra power to the smaller states.
The first reason that the founders created the Electoral College is hard to understand today. The founding fathers were afraid of direct election to the Presidency. They feared a tyrant could manipulate public opinion and come to power. Hamilton wrote in the Federalist Papers:
It was equally desirable, that the immediate election should be made by men most capable of analyzing the qualities adapted to the station, and acting under circumstances favorable to deliberation, and to a judicious combination of all the reasons and inducements which were proper to govern their choice. A small number of persons, selected by their fellow-citizens from the general mass, will be most likely to possess the information and discernment requisite to such complicated investigations. It was also peculiarly desirable to afford as little opportunity as possible to tumult and disorder. This evil was not least to be dreaded in the election of a magistrate, who was to have so important an agency in the administration of the government as the President of the United States. But the precautions which have been so happily concerted in the system under consideration, promise an effectual security against this mischief.
Hamilton and the other founders believed that the electors would be able to ensure that only a qualified person becomes President. They thought that with the Electoral College no one would be able to manipulate the citizenry. It would act as a check on an electorate that might be duped. Hamilton and the other founders did not trust the population to make the right choice. The founders also believed that the Electoral College had the advantage of being a group that met only once and thus could not be manipulated over time by foreign governments or others.
https://www.historycentral.com/elections/Electoralcollgewhy.html
Your point is moot as these reasons are still very much in effect.
No the electoral college was not meant to make sure only qualified ppl get in, thats the attack the left tried to use to say the EC shldnt agree with their states but shld vote hildog in instead. The electors are there to vote the way their state did, not decide for themselves.
And if its job was to keep conmen out then if failed miserably as many conmen such as the bushes, clintons, and obamas have got into power with it still in effect.
Also the very thing you quoted states that the presidency is super important, thus nullifying your entire argument.
Quote from: T Hunt on April 21, 2021, 09:54:04 AM
I assume you mean this...
Your point is moot as these reasons are still very much in effect.
No the electoral college was not meant to make sure only qualified ppl get in, thats the attack the left tried to use to say the EC shldnt agree with their states but shld vote hildog in instead. The electors are there to vote the way their state did, not decide for themselves.
And if its job was to keep conmen out then if failed miserably as many conmen such as the bushes, clintons, and obamas have got into power with it still in effect.
Also the very thing you quoted states that the presidency is super important, thus nullifying your entire argument.
It's not my opinion. It's the opinion of the founding fathers and it was because they lived in a time when information wasn't readily available and they were concerned about an unacceptable person winning the presidency.
Quote from: p1tchblack on April 21, 2021, 09:46:53 AM
I'm not denying that and as long as that requirement exists, we should follow it. Again, all I'm saying is that the primary reason for the EC isn't valid any more. (Posted specifics on Page 2)
And what reasons are now not invalid?
Quote from: p1tchblack on April 21, 2021, 09:52:40 AM
"No you are clearly trying to push an agenda while acting like you are sincere."
Nope, you claim, as fact, that I'm pushing an agenda beyond exactly what I'm claim about the EC. So, please provide evidence to support your accusation.
Yes, pushing against the EC is a leftist agenda. That is a fact.
QuoteElecting the President by PV wouldn't impact the power of the executive branch
Thats not at all the point, you missed the point. The point is that the presidency is equal in power to the congress.
QuoteMore dishonesty. Unimportant means that there is a complete lack of importance. That is not what I said.
Apparently you need a lesson in everyday common english...
"the President isn't really that important"="unimportant"
thats how normal people talk, not the obama academic types.
QuoteBeyond determining who wins the Presidency, which it has made a difference only twice in either of our life times, what meaningful effect has the EC had?
again, here is the effect it has had in our lives
The EC does 4 things,
1)Defends states rights against the federal government
2)Defends smalls states against big states
3)Defends the minority from the majority
4)Defends country-folk from the city-folk
Quote from: p1tchblack on April 21, 2021, 09:56:41 AM
It's not my opinion. It's the opinion of the founding fathers and it was because they lived in a time when information wasn't readily available and they were concerned about an unacceptable person winning the presidency.
You mean like obama and clinton and bush, yes unacceptable people are still winning the presidency despite the EC, so no thats not its purpose. It has nothing to do with information being readily available, just look how available it is today yet you still are here pushing leftist talking points. People are easier to dupe today than in the founders time.
Quote from: tac on April 21, 2021, 09:59:22 AM
And what reasons are now invalid?
It's pasted below. The reason it's not a valid concern today is because there is no shortage of readily available information on every candidate. We have TV, readio, Newspapers, Internet, etc. That wasn't the case when the Constitution was written.
