First off, I am certainly not well versed in the Bible. I do not, at present, subscribe to a specific religion, and my moral compass is good order until I find otherwise.
I have some very good friends who are devout Christians. I have a moderate science and medical background, so I was perplexed about a few things regarding the Bible which they could not, at the time answer questions which were plaguing me. Possibly someone would be kind enough to shed some light on a few things.
My friend told me that since the timeline of the creation of dinosaurs against what he interprets as the timeline in God's creation of man in the Bible have such a disparity between them, he simply cannot believe that dinosaurs existed. I asked him what he thought the fossils actually were. He believes that they were "planted" there. I didn't proceed any further with my questioning, but have heard that some people think they were planted here by God to test our faith. What is your belief, and how do you interpret the Bible's timeline?
I had another question about Adam and Eve. I asked if he thought Eve was the first mother of all mankind. He said that he believed she was. I asked him why then do not all people on earth share the same Mitochondrial DNA, which is always passed along to every person through the mother? He was unsure, but would look into it. I have heard that God supposedly created other humans as well as Adam and Eve. Is this mentioned in the Bible? Any thoughts on this?
One more thing that gives me pause to wonder how things occurred...How did Adam and Eve's two male children procreate? Are their wives mentioned?
Please...I mock no religion except the filth of Islam, and attempting to disprove a religion is something I would never do to anyone. But I am inquisitive. I have read some of the Old Testament as well as the New, but not all by any means.
So...any Theists out there who can give me some suggestions and/or theories? Thanks!
Quote from: Traninit on December 09, 2015, 06:59:25 PM
First off, I am certainly not well versed in the Bible. I do not, at present, subscribe to a specific religion, and my moral compass is good order until I find otherwise.
I have some very good friends who are devout Christians. I have a moderate science and medical background, so I was perplexed about a few things regarding the Bible which they could not, at the time answer questions which were plaguing me. Possibly someone would be kind enough to shed some light on a few things.
My friend told me that since the timeline of the creation of dinosaurs against what he interprets as the timeline in God's creation of man in the Bible have such a disparity between them, he simply cannot believe that dinosaurs existed. I asked him what he thought the fossils actually were. He believes that they were "planted" there. I didn't proceed any further with my questioning, but have heard that some people think they were planted here by God to test our faith. What is your belief, and how do you interpret the Bible's timeline?
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Your friend is a nut.
QuoteI had another question about Adam and Eve. I asked if he thought Eve was the first mother of all mankind. He said that he believed she was. I asked him why then do not all people on earth share the same Mitochondrial DNA, which is always passed along to every person through the mother? He was unsure, but would look into it. I have heard that God supposedly created other humans as well as Adam and Eve. Is this mentioned in the Bible? Any thoughts on this?
One more thing that gives me pause to wonder how things occurred...How did Adam and Eve's two male children procreate? Are their wives mentioned?
Look up Lilith in the bible.
QuotePlease...I mock no religion except the filth of Islam, and attempting to disprove a religion is something I would never do to anyone. But I am inquisitive. I have read some of the Old Testament as well as the New, but not all by any means.
So...any Theists out there who can give me some suggestions and/or theories? Thanks!
You and I are of like mind on this.
Quote from: Traninit on December 09, 2015, 06:59:25 PM
First off, I am certainly not well versed in the Bible. I do not, at present, subscribe to a specific religion, and my moral compass is good order until I find otherwise.
I have some very good friends who are devout Christians. I have a moderate science and medical background, so I was perplexed about a few things regarding the Bible which they could not, at the time answer questions which were plaguing me. Possibly someone would be kind enough to shed some light on a few things.
My friend told me that since the timeline of the creation of dinosaurs against what he interprets as the timeline in God's creation of man in the Bible have such a disparity between them, he simply cannot believe that dinosaurs existed. I asked him what he thought the fossils actually were. He believes that they were "planted" there. I didn't proceed any further with my questioning, but have heard that some people think they were planted here by God to test our faith. What is your belief, and how do you interpret the Bible's timeline?
I had another question about Adam and Eve. I asked if he thought Eve was the first mother of all mankind. He said that he believed she was. I asked him why then do not all people on earth share the same Mitochondrial DNA, which is always passed along to every person through the mother? He was unsure, but would look into it. I have heard that God supposedly created other humans as well as Adam and Eve. Is this mentioned in the Bible? Any thoughts on this?
One more thing that gives me pause to wonder how things occurred...How did Adam and Eve's two male children procreate? Are their wives mentioned?
Please...I mock no religion except the filth of Islam, and attempting to disprove a religion is something I would never do to anyone. But I am inquisitive. I have read some of the Old Testament as well as the New, but not all by any means.
So...any Theists out there who can give me some suggestions and/or theories? Thanks!
About the timeline:
Einstein figured out that time is almost infinitely flexible,
not rigid, the way we experience it.
An object moving through space at nearly the speed of light
moves through time at almost a dead stop.
About the mitochondrial DNA:
That has been looked into. What was found was that
humans' mitochondrial DNA is very similar
(but not completely identical, due to mutations along the way)
in three groups: African, European and Asian.
This corresponds to the wives of Noah's three sons,
Ham, Shem, and Japheth,
who the Bible identifies as the fathers of Africans, Europeans, and Asians.
First of all, to answer the most basic questions about Genesis and the Creation Story, we need to look at the New Testament, and the explanation of Jesus telling us how God talks to His people. In the Gospel of Matthew, 13:10-11
QuoteThe disciples approached him and said, "Why do you speak to them in parables?" He said to them in reply, "Because knowledge of the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven has been granted to you, but to them it has not been granted."
