Quote from: Solar on September 29, 2010, 04:17:39 PM
Still don't see any evidence of your claims.
And again, no opinion piece, just the facts.

Really?

So
28,000 – The number of HP workers laid off under Carly Fiorina's tenure.
50% – The decline in HP's stock value during Fiorina's 5 ½ years on the job.
8 – The number of times Fiorina missed profit expectations in her 21 financial quarters at HP; this was more than double the combined misses of IBM and Dell during the same period.

And HP paying $42 million to fire her for Incompetence is just an "Opinion" ???

OK  ::)

This is what I call "The Un-Realist loop".  He will keep posting the same stuff, then terminate his post with a  ::)

Quote from: taxed on September 29, 2010, 04:38:11 PM
This is what I call "The Un-Realist loop".  He will keep posting the same stuff, then terminate his post with a  ::)

Well why don't you post something to counter it then?

All I see from anyone here are personal opinions along with insults from certain clueless ignorant admin.

So post something other than your "personal" opinion eh?

Quote from: Pagan on September 29, 2010, 03:50:27 PM
Read my post AGAIN

It was in no way in support of Boxer, it was a statement of the sad state of the GOP of not putting up a candidate worth a shit to defeat Boxer.

I get it Pagan. You're a conservative, I get that too. Just saying I'd take her over Boxer any day.Even with her faults. We really don't have very many good conservatives to chose from. I'm no Whitman fan either.I never wanted to see her win the nomination, just for the fact she supports AB32 a devastating job killing energy hiking bill. I absolutely despise the invirowhackos in this state. Boxer supports them blindly.

Quote from: Pagan on September 29, 2010, 04:39:54 PM
Well why don't you post something to counter it then?

All I see from anyone here are personal opinions along with insults from certain clueless ignorant admin.

So post something other than your "personal" opinion eh?

http://conservativepoliticalforum.com/index.php?topic=55.msg1171#msg1171

Quote from: Indy on September 29, 2010, 04:40:59 PM
I get it Pagan. You're a conservative, I get that too. Just saying I'd take her over Boxer any day.Even with her faults. We really don't have very many good conservatives to chose from. I'm no Whitman fan either.I never wanted to see her win the nomination, just for the fact she supports AB32 a devastating job killing energy hiking bill. I absolutely despise the invirowhackos in this state. Boxer supports them blindly.

And I agree, but again my jab was at the pathetic state the the GOP has become.  The power is in the primary's and people should focus on getting good strong Conservatives on the ballet

Quote from: Pagan on September 29, 2010, 04:39:54 PM
Well why don't you post something to counter it then?
All I see from anyone here are personal opinions along with insults from certain clueless ignorant admin.
So post something other than your "personal" opinion eh?

I'll be happy to............

CLAIM #1: WORKER LAYOFFS

Under Fiorina's Leadership, HP Nearly Doubled Its Number Of Employees Worldwide:

During Fiorina's Tenure As CEO, Hewlett-Packard Increased Its Workforce By Tens Of Thousands Of Employees Worldwide. (Hewlett-Packard, SEC Form 10-K, 2005; Hewlett-Packard, SEC Form 10-K, 1999)

· In October 2005, HP Had Approximately 150,000 Employees Worldwide. (Hewlett-Packard, SEC Form 10-K, 2005)

· In October 1999, HP Had Approximately 84,400 Employees Worldwide. (Hewlett-Packard, SEC Form 10-K, 1999)

HP's Employment At The End Of Carly's Tenure Even Exceeded The 145,000 Combined Workforce At HP And Compaq At The Time Of The Merger. "Based on both companies' last four reported fiscal quarters, the new HP would have approximate pro forma assets of $56.4 billion, annual revenues of $87.4 billion and annual operating earnings of $3.9 billion. It would also have operations in more than 160 countries and over 145,000 employees." (Benjamin Pimentel, "Wall Street Frowns On HP-Compaq Deal," San Francisco Chronicle, 9/4/01)

Since Fiorina's Departure From HP, The Company Has Increased Its Number Of Layoffs:

Shortly After Fiorina's Departure, CEO Mark Hurd Announced An Additional 14,500 Job Cuts, Which Represented 10 Percent Of HP's Workforce. "Hewlett-Packard Co. said Tuesday that it would cut 14,500 jobs, or 10% of its workforce, as the storied computer and printer maker slashes costs to remain competitive in an industry that it helped create. The restructuring, which will be implemented over the next 18 months, is expected to reduce annual expenses at the iconic Silicon Valley company by $1.9 billion. HP employs 58,000 people in the United States — about 9,000 of them in the Bay Area." (Terril Yue Jones, "Hewlett-Packard, A Pioneer In Technology, To Cut 14,500 Jobs," Los Angeles Times, 7/20/05)