The first reason that the founders created the Electoral College is hard to understand today. The founding fathers were afraid of direct election to the Presidency. They feared a tyrant could manipulate public opinion and come to power. Hamilton wrote in the Federalist Papers:
"It was equally desirable, that the immediate election should be made by men most capable of analyzing the qualities adapted to the station, and acting under circumstances favorable to deliberation, and to a judicious combination of all the reasons and inducements which were proper to govern their choice. A small number of persons, selected by their fellow-citizens from the general mass, will be most likely to possess the information and discernment requisite to such complicated investigations. It was also peculiarly desirable to afford as little opportunity as possible to tumult and disorder. This evil was not least to be dreaded in the election of a magistrate, who was to have so important an agency in the administration of the government as the President of the United States. But the precautions which have been so happily concerted in the system under consideration, promise an effectual security against this mischief."
Again pitchblack, stop acting like there is right wing media and left wing media and both use propaganda.
That is a lie of the left which you are making clear you are a leftist since you keep parroting their ideas and philosophies.
Only the left has EVER used propaganda lies to 'push a narrative'.
The only agenda the right has EVER had was truth and reality, while the left want only power to destroy goodness.
Quote from: p1tchblack on April 21, 2021, 10:04:29 AM
It's pasted below. The reason it's not a valid concern today is because there is no shortage of readily available information on every candidate. We have TV, readio, Newspapers, Internet, etc. That wasn't the case when the Constitution was written.
The first reason that the founders created the Electoral College is hard to understand today. The founding fathers were afraid of direct election to the Presidency. They feared a tyrant could manipulate public opinion and come to power. Hamilton wrote in the Federalist Papers:
"It was equally desirable, that the immediate election should be made by men most capable of analyzing the qualities adapted to the station, and acting under circumstances favorable to deliberation, and to a judicious combination of all the reasons and inducements which were proper to govern their choice. A small number of persons, selected by their fellow-citizens from the general mass, will be most likely to possess the information and discernment requisite to such complicated investigations. It was also peculiarly desirable to afford as little opportunity as possible to tumult and disorder. This evil was not least to be dreaded in the election of a magistrate, who was to have so important an agency in the administration of the government as the President of the United States. But the precautions which have been so happily concerted in the system under consideration, promise an effectual security against this mischief."
But you are proven wrong by the fact that disinformation, like biden is the president, is more prevalent today then in the founders time. Your point is moot because so many are deceived today.
Quote from: T Hunt on April 21, 2021, 10:01:06 AM
Yes, pushing against the EC is a leftist agenda. That is a fact.
The fact that Leftists support getting rid of the EC doesn't mean that there aren't legitimate reasons (as I have repeatedly stated) to get rid of the EC. So, tell me the evidence you have that proves your claim that I support getting rid of the EC to push a leftist agenda.
Quote
Thats not at all the point, you missed the point. The point is that the presidency is equal in power to the congress.
Equal power doesn't mean they have the same functions. Again, people attack Obama for Obamacare... but he only signed the Bill
that got to him from Congress. The President cannot create laws. If the concern about getting rid of the EC is to prevent mob rule, it's irrelevant because it's Congress, which has the Senate where all states have equal power, the creates laws.
Quote
Apparently you need a lesson in everyday common english...
"the President isn't really that important"="unimportant"
thats how normal people talk, not the obama academic types.
You're continued dishonesty is noted.
again, here is the effect it has had in our lives
The EC does 4 things,
Quote
1)Defends states rights against the federal government
2)Defends smalls states against big states
3)Defends the minority from the majority
4)Defends country-folk from the city-folk
1)Defends states rights against the federal government
- How would determining the president defend states' rights?
2)Defends smalls states against big states
- That's done by the Senate where all states have equal power
3)Defends the minority from the majority
- That's done in the Senate where all states have equal power and it's also done via state sovereignty protected in the Constitution.
4)Defends country-folk from the city-folk
- That's done by the Senate where all states have equal power and can be accomplished in the House where all the 'country folk' states can band together if they want.
Quote from: p1tchblack on April 21, 2021, 10:16:25 AM
The fact that Leftists support getting rid of the EC doesn't mean that there aren't legitimate reasons (as I have repeatedly stated) to get rid of the EC. So, tell me the evidence you have that proves your claim that I support getting rid of the EC to push a leftist agenda.
The evidence is that you are doing it. You might as well say that there are reasons for communism and that you can push those with out being a leftist.