Scripture goes on to explain how even God's prophets could hear the truth but not understand. So Jesus, who is God, speaks to us in parables so that we can understand, why would we expect God the Father to do differently? As such, the Creation Story, which is God's Word, is parable, not literal. The literal truth could have been represented, but how many people of the 6th and 7th millenia BC could understand astrophysics?
The explanation of Adam, Eve, and where did Cain's and Seth's wives come from is even easier.
Genesis 1:26-28
QuoteThen God said: Let us make human beings in our image, after our likeness. Let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, the birds of the air, the tame animals, all the wild animals, and all the creatures that crawl on the earth.
God created mankind in his image; in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.
God blessed them and God said to them: Be fertile and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it. Have dominion over the fish of the sea, the birds of the air, and all the living things that crawl on the earth.
Clearly, he created men and women in the plural. He created MANKIND in His image.
Later in Genesis we are given the story of Adam and Eve, the Garden of Eden, and the forbidden fruit. So what is so unique about Adam and Eve that they have their own, separate creation story? Because it was through the lineage of Adam and Eve that God brought us the Savior, Jesus Christ. Adam was Noah's 7XGreat grandfather, Noah was Abraham's 8XGreat grandfather, and Abraham was Joseph's 41XGreat grandfather. (Even though the Holy Spirit - ie: GOD - was Jesus' father, the human lineage is traced through Joseph.)
Adam and Eve also represent the beginnings of Man's troubles in our relationship with God, Humanity's descent into sin, which necessitated the Savior.
Quote from: zewazir on December 09, 2015, 08:36:12 PM
Later in Genesis we are given the story of Adam and Eve, the Garden of Eden, and the forbidden fruit. So what is so unique about Adam and Eve that they have their own, separate creation story? Because it was through the lineage of Adam and Eve that God brought us the Savior, Jesus Christ. Adam was Noah's 7XGreat grandfather, Noah was Abraham's 8XGreat grandfather, and Abraham was Joseph's 41XGreat grandfather. (Even though the Holy Spirit - ie: GOD - was Jesus' father, the human lineage is traced through Joseph.)
Mary and Joseph share common ancestors, at least a few generations back.
So the genealogy still applies.
I'm a Christian who looks at it from the Erich Von Daniken perspective...
There's a 150-million or more galaxies out there. And the particle-realms are equally extensive.
Neutral-atoms didn't learn to ionize themselves.
There's a process I'm missing about male rib-cartilage used to create a female, but something along those lines is probably what happened.
God gave Jesus to us to bring-us-back-online. There's only a 50-year difference between Jesus and Buddha, so there's a possibility that both Wayfarers were the same man, owing to fuzzy chronicling.
Quote from: Solar on December 09, 2015, 07:38:56 PM
Look up Lilith in the bible.
Can't find any "Lilith", but from what I've read, I hope none of Adam's sons procreated with her. I read that extremist feminist groups believe she existed...having deformed children by having sex with the devil and such. Wow! So now I know why they gave the woman who played the "X" of TV's "Kramer" that namesake. Come to think about it, my X should have been named Lilith. :scared:
Quote from: Traninit on December 10, 2015, 02:34:55 PM
Can't find any "Lilith", but from what I've read, I hope none of Adam's sons procreated with her. I read that extremist feminist groups believe she existed...having deformed children by having sex with the devil and such. Wow! So now I know why they gave the woman who played the "X" of TV's "Kramer" that namesake. Come to think about it, my X should have been named Lilith. :scared:
Why was there such a thing as marriage back then, or was it first come first serve. They did not know about DNA back then let alone care about the blood line.
This thread is so "far out" that I don't know where to begin. And since I am pressed for time I probably will pass on this.
It pains me to not get involved but it would take me hours.... which I do not have right now. Maybe later!
Quote from: kroz on December 10, 2015, 04:28:54 PM
This thread is so "far out" that I don't know where to begin. And since I am pressed for time I probably will pass on this.
It pains me to not get involved but it would take me hours.... which I do not have right now. Maybe later!
This I got to see...
(https://conservativepoliticalforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.threadbombing.com%2Fdata%2Fmedia%2F2%2FTHISGONBGUD.gif&hash=cc2ff57ab54db85d5c8fe115380824be80516c31)
I was taught, as a Catholic (I am no longer one), that much of the Old Testament, while true, may not be true in the way we may believe.
First of all, let's understand it has been translated and re-translated countless times.
Second, consider the audience. Things MUST be simplified for the vast majority to understand at all !
For instance, personally I believe in Evolution - and Intelligent Design. I see no conflict.
I believe in Noah, but I believe the Known World may have been flooded, rather that this entire Globe ! And obviously EVERY animal would not include Elephants and Giraffes.
Really Conservative Christians are best appreciated as friends. Respect what they believe. But do not try to change them.
Arguing with them about very firm beliefs will not end well for you or them.
Quote from: Traninit on December 09, 2015, 06:59:25 PM
First off, I am certainly not well versed in the Bible. I do not, at present, subscribe to a specific religion, and my moral compass is good order until I find otherwise.
I have some very good friends who are devout Christians. I have a moderate science and medical background, so I was perplexed about a few things regarding the Bible which they could not, at the time answer questions which were plaguing me. Possibly someone would be kind enough to shed some light on a few things.
My friend told me that since the timeline of the creation of dinosaurs against what he interprets as the timeline in God's creation of man in the Bible have such a disparity between them, he simply cannot believe that dinosaurs existed. I asked him what he thought the fossils actually were. He believes that they were "planted" there. I didn't proceed any further with my questioning, but have heard that some people think they were planted here by God to test our faith. What is your belief, and how do you interpret the Bible's timeline?
I had another question about Adam and Eve. I asked if he thought Eve was the first mother of all mankind. He said that he believed she was. I asked him why then do not all people on earth share the same Mitochondrial DNA, which is always passed along to every person through the mother? He was unsure, but would look into it. I have heard that God supposedly created other humans as well as Adam and Eve. Is this mentioned in the Bible? Any thoughts on this?
