Re: Who America needs

[daidalos]

In the scriptures we are told this.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Don't let Mr. Trump deceive you too folks.

That said, do we really want a POTUS that's self deluded like that? With Obozo being self delusional as well.

Have we not had enough of self delusional fools running our government?

I for one sure have.

[admin]

In the scriptures we are told this
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Don't let Mr. Trump deceive you too folks.

That said, do we really want a POTUS that's self deluded like that? With Obozo being self delusional as well.

Have we not had enough of self delusional fools running our government?

I for one sure have.

Knock it off!!! You want to discuss scripture? You know where to take it.

[zewazir]

Knock it off!!! You want to discuss scripture? You know where to take it.

What the heck?  A person cannot even mention scripture without going to the religion forum?  I thought we were conservatives here, who understand the wall of separation between government and religion is to protect religion from government, not vice versa.

[Chosen Daughter]

 

What the heck?  A person cannot even mention scripture without going to the religion forum?  I thought we were conservatives here, who understand the wall of separation between government and religion is to protect religion from government, not vice versa.

OK this is the problem with monitoring people's opinions.  You nailed it.  Protect religion from government.  We as Americans have a long history of great Americans who didn't dare speak without giving reference to God.  It is woven into our politics.

More recently and what makes this so relevant is that Trump himself is using Christianity to sell himself to Iowa.  So the comments made in this thread are relevant to the conversation.  If Trump says I don't need forgiveness he is denying Christianity and the reason for a Savior.  Yet he is going to church and courting Evangelicals.  Yes we are going to call him out for it.  It is relevant.  God is relevant to many of our great Founding Fathers and politicians.  I don't like being sent to religious room if I mention a scripture.  Would you send Cruz to the religious forum for mentioning scripture?

[Solar]

What the heck?  A person cannot even mention scripture without going to the religion forum?  I thought we were conservatives here, who understand the wall of separation between government and religion is to protect religion from government, not vice versa.

We are a TEA forum, that has a focus on a certain aspect of this Nation, particularly shrinking govt. (Remove it's revenue, it withers)
It is not a social movement, nor is TEA a religious movement, it's sole existence is to return control govt to the people and restore our freedoms.
Why is that so damned hard to understand?
Is it not bad enough we have OWS, BLM bullshit to contend with as it stands, and you want to throw religion into the mix with it's own millennium worth of unresolved bull shit?

So lets try and keep the focus on castrating govt and leave the extraneous BS to other forums.
There's a reason we have other forums such as: Financial, Survival, Repair and Maintenance Support.
These are distractions from the main goal of this forum, and an agenda set forth in this forum with a single focus on shrinking govt.
Anyone that can't seem to follow this basic premise knows where the door is.

I'm done arguing this point, from here on out, the mods are instructed to delete posts, no more courtesies moving them to the religion forum, they're gone.
If it becomes an repetitious issue, the person will be unceremoniously removed from the forum without explanation.
That's how serious I am about moving the TEA agenda forward?

[zewazir]

We are a TEA forum, that has a focus on a certain aspect of this Nation, particularly shrinking govt. (Remove it's revenue, it withers)
It is not a social movement, nor is TEA a religious movement, it's sole existence is to return control govt to the people and restore our freedoms.
Why is that so damned hard to understand?
Is it not bad enough we have OWS, BLM bullshit to contend with as it stands, and you want to throw religion into the mix with it's own millennium worth of unresolved bull shit?

So lets try and keep the focus on castrating govt and leave the extraneous BS to other forums.
There's a reason we have other forums such as: Financial, Survival, Repair and Maintenance Support.
These are distractions from the main goal of this forum, and an agenda set forth in this forum with a single focus on shrinking govt.
Anyone that can't seem to follow this basic premise knows where the door is.

I'm done arguing this point, from here on out, the mods are instructed to delete posts, no more courtesies moving them to the religion forum, they're gone.
If it becomes an repetitious issue, the person will be unceremoniously removed from the forum without explanation.
That's how serious I am about moving the TEA agenda forward?

