http://www.theblogmocracy.com/2012/07/07/gm-fleet-sales-to-the-government-up-79-in-june/ (http://www.theblogmocracy.com/2012/07/07/gm-fleet-sales-to-the-government-up-79-in-june/)
How long can this continue? :blink:
Quote from: kramarat on July 12, 2012, 06:59:32 AM
http://www.theblogmocracy.com/2012/07/07/gm-fleet-sales-to-the-government-up-79-in-june/ (http://www.theblogmocracy.com/2012/07/07/gm-fleet-sales-to-the-government-up-79-in-june/)
How long can this continue? :blink:
Actually, it makes sense. The government should buy all their vehicles from GM. At a discount of course. And at least until they've paid off the money they owe the taxpayers.
Quote from: mdgiles on July 12, 2012, 07:04:33 AM
Actually, it makes sense. The government should buy all their vehicles from GM. At a discount of course. And at least until they've paid off the money they owe the taxpayers.
Really? Loan tax money to GM..................then use tax money to buy cars that no one else wants, so that GM can pay back the money, while at the same time propping up the unions, which donate heavily to the democrat party.
Sounds a little hokey to me. :confused:
Quote from: kramarat on July 12, 2012, 07:16:41 AM
Really? Loan tax money to GM..................then use tax money to buy cars that no one else wants, so that GM can pay back the money, while at the same time propping up the unions, which donate heavily to the democrat party.
Sounds a little hokey to me. :confused:
If the government is going to buy cars, which it has to do (you don't expect those government pogies to ride on public transportation with the "peasants", do you), It might as well buy from GM. The money goes to GM - which turns right around and sends it back to the government. As a matter of fact, why send GM any money. Simply write down the loan balance by the cost of the cars.
Quote from: mdgiles on July 12, 2012, 07:27:21 AM
If the government is going to buy cars, which it has to do (you don't expect those government pogies to ride on public transportation with the "peasants", do you), It might as well buy from GM. The money goes to GM - which turns right around and sends it back to the government. As a matter of fact, why send GM any money. Simply write down the loan balance by the cost of the cars.
I was against the bailouts in the first place. I suppose it makes sense for the government to buy GM. The problem is, (for me), that the damned government is tinkering in the private market...............
again still! Ford is completely out of the competition to supply cars to the government. It's not fair. They didn't get a bailout, and are being punished for good business practices. It's the same thing that's going on across the country. The people that do the right thing are being punished, and the screwups are being rewarded. I don't like it a bit!
http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2012/03/22/when-will-gm-pay-us-back.aspx (http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2012/03/22/when-will-gm-pay-us-back.aspx)
When the government decides to make purchases from the private market, there should be a competitive bidding process.
GM is no longer a privately held company. What the government is doing should be illegal.
Quote from: kramarat on July 12, 2012, 07:49:52 AM
When the government decides to make purchases from the private market, there should be a competitive bidding process.
GM is no longer a privately held company. What the government is doing should be illegal.
That's why I suggested that GM simply be required to supply the cars to the government, and the loans written down. No "sales", which are in reality is just a scam.
Quote from: mdgiles on July 12, 2012, 07:58:28 AM
That's why I suggested that GM simply be required to supply the cars to the government, and the loans written down. No "sales", which are in reality is just a scam.
Sure it's a scam. It would be a scam either way.
The government is putting it's thumb on the scales of the free market, and preventing the other US car companies from bidding on government contracts. They have no business artificially inflating GM's sales numbers. :angry:
Quote from: kramarat on July 12, 2012, 08:11:53 AM
Sure it's a scam. It would be a scam either way.
The government is putting it's thumb on the scales of the free market, and preventing the other US car companies from bidding on government contracts. They have no business artificially inflating GM's sales numbers. :angry:
There is no "right" to get government contracts. GM should be required to produce cars for the government because they owe the government money, not only that, but government production should have priority. Ford should aim toward the consumer market.
Quote from: mdgiles on July 12, 2012, 08:20:48 AM
There is no "right" to get government contracts. GM should be required to produce cars for the government because they owe the government money, not only that, but government production should have priority. Ford should aim toward the consumer market.