One more thing that gives me pause to wonder how things occurred...How did Adam and Eve's two male children procreate? Are their wives mentioned?
Please...I mock no religion except the filth of Islam, and attempting to disprove a religion is something I would never do to anyone. But I am inquisitive. I have read some of the Old Testament as well as the New, but not all by any means.
So...any Theists out there who can give me some suggestions and/or theories? Thanks!
Have you tried typing your questions into Google? Countless others before you have asked these questions. On another forum, the Atheists have taken over their "Religion" forum and they use these questions to mock believers, even though some have provided answers. Atheists are probably the most closed minded religious group you'll ever deal with. You cannot reason with them.
"Christians" are not totally unified on these topics, which is why I said google it. You'll always get different answers.
As far as Adam's sons, remember, Adam lived ALMOST 1,000 years. He had many sons AND DAUGHTERS. Most believe they married one of their sisters. There are other possibilities.
Personally, I do not "pick and choose" what I WANT to believe from the Bible. Peter said ALL OF IT IS THE INSPIRED WORD OF GOD. God is not a liar. Our understanding of what we read may be faulty, but the Book is NOT.
START with the premise that the Bible is the INSPIRED WORD OF GOD.
Quote from: kroz on December 10, 2015, 04:28:54 PM
This thread is so "far out" that I don't know where to begin. And since I am pressed for time I probably will pass on this.
It pains me to not get involved but it would take me hours.... which I do not have right now. Maybe later!
Well, I hope you do take the time. He threw out interesting questions, and while I already know I won't agree with you on everything, I do respect your opinion on these topics and I enjoy debating you on some of these topics.
Quote from: carlb on December 10, 2015, 05:44:27 PM
Have you tried typing your questions into Google? Countless others before you have asked these questions. On another forum, the Atheists have taken over their "Religion" forum and they use these questions to mock believers, even though some have provided answers. Atheists are probably the most closed minded religious group you'll ever deal with. You cannot reason with them.
"Christians" are not totally unified on these topics, which is why I said google it. You'll always get different answers.
As far as Adam's sons, remember, Adam lived ALMOST 1,000 years. He had many sons AND DAUGHTERS. Most believe they married one of their sisters. There are other possibilities.
Personally, I do not "pick and choose" what I WANT to believe from the Bible. Peter said ALL OF IT IS THE INSPIRED WORD OF GOD. God is not a liar. Our understanding of what we read may be faulty, but the Book is NOT.
START with the premise that the Bible is the INSPIRED WORD OF GOD.
Yes, I have Googled these topics as well as my wife. She was raised Catholic, then had a few decades with the Mormon church. Now she has a keen interest, as I do, in the countless variables of theism and spirituality. I know few who don't. Besides, as I stated before, I have great interest in learning the variables of thought from the minds of others...whether it be here, Google or both. Interpretations and theories are all interesting to ponder. In Latin, that doesn't directly correspond to the word "Philosophy" but it's close.
Thank you for your personal insight! :thumbsup:
Quote from: SalemCat on December 10, 2015, 05:12:23 PM
I was taught, as a Catholic (I am no longer one), that much of the Old Testament, while true, may not be true in the way we may believe.
First of all, let's understand it has been translated and re-translated countless times.
Second, consider the audience. Things MUST be simplified for the vast majority to understand at all !
For instance, personally I believe in Evolution - and Intelligent Design. I see no conflict.
I believe in Noah, but I believe the Known World may have been flooded, rather that this entire Globe ! And obviously EVERY animal would not include Elephants and Giraffes.
Really Conservative Christians are best appreciated as friends. Respect what they believe. But do not try to change them.
Arguing with them about very firm beliefs will not end well for you or them.
"For instance, personally I believe in Evolution - and Intelligent Design. I see no conflict."
Gotcha. I'm close behind you. Why is it unthinkable that evolution was not part of the equation of creation of mankind...even if it was in his image? With considering various Biblical time factor interpretations, I don't see why an intelligence couldn't have specifically designed what most scientists believe took billions of years for the process to go from the "primordial soup" to Homo Sapiens.
Quote from: Traninit on December 10, 2015, 06:52:36 PM
"For instance, personally I believe in Evolution - and Intelligent Design. I see no conflict."
Gotcha. I'm close behind you. Why is it unthinkable that evolution was not part of the equation of creation of mankind...even if it was in his image? With considering various Biblical time factor interpretations, I don't see why an intelligence couldn't have specifically designed what most scientists believe took billions of years for the process to go from the "primordial soup" to Homo Sapiens.
You're free to believe what you like. But IF YOU BELIEVE THE BIBLE IS THE WORD OF GOD, and I do, you WILL NOT believe in the atheistic fairy tale called "evolution." Those who try to twist the Scriptures to what they would like to believe, will fall for anything. Choose one or the other, but those two explanations of the origin of things cannot coexist.
Quote from: Traninit on December 09, 2015, 06:59:25 PM
First off, I am certainly not well versed in the Bible. I do not, at present, subscribe to a specific religion, and my moral compass is good order until I find otherwise.
I have some very good friends who are devout Christians. I have a moderate science and medical background, so I was perplexed about a few things regarding the Bible which they could not, at the time answer questions which were plaguing me. Possibly someone would be kind enough to shed some light on a few things.
My friend told me that since the timeline of the creation of dinosaurs against what he interprets as the timeline in God's creation of man in the Bible have such a disparity between them, he simply cannot believe that dinosaurs existed. I asked him what he thought the fossils actually were. He believes that they were "planted" there. I didn't proceed any further with my questioning, but have heard that some people think they were planted here by God to test our faith. What is your belief, and how do you interpret the Bible's timeline?
