Conservative Political Forum

Well, they'll be hard pressed to find it in the Constitution. :lol:
There's a lot written on the subject, but the fact remains, the First bans the govt, not we the people who are the govt.


The phrase "separation of church and state" appears nowhere in the Constitution, and the Founding Fathers saw nothing wrong with having religion in American culture, according to an expert.

While Congress is prohibited from enacting a state religion, the founding document says nothing about banishing religion from the public square, Professor Michael McConnell told Mark Levin on "Life, Liberty & Levin."

"The words 'separation of church and state' are not in the Constitution... I think this is a shorthand version of what the establishment clause means," he added, noting the passage in the Constitution that reads, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

"It does have a deep history because there were, in the 18th century, prominent writers who openly advocated for a union between church and state. There's actually a famous essay by one of the Bishops in the Church of England by that very title.

"And, our framers did not did not believe in a union between church and state."

The Stanford law professor continued, adding the founders instead wanted to protect against government "control" of religion and that they did not object to symbols of faith being present in the public square.

"This did not mean that the framers believed that the American people should be any less religious than they choose to be," he said.

"It didn't mean that the culture — that there was anything wrong with having religious elements in the culture. What it meant is that we would not have a system in which the government was able to tell us what to believe, was able to control churches, decide what their doctrines, decide who their personnel would be, and so forth."

https://law.stanford.edu/press/constitutional-expert-on-separation-of-church-and-state-framers-said-nothing-wrong-with-religion-in-culture/

It's true that "separation of church and state" isn't in the Constitution, but SCOTUS has ruled that public entities can't show preference for a specific religion, i.e. hanging a cross in a classroom, because that is a form of "establishing".

I'm not aware of an individual being prohibited from exercising their religion.  So, while a classroom can't have a cross hung, a teacher can wear a cross and even pray, on his/her own time, at work.

Interestingly, even tho a federal state church isnt allowed, state level churches are. Several of the original colonies had official state churches.

Not that Im in favor of that but the point is that seperation of church and state has been abused by the left hard, except when it comes to their religion OF the state, their commie state worship.

Quote from: p1tchblack on July 22, 2021, 08:04:29 AMIt's true that "separation of church and state" isn't in the Constitution, but SCOTUS has ruled that public entities can't show preference for a specific religion, i.e. hanging a cross in a classroom, because that is a form of "establishing".

I'm not aware of an individual being prohibited from exercising their religion.  So, while a classroom can't have a cross hung, a teacher can wear a cross and even pray, on his/her own time, at work.

Thing is SCOTUS also one ruled in favor of murder thru abortion as well as in favor of slavery. So we dont look to them for right and wrong.

The left has abused the idea of SCS to the point where they are stopping Christians from properly exercising their religion, which involves celebrating it in the public square. So by not allowing public entities to celebrate and champion our nations founding religion they are in fact arresting the practice of that religion. Remember, nowhere in the constitution does it say all religions are equal.

Quote from: p1tchblack on July 22, 2021, 08:04:29 AMIt's true that "separation of church and state" isn't in the Constitution, but SCOTUS has ruled that public entities can't show preference for a specific religion, i.e. hanging a cross in a classroom, because that is a form of "establishing".

I'm not aware of an individual being prohibited from exercising their religion.  So, while a classroom can't have a cross hung, a teacher can wear a cross and even pray, on his/her own time, at work.

For now...
I think the point being missed here is, that SCOTUS was not actually allowed to address many of the cases it ruled on.
This is thanks to a failed Congress not doing its job.

Quote from: p1tchblack on July 22, 2021, 08:04:29 AMIt's true that "separation of church and state" isn't in the Constitution, but SCOTUS has ruled that public entities can't show preference for a specific religion, i.e. hanging a cross in a classroom, because that is a form of "establishing".

I'm not aware of an individual being prohibited from exercising their religion.  So, while a classroom can't have a cross hung, a teacher can wear a cross and even pray, on his/her own time, at work.

So you oppose the firing of the football coach in Washington state because he prayed on the field?

Quote from: T Hunt on July 22, 2021, 08:14:41 AMThing is SCOTUS also one ruled in favor of murder thru abortion as well as in favor of slavery. So we dont look to them for right and wrong.

The left has abused the idea of SCS to the point where they are stopping Christians from properly exercising their religion, which involves celebrating it in the public square. So by not allowing public entities to celebrate and champion our nations founding religion they are in fact arresting the practice of that religion. Remember, nowhere in the constitution does it say all religions are equal.

SCOTUS is made of people and people are flawed, influenced by outside pressure and make mistakes.

People that are unhappy with the fact that religion can't be taught in schools or that a state capitol can't have a manger scene, don't consider that it could very been a Muslim teacher that's teaching her class and a Muslim Governor who's deciding what is done at the capitol building.

Quote from: p1tchblack on July 22, 2021, 08:31:31 AMSCOTUS is made of people and people are flawed, influenced by outside pressure and make mistakes.

People that are unhappy with the fact that religion can't be taught in schools or that a state capitol can't have a manger scene, don't consider that it could very been a Muslim teacher that's teaching her class and a Muslim Governor who's deciding what is done at the capitol building.

OMG the horror, Muslum teachers? What's next, Black teachers? :rolleyes:

Quote from: p1tchblack on July 22, 2021, 08:31:31 AMSCOTUS is made of people and people are flawed, influenced by outside pressure and make mistakes.

People that are unhappy with the fact that religion can't be taught in schools or that a state capitol can't have a manger scene, don't consider that it could very been a Muslim teacher that's teaching her class and a Muslim Governor who's deciding what is done at the capitol building.

Actually we have considered that and dismissed it as a non issue. You are forgetting that it was christianity that founded this nation, not islam, so you will never have to worry about an islam manger scene, LOL.

Quote from: Solar on July 22, 2021, 08:34:05 AMOMG the horror, Muslum teachers? What's next, Black teachers? :rolleyes:

Right? The local school boards, made up of parents should decide who is and isnt a teacher in their schools. If a muslim community wants muslim teachers at its public school so be it.

Quote from: T Hunt on July 22, 2021, 08:42:29 AMActually we have considered that and dismissed it as a non issue. You are forgetting that it was christianity that founded this nation, not islam, so you will never have to worry about an islam manger scene, LOL.

Right, but if you're going to allow religion in public sector, you have to allow ALL religion in the public sector.

Satanic Sculpture Installed At Illinois Statehouse, Just In Time For The Holidays (https://www.npr.org/2018/12/04/673422143/satanic-sculpture-installed-at-illinois-statehouse-just-in-time-for-the-holidays)

And the government can't discriminate, so if the government recognizes one religion, they have to recognize every religion if someone were to request it.

If you're going to allow teachers to teach about their preferred religion, then you have to allow all teachers, satanists, atheists, etc to teach their beliefs.

Quote from: supsalemgr on July 22, 2021, 08:18:27 AMSo you oppose the firing of the football coach in Washington state because he prayed on the field?

Why won't you answer my question?

Quote from: supsalemgr on July 22, 2021, 08:18:27 AMSo you oppose the firing of the football coach in Washington state because he prayed on the field?

In my opinion, it's no different than a teacher leading prayer, during school time, with specific students.  He was asked to stop doing it.  He refused and was fired. I don't see an issue with his firing. If the kids wanted to meet at his house, off campus and outside of a school-sanctioned activity and pray, I'd have no issue with it.

Quote from: p1tchblack on July 22, 2021, 08:04:29 AMIt's true that "separation of church and state" isn't in the Constitution, but SCOTUS has ruled that public entities can't show preference for a specific religion, i.e. hanging a cross in a classroom, because that is a form of "establishing".

I'm not aware of an individual being prohibited from exercising their religion.  So, while a classroom can't have a cross hung, a teacher can wear a cross and even pray, on his/her own time, at work.

You mean like closing down churches for the "pandemic"?

Quote from: Possum on July 22, 2021, 09:52:50 AMYou mean like closing down churches for the "pandemic"?

For a variety of reasons, I don't equate religion and church, but that's a separate topic.  I also don't agree with the government being able to shut down businesses and churches, but churches weren't targeted specifically.  All gatherings were shut down.  Again, I don't agree with it and many churches rightfully won the right to reopen by fighting in the courts.

I would like to see SCOTUS rule on the authority of government to shutdown churches.  I think it's BS, personally.

Quote from: p1tchblack on July 22, 2021, 09:16:47 AMIn my opinion, it's no different than a teacher leading prayer, during school time, with specific students.  He was asked to stop doing it.  He refused and was fired. I don't see an issue with his firing. If the kids wanted to meet at his house, off campus and outside of a school-sanctioned activity and pray, I'd have no issue with it.

You just contradicted yourself.

"I'm not aware of an individual being prohibited from exercising their religion.  So, while a classroom can't have a cross hung, a teacher can wear a cross and even pray, on his/her own time, at work."

The football field is his work.

Quote from: supsalemgr on July 22, 2021, 10:59:51 AMYou just contradicted yourself.

"I'm not aware of an individual being prohibited from exercising their religion.  So, while a classroom can't have a cross hung, a teacher can wear a cross and even pray, on his/her own time, at work."

The football field is his work.

A teacher can't, while she's teaching, lead a class in prayer. While she's at lunch or on a break, she can pray. A football coach, while he's coaching, isn't permitted to lead students in prayer.

"Churches were not targeted specifically"

Love how you are always wrong.

California certainly TARGETED churches.

Now I bet you will claim you never heard of it or forgot it.

Quote from: p1tchblack on July 22, 2021, 10:00:49 AMFor a variety of reasons, I don't equate religion and church, but that's a separate topic.  I also don't agree with the government being able to shut down businesses and churches, but churches weren't targeted specifically.  All gatherings were shut down.  Again, I don't agree with it and many churches rightfully won the right to reopen by fighting in the courts.

I would like to see SCOTUS rule on the authority of government to shutdown churches.  I think it's BS, personally.

Quote from: p1tchblack on July 22, 2021, 08:31:31 AMSCOTUS is made of people and people are flawed, influenced by outside pressure and make mistakes.

People that are unhappy with the fact that religion can't be taught in schools or that a state capitol can't have a manger scene, don't consider that it could very been a Muslim teacher that's teaching her class and a Muslim Governor who's deciding what is done at the capitol building.

Democrats have used the "separation of church and state" to stop ANY religious education in schools yet, have rammed through THEIR hateful ideologies like CRT, LGBTQ "tolerance and acceptance" and Evolution. It's funny how when Democrats like something for political reasons, it's not a "separation of church and state" issue but, when mainstream America likes something it is...

Quote from: winterset on July 22, 2021, 11:20:34 AM"Churches were not targeted specifically"

Love how you are always wrong.

California certainly TARGETED churches.

Now I bet you will claim you never heard of it or forgot it.

I'm saying that it wasn't only churches being targeted.  Newsom is a nutjob who is now facing recall because he shutdown everything.

Quote from: p1tchblack on July 22, 2021, 11:18:42 AMA teacher can't, while she's teaching, lead a class in prayer. While she's at lunch or on a break, she can pray. A football coach, while he's coaching, isn't permitted to lead students in prayer.

He was not "leading" students. If they wanted to join him it was their choice.

Sir, you have been exposed. Quit digging.

Quote from: supsalemgr on July 22, 2021, 11:55:50 AMHe was not "leading" students. If they wanted to join him it was their choice.

Sir, you have been exposed. Quit digging.

A teacher could not, during class, call for volunteers to join her in prayer, either.  The violates the Establishment clause.

Quote from: p1tchblack on July 22, 2021, 12:05:07 PMA teacher could not, during class, call for volunteers to join her in prayer, either.  The violates the Establishment clause.

"call for volunteers"

Show me confirmation where he called for volunteers. As I suggested, quit digging.

Quote from: supsalemgr on July 22, 2021, 12:25:33 PM"call for volunteers"

Show me confirmation where he called for volunteers. As I suggested, quit digging.

It wasn't required, so it had to be voluntary.  How would you like me to word it to say he tried to let people know that a voluntary activity was going on?

Quote from: p1tchblack on July 22, 2021, 12:43:35 PMIt wasn't required, so it had to be voluntary.  How would you like me to word it to say he tried to let people know that a voluntary activity was going on?

you are assuming he said anything.

Quote from: p1tchblack on July 22, 2021, 08:57:41 AMRight, but if you're going to allow religion in public sector, you have to allow ALL religion in the public sector.

Satanic Sculpture Installed At Illinois Statehouse, Just In Time For The Holidays (https://www.npr.org/2018/12/04/673422143/satanic-sculpture-installed-at-illinois-statehouse-just-in-time-for-the-holidays)

And the government can't discriminate, so if the government recognizes one religion, they have to recognize every religion if someone were to request it.

If you're going to allow teachers to teach about their preferred religion, then you have to allow all teachers, satanists, atheists, etc to teach their beliefs.

Actually no they dont. Thats not in the constitution. All it demands is that we allow each individual to practice their religion. Anything else is an attempt to add things in that arent there, like the SC did with abortion.

It doesnt say anything about treating the religions themselves the same or allowing them all equally into the private sphere. Only one religion was part of our founding, so that religion will always be celebrated publicly more than any other.

And culturally as well we will always be majority christian. Thats not going to change.

Remember, according to the constitution, all AMERICANS are BORN equal under the LAW.
But there is nothing in the constitution that says all religions are equal, only that each individual has the right to practice it, nor that anyone has the right to be free FROM religion.

So I read in a new book (An American Covenant) that it was a letter between President Jefferson and the Danbary Baptist Church that brought this phrase to life.

In 1947, in the case Everson v. Board of Education, the Supreme Court declared, "The First Amendment has erected a wall between church and state. That wall must be kept high and impregnable. We could not approve the slightest breach." The "separation of church and state" phrase which they invoked, and which has today become so familiar, was taken from an exchange of letters between President Thomas Jefferson and the Baptist Association of Danbury, Connecticut, shortly after Jefferson became President.

https://wallbuilders.com/separation-church-state/

Jefferson believed that the government was to be powerless to interfere with religious expressions for a very simple reason: he had long witnessed the unhealthy tendency of government to encroach upon the free exercise of religion. As he explained to Noah Webster.

Since this was Jefferson's view concerning religious expression, in his short and polite reply to the Danbury Baptists on January 1, 1802, he assured them that they need not fear; that the free exercise of religion would never be interfered with by the federal government. As he explained.

By definition, "natural rights" included "that which the Books of the Law and the Gospel do contain." [10] That is, "natural rights" incorporated what God Himself had guaranteed to man in the Scriptures. Thus, when Jefferson assured the Baptists that by following their "natural rights" they would violate no social duty, he was affirming to them that the free exercise of religion was their inalienable God-given right and therefore was protected from federal regulation or interference.

So clearly did Jefferson understand the Source of America's inalienable rights that he even doubted whether America could survive if we ever lost that knowledge. He queried:

And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure if we have lost the only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? [11]
[/b]
There is a lot of good information in this article.

Toy

Quote from: Solars Toy on July 22, 2021, 02:16:47 PMSo I read in a new book (An American Covenant) that it was a letter between President Jefferson and the Danbary Baptist Church that brought this phrase to life.

In 1947, in the case Everson v. Board of Education, the Supreme Court declared, "The First Amendment has erected a wall between church and state. That wall must be kept high and impregnable. We could not approve the slightest breach." The "separation of church and state" phrase which they invoked, and which has today become so familiar, was taken from an exchange of letters between President Thomas Jefferson and the Baptist Association of Danbury, Connecticut, shortly after Jefferson became President.

https://wallbuilders.com/separation-church-state/

Jefferson believed that the government was to be powerless to interfere with religious expressions for a very simple reason: he had long witnessed the unhealthy tendency of government to encroach upon the free exercise of religion. As he explained to Noah Webster.

Since this was Jefferson's view concerning religious expression, in his short and polite reply to the Danbury Baptists on January 1, 1802, he assured them that they need not fear; that the free exercise of religion would never be interfered with by the federal government. As he explained.

By definition, "natural rights" included "that which the Books of the Law and the Gospel do contain." [10] That is, "natural rights" incorporated what God Himself had guaranteed to man in the Scriptures. Thus, when Jefferson assured the Baptists that by following their "natural rights" they would violate no social duty, he was affirming to them that the free exercise of religion was their inalienable God-given right and therefore was protected from federal regulation or interference.

So clearly did Jefferson understand the Source of America's inalienable rights that he even doubted whether America could survive if we ever lost that knowledge. He queried:

And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure if we have lost the only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? [11]

There is a lot of good information in this article.

Toy

Too bad we didn't include a restriction against govt schooling.
It's this Federal incursion that creates headaches over States Rights.

We have much work to do, undoing the penetration the leftist govt has taken over decades.

Quote from: Solar on July 22, 2021, 02:21:30 PMToo bad we didn't include a restriction against govt schooling.
It's this Federal incursion that creates headaches over States Rights.

We have much work to do, undoing the penetration the leftist govt has taken over decades.

State's should have never taken the federal money.

Quote from: Possum on July 22, 2021, 02:34:35 PMState's should have never taken the federal money.

Exactly!!!
Most States still deliver an oath for teachers to take, even Ca has one, written during the McCarthy era and it still stands to day.
But is it enforced? :rolleyes:

The only way the Fed is allowed to get away with this shit is fear, States want that tax dollar.
This is why I say we have our work cut out for us, undoing all this Fed BS and shrink the Feds reach, and why I believe Trump is the ONLY man who can do it.

Quote from: T Hunt on July 22, 2021, 01:57:48 PMActually no they dont. Thats not in the constitution. All it demands is that we allow each individual to practice their religion. Anything else is an attempt to add things in that arent there, like the SC did with abortion.

It doesnt say anything about treating the religions themselves the same or allowing them all equally into the private sphere. Only one religion was part of our founding, so that religion will always be celebrated publicly more than any other.

And culturally as well we will always be majority christian. Thats not going to change.

Remember, according to the constitution, all AMERICANS are BORN equal under the LAW.
But there is nothing in the constitution that says all religions are equal, only that each individual has the right to practice it, nor that anyone has the right to be free FROM religion.

"All it demands is that we allow each individual to practice their religion."

Correct. Individuals.  Nobody is preventing individuals from practicing their religion.

What isn't permitted is the government establishing religion.  The idea of "establishment" has been ruled to cover a lot of territory.  Establishment is treated like "endorse".  Government isn't permitted to endorse a specific religion.

Quote from: p1tchblack on July 22, 2021, 03:27:38 PM"All it demands is that we allow each individual to practice their religion."

Correct. Individuals.  Nobody is preventing individuals from practicing their religion.

What isn't permitted is the government establishing religion.  The idea of "establishment" has been ruled to cover a lot of territory.  Establishment is treated like "endorse".  Government isn't permitted to endorse a specific religion.

Partially true. Govt is forbidden from interfering in religion.

Quote from: p1tchblack on July 22, 2021, 03:27:38 PM"All it demands is that we allow each individual to practice their religion."

Correct. Individuals.  Nobody is preventing individuals from practicing their religion.

But they are tho. If choosing to be gay is a sin, then as a christian I have the right to deny them my property or services. Heck, that goes beyond religion into simple rights of the individual as no private business can constitutionally be forced to serve anyone they dont want to, regardless of reason.

QuoteWhat isn't permitted is the government establishing religion.  The idea of "establishment" has been ruled to cover a lot of territory.  Establishment is treated like "endorse".  Government isn't permitted to endorse a specific religion.

Wrong. An establishment is specifically talking about a physical church or group of churches, ie a synod. The federal government cannot be involved in any specific church or help any one church over any other, including churches of other religions like a mosque or between sunni and shia muslims.

The founders themselves endorsed christianity as a religion to provide the morality necessary for a free people. And certain states have had state churches in the past.

But they are tho. If choosing to be gay is a sin, then as a christian I have the right to deny them my property or services. Heck, that goes beyond religion into simple rights of the individual as no private business can constitutionally be forced to serve anyone they dont want to, regardless of reason.

I agree that you should be able to deny anyone for any reason. If I'm a white nationalist, and I want to deny service to a black guy, I should be able to. This is where the government/religion intersect because people are scared to true freedom, so they create discrimination laws.

The other side is the argument that you and your business are separate entities and while YOU may be able to discriminate however you'd like, your business can't.

Wrong. An establishment is specifically talking about a physical church or group of churches, ie a synod. The federal government cannot be involved in any specific church or help any one church over any other, including churches of other religions like a mosque or between sunni and shia muslims.

The founders themselves endorsed christianity as a religion to provide the morality necessary for a free people. And certain states have had state churches in the past.

Like I mentioned before, SCOTUS has ruled on what is meant by the Establishment clause and it has been interpreted to say that government endorsing is a form of establishment.  I'd much rather error on the side of keeping government and religion separate that having them intersecting. 

Quote from: p1tchblack on July 23, 2021, 09:13:09 AMBut they are tho. If choosing to be gay is a sin, then as a christian I have the right to deny them my property or services. Heck, that goes beyond religion into simple rights of the individual as no private business can constitutionally be forced to serve anyone they dont want to, regardless of reason.

I agree that you should be able to deny anyone for any reason. If I'm a white nationalist, and I want to deny service to a black guy, I should be able to. This is where the government/religion intersect because people are scared to true freedom, so they create discrimination laws.

The other side is the argument that you and your business are separate entities and while YOU may be able to discriminate however you'd like, your business can't.

Wrong. An establishment is specifically talking about a physical church or group of churches, ie a synod. The federal government cannot be involved in any specific church or help any one church over any other, including churches of other religions like a mosque or between sunni and shia muslims.

The founders themselves endorsed christianity as a religion to provide the morality necessary for a free people. And certain states have had state churches in the past.

Like I mentioned before, SCOTUS has ruled on what is meant by the Establishment clause and it has been interpreted to say that government endorsing is a form of establishment.  I'd much rather error on the side of keeping government and religion separate that having them intersecting. 

Are you retarded? Can you not learn how to properly use the quote function? You have how many replys already and you cannot do this?

Quote from: T Hunt on July 23, 2021, 09:59:31 AMAre you retarded? Can you not learn how to properly use the quote function? You have how many replys already and you cannot do this?

Aaaaaaaand, the intelligent conversation comes to an end.  I've been yelled at at least one by solar for doing what you did above - break it into individual quotes and responses. If you don't like it, take it up with him.

Post 25 on this link:

https://conservativepoliticalforum.com/fred-call's-world/should-convicted-felons-be-allowed-to-own-guns/msg467472/#msg467472

Quote from: p1tchblack on July 23, 2021, 12:00:06 PMAaaaaaaand, the intelligent conversation comes to an end.  I've been yelled at at least one by solar for doing what you did above - break it into individual quotes and responses. If you don't like it, take it up with him.

:lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Dude, I have no idea what you're talking about, but whatever it was, you obviously misunderstood.
Just quote like everyone else, with your comment below, so everyone knows who and what you're responding to.

Quote from: Solar on July 23, 2021, 12:57:41 PM:lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Dude, I have no idea what you're talking about, but whatever it was, you obviously misunderstood.
Just quote like everyone else, with your comment below, so everyone knows who and what you're responding to.

Post 25 on this link:

https://conservativepoliticalforum.com/fred-call's-world/should-convicted-felons-be-allowed-to-own-guns/msg467472/#msg467472

Quote from: p1tchblack on July 23, 2021, 01:15:15 PMPost 25 on this link:

https://conservativepoliticalforum.com/fred-call's-world/should-convicted-felons-be-allowed-to-own-guns/msg467472/#msg467472

Ohhh Jeeeez, You were replying to two different people in one post, I said:

Quote from: Solar on July 12, 2021, 09:22:03 AMI won't say this again, one reply per post, never include two or more in a conversation, only one person at a time.
OK, so lets return to the days of an "eye for an eye", murder someone and hang for it.
That way he never lost his Second Amendment Rights.

I remember when murder was the worst offense one could commit, that is, until the left qualified the term "Hate Crime" bull shit, creating varying degrees of murder and varying degrees of punishment.

Now do you get it? One person per reply, you were replying to two different people in one post, that is poor etiquette, because the reply was to Thunt and you included me, had I not read the whole thing, I'd never have known I was part of your post.
So one person per quote!

Quote from: p1tchblack on July 23, 2021, 12:00:06 PMAaaaaaaand, the intelligent conversation comes to an end.  I've been yelled at at least one by solar for doing what you did above - break it into individual quotes and responses. If you don't like it, take it up with him.

No sorry thats not at all what he was yelling at you about. He wants you to use the quote function correctly. He also doesnt want you responding to two separate peoples posts in one reply. Can you not see the difference?

If you want to continue intelligent conversation (if thats what you call what you do) then learn to quote properly so I dont have to dissect your post. This is like the third time, thats the only reason Im saying anything.

Quote from: p1tchblack on July 23, 2021, 12:08:44 PMPost 25 on this link:

https://conservativepoliticalforum.com/fred-call's-world/should-convicted-felons-be-allowed-to-own-guns/msg467472/#msg467472

Yes, this example you provided was also done wrong. Can you make yours look like my long ones?

Quote from: T Hunt on July 22, 2021, 01:57:48 PMActually no they dont. Thats not in the constitution. All it demands is that we allow each individual to practice their religion. Anything else is an attempt to add things in that arent there, like the SC did with abortion.

It doesnt say anything about treating the religions themselves the same or allowing them all equally into the private sphere. Only one religion was part of our founding, so that religion will always be celebrated publicly more than any other.

And culturally as well we will always be majority christian. Thats not going to change.

Remember, according to the constitution, all AMERICANS are BORN equal under the LAW.
But there is nothing in the constitution that says all religions are equal, only that each individual has the right to practice it, nor that anyone has the right to be free FROM religion.

I believe the word I used to hear was Judeo Christian: which summed up the ethics, values, and morals. Just because it says "Christian", It doesn't mean that Jehovah's Witnesses, Judaism, or Protestant are excluded. We share the same ethics, values, and morals. A Ten Commandments type of thing: "don't steal your neighbor's ox, don't covet you neighbor's wife, and honor your family."

Jews are not offended by a Christmas tree. The only people who are offended are the ones who will never be happy after the so-called "offense" is gone. I wonder how many Jewish boys and girls participated in the Elementary School Christmas play along with their classmates and friends? I don't believe them playing Mary or Joseph is going to scar them for life. They probably don't remember it by now.

Quote from: Sick Of Silence on July 24, 2021, 09:53:33 AMI believe the word I used to hear was Judeo Christian: which summed up the ethics, values, and morals. Just because it says "Christian", It doesn't mean that Jehovah's Witnesses, Judaism, or Protestant are excluded. We share the same ethics, values, and morals. A Ten Commandments type of thing: "don't steal your neighbor's ox, don't covet you neighbor's wife, and honor your family."

Jews are not offended by a Christmas tree. The only people who are offended are the ones who will never be happy after the so-called "offense" is gone. I wonder how many Jewish boys and girls participated in the Elementary School Christmas play along with their classmates and friends? I don't believe them playing Mary or Joseph is going to scar them for life. They probably don't remember it by now.

:thumbup:  :thumbup:

Quote from: Sick Of Silence on July 24, 2021, 09:53:33 AMI believe the word I used to hear was Judeo Christian: which summed up the ethics, values, and morals. Just because it says "Christian", It doesn't mean that Jehovah's Witnesses, Judaism, or Protestant are excluded. We share the same ethics, values, and morals. A Ten Commandments type of thing: "don't steal your neighbor's ox, don't covet you neighbor's wife, and honor your family."

Jews are not offended by a Christmas tree. The only people who are offended are the ones who will never be happy after the so-called "offense" is gone. I wonder how many Jewish boys and girls participated in the Elementary School Christmas play along with their classmates and friends? I don't believe them playing Mary or Joseph is going to scar them for life. They probably don't remember it by now.

I could go into a whole series about how we DON'T have the same "values, morals & ethics". There are some who claim that "all roads lead to heaven" and "all religions are the same" as well but, that is not true, not fact and not even close to being real. Some "religions" have their own version of the Bible, written by modern man and steeped in paganism, humanity and absolute trash. I'm sure that there are some who will try to claim that CRT, Antifa and BLM are biblical as well but, that does not make it so.

So while it may be "cool", "now", "hip" or politically correct to claim that all "religions" have the same "morals, ethics and values", it simply is not so. I tell people that I am NOT at all "religious", I am a follower of Jesus Christ, amazingly and unfortunately different.

Quote from: RV on July 24, 2021, 10:16:08 AMI could go into a whole series about how we DON'T have the same "values, morals & ethics". There are some who claim that "all roads lead to heaven" and "all religions are the same" as well but, that is not true, not fact and not even close to being real. Some "religions" have their own version of the Bible, written by modern man and steeped in paganism, humanity and absolute trash. I'm sure that there are some who will try to claim that CRT, Antifa and BLM are biblical as well but, that does not make it so.

So while it may be "cool", "now", "hip" or politically correct to claim that all "religions" have the same "morals, ethics and values", it simply is not so. I tell people that I am NOT at all "religious", I am a follower of Jesus Christ, amazingly and unfortunately different.

I was speaking in general terms. Of course, you have evil people in charge of churches. I got fed up with seeing rainbows and BLM at on church properties and even made a thread on it.

I have some values, morals, and ethics. I never claim I am perfect. Overall, I am a good person because I was raised correctly. Part of that is living in a first world nation that has values, morals, and ethics as part of our culture. To bad the devil's minions are trying to destroy it.

Quote from: Sick Of Silence on July 24, 2021, 09:53:33 AMI believe the word I used to hear was Judeo Christian: which summed up the ethics, values, and morals. Just because it says "Christian", It doesn't mean that Jehovah's Witnesses, Judaism, or Protestant are excluded. We share the same ethics, values, and morals. A Ten Commandments type of thing: "don't steal your neighbor's ox, don't covet you neighbor's wife, and honor your family."

Jews are not offended by a Christmas tree. The only people who are offended are the ones who will never be happy after the so-called "offense" is gone. I wonder how many Jewish boys and girls participated in the Elementary School Christmas play along with their classmates and friends? I don't believe them playing Mary or Joseph is going to scar them for life. They probably don't remember it by now.

Thats a great point. When it comes to society and politics it is more the christian values and western values of which judaism and mormans and others do all share in that matters.

Quote from: T Hunt on July 25, 2021, 12:10:23 AMThats a great point. When it comes to society and politics it is more the christian values and western values of which judaism and mormans and others do all share in that matters.

If we're supporting Christian values, should I kill my neighbor when I see him working on his front yard on the Sabbath?  Maybe I should kill my kids when they back-talk?

Quote from: p1tchblack on July 25, 2021, 02:09:39 PMIf we're supporting Christian values, should I kill my neighbor when I see him working on his front yard on the Sabbath?  Maybe I should kill my kids when they back-talk?

red herring much?

Quote from: p1tchblack on July 25, 2021, 02:09:39 PMIf we're supporting Christian values, should I kill my neighbor when I see him working on his front yard on the Sabbath?  Maybe I should kill my kids when they back-talk?

a question quite similar was asked of Christ. Why don't you look up what his answer was? You're really not very good at this.

Quote from: Possum on July 25, 2021, 03:12:34 PMa question quite similar was asked of Christ. Why don't you look up what his answer was? You're really not very good at this.

Because there is no "Book of Jesus" so we have no idea what he said.

Quote from: p1tchblack on July 25, 2021, 03:27:34 PMBecause there is no "Book of Jesus" so we have no idea what he said.

So you are not going to look up the answer. Well as they say, ignorance is bliss.

Quote from: Possum on July 25, 2021, 03:29:34 PMSo you are not going to look up the answer. Well as they say, ignorance is bliss.

I am very much aware of what the Bible says. I'm also very much aware of the contradictions and inconsistencies of the Bible. Those who follow the Bible see what they want to see.

Quote from: p1tchblack on July 25, 2021, 03:44:28 PMI am very much aware of what the Bible says. I'm also very much aware of the contradictions and inconsistencies of the Bible. Those who follow the Bible see what they want to see.

And those who do not follow the bible see what they want to see. You have no point. It's been said before, we see right through you.

Quote from: p1tchblack on July 25, 2021, 02:09:39 PMIf we're supporting Christian values, should I kill my neighbor when I see him working on his front yard on the Sabbath?  Maybe I should kill my kids when they back-talk?

Hmmmm, I'm not familiar with that particular passage that tells a Christian to "kill" anyone for anything. Please list the chapter and verse so that I may look it up.

Quote from: RV on July 25, 2021, 04:01:17 PMHmmmm, I'm not familiar with that particular passage that tells a Christian to "kill" anyone for anything. Please list the chapter and verse so that I may look it up.

Of course not. Christians only acknowledge the commands of their God outside the Old Testament!

Unless it has to do with cutting off your dick skin or the fags.

Quote from: p1tchblack on July 25, 2021, 04:30:24 PMOf course not. Christians only acknowledge the commands of their God outside the Old Testament!

Unless it has to do with cutting off your dick skin or the fags.

So in other words, it's just YOUR opinion, YOUR word and YOUR perception of what the Bible says. The Bible ACTUALLY says, "Thou shall not commit murder"...

Red Letter bibles.  Jesus' words.

Quote from: p1tchblack on July 25, 2021, 04:30:24 PMOf course not. Christians only acknowledge the commands of their God outside the Old Testament!

Unless it has to do with cutting off your dick skin or the fags.

And of course you have no proof of any of this. Typical liberal.

Quote from: RV on July 25, 2021, 05:00:14 PMSo in other words, it's just YOUR opinion, YOUR word and YOUR perception of what the Bible says. The Bible ACTUALLY says, "Thou shall not commit murder"...

No, not at all. I just read the Bible differently than 99% of Christians.

Quote from: p1tchblack on July 25, 2021, 06:32:20 PMNo, not at all. I just read the Bible differently than 99% of Christians.

You are just throwing crap against the wall, there are 2.5 billion Christians in the world and YOU know how everyone of them thinks? YOU know YOU are different? You think You know the right way to think? Let me guess, you always got a trophy? Hate to tell you this, none are given here for acting SIP.

Quote from: p1tchblack on July 25, 2021, 04:30:24 PMOf course not. Christians only acknowledge the commands of their God outside the Old Testament!

Unless it has to do with cutting off your dick skin or the fags.

Wrong! The 10 Commandments are in the Old Testament and believed by Christians.

Quote from: supsalemgr on July 26, 2021, 04:31:21 AMWrong! The 10 Commandments are in the Old Testament and believed by Christians.

True. I forgot about that.

Either way, keeping church and state separate, both ways, is a good idea. 

Quote from: supsalemgr on July 26, 2021, 04:31:21 AMWrong! The 10 Commandments are in the Old Testament and believed by Christians.

There were even some courtrooms that had the 10 commandments posted. I can't say if that is still so or if the Democrats sued to get them taken down.

Quote from: p1tchblack on July 25, 2021, 02:09:39 PMIf we're supporting Christian values, should I kill my neighbor when I see him working on his front yard on the Sabbath?  Maybe I should kill my kids when they back-talk?

Back it up or retract it with an apology to all Christians!

Quote from: p1tchblack on July 25, 2021, 02:09:39 PMIf we're supporting Christian values, should I kill my neighbor when I see him working on his front yard on the Sabbath?  Maybe I should kill my kids when they back-talk?

Thou shall not kill, means murder: you can't kill for personal reasons. It doesn't mean you can't defend or punish.

Quote from: p1tchblack on July 25, 2021, 02:09:39 PMIf we're supporting Christian values, should I kill my neighbor when I see him working on his front yard on the Sabbath?  Maybe I should kill my kids when they back-talk?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

And please pray tell, where you get the idea that that is christian values???

Someone has really really lied to you, and you never bothered to check any of it out from the source itself.

I shouldnt laugh as its actually very sad...

Quote from: p1tchblack on July 25, 2021, 03:27:34 PMBecause there is no "Book of Jesus" so we have no idea what he said.

Except the entire bible is Jesus word. You get that, right?

Quote from: p1tchblack on July 25, 2021, 03:44:28 PMI am very much aware of what the Bible says. I'm also very much aware of the contradictions and inconsistencies of the Bible. Those who follow the Bible see what they want to see.

Then why cant you point out a single ACTUAL contradiction or inconsistency in the bible. I mean people have been trying and failing to do just that for millennia now. Surely you have something none of them have every noticed before, right?

Quote from: p1tchblack on July 25, 2021, 04:30:24 PMOf course not. Christians only acknowledge the commands of their God outside the Old Testament!

Unless it has to do with cutting off your dick skin or the fags.

Uh oh! Someone is personally pissed at God...

Quote from: p1tchblack on July 25, 2021, 06:32:20 PMNo, not at all. I just read the Bible differently than 99% of Christians.

So somehow you have some special insight from God that no other christian has ever seen before, right?  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Quote from: p1tchblack on July 26, 2021, 05:38:34 AMTrue. I forgot about that.

Either way, keeping church and state separate, both ways, is a good idea.

No its a horrible Idea, which is why it was never put in the constitution, and the only letter talking about it made it clear that it is a one way street, keeping government out of religion but not keeping religion out of government.

Quote from: T Hunt on July 26, 2021, 11:10:46 AMNo its a horrible Idea, which is why it was never put in the constitution, and the only letter talking about it made it clear that it is a one way street, keeping government out of religion but not keeping religion out of government.

The problem with Libs is that they think that freedom OF religion is the same as freedom FROM religion and do what they can because they hate God and hate His followers.

Quote from: Sick Of Silence on July 26, 2021, 08:24:01 AMThou shall not kill, means murder: you can't kill for personal reasons. It doesn't mean you can't defend or punish.

Tell the Canaanites.

Quote from: p1tchblack on July 26, 2021, 03:09:15 PMTell the Canaanites.

Do you ever research before you post?

Quote from: Possum on July 26, 2021, 03:13:58 PMDo you ever research before you post?

He is fed information to post.

Quote from: Possum on July 26, 2021, 03:13:58 PMDo you ever research before you post?

All the time.

Ever heard of Noah... The Ark... Flood?

I mean, God puts even the most ambitious serial killer to shame.

Quote from: p1tchblack on July 26, 2021, 04:15:41 PMAll the time.

Ever heard of Noah... The Ark... Flood?

I mean, God puts even the most ambitious serial killer to shame.

You got this stupid in public down real good.

Quote from: p1tchblack on July 26, 2021, 03:09:15 PMTell the Canaanites.

You mean the abortionists who threw their kids and babies into fires???

Quote from: p1tchblack on July 26, 2021, 04:15:41 PMAll the time.

Ever heard of Noah... The Ark... Flood?

I mean, God puts even the most ambitious serial killer to shame.

Uh oh, God better sit down cuz PB has a much better sense of morality,  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Quote from: p1tchblack on July 26, 2021, 03:09:15 PMTell the Canaanites.

Are you a "Canaanite"? Do you know any "Canaanites"?

There are people who break into houses does that mean that everyone should? There are people who shoplift, does that mean that everyone should? There are people who kidnap and commit murder, does that mean everyone should? There are people who molest children, does that mean that everyone should? There are people who commit rape, does that mean that everyone should?

Quote from: Sick Of Silence on July 26, 2021, 03:56:26 PMHe is fed information to post.

BINGO!!!
I think they may not like him based on the shit he's being fed. :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Quote from: Possum on July 26, 2021, 04:18:56 PMYou got this stupid in public down real good.

I think you will find he is SIL.  (Stupid in Life)

Quote from: T Hunt on July 26, 2021, 04:37:12 PMUh oh, God better sit down cuz PB has a much better sense of morality,  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Aren't all modern Christians more moral than God?  Even if it were legal, would you see it as morally acceptable to kill your kids for arguing, kill your wife for braiding her hair or kill your neighbor for working on the Sabbath?

Quote from: p1tchblack on July 27, 2021, 06:28:27 AMAren't all modern Christians more moral than God?  Even if it were legal, would you see it as morally acceptable to kill your kids for arguing, kill your wife for braiding her hair or kill your neighbor for working on the Sabbath?

Stop right there, all of that is pure hate driven bull shit that you know has zero grounding in truth.
One more time with your bull shit and Walks will give you a one week timeout. Am I clear? Do it when you come back and you're banned, permanently!

You're skating on extremely thin ice!

Quote from: Sick Of Silence on July 26, 2021, 03:56:26 PMHe is fed information to post.

To a point that's accurate.  I read a decent amount and listen to audiobooks/podcasts about topics that are interesting to me.  Obviously those things do occasionally come out on forums or in conversations.

Quote from: Solar on July 27, 2021, 06:40:16 AMStop right there, all of that is pure hate driven bull shit that you know has zero grounding in truth.
One more time with your bull shit and Walks will give you a one week timeout. Am I clear? Do it when you come back and you're banned, permanently!

You're skating on extremely thin ice!

Hate driven?  Who do I hate?  In no way do I hate people because their religious.  I especially don't hate Christians - My wife, kids, in-laws, parents, etc are all Christian.

Quote from: p1tchblack on July 27, 2021, 07:17:40 AMHate driven?  Who do I hate?  In no way do I hate people because their religious.  I especially don't hate Christians - My wife, kids, in-laws, parents, etc are all Christian.

Again with the lies? You've been warned! This is not the religion forum asshole!
This is about the First Amendment and how you leftists have tried to bastardize it.
So cut your hate, bigotry is not tolerated on this forum, you little prick.

Quote from: p1tchblack on July 27, 2021, 06:28:27 AMAren't all modern Christians more moral than God?  Even if it were legal, would you see it as morally acceptable to kill your kids for arguing, kill your wife for braiding her hair or kill your neighbor for working on the Sabbath?

This post reflects your total ignorance of the Christian religion. Christians recognize we are all sinners and are dependent on God for forgiveness.

Quote from: supsalemgr on July 27, 2021, 07:29:11 AMThis post reflects your total ignorance of the Christian religion. Christians recognize we are all sinners and are dependent on God for forgiveness.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/ENxCy9sECLIEU/giphy.gif)

Quote from: p1tchblack on July 27, 2021, 06:28:27 AMAren't all modern Christians more moral than God? 

No they arent, modern Christians honestly attempt tp follow all the commands God has given them in the bible.

QuoteEven if it were legal, would you see it as morally acceptable to kill your kids for arguing, kill your wife for braiding her hair or kill your neighbor for working on the Sabbath?

Why would we want to do a bunch of stuff like you listed that God never commanded us to do??

Sorry but God has NEVER commanded his children to do anything immoral, as God decides what is moral, not the sinful human heart.


 

Quote from: p1tchblack on July 27, 2021, 07:33:31 AM(https://media.giphy.com/media/ENxCy9sECLIEU/giphy.gif)

Yes, you have nothing to say because you have no evidence to back up your hate filled lies. Why else would you make up such things about the bible out of whole cloth and without evidence?

Quote from: T Hunt on July 27, 2021, 08:35:54 AMNo they arent, modern Christians honestly attempt tp follow all the commands God has given them in the bible.
Why would we want to do a bunch of stuff like you listed that God never commanded us to do??

Sorry but God has NEVER commanded his children to do anything immoral, as God decides what is moral, not the sinful human heart.

That is what I/we mentioned pages ago. America is based on Judeo Christian values. That is not "combining" church and state. It establishes the ethics, values, and morals a society needs to flourish and survive. You don't even need to be religious to agree with it. A Ten Commandments type of thing. You don't even have to be religious to follow it.

Quote from: T Hunt on July 27, 2021, 08:41:57 AMYes, you have nothing to say because you have no evidence to back up your hate filled lies. Why else would you make up such things about the bible out of whole cloth and without evidence?

He's(?)a troll, why expect anything else?

Quote from: T Hunt on July 27, 2021, 08:43:45 AMYes, you have nothing to say because you have no evidence to back up your hate filled lies. Why else would you make up such things about the bible out of whole cloth and without evidence?

I have plenty to say, but I get the impression that continuing those thoughts on this thread would give others the ammo they need (want?) to ban me again.

I'll just start something on the religious category of the site at some point.

Quote from: Sick Of Silence on July 27, 2021, 09:03:05 AMThat is what I/we mentioned pages ago. America is based on Judeo Christian values. That is not "combining" church and state. It establishes the ethics, values, and morals a society needs to flourish and survive. You don't even need to be religious to agree with it. A Ten Commandments type of thing. You don't even have to be religious to follow it.

Exactly! But these people hate christians and...no, they really hate God himself, then they take it out on christians. Their hate blinds them to reality and makes them easy for the devil to further manipulate.

I like to use the word THEOCRACY to describe what we DONT want in america, ie the church AS the state. Thats the thing libs are really complaining about, but no christian is calling for such a thing.
There is a big difference between a theocracy and having a government informed and influenced by judeo-christian values.

Quote from: p1tchblack on July 27, 2021, 09:07:31 AMI have plenty to say, but I get the impression that continuing those thoughts on this thread would give others the ammo they need (want?) to ban me again.

I'll just start something on the religious category of the site at some point.

Thoughts are fine, lies arent.

Quote from: T Hunt on July 22, 2021, 01:57:48 PMActually no they dont. Thats not in the constitution. All it demands is that we allow each individual to practice their religion. Anything else is an attempt to add things in that arent there, like the SC did with abortion.

It doesnt say anything about treating the religions themselves the same or allowing them all equally into the private sphere. Only one religion was part of our founding, so that religion will always be celebrated publicly more than any other.

And culturally as well we will always be majority christian. Thats not going to change.

Remember, according to the constitution, all AMERICANS are BORN equal under the LAW.
But there is nothing in the constitution that says all religions are equal, only that each individual has the right to practice it, nor that anyone has the right to be free FROM religion.

Now, if not all religions are equal, can we not be free from a religion that goes against our ethics, values, and morals? Sharia law goes against our ethics, values, and morals?

Quote from: p1tchblack on July 27, 2021, 09:07:31 AMI have plenty to say, but I get the impression that continuing those thoughts on this thread would give others the ammo they need (want?) to ban me again.

I'll just start something on the religious category of the site at some point.

If so, be set to back up your BS posts.  It's not your debating skills that keeps you on this board.  You are a education tool for the 700+ Guests that come in everyday.  You have had 3 warning after your ban, so I have all the ammo I need.

Quote from: p1tchblack on July 27, 2021, 09:07:31 AMI have plenty to say, but I get the impression that continuing those thoughts on this thread would give others the ammo they need (want?) to ban me again.

I'll just start something on the religious category of the site at some point.

You may have something to say that impresses yourself, much like the chess playing pigeon, but you have nothing, you bring nothing, I have had animals that had a higher moral understanding than you are capable of showing. Everyone here sees right through you.

Quote from: T Hunt on July 27, 2021, 08:35:54 AMNo they arent, modern Christians honestly attempt tp follow all the commands God has given them in the bible.
Why would we want to do a bunch of stuff like you listed that God never commanded us to do??

Sorry but God has NEVER commanded his children to do anything immoral, as God decides what is moral, not the sinful human heart.

So, are you saying that the Bible never commanded Christians specifically to do the things I mentioned or God never commanded anyone to do the things I mentioned?

Or are you doing the not uncommon approach of "The old testament doesn't count"?

Quote from: p1tchblack on July 27, 2021, 06:28:27 AMAren't all modern Christians more moral than God?  Even if it were legal, would you see it as morally acceptable to kill your kids for arguing, kill your wife for braiding her hair or kill your neighbor for working on the Sabbath?

Once again you are stating YOUR lack of ethics and morality NOT God's. As I quoted the Bible, "Thou shalt not commit murder". It's one of the Commandments that you of course ignore...

Quote from: RV on July 27, 2021, 11:13:04 AMOnce again you are stating YOUR lack of ethics and morality NOT God's. As I quoted the Bible, "Thou shalt not commit murder". It's one of the Commandments that you of course ignore...

My ethics tell me that I shouldn't kill my children even if they are rebellious.  God teaches something different.
 Are we to consider that as moral solely because it's God saying it's moral?:

A Rebellious Son

18 If someone has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, 19 his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. 20 They shall say to the elders, "This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a glutton and a drunkard." 21 Then all the men of his town are to stone him to death. You must purge the evil from among you. All Israel will hear of it and be afraid.

Don't you know the difference between murder and punishment?

Quote from: p1tchblack on July 27, 2021, 11:40:45 AMMy ethics tell me that I shouldn't kill my children even if they are rebellious.  God teaches something different.
 Are we to consider that as moral solely because it's God saying it's moral?:

A Rebellious Son

18 If someone has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, 19 his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. 20 They shall say to the elders, "This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a glutton and a drunkard." 21 Then all the men of his town are to stone him to death. You must purge the evil from among you. All Israel will hear of it and be afraid.

Well then blame the Jews like a normal lefty does.

Quote from: p1tchblack on July 27, 2021, 11:40:45 AMMy ethics tell me that I shouldn't kill my children even if they are rebellious.  God teaches something different.
 Are we to consider that as moral solely because it's God saying it's moral?:

A Rebellious Son

18 If someone has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, 19 his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. 20 They shall say to the elders, "This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a glutton and a drunkard." 21 Then all the men of his town are to stone him to death. You must purge the evil from among you. All Israel will hear of it and be afraid.

If your son was in the process of killing many innocents and you had the chance to shoot him and save many lives, would you do it?

Quote from: Possum on July 27, 2021, 01:01:28 PMIf your son was in the process of killing many innocents and you had the chance to shoot him and save many lives, would you do it?

Most likely, yes. What is the basis for your belief that the verses I noted are talking about that kind of situation?

Quote from: p1tchblack on July 27, 2021, 11:40:45 AMMy ethics tell me that I shouldn't kill my children even if they are rebellious.  God teaches something different.
 Are we to consider that as moral solely because it's God saying it's moral?:

A Rebellious Son

18 If someone has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, 19 his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. 20 They shall say to the elders, "This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a glutton and a drunkard." 21 Then all the men of his town are to stone him to death. You must purge the evil from among you. All Israel will hear of it and be afraid.

So... your town has "elders"? Your town has a gate? Your Son is a "drunkard" and a "glutton"? How many men of your town has stoned anyone to death? Would the law in your town allow someone to be stoned to death? Are you Jewish? Do you live in Israel? Did you live when the Bible was written? And of course you are completely ignoring the Commandments, like all Democrats...

Quote from: p1tchblack on July 27, 2021, 01:29:19 PMMost likely, yes. What is the basis for your belief that the verses I noted are talking about that kind of situation?

Why don't you research it. Learn what the times and customs were. You have a bad habit of just taking what is on the surface.

Quote from: p1tchblack on July 27, 2021, 01:29:19 PMMost likely, yes. What is the basis for your belief that the verses I noted are talking about that kind of situation?

"Most likely yes", which means he may not or he may, it all depends on how he FEELS that particular day. He may help his son kill someone or he may not...

Quote from: Sick Of Silence on July 27, 2021, 09:18:27 AMNow, if not all religions are equal, can we not be free from a religion that goes against our ethics, values, and morals? Sharia law goes against our ethics, values, and morals?

The first thing that comes to mind is a dark religion like satanism. Any religion that sacrifices children can never be allowed. Likewise religions like leftism/marxism must also be held in check.

If you take the term 'religion' in its broadest sense then it is impossible to treat all religions equally.

Quote from: p1tchblack on July 27, 2021, 10:53:13 AMSo, are you saying that the Bible never commanded Christians specifically to do the things I mentioned or God never commanded anyone to do the things I mentioned?

Or are you doing the not uncommon approach of "The old testament doesn't count"?

Yes, the things you stated God never commanded christians to do.

Quote from: RV on July 27, 2021, 02:06:07 PMSo... your town has "elders"? Your town has a gate? Your Son is a "drunkard" and a "glutton"? How many men of your town has stoned anyone to death? Would the law in your town allow someone to be stoned to death? Are you Jewish? Do you live in Israel? Did you live when the Bible was written? And of course you are completely ignoring the Commandments, like all Democrats...

Like most leftists, they dont understand CONTEXT. They want to look at everything from the point of view of the modern world.

Quote from: Possum on July 27, 2021, 02:11:51 PMWhy don't you research it. Learn what the times and customs were. You have a bad habit of just taking what is on the surface.

Dont all leftists?

Quote from: T Hunt on July 28, 2021, 04:23:51 AMDont all leftists?

You know since Democrats seem to think that EVERYTHING applies today, there are LOTS of places that still have laws requiring hitching posts at every business location yet, Dems don't think that those laws are "relevant"...

As a matter of fact there are LOTS of archaic laws on the books that are not enforced anymore.
Where are all the God haters advocating that those laws be taken off of the books? Liberals all seem to think that God should amend his word...

Quote from: RV on July 28, 2021, 06:30:12 AMYou know since Democrats seem to think that EVERYTHING applies today, there are LOTS of places that still have laws requiring hitching posts at every business location yet, Dems don't think that those laws are "relevant"...

As a matter of fact there are LOTS of archaic laws on the books that are not enforced anymore.
Where are all the God haters advocating that those laws be taken off of the books? Liberals all seem to think that God should amend his word...

I say keep them, and use them for modern purposes. Before we can go inside a business, we must tie up our lefties and leave them outside. When you act like an animal, you should be treated like an animal.

Quote from: RV on July 27, 2021, 02:51:34 PM"Most likely yes", which means he may not or he may, it all depends on how he FEELS that particular day. He may help his son kill someone or he may not...

If my son was in the middle of a shooting rampage (which wasn't an option in Biblical times), I believe I would be able to shoot and kill him, but it IS my son, so....

Quote from: T Hunt on July 28, 2021, 04:21:24 AMYes, the things you stated God never commanded christians to do.

But, God did command people to do the things I mentioned. Did he not also command people to stone women to death who were unfaithful?  Did he not say that you should stone a woman to death if she's found to not be a virgin on your wedding night?

Does that sound moral?

Quote from: p1tchblack on July 28, 2021, 08:14:39 AMIf my son was in the middle of a shooting rampage (which wasn't an option in Biblical times), I believe I would be able to shoot and kill him, but it IS my son, so....

Of course you only responded to the part you wanted to. The scripture you quoted talks about a town gate and town elders, you avoided THAT part...

If your Son was a "glutton" and a "drunkard" as the scripture speaks of, would you allow him to eat all of your provisions leaving nothing for your other children, your wife and yourself? I point this out since YOU used that specific scripture to supposedly support your claim that God was a serial killer. It's interesting that you used ONLY part of scripture, ONLY part of the Bible but, ignored the part that didn't support your claim. Gee, that is just like all Dems do.

Quote from: p1tchblack on July 28, 2021, 08:16:27 AMBut, God did command people to do the things I mentioned. Did he not also command people to stone women to death who were unfaithful?  Did he not say that you should stone a woman to death if she's found to not be a virgin on your wedding night?

Does that sound moral?

LOL no sorry he didnt. If so then why cant you show me any of that in the bible in context  where he commanded christians to do those things???

Quote from: Sick Of Silence on July 28, 2021, 06:56:25 AMI say keep them, and use them for modern purposes. Before we can go inside a business, we must tie up our lefties and leave them outside. When you act like an animal, you should be treated like an animal.

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:
Has anyone remembered to feed PB today? He seems kinda wild...

Quote from: T Hunt on July 28, 2021, 12:08:37 PMLOL no sorry he didnt. If so then why cant you show me any of that in the bible in context  where he commanded christians to do those things???

The entirety of Deuteronomy 21 is instruction for the Hebrews, including what I posted.

Quote from: T Hunt on July 28, 2021, 12:09:24 PM:lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:
Has anyone remembered to feed PB today? He seems kinda wild...

Gee, does that mean that PB is advocating that he himself should be left and tied up outside?

Quote from: p1tchblack on July 28, 2021, 02:33:43 PMThe entirety of Deuteronomy 21 is instruction for the Hebrews, including what I posted.

No Im sorry, what you specifically posted out of context is nowhere in the bible. God has never commanded chrisitans to do anything immoral, thats why you are unable to show me that he did.

Quote from: T Hunt on July 29, 2021, 08:43:46 AMNo Im sorry, what you specifically posted out of context is nowhere in the bible. God has never commanded chrisitans to do anything immoral, thats why you are unable to show me that he did.

Again, you're playing word games. Did God command Christians SPECIFICALLY? No.  Christians and the writers of the New Testament appeared to have realized that the behavior of the vengeful, spiteful God if the OT was untenable. Did the Christian God command, and endorse, a list of behaviors that we NOW know to be immoral?  Yes.

Quote from: p1tchblack on August 01, 2021, 07:12:59 PMAgain, you're playing word games. Did God command Christians SPECIFICALLY? No.  Christians and the writers of the New Testament appeared to have realized that the behavior of the vengeful, spiteful God if the OT was untenable. Did the Christian God command, and endorse, a list of behaviors that we NOW know to be immoral?  Yes.

Well if what you say is true then you should have no trouble showing me exactly where he said the things you said he said, right???
But thats why you cant and wont... :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Quote from: p1tchblack on August 01, 2021, 07:12:59 PMAgain, you're playing word games. Did God command Christians SPECIFICALLY? No.  Christians and the writers of the New Testament appeared to have realized that the behavior of the vengeful, spiteful God if the OT was untenable. Did the Christian God command, and endorse, a list of behaviors that we NOW know to be immoral?  Yes.

But, earlier you said that God didn't need to command "specifically" because you just "assume" that you know what He said. So I guess it doesn't matter to the godless what God actually says or said because they just do whatever they want anyway. I guess on that basis, you probably think that you can sin any way you like because after all, it's not about what God says or said, it's about what you "assume" He said, says or meant. It is this same kind of warped "thinking" that allows for abortion, perversions and same sex marriage.

Quote from: T Hunt on August 01, 2021, 10:13:48 PMWell if what you say is true then you should have no trouble showing me exactly where he said the things you said he said, right???
But thats why you cant and wont... :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Ok, now I see what you're doing.  God never spoke, and therefore ended up in writing, the commands, so it's all just man making things up?

So, you'd agree that God told Moses to build an ark and drowned the world, but everything else is basically "man-made"?

Quote from: p1tchblack on August 02, 2021, 08:15:22 AMOk, now I see what you're doing.  God never spoke, and therefore ended up in writing, the commands, so it's all just man making things up?

So, you'd agree that God told Moses to build an ark and drowned the world, but everything else is basically "man-made"?

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol: what kinda kooky shit are you talking about???

Its simple, if God actually said what you said he said, then why cant you paste the entire verses(with context) of him saying it with chapter and verse???

Quote from: RV on August 02, 2021, 06:22:39 AMBut, earlier you said that God didn't need to command "specifically" because you just "assume" that you know what He said. So I guess it doesn't matter to the godless what God actually says or said because they just do whatever they want anyway. I guess on that basis, you probably think that you can sin any way you like because after all, it's not about what God says or said, it's about what you "assume" He said, says or meant. It is this same kind of warped "thinking" that allows for abortion, perversions and same sex marriage.

PB already admitted that his inner sense of morality is better and more accurate than Gods morality...

Quote from: p1tchblack on August 02, 2021, 08:15:22 AMOk, now I see what you're doing.  God never spoke, and therefore ended up in writing, the commands, so it's all just man making things up?

So, you'd agree that God told Moses to build an ark and drowned the world, but everything else is basically "man-made"?

And Noah delivered the Ten Commandments? :rolleyes:

Quote from: Solar on August 02, 2021, 08:24:56 AMAnd Noah delivered the Ten Commandments? :rolleyes:

Yep, flip-flopped those.  Noah = ark  Moses - commandments.

But is that the approach?  God never "said" it, so he couldn't have commanded it?  If yes, that's a new angle.

Quote from: Solar on August 02, 2021, 08:24:56 AMAnd Noah delivered the Ten Commandments? :rolleyes:

(https://th.bing.com/th/id/R.ba0a27823568fa6921e9a7beacac43c1?rik=%2bM0sRzSVif4Y6g&riu=http%3a%2f%2fimages.tritondigitalcms.com%2f6616%2fsites%2f265%2f2018%2f05%2f30053219%2f5a596a5b9258d.jpeg&ehk=xSHZlQ%2fG0yCDvA15uwhWPhMBwWTOwVRAQ9KmGddtpk4%3d&risl=&pid=ImgRaw&r=0)

Quote from: walkstall on August 02, 2021, 08:54:10 AM(https://th.bing.com/th/id/R.ba0a27823568fa6921e9a7beacac43c1?rik=%2bM0sRzSVif4Y6g&riu=http%3a%2f%2fimages.tritondigitalcms.com%2f6616%2fsites%2f265%2f2018%2f05%2f30053219%2f5a596a5b9258d.jpeg&ehk=xSHZlQ%2fG0yCDvA15uwhWPhMBwWTOwVRAQ9KmGddtpk4%3d&risl=&pid=ImgRaw&r=0)

:lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Nah, it's just that stupidity has a way of drowning out statements by smart people.
You can't help but stop and look at the train wreck. :biggrin:

Quote from: RV on August 02, 2021, 06:22:39 AMBut, earlier you said that God didn't need to command "specifically" because you just "assume" that you know what He said. So I guess it doesn't matter to the godless what God actually says or said because they just do whatever they want anyway. I guess on that basis, you probably think that you can sin any way you like because after all, it's not about what God says or said, it's about what you "assume" He said, says or meant. It is this same kind of warped "thinking" that allows for abortion, perversions and same sex marriage.

The Bible is considered to be the inspired and inerrant word of God.  If not from the Bible, where else do you determine what God commanded man to do?  I assume you'd agree that God drowned the world because man specifically quoted him telling Noah to build the ark.  But, do you not believe that God commanded the genocide of the Canaanites because man didn't quote God?

Quote from: p1tchblack on August 11, 2021, 11:05:09 AMThe Bible is considered to be the inspired and inerrant word of God.  If not from the Bible, where else do you determine what God commanded man to do?  I assume you'd agree that God drowned the world because man specifically quoted him telling Noah to build the ark.  But, do you not believe that God commanded the genocide of the Canaanites because man didn't quote God?

But you are still unable to quote us the actual verses in context where God said exactly what you are saying he said.
You cannot show where God gave any commands which are immoral.
Remember, the death penalty is very moral as it is part of justice, and most americans agree with that today.

Quote from: p1tchblack on August 11, 2021, 11:05:09 AMThe Bible is considered to be the inspired and inerrant word of God.  If not from the Bible, where else do you determine what God commanded man to do?  I assume you'd agree that God drowned the world because man specifically quoted him telling Noah to build the ark.  But, do you not believe that God commanded the genocide of the Canaanites because man didn't quote God?

I know that your reading and comprehending skills are lacking however, the flood did not occur because someone forgot to "quote God" as you erroneously claim. If you go back and read Genesis as it TRULY is, God caused the flood because mankind in general had disobeyed His commands.

As far as the Canaanites are concerned, please give me the chapter and verse that you are quoting out of context that specifically says (as you claim), that God ordered the Canaanites to be slain for "not quoting God".

Obviously you are making wild assumptions of what you want scripture to say rather than what it actually says.

Quote from: RV on August 11, 2021, 06:56:25 PMI know that your reading and comprehending skills are lacking however, the flood did not occur because someone forgot to "quote God" as you erroneously claim. If you go back and read Genesis as it TRULY is, God caused the flood because mankind in general had disobeyed His commands.

As far as the Canaanites are concerned, please give me the chapter and verse that you are quoting out of context that specifically says (as you claim), that God ordered the Canaanites to be slain for "not quoting God".

Obviously you are making wild assumptions of what you want scripture to say rather than what it actually says.

And not just disobeyed, but had fully abandoned God. Like the whole world had abandoned God accept Noah and his family. No others left. And the rest were disobeying on a grand scale, murder and polygamy come to mind.

Then when the rains came the others mocked Noah much as PB and other trolls mock us today.

Imagine the entire world had been taken over by PB's ilk, living in their brainwashed fantasies, and only one family left who knew the Truth. That was the situation God was dealing with when he had to cleanse the world with water.

Quote from: T Hunt on August 11, 2021, 07:54:51 PMAnd not just disobeyed, but had fully abandoned God. Like the whole world had abandoned God accept Noah and his family. No others left. And the rest were disobeying on a grand scale, murder and polygamy come to mind.

Then when the rains came the others mocked Noah much as PB and other trolls mock us today.

Imagine the entire world had been taken over by PB's ilk, living in their brainwashed fantasies, and only one family left who knew the Truth. That was the situation God was dealing with when he had to cleanse the world with water.

You know, we were just talking about this at Bible study. The words "depart from me ye workers of iniquity, I never knew you." Sends chills up my spine.

Quote from: RV on August 12, 2021, 04:55:39 AMYou know, we were just talking about this at Bible study. The words "depart from me ye workers of iniquity, I never knew you." Sends chills up my spine.

It reminds me of pharaoh, the one that dealt with Moses and the Israelites in Egypt.

Exodus 9:
12But the Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart and he would not listen to Moses and Aaron, just as the Lord had said to Moses.

When someone demands to be separate from God eventually he grants them their wish and it always turns out bad for them.

Quote from: T Hunt on August 12, 2021, 06:00:48 AMIt reminds me of pharaoh, the one that dealt with Moses and the Israelites in Egypt.

Exodus 9:
12But the Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart and he would not listen to Moses and Aaron, just as the Lord had said to Moses.

When someone demands to be separate from God eventually he grants them their wish and it always turns out bad for them.

It absolutely turns out bad and for eternity!

There are some projects at church that I have been working on. Those projects are suddenly more urgent. Not sure why, don't know if I'll be around to see the rapture and have no idea of when the rapture will happen. I just know that there is urgency in my spirit and I cannot understand it nor put it into words...

Quote from: RV on August 12, 2021, 06:24:00 AMIt absolutely turns out bad and for eternity!

There are some projects at church that I have been working on. Those projects are suddenly more urgent. Not sure why, don't know if I'll be around to see the rapture and have no idea of when the rapture will happen. I just know that there is urgency in my spirit and I cannot understand it nor put it into words...

Work while it is day...

QuoteJohn 9:
4As long as it is day, we must do the works of him who sent me. Night is coming, when no one can work.