"One Of Hurd's First Acts As CEO, In Flush Times, Was To Whack 15,200 Jobs – Then 10% Of The Workforce." (Adam Lashinsky, "Mark Hurd's Moment," Fortune, 3/3/09)

HP Cut A Total Of Nearly 40,000 Jobs After Fiorina Left The Company. "[H]urd will have cut nearly 40,000 jobs in two big rounds of layoffs since he took the job." (Jordan Robertson, "HP Chief Hurd Got Pay Valued At $34 Million In '08," The Associated Press, 1/21/09)

HP Recently Announced 9,000 Additional Layoffs. "Hewlett-Packard Co., the world's largest information-technology company, plans to lay off about 9,000 employees as it tries to cut costs..." (Barbara Ortutay, "Hewlett-Packard To Cut 9K Jobs In Services Unit," The Associated Press, 6/1/10)

Fiorina's HP Layoffs Were Considered Necessary To The Company's Future:

When Fiorina Announced The HP Layoffs, Analysts Claimed That The Cuts Would Help "Invigorate The Company." "Some analysts believe the job cuts could invigorate the company, which has been losing market share in printers, servers and PCs. 'We think it will be a catalyst for adding a sense of urgency to the business, which HP needs,' said Craig Ellis, an analyst with Salomon Smith Barney." (Therese Poletti, "Hewlett-Packard To Cut 6,000 Jobs," San Jose Mercury News, 7/27/01)

CLAIM #2: CARLY'S HP RECORD

Under Fiorina's Leadership, HP's Revenues More Than Doubled:

During Fiorina's Tenure As CEO, Hewlett-Packard's Revenues More Than Doubled. (Hewlett-Packard, HP Annual Report, 2000; Hewlett-Packard, SEC Form 10-K, 2006)

· In 1999, HP's Revenues Were Approximately $42.4 Billion. (Hewlett-Packard, HP Annual Report, 2000)

· In 2005, HP's Revenues Were Approximately $86.7 Billion. (Hewlett-Packard, SEC Form 10-K, 2006)

Since Carly Fiorina's Departure From Hewlett-Packard, Experts Have Credited Her With Making HP A Stronger Company:

Industry Experts Have Claimed That HP "Desperately Needed Someone Like" Fiorina. "But while analysts praise Hurd's low-key style, many are quick to credit Fiorina for laying the groundwork. She was the biggest proponent of changing HP's culture, and although her hard-charging style ultimately worked against her, HP desperately needed someone like her, said Roger L. Kay, president of Endpoint Technologies Associates." (Rachel Konrad, "HP Is Hurd's Now, But Ousted Fiorina Gets Some Credit For Revival," The Associated Press, 8/17/06)

Fortune Noted That HP Can Thank Fiorina For The Company's "Breadth And Depth." "HP recently forecast that sales for 2009 would decline as much as 5%, but Hurd still is projecting a nearly 6% rise in profits. He's using the company's financial strength its balance sheet boasts $11 billion in cash to make acquisitions, like the $13 billion purchase of massive but flabby info-tech consultant EDS in 2008. He's also pushing the notion that customers need not shop anywhere else for their computing, printing, and tech services needs. He can thank his predecessor, Carly Fiorina, for HP's breadth and depth. She was the architect of the tumultuous 2001 acquisition of Compaq." (Adam Lashinsky, "Mark Hurd's Moment," Fortune, 3/16/09)

Endpoint Technologies Associates President Roger Kay: "Carly Deserves Far More Credit Than She Got." "Carly did a lot of the shaking up, which was necessary to get the hidebound organization liquefied again and that left the field open for Mark Hurd to reorganize. The ironic postscript here is that Carly deserves far more credit than she got. ... The idea that the organization needed to be shaken up and be less technology-centric and more customer-centric turned out to be spot on." (Rachel Konrad, "HP Is Hurd's Now, But Ousted Fiorina Gets Some Credit For Revival," The Associated Press, 8/17/06)

Former Intel Chairman Craig Barrett On Carly: "[Carly] Deserves Great Credit For Her Actions While CEO Of HP." "Carly Fiorina, the architect of the HP-Compaq merger and now a candidate for U.S. Senate, deserves great credit for her actions while CEO of HP. She understood the challenges of the marketplace, the dangers of the status quo, and the need for companies to move forward with bold actions to ensure their success." (Craig Barrett, Op-Ed, "History Straightens Out Facts," San Jose Mercury News, 4/4/10)

BARRETT: "Today, HP is a stronger company because of Carly Fiorina's bold action." (Craig Barrett, Op-Ed, "History Straightens Out Facts," San Jose Mercury News, 4/4/10)

The Compaq Merger Has Been Credited With Driving HP's Subsequent Success:

The Compaq Merger Helped HP Surge Past IBM And Dell To Become The World's Number One PC Firm In 2007. "But despite all the naysaying, despite an ugly proxy fight, despite Fiorina's nasty ouster, it looks as if the HP-Compaq merger that closed five years ago this week (May 3) might not have been so dumb after all. Last year, HP surpassed IBM Corp. as the world's biggest technology firm, based on revenue. It also passed Dell Inc. to become the world's No. 1 PC firm." (Bob Keefe and Dan Zehr, "Five Years After Maligned Merger, Hewlett-Packard Prospers," The Atlanta Journal-Constitution, 4/29/07)

The Consensus Regarding The HP-Compaq Merger Is That "The Merger Was Indeed A Good Idea." "In 2001, when Hewlett-Packard's then-CEO Carly Fiorina announced that the technology giant proposed to merge with Compaq Computer Corp., she set off a firestorm of controversy. ... Stockholders as well as the media were fiercely divided on the wisdom of the move. Not any longer. Six years later, after Fiorina's acrimonious 2005 departure – which many attributed largely to the merger – and the promotion of former NCR head Mark Hurd to lead HP, the consensus is that the merger was indeed a good idea." ("Compaq-HP Merger Was Right After All According To Stanford Business School Research," Business Wire, 7/16/07)

According To A Stanford Business School Study, The HP-Compaq Merger "Was Right After All." ("Compaq-HP Merger Was Right After All According To Stanford Business School Research," Business Wire, 7/16/07)

Technology Research Analysts Have Claimed That The Compaq Merger Placed HP "In The Right Place At The Right Time." "According to technology researcher IDC Corp., HP's global shipments of PCs grew by a whopping 28 percent in the first quarter of this year, while Dell's dropped about 7 percent. In the U.S., HP's gains on Dell were even more pronounced. While the PC business is fluid, HP is 'in the right place at the right time,' said IDC analyst Richard Shim. 'If you look at all the favorable trends in the PC industry right now, HP is in the middle of them.'" (Bob Keefe and Dan Zehr, "Five Years After Maligned Merger, Hewlett-Packard Prospers," The Atlanta Journal-Constitution, 4/29/07)

Former Intel Chairman Craig Barrett On The Compaq Merger: "An Unqualified Success." "The merger of HP and Compaq was an unqualified success. It helped transform HP into the largest computer manufacturer in the world and provided a strong foundation for HP's current success under its very capable management team."

In 2009, HP CFO Cathie Lesiak Touted The Compaq Merger At An HP Securities Analyst Meeting. LESIAK: "Here you have a graphical representation of our acquisitions going back to 2001. And building on one of the points Mark made earlier, you can see the strong alignment between our inorganic investments and our company strategy. For example, Compaq's enhanced our scale in industry standard hardware." (Hewlett-Packard CFO Cathie Lesjak, Remarks At A Securities Analyst Meeting, 9/24/09)

Since Their Acquisition Of Compaq In 2002, HP Has Outperformed Dell And The Dow Jones Industrial Index:

Comparison Of HP, Dell, And The Dow Jones Industrial Index:

(Yahoo! Finance Website, finance.yahoo.com, Accessed 9/14/10)

Quote from: Pagan on September 29, 2010, 04:36:07 PM
Really?

So
28,000 – The number of HP workers laid off under Carly Fiorina's tenure.
50% – The decline in HP's stock value during Fiorina's 5 ½ years on the job.
8 – The number of times Fiorina missed profit expectations in her 21 financial quarters at HP; this was more than double the combined misses of IBM and Dell during the same period.

And HP paying $42 million to fire her for Incompetence is just an "Opinion" ???

OK  ::)

Yet no mention that nearly all of the industry was suffering from the Dot Com bust, which is exactly why she was hired.
And her laying off of some of the highest and over paid workers in the industry, which she promptly hired back under contract saving millions, all the while doubling sales over he 5 year stint.

You see, there is more to the story when you remove the bias.
Personally, I don't like the woman, but I will speak the truth when it is deserved.

I even have some good things to say about Pelosi, but I haven't learned to control my gag reflex yet. ;)

Quote from: taxed on September 29, 2010, 04:41:11 PM
http://conservativepoliticalforum.com/index.php?topic=55.msg1171#msg1171

That's your "opinion" you posted.

I've been in the Corporate world for sometime now and my "opinon" stands of Fiorina.  Which BTW is nowhere being a minority "opinion" as expressed by others in the Business world as I have posted.

So are you saying her being canned for incompetence by HP was wrong, that she didn't trash the company?  If so please post some credible links to back up your opinion.

Quote from: Pagan on September 29, 2010, 05:01:53 PM
That's your "opinion" you posted.

I've been in the Corporate world for sometime now and my "opinon" stands of Fiorina.  Which BTW is nowhere being a minority "opinion" as expressed by others in the Business world as I have posted.

So are you saying her being canned for incompetence by HP was wrong, that she didn't trash the company?  If so please post some credible links to back up your opinion.

So, your "logic" says me asking questions about your points is me giving an opinion?  Please clarify that.

Quote from: AmericanFlyer on September 29, 2010, 04:58:38 PM
I'll be happy to............

Now AF, you stop posting facts, this is an opinion (emotional) thread.
There is only room for feelings, or truth! ;) ;D ;D ;D

Quote from: Solar on September 29, 2010, 04:17:39 PM
Still don't see any evidence of your claims.
And again, no opinion piece, just the facts.

All Pagan does is throw bombs and make emotional judgments. This guy is a drag on the forum Solar. Just think of all the people who have not enjoyed their experience in the forum today precisely because of this guy. He is a cancer and he will lower the board. When it happens don't say I didn't try to warn you.

Quote from: taxed on September 29, 2010, 05:04:37 PM
So, your "logic" says me asking questions about your points is me giving an opinion?  Please clarify that.

Really?

Quote from: taxed on September 29, 2010, 04:16:49 PM
Maybe I should type slower so your brain can process my question better.  I too have plenty of insight of HP, and what you say is correct.  She wasn't going to win World's Best CEO anytime soon.

However, my question to YOU is HOW is she a bad CEO?

Well HP, it's investors and the majority of the business world thought so which I also happen to agree with

Quote from: taxed on September 29, 2010, 04:16:49 PM- Laying off employees doesn't mean she is a bad CEO.  Do you understand that?

Well as a result of your Incompetence which she was fired for it does

Quote from: taxed on September 29, 2010, 04:16:49 PM- The stock decline -- why did that happen?  Do you know?

Read above comment, same here applies

Quote from: taxed on September 29, 2010, 04:16:49 PM- Missing "the number" from Wall Street doesn't make her a bad CEO, and in fact, I would argue the other way a lot of times.  I am not sure you really understand what it means to make the number, and what some CEOs do to bring up their EPS.  Educate yourself on that, please.

As above

Quote from: taxed on September 29, 2010, 04:16:49 PM- Being arrogant, etc., doesn't make someone a bad CEO.

As above

Quote from: taxed on September 29, 2010, 04:16:49 PM- Getting a $42mm payout doesn't make you a crappy CEO.

Doesn't equate as a qualification, just shows you were able to get a Golden Parachute.

Quote from: taxed on September 29, 2010, 04:16:49 PM- Regarding Compaq, whose decision was it to push the Compaq deal?

So are you saying the Compaq merger wasn't her baby?

Quote from: taxed on September 29, 2010, 04:16:49 PMAgain, I am not a Fiorina fan either, but if you are going to trash the lady, PLEASE do everyone a favor and back up your position.  Otherwise, you are just parroting corporate gossip.

I've posted credible sources with the same opinion, care to provide something to show that her firing was unjust?

So I guess HP's stock jumping 6.9% the day it was announced that she was canned was due to her "brilliant" leadership then eh?

Quote from: Solar on September 29, 2010, 05:09:38 PM
Now AF, you stop posting facts, this is an opinion (emotional) thread.
There is only room for feelings, or truth! ;) ;D ;D ;D

My previous posting was the Super Bowl 60-yard field goal in overtime, the NBA finals game seven 3-pointer at the buzzer, the game seven Stanley Cup wraparound goal in overtime, and the game 7 bottom of the 9th walk-off grand slam home run.

What else is there to say, except to tell Pagan to STAY IN HIS OWN LANE? 

Quote from: taxed on September 29, 2010, 04:38:11 PM
This is what I call "The Un-Realist loop".  He will keep posting the same stuff, then terminate his post with a  ::)

And this is exactly what I was trying to tell
Solar. It's not a matter of debating Pagan because Pagan does not debate. He insults, he attacks strawmen arguments and never deals in details.