I had another question about Adam and Eve. I asked if he thought Eve was the first mother of all mankind. He said that he believed she was. I asked him why then do not all people on earth share the same Mitochondrial DNA, which is always passed along to every person through the mother? He was unsure, but would look into it. I have heard that God supposedly created other humans as well as Adam and Eve. Is this mentioned in the Bible? Any thoughts on this?
One more thing that gives me pause to wonder how things occurred...How did Adam and Eve's two male children procreate? Are their wives mentioned?
Please...I mock no religion except the filth of Islam, and attempting to disprove a religion is something I would never do to anyone. But I am inquisitive. I have read some of the Old Testament as well as the New, but not all by any means.
So...any Theists out there who can give me some suggestions and/or theories? Thanks!
Thank you for your interest in learning more about God and His creation.
First of all, the Bible says that God only created Adam and Eve and told them to be fruitful and multiply. They obeyed this command and multiplied (probably prolifically).
Keep in mind that God's creation was perfect in every respect. The human bloodline was totally pure and free from any mutations. Therefore it was perfectly fine for siblings to procreate without negative effects in their offspring.
Mutations may have (just a guess) started in the sixth chapter of Genesis when the Bible says the sons of God came into the daughters of men. This was an evil that God detested and led to God destroying the earth with a great flood which I will cover later. However I will not explore that any further at this time.
As far as evolution is concerned, Scripture says that God created each species "after their own kind". That was the DNA. It separated not only the animal kingdom but also humans from animals. When it came to creating man scripture says that God created man "in His own image." That is key to humanity. Why? Because God is a triune being and so are we. We have a body, soul, and spirit. God has a Godhead, Son, and Spirit. We are unique from the animal kingdom because they do not possess a soul... only a body and spirit. Our soul is what is eternal.
I will also add that the "day/age" theory of creation is rendered moot because God clearly defined a "day" in scripture. He said, "Evening and morning was the first day, Evening and morning was the second day," etc. He could not be more clear about it.
Evolutionists have never been able to find the "missing link" that evades them... because it does not exist. However, there are mutations and adaptations which have occurred within the species. Humans have also experienced some variations over time. Skin color is just one of them.
Now, what about the dinosaurs? Archeologists have excavated wooly mammoths in the Arctic Circle which have undigested tropical foliage in their stomachs. How is that possible? It could be evidence of a sudden weather event that took place rapidly.
To better understand this let's go back to Genesis chapter one. Verses 6-10 tells us that God created an expanse in the midst of the waters. Some of the waters were below the heavens and some were above the heavens. This likely created a hyperbolic atmosphere on the face of the earth which caused plants to flourish and men to live very long lives... hundreds of years. At this point in time there was no rain. The plants were watered by a mist that rose up from the ground.
It was not until the great flood of Noah that the canopy of water above the heavens was released and a great deluge flooded the world. There was tremendous upheaval on the face of the earth. There were drastic temperature changes and the world would never again be the same after that time. It is likely at this time that the wooly mammoths were frozen in the Arctic. Also the dinosaurs disappeared at that time. Up until that time the entire earth was likely tropical and that is why there are tropical plants in their stomachs. That is when the polls froze and the atmosphere changed. The protective canopy was gone. Also, a huge amount of strata was created immediately. That is the strata by which scientists date things today. Mountains were moved and canyons were created.
The three sons of Noah and their wives became the new lineage of mankind. This was after the bloodline had been tainted by the evil physical unions discussed in chapter six above. So they each had different DNAs with mutations. They ended up becoming the three basic ethnicities of the world. The descendants of Ham populated Africa, Japeth's descendants populated Europe and Shem's offspring were Semites and Asians.
I'm not sure if this answers your question but please feel free to continue asking questions. As I have time I will respond to your questions.
I hope I covered everything you asked.
Quote from: Traninit on December 10, 2015, 06:14:55 PM
Yes, I have Googled these topics as well as my wife. She was raised Catholic, then had a few decades with the Mormon church. Now she has a keen interest, as I do, in the countless variables of theism and spirituality. I know few who don't. Besides, as I stated before, I have great interest in learning the variables of thought from the minds of others...whether it be here, Google or both. Interpretations and theories are all interesting to ponder. In Latin, that doesn't directly correspond to the word "Philosophy" but it's close.
Thank you for your personal insight! :thumbsup:
You and your wife both are remarkable.
I also respect, and hope to learn from, the beliefs of
nearly all religions.
Except Islam. Why ? It is not a religion. It was created, deliberately, as a Political Cult. It has never been a sincere attempt to better mankind.
Quote from: SalemCat on December 12, 2015, 03:44:26 PM
You and your wife both are remarkable.
I also respect, and hope to learn from, the beliefs of nearly all religions.
Except Islam. Why ? It is not a religion. It was created, deliberately, as a Political Cult. It has never been a sincere attempt to better mankind.
You can learn from Islam also.
Quote from: walkstall on December 12, 2015, 05:55:00 PM
You can learn from Islam also.
Yep...just as you can learn from being mugged on the street!
Quote from: Traninit on December 16, 2015, 06:54:24 AM
Yep...just as you can learn from being mugged on the street!
(https://conservativepoliticalforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.covcath.org%2Fuploaded%2Fphotos%2FMiscellaneous%2FClip_Art_II%2FBingo.gif&hash=bddac5e96298b32969056dee5505d569691136ed)
Quote from: kroz on December 12, 2015, 12:22:03 PM
Thank you for your interest in learning more about God and His creation.
First of all, the Bible says that God only created Adam and Eve and told them to be fruitful and multiply. They obeyed this command and multiplied (probably prolifically).
