How important is it to you that all Americans have food, a place to sleep, and minimum health care?  Dems seem to think we don't care about our fellow countrymen just because we don't support free handouts.  I would love to live in a country without poverty.  I just think that democrats don't have a clue about how to get us there.  What do you think?

Nobody's gonna say that it isn't important.

Soup-kitchens, homeless-shelters, charity-institutions, etc. have been getting the job done for decades. 

Ask yourself who's impoverished, why, and what that means. 

Nobody was ever denied emergency medical-care.  A miniscule percentage were ever denied health-insurance. 

There has been, and never will be such a thing as a country without 'poverty'.  Study anthropology, then show me any ape-tribe that doesn't contain a percentage of lethargic schmoozers. 

So if betterment of Society (human race) is the ultimate goal, what's the most reasonable way to achieve it?   'Eliminating poverty' ( which lessens self-survival, and renders 'fitness of the group-self as a  secondary quantitative') or 'survival of the fittest' (which incorporates the 'elimination of poverty' as a help those who're willing to help themselves regimen)?   

I choose the latter.  Let the Dem-mindset twist-in-the-breeze...   

Quote from: steven M003 on March 16, 2014, 09:38:54 PM
How important is it to you that all Americans have food, a place to sleep, and minimum health care?  Dems seem to think we don't care about our fellow countrymen just because we don't support free handouts.  I would love to live in a country without poverty.  I just think that democrats don't have a clue about how to get us there.  What do you think?

With the left, it's always about division, rich and poor, blacks and whites, they've even started in on the term illegal as  derogatory, that if you use it, you're racist, it's all about pitting one group against another, and has nothing to do with inclusion.
The left has never been about helping people, it's always been about power and control, control the narrative, and you seize power, and obviously you've fallen for the narrative, your question is proof of that.

There is no such thing as poor in this country when compared to the rest of the world, it's all relative.
Take the richest part of America, by comparison, we're all poor, but remove them from the equation, and there is no poor in the country, just some that prefer to live off the labor of others, but they still manage to have all the luxuries that 90% of the world could only dream of, such as TV, cell phone, free food etc.
All paid for by you and I, or in truth, the next generation.

So I ask you, why should the next generation pay for the living standard we all share today, shouldn't all of us be sacrificing just as people did just 70 short years ago?
I say sacrifice, because on today's standard, giving up certain luxuries was a way of life back then, called working toward a better future. The same way most of us were raised, work hard, save and maybe one day you can have the things you dreamed about.

Now all you have to do is quit your job, and the govt will support you.

So ask yourself, is the left helping, or intentionally creating a division in classes along with animosity between the two?
The leaches are jealous and demand more, and the taxpayer hates them for it.
Yeah, looks like the left is succeeding.

"The poor will always be with us". -Jesus

Jesus was also not fond of the despotic monolithic constructs like the Roman royalty and Jewish royalty.

I don't believe that He wanted to grow the power of people like this, through confiscation of all property and redistribution as dictated by a few dictators.

He preached the solution over and over - each of us to open up our hearts and share what each of us has.

No coercion, confiscation, or communism from the barrel of a gun.  Just more goodness from each of us, that we bring sincerely.

Quote from: steven M003 on March 16, 2014, 09:38:54 PM
How important is it to you that all Americans have food, a place to sleep, and minimum health care?  Dems seem to think we don't care about our fellow countrymen just because we don't support free handouts.  I would love to live in a country without poverty.  I just think that democrats don't have a clue about how to get us there.  What do you think?

Democrats are the last people you should ask about earning your daily bread. Take the record-breaking golf enthusiast Hussein the Magnificent, who'd rather hit the links than stare down a Russian cowboy. Or the sex addict wanting Uncle Sam to fork out $3,000 a year for birth control costing a fraction of that at a Target pharmacy. Or the fifth-generation welfare junkies whose very mindset is predicated on someone else paying their bills.

What's to like about a parasite? Is America any different than the countries where so many of our present-day leeches hail from? Would their original countries tolerate the lack of work ethic which so typifies Democratic Party policy?

Yes, we have home-grown leeches. They're not all "furrin immygrunts," don'tcha know. I'm not totally against taxpayer-funded welfare, either. I believe in "a hand up, not a hand out" policy. Uncle Sam does not. They let the scammers and deadbeats hang on forever.