Fine. Have at it. You want to focus on YOUR individual, narrow, one-topic definition of TEA, that is your choice. There are several million TEA advocates all over the United States, and I can guarantee you less than one in 10,000 would agree with you that TEA is about one and only one thing, despite its moniker.

You say that the focus is trimming back federal authoritarianism, and then choose to ignore one of the main problems with current authoritarianism of the federal government is the deliberate quashing of traditional Christian values. Or have you forgotten about Obamacare forcing NUNS to provide insurance which provides for abortions? Or how about the way they have taken the SCOTUS decision on gay marriage to mean Christians must disobey God in order to obey the federal government? Yet is someone does the mere mention of core Christian values in relation to a political topic, its OFF WITH THEIR POSTS!!!  Clue: WE are not the ones who are mixing politics with religion - it is the very government which we, as practicing Christians need to trim back. Religion has BECOME a part of politics because of the actions of the government, not because of the actions of Christians.

What are you afraid of?  Remember: If you deny me before men, I will deny you before my father in Heaven." I will NOT deny Him. Therefore I guess I will just have to risk being banned.

BTW: did you miss the fact that the original post was quoting Cruz, who in turn was clearly advocating a return to Christian principles in our society?  Seems Cruz's suggestion that we need to return to a moral core that is the topic of the thread, How can we NOT mention religion when it's the topic of the thread?

[Solar]

Fine. Have at it. You want to focus on YOUR individual, narrow, one-topic definition of TEA, that is your choice. There are several million TEA advocates all over the United States, and I can guarantee you less than one in 10,000 would agree with you that TEA is about one and only one thing, despite its moniker.

You say that the focus is trimming back federal authoritarianism, and then choose to ignore one of the main problems with current authoritarianism of the federal government is the deliberate quashing of traditional Christian values. Or have you forgotten about Obamacare forcing NUNS to provide insurance which provides for abortions? Or how about the way they have taken the SCOTUS decision on gay marriage to mean Christians must disobey God in order to obey the federal government? Yet is someone does the mere mention of core Christian values in relation to a political topic, its OFF WITH THEIR POSTS!!!  Clue: WE are not the ones who are mixing politics with religion - it is the very government which we, as practicing Christians need to trim back. Religion has BECOME a part of politics because of the actions of the government, not because of the actions of Christians.

What are you afraid of?  Remember: If you deny me before men, I will deny you before my father in Heaven." I will NOT deny Him. Therefore I guess I will just have to risk being banned.

BTW: did you miss the fact that the original post was quoting Cruz, who in turn was clearly advocating a return to Christian principles in our society?  Seems Cruz's suggestion that we need to return to a moral core that is the topic of the thread, How can we NOT mention religion when it's the topic of the thread?

TEA Taxed Enough Already?
Unless we can castrate govt, you can kiss religion good bye.
The sole focus of this forum is TEA, to cloud the waters with causes not relevant to the main issue at hand, alienates others to the cause.
Why is this so damn difficult to understand?

As for Cruz, he said nothing about Christians, though I believe his message drives the non religious away. Everyone knows he believes in God, but what he's doing is preaching to the choir, people that would have already voted for him regardless.
It's true, if we turn away from God, this nation is doomed, but one step at a time, lets capture govt first and the only way that will be accomplished, is if we include every belief and not alienate the non believers by forcing them to join a limited focused cause.

[zewazir]

TEA Taxed Enough Already?
Unless we can castrate govt, you can kiss religion good bye.
The sole focus of this forum is TEA, to cloud the waters with causes not relevant to the main issue at hand, alienates others to the cause.
Why is this so damn difficult to understand?