Keep in mind that God's creation was perfect in every respect. The human bloodline was totally pure and free from any mutations. Therefore it was perfectly fine for siblings to procreate without negative effects in their offspring.
Mutations may have (just a guess) started in the sixth chapter of Genesis when the Bible says the sons of God came into the daughters of men. This was an evil that God detested and led to God destroying the earth with a great flood which I will cover later. However I will not explore that any further at this time.
As far as evolution is concerned, Scripture says that God created each species "after their own kind". That was the DNA. It separated not only the animal kingdom but also humans from animals. When it came to creating man scripture says that God created man "in His own image." That is key to humanity. Why? Because God is a triune being and so are we. We have a body, soul, and spirit. God has a Godhead, Son, and Spirit. We are unique from the animal kingdom because they do not possess a soul... only a body and spirit. Our soul is what is eternal.
I will also add that the "day/age" theory of creation is rendered moot because God clearly defined a "day" in scripture. He said, "Evening and morning was the first day, Evening and morning was the second day," etc. He could not be more clear about it.
Evolutionists have never been able to find the "missing link" that evades them... because it does not exist. However, there are mutations and adaptations which have occurred within the species. Humans have also experienced some variations over time. Skin color is just one of them.
Now, what about the dinosaurs? Archeologists have excavated wooly mammoths in the Arctic Circle which have undigested tropical foliage in their stomachs. How is that possible? It could be evidence of a sudden weather event that took place rapidly.
To better understand this let's go back to Genesis chapter one. Verses 6-10 tells us that God created an expanse in the midst of the waters. Some of the waters were below the heavens and some were above the heavens. This likely created a hyperbolic atmosphere on the face of the earth which caused plants to flourish and men to live very long lives... hundreds of years. At this point in time there was no rain. The plants were watered by a mist that rose up from the ground.
It was not until the great flood of Noah that the canopy of water above the heavens was released and a great deluge flooded the world. There was tremendous upheaval on the face of the earth. There were drastic temperature changes and the world would never again be the same after that time. It is likely at this time that the wooly mammoths were frozen in the Arctic. Also the dinosaurs disappeared at that time. Up until that time the entire earth was likely tropical and that is why there are tropical plants in their stomachs. That is when the polls froze and the atmosphere changed. The protective canopy was gone. Also, a huge amount of strata was created immediately. That is the strata by which scientists date things today. Mountains were moved and canyons were created.
The three sons of Noah and their wives became the new lineage of mankind. This was after the bloodline had been tainted by the evil physical unions discussed in chapter six above. So they each had different DNAs with mutations. They ended up becoming the three basic ethnicities of the world. The descendants of Ham populated Africa, Japeth's descendants populated Europe and Shem's offspring were Semites and Asians.
I'm not sure if this answers your question but please feel free to continue asking questions. As I have time I will respond to your questions.
I hope I covered everything you asked.
Wow, Kroz! Much to digest, and way beyond my scope of understanding. Still too many "holes" (in my opinion) within your text, but you have some great theories which I won't even begin to question. Thanks much...very intriguing and insightful! :thumbsup:
Quote from: Traninit on December 16, 2015, 06:54:24 AM
Yep...just as you can learn from being mugged on the street!
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :thumbsup:
Quote from: Solar on December 16, 2015, 07:08:41 AM
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :thumbsup:
Did not take a rock to fall on him. :thumbsup:
Quote from: Traninit on December 16, 2015, 07:04:05 AM
Wow, Kroz! Much to digest, and way beyond my scope of understanding. Still too many "holes" (in my opinion) within your text, but you have some great theories which I won't even begin to question. Thanks much...very intriguing and insightful! :thumbsup:
Thank you, Traninit. I welcome you to point out the holes in my post. It is good for me to understand your thinking.
Quote from: kroz on December 16, 2015, 08:53:32 AM
Thank you, Traninit. I welcome you to point out the holes in my post. It is good for me to understand your thinking.
Nah, your "holes" are just my lack of knowledge or prudent interpretation. I know when to step down! :smile:
All the best to you.
Quote from: Traninit on December 16, 2015, 01:53:50 PM
Nah, your "holes" are just my lack of knowledge or prudent interpretation. I know when to step down! :smile:
All the best to you.
As I reread my post I noticed a glaring error. I obviously meant hyperbaric atmosphere instead of hyperbolic. My bad. :rolleyes:
There is one other odd but interesting verse that could help us better understand geographical phenomenon that has puzzled scientists.
Genesis chapter 10 has a long genealogical record of early mankind. But in verse 25 it makes an interesting revelation. It says,
"And two sons were born to Eber, the name of the one was Peleg,
for in his days the earth was divided, and his brother;s name was Joktan"
It is possible that this interesting statement may explain the phenomenon we call the continental drift.
God has an amazing way of keeping us scientifically informed. :wink:
Quote from: kroz on December 16, 2015, 03:38:07 PM
As I reread my post I noticed a glaring error. I obviously meant hyperbaric atmosphere instead of hyperbolic. My bad. :rolleyes:
There is one other odd but interesting verse that could help us better understand geographical phenomenon that has puzzled scientists.
Genesis chapter 10 has a long genealogical record of early mankind. But in verse 25 it makes an interesting revelation. It says,
"And two sons were born to Eber, the name of the one was Peleg, for in his days the earth was divided, and his brother;s name was Joktan"
It is possible that this interesting statement may explain the phenomenon we call the continental drift.
God has an amazing way of keeping us scientifically informed. :wink:
Quote"And two sons were born to Eber, the name of the one was Peleg, for in his days the earth was divided, and his brother;s name was Joktan"
So is there another earth out there some place? :popcorn:
Quote from: walkstall on December 16, 2015, 03:47:26 PM
So is there another earth out there some place? :popcorn:
No, of course not.
As I said, this division was probably the continents we have today. In the beginning there was likely only one land mass. But at a point in time God caused a geological event that split the land mass into sections. That is why we see what looks like corresponding shoreline patterns between the continents. That is why scientists call it a continental drift. It does look like the land drifted apart.
God seems to give us a clue as to when that happened.
Quote from: kroz on December 16, 2015, 04:16:53 PM
No, of course not.
As I said, this division was probably the continents we have today. In the beginning there was likely only one land mass. But at a point in time God caused a geological event that split the land mass into sections. That is why we see what looks like corresponding shoreline patterns between the continents. That is why scientists call it a continental drift. It does look like the land drifted apart.
God seems to give us a clue as to when that happened.
It did say "earth" not land! :popcorn:
Quote from: walkstall on December 16, 2015, 04:21:37 PM
It did say "earth" not land! :popcorn:
Yes because it was a worldwide event. Earth can be synonymous with dirt or land. Genesis 1:10 says that God called the dry land earth, and the gathering of the waters He called seas.
The earth as known up until that time dramatically changed. How? It does not explain but we can contemplate the earth as we know it today and the land masses as they exist and potentially coordinate to one another. In Genesis 1 it simply said that God separated the land from the waters. Likely one large body of water called seas and one large land mass called earth.
In Genesis 10 that all seems to have changed!
We can logically assume that there were no divisions in the land mass prior to this time.
Quote from: kroz on December 16, 2015, 03:38:07 PM
As I reread my post I noticed a glaring error. I obviously meant hyperbaric atmosphere instead of hyperbolic. My bad. :rolleyes:
There is one other odd but interesting verse that could help us better understand geographical phenomenon that has puzzled scientists.
Genesis chapter 10 has a long genealogical record of early mankind. But in verse 25 it makes an interesting revelation. It says,
"And two sons were born to Eber, the name of the one was Peleg, for in his days the earth was divided, and his brother;s name was Joktan"
It is possible that this interesting statement may explain the phenomenon we call the continental drift.
God has an amazing way of keeping us scientifically informed. :wink:
Hyperbaric? Yes, that's exactly the mistake I had in mind! (sarc)
Quote from: Traninit on December 16, 2015, 04:55:52 PM
Hyperbaric? Yes, that's exactly the mistake I had in mind! (sarc)
There is another potential reference to the divided waters above and below the heavens.
It is in Isaiah 40:21-22.
"Do you not know? Have you not heard? Has it not been declared to you from the beginning? Have you not understood from the foundations of the earth?
It is He who sits above the vault of the the earth, and its inhabitant are like grasshoppers,
Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain
And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in."
This tent analogy is a likely reference to the canopy of waters above the heavens.
The KJV of the Bible (King James) says this verse in an interestingly different way.
Isaish 40:22
It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
A likely reference to the spherical shape of the earth.
Those flat earth folks were crazy! :laugh:
Quote from: kroz on December 16, 2015, 05:42:58 PM
The KJV of the Bible (King James) says this verse in an interestingly different way.
Isaish 40:22
It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
A likely reference to the spherical shape of the earth.
Those flat earth folks were crazy! :laugh:
Yep. God describes the earth as though viewing it from space. In Job He describes the earth as, "hanging on nothing."
The God haters have no idea how advanced this RRVEALED knowledge was. It couldn't even be understood until fairly recently.
I think a lot of end time prophet is that way. As we go to through it, THEN the words will fall into place.
The Bible says 'big fish', but everybody refers to a whale swallowing Jonah... which are land-mammals who 'evolved' back into the sea. Some species still have fur.
The Bible's a sacred-text, but it's not comprehensive.
God tells Jonah to go tell the Assyrians to stop acting badly. So Jonah turns-into a whiner and runs the opposite-direction, to the Mediterranean. The elephant-in-the-room is that God should've told them Himself. Otherwise, God's logic would have Him telling someone-more-dependable to go find Jonah and tell him he's acting badly for not traveling to Nineveh.
The compilers of the Old Testament should've included all of the information. It's believed the chapters were told over campfires for years, before somebody compiled them.
Quote from: kit saginaw on December 18, 2015, 09:06:36 AM
The Bible says 'big fish', but everybody refers to a whale swallowing Jonah... which are land-mammals who 'evolved' back into the sea. Some species still have fur.
The Bible's a sacred-text, but it's not comprehensive.
God tells Jonah to go tell the Assyrians to stop acting badly. So Jonah turns-into a whiner and runs the opposite-direction, to the Mediterranean. The elephant-in-the-room is that God should've told them Himself. Otherwise, God's logic would have Him telling someone-more-dependable to go find Jonah and tell him he's acting badly for not traveling to Nineveh.
The compilers of the Old Testament should've included all of the information. It's believed the chapters were told over campfires for years, before somebody compiled them.
Well kit, I respect your opinions on virtually everything... but I would disagree with much of your post. Please bear with me as I post what Scripture says about itself.
II Timothy 3:16
ALL Scripture is inspired by God ....
I Peter 1:20-21
But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of One's own interpretation, for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.
Keep in mind that the only scripture available at the time of this writing was the Old Testament in its entirety. The New Testament had yet to be completed.
God has always used men to accomplish His will on earth.
Romans 10:15 says:
..how shall they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring glad tidings of good things!"
God sent Jonah to Nineveh because He chose to make Jonah an instrument of His will. He was not to tell them to "stop acting badly". He was to tell them to repent of their sins. Not exactly the same thing. You can stop a behavior without repenting from it.
You said that God should have told them Himself. How do you propose that He do that? A booming voice from the sky? That is not the way God works. He uses men and women as He speaks to their hearts to carry His message to mankind. To the extent that we are obedient God will reward us at the Judgement seat of Christ.
You have said that "It is believed the chapters were told over campfires for years before somebody compiled them."
Really? What is your source? Did you hear it around a campfire? If this is true, why would you call it a "sacred text"? That makes no sense to me. We have already read that ALL scripture is inspired by God.
Also, you have complained that the OT should be more comprehensive.
Well my friend, God gave us everything He believed we needed to know to accomplish His will for us.
I would never question the mind of God. In the scripture I find everything I need to know to live my life to His glory.
But you are correct..... there is no mention of a whale in the book of Jonah. :wink:
Quote from: kroz on December 18, 2015, 01:15:59 PM
You have said that "It is believed the chapters were told over campfires for years before somebody compiled them."
Really? What is your source? Did you hear it around a campfire? If this is true, why would you call it a "sacred text"? That makes no sense to me. We have already read that ALL scripture is inspired by God.
The campfire, caravan-fire, etc., was where 'community'-stories were told in the ancient days. It would've been the equivalent of
prime-time television. -Singing storytelling included. Told in 'third person' form.
'First person' would lack the necessary
"ummph" of truth.
At church-camp, pastors took turns telling Bible stories to us at the nightly campfire. It's the ideal way to convey them because we'd
take the story's messages directly to bed with us, presently. A thousand years before Christ, the planet's cultures were practicing this. -Till one culture decided to write all the stories down. I'm referring more specifically to
Genesis.
Great response to my post, k. We agree the Bible is
sacred. I just wish it was a tad more concise.
One of my pastors said that Jesus often told stories over the campfire. :wink:
Quote from: kroz on December 16, 2015, 05:42:58 PM
The KJV of the Bible (King James) says this verse in an interestingly different way.
Isaish 40:22
It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
A likely reference to the spherical shape of the earth.
Those flat earth folks were crazy! :laugh:
"the circle of the earth"
Just saw that one. Great catch. I would say you're being humble stating it is a "likely" reference to the spherical shape of the earth. Seems pretty literal to me.
Quote from: kit saginaw on December 18, 2015, 03:37:14 PM
The campfire, caravan-fire, etc., was where 'community'-stories were told in the ancient days. It would've been the equivalent of prime-time television. -Singing storytelling included. Told in 'third person' form.
'First person' would lack the necessary "ummph" of truth.
At church-camp, pastors took turns telling Bible stories to us at the nightly campfire. It's the ideal way to convey them because we'd take the story's messages directly to bed with us, presently. A thousand years before Christ, the planet's cultures were practicing this. -Till one culture decided to write all the stories down. I'm referring more specifically to Genesis.
Great response to my post, k. We agree the Bible is sacred. I just wish it was a tad more concise.
One of my pastors said that Jesus often told stories over the campfire. :wink:
Okay kit, I love a campfire story as much as the next guy! :laugh:
Jesus DID tell parables around the campfire! Good reference!
I went to church camp also and we told stories. And we discussed scripture as the inspired word of God.
The first five books of the Bible which the Jews call the Pentateuch were almost certainly written by Moses. He was a highly educated man and wrote prolifically. There was no need for dependency upon oral communication or tradition. God revealed much directly to Moses!
We know the authors of most of the remaining books of the Bible. The author usually reveals his name to the reader. They are all written in the Hebrew tongue except for parts of Daniel which were in Aramaic and some of it written by King Nebuchadnezzar himself. The rest of the book was written by Daniel.
Samuel wrote some of the books. David and Solomon wrote some of the books. Ezra wrote Chronicles. And the prophets authored the books with their own names. All of these authors were men of knowledge and led by the Spirit of God.
All of these books were translated into Greek prior to the birth of Christ. The Greek translation was called the Septuagint. It was extremely accurate to the ancient manuscripts which have been found by archeologists.
My point is that that no " one culture" decided to write down the scriptures. Men specifically appointed by God wrote His revelation to mankind. It is critical to understand that God was totally in control of the entire process. Nothing was left to chance.
The same can be said for the Council of Trent when they canonized the scriptures. God left nothing to chance.
BTW, we took our kids to the little church in Trent, Italy where the scriptures were canonized.
The scriptures are only as strong as their weakest link. There are no weak links.
Thanks for dialoguing with me on this! :wink:
Quote from: Traninit on December 18, 2015, 03:49:50 PM
"the circle of the earth"
Just saw that one. Great catch. I would say you're being humble stating it is a "likely" reference to the spherical shape of the earth. Seems pretty literal to me.
It is, but the Atheists would argue that it DOESN'T say "sphere", but, like the other pagan cultures, thet viewed the earth as a "plate" where you could fall off the edge. They say it's talking about a DISK, and not a ball. But in these End Times, in the space age, we now see the earth the way GOD described it.
(https://conservativepoliticalforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ff00.inventorspot.com%2Fimages%2Fearthrise.img_assist_custom.jpg&hash=5b564dbade68df30a62daf5eda25b84f82d02e67)
Quote from: carlb on December 20, 2015, 04:03:25 PM
It is, but the Atheists would argue that it DOESN'T say "sphere", but, like the other pagan cultures, thet viewed the earth as a "plate" where you could fall off the edge. They say it's talking about a DISK, and not a ball. But in these End Times, in the space age, we now see the earth the way GOD described it.
(https://conservativepoliticalforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ff00.inventorspot.com%2Fimages%2Fearthrise.img_assist_custom.jpg&hash=5b564dbade68df30a62daf5eda25b84f82d02e67)
Po-tate-o, po-tat-o, Toe-mate-o, Toe-maat-o...
Yeppers, "Circle" works for me. :smile:
Quote from: carlb on December 20, 2015, 04:03:25 PM
It is, but the Atheists would argue that it DOESN'T say "sphere",
but, like the other pagan cultures, they viewed the earth as a "plate" where you could fall off the edge.