So what's the solution? If we can't do it any other way, do it with tough love. Hard core down-'n'-dirty OJT, on-the-job work experience or else they don't get fed. Not all welfare bums are openly criminal. They will probably go to work, however badly due to total lack of experience...but their workfare would at least be SOME compensation to taxpayers.

The other ones? Leave. Any exit you like.

Quote from: AndyJackson on March 17, 2014, 07:15:52 AM
"The poor will always be with us". -Jesus

Jesus was also not fond of the despotic monolithic constructs like the Roman royalty and Jewish royalty.

I don't believe that He wanted to grow the power of people like this, through confiscation of all property and redistribution as dictated by a few dictators.

He preached the solution over and over - each of us to open up our hearts and share what each of us has.

No coercion, confiscation, or communism from the barrel of a gun.  Just more goodness from each of us, that we bring sincerely.

Yep!
And that's exactly how it used to be in this country, you gave back to the community to help those truly in need, usually via the church.
But with the left demonizing the church, based on the ludicrous idea that separation of church and state meant church was not allowed to mix with govt, when the Founders meant that govt was not allowed to interfere with the church.

The left has managed to remove church altogether even the schools, where the churches message that charity was a responsibility, instead of the belief that govt be the charity via theft of the taxpayer.

It's written again and again in Marx, Alinsky, and every communist tome.

Get rid of religion, family, private property, and anything resembling basic rights in a constitution.  These are absolutely a threat to communism.

Anybody claiming otherwise, are doing the mandatory taqquiyah lying......or are incredibly ignorant and foolish.  They've only been putting this in writing for all to see, for 150 years.

Just like Obama's transformation and the Muslim jihad, and the illegals' reconquesta and "raza".   They've only been writing it and blabbing it at us incessantly.

Quote from: AndyJackson on March 17, 2014, 08:13:36 AM
It's written again and again in Marx, Alinsky, and every communist tome.

Get rid of religion, family, private property, and anything resembling basic rights in a constitution.  These are absolutely a threat to communism.

Anybody claiming otherwise, are doing the mandatory taqquiyah lying......or are incredibly ignorant and foolish.  They've only been putting this in writing for all to see, for 150 years.

Just like Obama's transformation and the Muslim jihad, and the illegals' reconquesta and "raza".   They've only been writing it and blabbing it at us incessantly.

Adolf Hitler wrote Mein Kampf while he was in Landsberg Prison in 1924, and put into writing every belief and goal of the Nazis for all to see. Ten years later he seized power in Germany and proceeded to do.... exactly, precisely, to the letter what he said he was going to do in Mein Kampf.

The Left is not shy about telling us what they want and what they'll do to get it -- all we have to do is listen.

Quote from: TboneAgain on March 17, 2014, 09:47:43 AM
Adolf Hitler wrote Mein Kampf while he was in Landsberg Prison in 1924, and put into writing every belief and goal of the Nazis for all to see. Ten years later he seized power in Germany and proceeded to do.... exactly, precisely, to the letter what he said he was going to do in Mein Kampf.

The Left is not shy about telling us what they want and what they'll do to get it -- all we have to do is listen.

Your point is well made. Unfortunately, many do not hear really what is being said or are too blind to understand the ramifications of what is intended. Obama told us exactly what he wanted to do. Yet, so many of our citizens did not understand or were too enamored with his words to actually realize what was happening.

There's just another mental illness that lets people convince themselves that even the most grotesque and terrible plans, will really be OK and yield something nice.  And the insane fools just have to help this wonderful outcome to fruition, and get praise for being part of the wonderfulness.

There's no other way for anybody to have supported Hitler and the axis.  They actually thought something nice would come from aryan supremacy and genocide and world conquest. 

Just like Obama. About 75 million goofballs think something nice will come from destroying America and the rich.

Muslims & illegals too.  Something nice and fair and kind will certainly come from whatever they're up to.

Does anyone on this forum remember when B. Clinton made an appeal to churches to open their doors to all the poor and hungry?  Things were getting pretty bad in this country and he thought that churches could do more to help.  In my mind churches were already doing this but there were limits to it, it wasn't like it was a bottomless source of help.  I also know that our government doesn't want you to "church" these folks, just give, give, give.