As for Cruz, he said nothing about Christians, though I believe his message drives the non religious away. Everyone knows he believes in God, but what he's doing is preaching to the choir, people that would have already voted for him regardless.
It's true, if we turn away from God, this nation is doomed, but one step at a time, lets capture govt first and the only way that will be accomplished, is if we include every belief and not alienate the non believers by forcing them to join a limited focused cause.

I am fully aware of what the TEA moniker stands for.  Unlike you, however, I am also aware that the TEA movement stands for a whole lot more. TEA is the tent under which modern American conservatives are gathering, due to the unfortunate fact that the party which gives lip service to our principles invariably betrays them as soon as the last ballot is counted.

You say one step at a time, which is not a bad strategy. There are issues which need to be put aside until we get a better beachhead established.  But you tell God that He needs to take a back seat while we get our secular concerns in order and I can pretty much guarantee you, we WILL FAIL.

I refer to the quote in the OP from which this segregated thread came from:

I sought for the greatness and genius of America
in her commodious harbors and her ample rivers, and it was not there;
in her fertile fields and boundless prairies, and it was not there;
in her rich mines and her vast world commence, and it was not there.
Not until I went into the churches of America
and heard her pulpits aflame with righteousness
did I understand the secret of her genius and power.

[/b][/i]

What made this nation great was our individual and societal dedication to God. That dedication has been thrust aside, minimalized, and is in the process of being utterly buried under humanism. The First Amendment was written to protect our ability to express religion freely, NOT, as claimed by the humanist progressives we laughingly call liberals, NOT to secularize our government.  Unless we get back to the GODLY principles which at one time made this a great nation, nothing else we can do will matter.

Also, the 18+ trillion dollar national debt pretty much demonstrates that cutting taxes as a central focus of our movement is not going to do SQUAT about reigning in an out-of-control federal government.  We could cut taxes to zero and they'll just go on their merry way, borrowing from the future, writing blank checks on the federal reserve, converting SSI revenues intp treasury notes so the funds can be added to the general budget, and writing more invasive, controlling, unconstitutional laws, executive orders, and regulations.

In short, TEA moniker not withstanding, we can not afford to make our movement a one-topic, one issue (taxes) and expect to achieve the changes we need.  And that's the practical argument.

The additional argument is that God will not sustain us if we put Him in second place.

[Solar]

I am fully aware of what the TEA moniker stands for.  Unlike you, however, I am also aware that the TEA movement stands for a whole lot more. TEA is the tent under which modern American conservatives are gathering, due to the unfortunate fact that the party which gives lip service to our principles invariably betrays them as soon as the last ballot is counted.

Nope, it's exactly what it states and nothing more, and that's the beauty of the movement, no individual group or movement can usurp it's meaning or attach itself top it.

You say one step at a time, which is not a bad strategy. There are issues which need to be put aside until we get a better beachhead established.  But you tell God that He needs to take a back seat while we get our secular concerns in order and I can pretty much guarantee you, we WILL FAIL.

I refer to the quote in the OP from which this segregated thread came from:[/b][/i]

What made this nation great was our individual and societal dedication to God. That dedication has been thrust aside, minimalized, and is in the process of being utterly buried under humanism. The First Amendment was written to protect our ability to express religion freely, NOT, as claimed by the humanist progressives we laughingly call liberals, NOT to secularize our government.  Unless we get back to the GODLY principles which at one time made this a great nation, nothing else we can do will matter.

Belief in God is faith, faith alone is not religion which is a whole other discussion.
Point being the Founders did not specify any particular religion, which is why TEA is a stand alone movement so as not to be associated with any one particular belief.
Why not make it a whites only movement while we're at it, considering it was whites that founded this nation?
Because as I've said hundreds of times, the broader the movement, the more chance of alienating your base.
Not everyone believes in our God, but everyone agrees that we have an oppressive govt.

Also, the 18+ trillion dollar national debt pretty much demonstrates that cutting taxes as a central focus of our movement is not going to do SQUAT about reigning in an out-of-control federal government.  We could cut taxes to zero and they'll just go on their merry way, borrowing from the future, writing blank checks on the federal reserve, converting SSI revenues intp treasury notes so the funds can be added to the general budget, and writing more invasive, controlling, unconstitutional laws, executive orders, and regulations.

In short, TEA moniker not withstanding, we can not afford to make our movement a one-topic, one issue (taxes) and expect to achieve the changes we need.  And that's the practical argument.

The additional argument is that God will not sustain us if we put Him in second place.

Again, first things first. Getting control of govt is priority number one, social issues will be able to function under a weakened govt.
Let TEA achieve it's objective first, then, and only then can religion work out it's own issues amongst others beliefs.
If Christians want a theocracy, that's their struggle, but wrangling control of govt comes first.

[zewazir]

Where was ANY thing mentioned about a theocracy?  You are sounding like a fracking liberal. Talk about your strawman arguments.

ONLY what YOU say TEA is, that's what TEA is. That will be a HUGE surprise to the TEA organization in Bozeman, MT.

And again, if you truly think reducing taxes is the ay to gain control of a government that simply spends regardless of revenues, you are as deluded as the morons carrying Hillary signs.

Fuck it. You are as oppressive as the government.  I'm gone.

[Solar]

Where was ANY thing mentioned about a theocracy?  You are sounding like a fracking liberal. Talk about your strawman arguments.

ONLY what YOU say TEA is, that's what TEA is. That will be a HUGE surprise to the TEA organization in Bozeman, MT.

And again, if you truly think reducing taxes is the ay to gain control of a government that simply spends regardless of revenues, you are as deluded as the morons carrying Hillary signs.

Fuck it. You are as oppressive as the government.  I'm gone.

]
My the animosity. There was no straw man and only your emotional reaction and inability for debate got in the way.
The point is, Christians have their own issues to contend with, and involving TEA alienates nonbelievers to the cause, a cause that guts govt at the roots.
Of course just cutting off funds isn't enough, we need people like Cruz in office, as well as like minded Legislators.
People willing to kill of large portions of govt, from EPA to DOE and more.
All of these are killing this country, and the last thing we need is groups trying to usurp TEA for their own personal agenda, so TEA aligns with nothing bit it's own ideal and agenda, one of corralling Govt back to a manageable entity.

So let me get this straight. You want to use TEA to push religion, and I'm being oppressive?

[daidalos]

We are a TEA forum, that has a focus on a certain aspect of this Nation, particularly shrinking govt. (Remove it's revenue, it withers)
It is not a social movement, nor is TEA a religious movement, it's sole existence is to return control govt to the people and restore our freedoms.
Why is that so damned hard to understand?
Is it not bad enough we have OWS, BLM bullshit to contend with as it stands, and you want to throw religion into the mix with it's own millennium worth of unresolved bull shit?

So lets try and keep the focus on castrating govt and leave the extraneous BS to other forums.
There's a reason we have other forums such as: Financial, Survival, Repair and Maintenance Support.
These are distractions from the main goal of this forum, and an agenda set forth in this forum with a single focus on shrinking govt.
Anyone that can't seem to follow this basic premise knows where the door is.

I'm done arguing this point, from here on out, the mods are instructed to delete posts, no more courtesies moving them to the religion forum, they're gone.
If it becomes an repetitious issue, the person will be unceremoniously removed from the forum without explanation.
That's how serious I am about moving the TEA agenda forward?

Solar excuse me, but that is unfair. To start with I didn't bring up the scriptures, others did. In discussing Donald claiming he's alright with God, and doesn't sin.

I simply pointed out what the Bible states. Since when did that become against the rules? Or require you to post in the religion forum?

[daidalos]

Nope, it's exactly what it states and nothing more, and that's the beauty of the movement, no individual group or movement can usurp it's meaning or attach itself top it.
Belief in God is faith, faith alone is not religion which is a whole other discussion.
Point being the Founders did not specify any particular religion, which is why TEA is a stand alone movement so as not to be associated with any one particular belief.
Why not make it a whites only movement while we're at it, considering it was whites that founded this nation?
Because as I've said hundreds of times, the broader the movement, the more chance of alienating your base.
Not everyone believes in our God, but everyone agrees that we have an oppressive govt.
Again, first things first. Getting control of govt is priority number one, social issues will be able to function under a weakened govt.
Let TEA achieve it's objective first, then, and only then can religion work out it's own issues amongst others beliefs.
If Christians want a theocracy, that's their struggle, but wrangling control of govt comes first.

While it is true that not all Americans believe in our God, or the Christian God solar.

Every last one of these so called conservative candidates, claim they in fact do.

As that's the case, and as the op/thread in this case, is that Trump WAS spouting off about his own Christian theology. Trying to get the "evangelical" or CHRISTIAN vote.

I think it's perfectly legitimate to point out what he has to say, and what he's actually done, versus what the Christian scriptures explicitly state.

Given the scriptures are the foundation, and origin, and (supposed to be at least) the final say of all Christian theology.

My statement was absolutely germane to the topic. Sorry you or your "admin" whomever that is, didn't like my reply, but it's not my fault that what Trump said, is according to the evangelical theology he himself has claimed to follow, a bald faced lie. And something we are warned, not to buy into. According to the very religion Trump himself is claiming he follows.

As for a "theocracy".

That's anathema to me personally. And I would remind you, as a Constitutionalist of the several times and several threads here, when I myself have spoken out against that very thing. When some others, who claim Christianity, have taken the position that we should legislate Christian theology as law in the U.S.

But like it or not, everyone of these candidates, including Cruz himself, have made appeals to the voters, based upon their alleged faith in Christ.

When they do that, should we not compare and contrast what they say and claim, with what the Christian religion's founding document states?

Should we not be, looking at whether they lead a Christian value based life. When they're the one's who are claiming to be Christians?

I mean really, to me not discussing what the Bible states, in reply to a theological statement by a candidate, is like discussing a repeal of the first amendment, without ever looking at what the Constitution states in the first amendment, or why it was put there by the founders in the first place.

To me, it's like discussing ISIS, without ever mentioning the fact that they're mooslimes.

However it's your site, you like Mr. Zuckerberg and his Facebook, can do what you wish too with it. If I don't like it, I'm well aware I am free to go elsewhere.

lf this earns me a banning so be it.

But you won't get an apology from me, for simply stating what the Bible states.

In reply to something a candidate has said about the Christian religion. Or, their belief in it.

Not only that, but since when did it become a TEA value, to attack someone like this, for stating what the Bible says, a direct quote at that, in reply to someone else's comments re: Christianity?

[daidalos]

Never mind, I just saw some things in other threads I hadn't seen before.

I won't post a thing one about religion in the politics forum from now on. Now that I know/see what the sudden "issue" is.

Although I do think that at this point, someone could have just sent me a pm and said, "hey we need ya to post that here, not the Politics forum".

Instead of letting me just stumble on it here tonight the way I did. In fact I saw a thread is there right now.

Which had I not seen this one. I'd have done precisely the same thing in. Go back, see what the founding document (the Bible) says, and go from there.

[Solar]

Never mind, I just saw some things in other threads I hadn't seen before.

I won't post a thing one about religion in the politics forum from now on. Now that I know/see what the sudden "issue" is.

Although I do think that at this point, someone could have just sent me a pm and said, "hey we need ya to post that here, not the Politics forum".

Instead of letting me just stumble on it here tonight the way I did. In fact I saw a thread is there right now.

Which had I not seen this one. I'd have done precisely the same thing in. Go back, see what the founding document (the Bible) says, and go from there.

How is it the entire forum is well aware that posting topics related to specific forums has always been policy and simple etiquette, still you've yet to make the connection?
Ever wondered why we have a war forum, science forum, Religion forum?
Because they aren't freakin political topics!!!