They say it's talking about a DISK, and not a ball.
But in these End Times, in the space age, we now see the earth the way GOD described it.
Maybe ancient Hebrew didn't have a different word for "sphere"
as opposed to "circle."
Quote from: Traninit on December 10, 2015, 02:34:55 PM
Can't find any "Lilith", but from what I've read, I hope none of Adam's sons procreated with her. I read that extremist feminist groups believe she existed...having deformed children by having sex with the devil and such. Wow! So now I know why they gave the woman who played the "X" of TV's "Kramer" that namesake. Come to think about it, my X should have been named Lilith. :scared:
The bible says that Able went off to the land of "Nod" where he procreated. Obviously if one is to believe this, there were people created other than Adam and Eve. In fact, the bible says Eve was created from one of Adan's ribs. A mere afterthought.
Buddha lived between the 4th and 6th centuries, BCE, and not during Christ's time which began according to the modern calendar around 1 CE.
I do not attempt to convert anyone to my way of thinking. That is only what it is. My way of thinking, not necessarily yours.
Quote from: Traninit on December 10, 2015, 02:34:55 PM
Can't find any "Lilith", but from what I've read, I hope none of Adam's sons procreated with her. I read that extremist feminist groups believe she existed...having deformed children by having sex with the devil and such. Wow! So now I know why they gave the woman who played the "X" of TV's "Kramer" that namesake. Come to think about it, my X should have been named Lilith. :scared:
Frasier's wife in the show of the same name was named Lilith as well, and rightfully so. :lol:
Here's another take on the issue.
http://www.bitterwaters.com/Lilith_in_Bible.html
Quote from: Charliemyboy on January 01, 2016, 07:45:58 AM
Buddha lived between the 4th and 6th centuries, BCE, and not during Christ's time which began according to the modern calendar around 1 CE.
I do not attempt to convert anyone to my way of thinking. That is only what it is. My way of thinking, not necessarily yours.
Well, there is right and wrong, truth and error, and in this case your "way of thinking" is right. Facts are facts. Buddha was not really a "religious" leader anyway, but a philosopher.
Quote from: Charliemyboy on January 01, 2016, 07:40:52 AM
The bible says that Able went off to the land of "Nod" where he procreated. Obviously if one is to believe this, there were people created other than Adam and Eve. In fact, the bible says Eve was created from one of Adan's ribs. A mere afterthought.
It would be helpful if you would quote chapter and verse when you think you are quoting the Bible.
Actually you are incorrect.
If you would care to check your Bible you will find in Genesis 4:16 that Cain went out from the presence of the Lord and settled in the land of Nod. (This was after he had killed his brother Abel.)
He likely took his wife with him to this foreign land. There is no indication that he married in Nod.
Once again I will state that Adam and Eve had many children. Adam lived for 800 years. We assume Eve lived approximately the same life span. They could have had hundreds of children. Those children married one another. The blood line was pure.
After Abel was killed Adam and Eve had another son who they named Seth. At that time Adam was already 130 years old. So it is very likely that Cain and Abel both had procreated many offspring themselves by then.
With the long life spans during the hyperbaric atmosphere period of time the population grew rapidly. It was not until the great flood in Genesis 7 that the life spans decreased. They no longer enjoyed the protection of the water canopy which circled the upper atmosphere of the earth.
IMHO it would be presumptuous to claim that God created any people apart from what He has told us. That is a leap of faith that is unnecessary.
The Bible does talk about dinosaurs. By name and it even describes them.
Too many people spend too much time trying to prove matters of faith. The "how" and the "when" is much less important than the "what." What if the story of the prodigal son never happened? Is it any less true?
Quote from: Justaguy on January 10, 2016, 03:59:29 AM
Too many people spend too much time trying to prove matters of faith. The "how" and the "when" is much less important than the "what." What if the story of the prodigal son never happened? Is it any less true?
Yes. If it NEVER happened it is not "true." But we know it was a "story" used to teach a principle. You can LNOW that by simply READING it.
Quote from: Chosen Daughter on January 08, 2016, 10:05:30 PM
The Bible does talk about dinosaurs. By name and it even describes them.
I believe POSSIBLY, BUT NOT DEFINITELY.
Got a scripture to back it up?
Quote from: Justaguy on January 10, 2016, 03:59:29 AM
Too many people spend too much time trying to prove matters of faith. The "how" and the "when" is much less important than the "what." What if the story of the prodigal son never happened? Is it any less true?
It isn't true. It is a parable used to teach a truth.
Letters from loving, forgiving christians
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gW7607YiBso
Quote from: je_freedom on December 09, 2015, 08:10:05 PM
About the timeline:
Einstein figured out that time is almost infinitely flexible,
not rigid, the way we experience it.
An object moving through space at nearly the speed of light
moves through time at almost a dead stop.
About the mitochondrial DNA:
That has been looked into. What was found was that
humans' mitochondrial DNA is very similar
(but not completely identical, due to mutations along the way)
in three groups: African, European and Asian.
This corresponds to the wives of Noah's three sons,
Ham, Shem, and Japheth,
who the Bible identifies as the fathers of Africans, Europeans, and Asians.
Mitchondrial DNA actually told us, that all Humans do in fact stem from an "eve" of sorts.
By that I mean, our entire species according to the DNA, originated with one single female.
Here's an article on it: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/08/100817122405.htm
As for dinosaurs, clearly they predated us, by millions of years. The Bible doesn't address this one way or another.
Lastly about the timelines, it's always a good thing to remember. Time doesn't exist for God. It's a creation of God. Like everything else in our universe. Besides God wouldn't be much of a God at all, if he were limited by mere physics and was stuck in linear time as we "normally" are.