There is a place in Sptbg., (Unless someone had enough sense to shut it down) that was particularly known to help drug addicts or homeless find their way back into society.  This place was called Volunteers of America and I did volunteer there long enough to read their placards on the wall describing their goals and beliefs.  The one that got me outta' there was the one that said that under no circumstances were any volunteers to undertake "churching" of the clients.  You couldn't tell them about Jesus or try to get them to seek spiritual help from any clergy.  My husband had just died and I wanted to busy myself with some community work.  I soon found out which organizations were the best ones to do this type of volunteering.  One such organization was the pregnancy center, the one that encouraged unwed mothers-to-be to keep their babies instead of killing them.  I can't say enough good about this society of caring people.

The churches that I have attended around here believe in helping people and I have known some of them to help strangers that showed up needing various types of help.  Most of the time the church will welcome them and will undertake to get them back on their feet if it is determined from talks with them that the needs are true. 

There are soup kitchens here run by local churches.  For some it is a once-a-week venture,  depending on the availability of volunteers to  run it.  Two churches in my town run a daily kitchen.  We have shelters run by Christian groups.  Still, the list of clients is getting longer.  When is it enough?  I can guarantee you that the clients of these church organizations will hear about Jesus.

Conservatives don't want poverty at all. It hurts the economy and the country. The difference is that conservatives support cutting through bureaucratic red tape to allow people to be self-reliant. This gives them the ability to innovate, create, work, and start businesses to better themselves. Liberals want people to be government-reliant. The primary goal is to keep them in power rather than to empower the people. The liberals control the media in an attempt to brainwash the people into thinking conservatives don't care about them or poverty thereby further ensuring votes. Liberals are wolves in sheeps clothing who use lies and distortions to demonize conservatives. So the issue really isn't whether or not we care about the poor. It's how do we empower a society that has been beaten down into submission and reliance by the liberals.

Quote from: Dr. Meh on March 17, 2014, 11:22:13 AM
Conservatives don't want poverty at all. It hurts the economy and the country. The difference is that conservatives support cutting through bureaucratic red tape to allow people to be self-reliant. This gives them the ability to innovate, create, work, and start businesses to better themselves. Liberals want people to be government-reliant. The primary goal is to keep them in power rather than to empower the people. The liberals control the media in an attempt to brainwash the people into thinking conservatives don't care about them or poverty thereby further ensuring votes. Liberals are wolves in sheeps clothing who use lies and distortions to demonize conservatives. So the issue really isn't whether or not we care about the poor. It's how do we empower a society that has been beaten down into submission and reliance by the liberals.

That about sums it up.

QuoteConservatives don't want poverty at all. It hurts the economy and the country. The difference is that conservatives support cutting through bureaucratic red tape to allow people to be self-reliant. This gives them the ability to innovate, create, work, and start businesses to better themselves. Liberals want people to be government-reliant. The primary goal is to keep them in power rather than to empower the people. The liberals control the media in an attempt to brainwash the people into thinking conservatives don't care about them or poverty thereby further ensuring votes. Liberals are wolves in sheeps clothing who use lies and distortions to demonize conservatives. So the issue really isn't whether or not we care about the poor. It's how do we empower a society that has been beaten down into submission and reliance by the liberals.

You just said pretty much exactly what i think, only 5x better.  I came here to get some clarity and I did.

Quote from: Dr. Meh on March 17, 2014, 11:22:13 AM
Conservatives don't want poverty at all. It hurts the economy and the country. The difference is that conservatives support cutting through bureaucratic red tape to allow people to be self-reliant. This gives them the ability to innovate, create, work, and start businesses to better themselves. Liberals want people to be government-reliant. The primary goal is to keep them in power rather than to empower the people. The liberals control the media in an attempt to brainwash the people into thinking conservatives don't care about them or poverty thereby further ensuring votes. Liberals are wolves in sheeps clothing who use lies and distortions to demonize conservatives. So the issue really isn't whether or not we care about the poor. It's how do we empower a society that has been beaten down into submission and reliance by the liberals.

You are correct. I would add, however, that unlike liberal/progressives, conservatives recognize that poverty (or at least stark inequality of circumstance or outcome) is a simple fact of life among members of the human species. We conservatives recognize the value of getting the hell out of the way and allowing people to achieve to their potential and their will. And we understand and accept that there are as many definitions of 'success' as there are people to define it. Likewise 'poverty.' Lib/Progs, on the other hand, seek to modify the existence of those they strive to dominate so that their lives (the lives of the dominated) resemble some pre-conceived idea of 'normalness.'

Lib/progs don't think, "You don't have enough wealth to enable you to sustain life, so here's some of mine." That's charity. Instead they think, "You don't have as much wealth as I think you should have, so here's some of his." That's liberal/progressive socialism.