From Motley:
Meaning Barack Obama is now campaigning on the "success" of – the government buying cars from...the government's car company. With our money.
That's like you setting up a lemonade stand for your kids. You buy them the lemons, sugar, cups and pitchers – and then buy most of the lemonade yourself.
Except you are President Obama. Your kids are the United Autoworkers Union. And the lemonade cost $50 billion.
At least you get to tax your neighbors for the $50 billion."
Quote from: kramarat on July 12, 2012, 08:34:33 AM
From Motley:
Meaning Barack Obama is now campaigning on the "success" of – the government buying cars from...the government's car company. With our money.
That's like you setting up a lemonade stand for your kids. You buy them the lemons, sugar, cups and pitchers – and then buy most of the lemonade yourself.
Except you are President Obama. Your kids are the United Autoworkers Union. And the lemonade cost $50 billion.
At least you get to tax your neighbors for the $50 billion."
That's why I'm saying they shouldn't be out front selling "lemonade", but be require to make some at home whenever it's desired.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/30/end-no-bid-contracts-above-25000/ (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/30/end-no-bid-contracts-above-25000/)
I accidentally uncovered another lie. :rolleyes:
Quote from: mdgiles on July 12, 2012, 08:41:49 AM
That's why I'm saying they shouldn't be out front selling "lemonade", but be require to make some at home whenever it's desired.
And my point is, that government should never get involved with, or have a stake in, private industry. That's how they do it in China...............not here.
Quote from: kramarat on July 12, 2012, 08:58:56 AM
And my point is, that government should never get involved with, or have a stake in, private industry. That's how they do it in China...............not here.
Of course not, then it becomes crony capitalism and it isn't the free market.
BUT since you've already given my tax dollars to GM, in return I expect cars from GM. I expect them at cost. And I expect to advance no actual cash to GM, but simply to write down the loan money you already owe.
Quote from: mdgiles on July 12, 2012, 07:04:33 AM
Actually, it makes sense. The government should buy all their vehicles from GM. At a discount of course. And at least until they've paid off the money they owe the taxpayers.
They have! The Government is the largest buyer of the Volt.
I understand what Giles is saying and in an honest Govt/business relationship it would work, but regardless, it removes the key element involved in the bidding process, Competition.
In dealing with a debtor, the Govt says it will buy a certain amount of cars, so GM finds all kinds of ways to pay off the debt even quicker, by folding in and padding the bill raise the price of each car.
And the competition aspect with other manufactures of cars is cut out of he bidding process altogether.
Quote from: Solar on July 12, 2012, 09:35:28 AM
I understand what Giles is saying and in an honest Govt/business relationship it would work, but regardless, it removes the key element involved in the bidding process, Competition.
In dealing with a debtor, the Govt says it will buy a certain amount of cars, so GM finds all kinds of ways to pay off the debt even quicker, by folding in and padding the bill raise the price of each car.
And the competition aspect with other manufactures of cars is cut out of he bidding process altogether.
I understand too. And even agree to a certain extent.
It's the fact that it's going down the way it is, that bugs me.
Quote from: skuttlebutt on July 12, 2012, 09:21:54 AM
They have! The Government is the largest buyer of the Volt.
No, no, no, no. I said GM should supply the government with cars - not slow rolling fire bombs.
The Volt is an example of the Obama's Islamic sympathies. He's produced a suicide vehicle! :tounge:
EDIT: Now that I think about it, why isn't GM exporting these things to the Middle East! Talk about a market!
Quote from: kramarat on July 12, 2012, 09:39:46 AM
I understand too. And even agree to a certain extent.
It's the fact that it's going down the way it is, that bugs me.
It's no different than his approach to solar, entering an established mkt only managed to destroy it.
GM needs to be given a date in which to pay off it's debt, if it can't reach that date, it needs to enter bankruptcy and deal with the consequences, just like it should have in the beginning.
Quote from: Solar on July 12, 2012, 09:35:28 AM
I understand what Giles is saying and in an honest Govt/business relationship it would work, but regardless, it removes the key element involved in the bidding process, Competition.