QuoteEqual power doesn't mean they have the same functions. Again, people attack Obama for Obamacare... but he only signed the Bill that got to him from Congress. The President cannot create laws. If the concern about getting rid of the EC is to prevent mob rule, it's irrelevant because it's Congress, which has the Senate where all states have equal power, the creates laws.
No, equal power means equal power. Yes the president is equally powerful as congress, thats the way it was designed. So your point still fails.
QuoteYou're continued dishonesty is noted.
As is your continued attempt at leftist double speak. Everyone here sees you for what you are, you can stop trying to hide it now...
Quote- That's done by the Senate where all states have equal power and can be accomplished in the House where all the 'country folk' states can band together if they want.
In your version, what stops all the 'city folk' states from ganging up too? states rights are only one part of this, you have yet to address the other three...
No srry, the senate doesnt achieve any of that, esp after it was changed to go by the states popular votes instead of being appointed by governors. Of those 4 things I listed you only seem concerned about the states rights, none of the other three...
Wow, country folk states and city folk states? No thats not how it works at all. There are country folk and city folk in every state. Even the blue states are majority red if you look at a map. Its more like a few blue cities vs the rest of the country.
Under your way, those few blue cities would control the whole country, just as the left wants...
Quote from: p1tchblack on April 20, 2021, 07:24:56 AM
I look at the people voting for President in the same way I look at a state voting for Governor. When you vote for governor, it's expected that the most votes will come from the biggest cities and, while the governor governs the state, each city (or state for Pres) still does their own thing.
I've never understood all the hype around the Presidential election. Congress is so much more important.
Absolutely wrong again!
What part of "Three Equal Branches" do you not understand?
"The evidence is that you are doing it. You might as well say that there are reasons for communism and that you can push those with out being a leftist"
Leftists breathe air. So, am I automatically a Leftist because I breathe air, too?
Quote from: p1tchblack on April 21, 2021, 10:44:57 AM
"The evidence is that you are doing it. You might as well say that there are reasons for communism and that you can push those with out being a leftist"
Leftists breathe air. So, am I automatically a Leftist because I breathe air, too?
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Wow, typical leftist logic, the logic of children.
So now breathing is the same a pushing an agenda? You are conflating apples and oranges.
Leftism is a philosophy before it is a movement or group of people.
If you push that philosophy then you are by definition part of it.
You are essentially saying something like, "im going to push the bible as the true word of God, but im not a christian!"
Quote from: p1tchblack on April 21, 2021, 10:44:57 AM
"The evidence is that you are doing it. You might as well say that there are reasons for communism and that you can push those with out being a leftist"
Leftists breathe air. So, am I automatically a Leftist because I breathe air, too?
Of course not...you're a leftist because you're a left wing jut job....
You aren't the first idiot liberal to come here trying to do what you are doing...we are far smarter than you and can see right through you....and you have no clue how....
Quote from: p1tchblack on April 21, 2021, 10:44:57 AM
"The evidence is that you are doing it. You might as well say that there are reasons for communism and that you can push those with out being a leftist"
Leftists breathe air. So, am I automatically a Leftist because I breathe air, too?
Who or what were you responding to?
Quote from: T Hunt on April 21, 2021, 10:52:49 AM
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Wow, typical leftist logic, the logic of children.
So now breathing is the same a pushing an agenda? You are conflating apples and oranges.
Leftism is a philosophy before it is a movement or group of people.
If you push that philosophy then you are by definition part of it.
You are essentially saying something like, "im going to push the bible as the true word of God, but im not a christian!"
More like conflating an elephant turd to an apple.
What he and all leftists hate to admit is, that Conservatism = Society, while leftism = control.
Quote from: Solar on April 21, 2021, 10:57:40 AM
Who or what were you responding to?
That was me he was responding too. I guess he forgot the quote function...
QuoteQuoteQuote from: p1tchblack on Today at 10:16:25 AM
The fact that Leftists support getting rid of the EC doesn't mean that there aren't legitimate reasons (as I have repeatedly stated) to get rid of the EC. So, tell me the evidence you have that proves your claim that I support getting rid of the EC to push a leftist agenda.
The evidence is that you are doing it. You might as well say that there are reasons for communism and that you can push those with out being a leftist.
Quote from: p1tchblack on April 21, 2021, 10:04:29 AM
It's pasted below. The reason it's not a valid concern today is because there is no shortage of readily available information on every candidate. We have TV, readio, Newspapers, Internet, etc. That wasn't the case when the Constitution was written.
The first reason that the founders created the Electoral College is hard to understand today. The founding fathers were afraid of direct election to the Presidency. They feared a tyrant could manipulate public opinion and come to power. Hamilton wrote in the Federalist Papers:
"It was equally desirable, that the immediate election should be made by men most capable of analyzing the qualities adapted to the station, and acting under circumstances favorable to deliberation, and to a judicious combination of all the reasons and inducements which were proper to govern their choice. A small number of persons, selected by their fellow-citizens from the general mass, will be most likely to possess the information and discernment requisite to such complicated investigations. It was also peculiarly desirable to afford as little opportunity as possible to tumult and disorder. This evil was not least to be dreaded in the election of a magistrate, who was to have so important an agency in the administration of the government as the President of the United States. But the precautions which have been so happily concerted in the system under consideration, promise an effectual security against this mischief."
Links?
Quote from: T Hunt on April 21, 2021, 10:52:49 AM
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Wow, typical leftist logic, the logic of children.
So now breathing is the same a pushing an agenda? You are conflating apples and oranges.
Leftism is a philosophy before it is a movement or group of people.
If you push that philosophy then you are by definition part of it.
You are essentially saying something like, "im going to push the bible as the true word of God, but im not a christian!"
So, to clarify,
anyone who doesn't see a need for the EC is a Leftist?
Quote from: p1tchblack on April 21, 2021, 11:04:58 AM
So, to clarify, anyone who doesn't see a need for the EC is a Leftist?
UnAmerican....fascist nazi....communist.....socialist....yes...
Do you have any other questions that are more difficult?
Quote from: tac on April 21, 2021, 11:04:29 AM
Links?
https://www.historycentral.com/elections/Electoralcollgewhy.html
There are others. The one above is the first one I found that explained it well and referenced the Federalist Papers.
Quote from: p1tchblack on April 21, 2021, 11:04:58 AM
So, to clarify, anyone who doesn't see a need for the EC is a Leftist?
Pretty much anyone who comes here with the bull shit you have brought, to convince others that we need to get rid of parts of the constitution, is a leftist. We have not been proven wrong yet. I think T Hunt nailed it.
Quote from: Possum on April 21, 2021, 11:13:02 AM
Pretty much anyone who comes here with the bull shit you have brought, to convince others that we need to get rid of parts of the constitution, is a leftist. We have not been proven wrong yet. I think T Hunt nailed it.
I'm not trying to convince anyone to believe anything. I stated that I think getting rid of the EC is the way to go because a) I want each person's vote to count as one vote in all elections and b) the primary reason it was put into place is no longer an issue.
Quote from: p1tchblack on April 21, 2021, 11:51:27 AM
I'm not trying to convince anyone to believe anything. I stated that I think getting rid of the EC is the way to go because a) I want each person's vote to count as one vote in all elections and b) the primary reason it was put into place is no longer an issue.
Wrong on both counts again!
Every vote counts and the EC was put in place to level the playing field in order to protect States and smaller communities.
What you're proposing is definitely mob rule.
There is no such thing as a Blue State, only a smattering of Dim ruled ruled shithole cities, these cities would dictate over the entire country. That's Mob Rule!
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-JaI2SlJZ4ZU/YH4Q-IcHGTI/AAAAAAAAuZE/P7t6h6ONW8UasD_pdatbnYVVgwhfI95UACLcBGAsYHQ/w640-h490/809.jpeg)
Quote from: Hoofer on April 21, 2021, 12:54:35 PM
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-JaI2SlJZ4ZU/YH4Q-IcHGTI/AAAAAAAAuZE/P7t6h6ONW8UasD_pdatbnYVVgwhfI95UACLcBGAsYHQ/w640-h490/809.jpeg)
EXACTLY! Who did the broken system help?
Quote from: p1tchblack on April 21, 2021, 11:51:27 AM
I'm not trying to convince anyone to believe anything. I stated that I think getting rid of the EC is the way to go because a) I want each person's vote to count as one vote in all elections and b) the primary reason it was put into place is no longer an issue.
Fine, you stated it and nobody agreed with you. Are you waiting on a trophy? Do you want a pat on the back? If you are waiting for someone to agree with you, be prepared for a long wait. We hear this liberal crap all the time.
This is all academic. You need an amendment to the constitution to get rid of the EC.Never get enough states to do that.Of,if the progressives take complete power,they may simply overthrow the govt anyway.
Quote from: Talbot2 on April 23, 2021, 09:07:13 PM
This is all academic. You need an amendment to the constitution to get rid of the EC.Never get enough states to do that.Of,if the progressives take complete power,they may simply overthrow the govt anyway.
I think that's their plan, but they're too stupid to know what will happen if they try.