In dealing with a debtor, the Govt says it will buy a certain amount of cars, so GM finds all kinds of ways to pay off the debt even quicker, by folding in and padding the bill raise the price of each car.
And the competition aspect with other manufactures of cars is cut out of he bidding process altogether.
As the creditor, the government can set the price it will credit the loan balance for each car. Just as the government only pays a certain amount for medicare, there's no reason for them to pay over a certain amount for each car, as if the don't know the cost figures on each vehicle? And if I have to dedicate a number of my production lines to making cars for the government, that means I can't use them for consumer vehicles. Basically the government it just giving them enough business to make sure they don't have to shut those lines down - and not a penny more. The object isn't to make GM super profitable, but for them to make enough to avoid bankruptcy.
Quote from: mdgiles on July 12, 2012, 10:07:05 AM
As the creditor, the government can set the price it will credit the loan balance for each car. Just as the government only pays a certain amount for medicare, there's no reason for them to pay over a certain amount for each car, as if the don't know the cost figures on each vehicle? And if I have to dedicate a number of my production lines to making cars for the government, that means I can't use them for consumer vehicles. Basically the government it just giving them enough business to make sure they don't have to shut those lines down - and not a penny more. The object isn't to make GM super profitable, but for them to make enough to avoid bankruptcy.
In theory that is how it's supposed to work, but this is not the average American Govt were dealing with.
Nor is it the Govt responsibility to keep a sector of private industry alive.
The problem isn't the Govt. getting cars from GM...the problem is increasing the purchase orders for the fleet by 79% to paint a rosy picture of the bailout.
Quote from: bluelieu on July 12, 2012, 10:29:33 AM
The problem isn't the Govt. getting cars from GM...the problem is increasing the purchase orders for the fleet by 79% to paint a rosy picture of the bailout.
BINGO !!
That's exactly what's going on. Soon we will hear it on the MSM, and nobody will call them on the BS. After the last dismal report, they are desperate for something positive they can point to.
Quote from: bluelieu on July 12, 2012, 10:29:33 AM
The problem isn't the Govt. getting cars from GM...the problem is increasing the purchase orders for the fleet by 79% to paint a rosy picture of the bailout.
Good point. It's getting
UNNEEDED cars from GM that's the problem.
Quote from: bluelieu on July 12, 2012, 10:29:33 AM
The problem isn't the Govt. getting cars from GM...the problem is increasing the purchase orders for the fleet by 79% to paint a rosy picture of the bailout.
Right on bluelieu. I posted a year or so ago, I was going for a jog one day and I short cut through a parking lot where a small Army recruiting office was. In the parking lot there were maybe 20 or 30 brand spanking new GM vehicles. They shared a parking lot with a grocery store, so it was pretty big. I knew right then the government was buying GM cars to inflate sales.
Quote from: taxed on July 12, 2012, 11:02:54 AM
Right on bluelieu. I posted a year or so ago, I was going for a jog one day and I short cut through a parking lot where a small Army recruiting office was. In the parking lot there were maybe 20 or 30 brand spanking new GM vehicles. They shared a parking lot with a grocery store, so it was pretty big. I knew right then the government was buying GM cars to inflate sales.
At this rate a File Clerk -Level III will drive a fleet car to and from work...The GSA was probably auctioning them to its workers at the Las Vegas convention.
Quote from: Indy on July 12, 2012, 10:38:24 AM
BINGO !!
That's exactly what's going on. Soon we will hear it on the MSM, and nobody will call them on the BS. After the last dismal report, they are desperate for something positive they can point to.
Yep. If GM just made cars and handed them to the government to pay off their debt, they wouldn't count as sales. Obummer needs sales figures to show what a success the bailout has been. Giles nailed it.................it's a scam.
Hmm.... Should this be moved to the Alternate Boards under Scams. :lol:
Quote from: walkstall on July 12, 2012, 12:17:08 PM
Hmm.... Should this be moved to the Alternate Boards under Scams. :lol:
Every conversation that involves this administration would have to be moved there. :ohmy: