Just a Theory from a Christian point of view.

[ORIGINAL WILLARD]

What is your opinion of capitalism?

Greetings, I'm an ardent advocate for the defense of capitalism. As you must be aware, cultural Marxism in America now has commerce, industry, entrepreneurship and our country's very survival on the ropes. It is my opinion that most Americans don't even realize we're in the throes of a Marxist revolution. I might add it's my belief this is well orchestrated by the America hater in the Oval Office. A short answer....I'm being summoned to cook for a group. Thanks for your post.

[Solar]

According to your contention, help me understand where tithing might appropriately be discussed, given its financial implications. One might ask how it might be possible to discuss family finances for a Christian family ascribing to biblical principles of monetary stewardship. I ask you to explain where one might discuss varying methods of securing ministerial finances relating to church planning, or securing building funds in keeping with biblical teaching. I would also appreciate an explanation in this context regarding the array of financial decisions pastors and ministerial committees must face on a daily basis. Financial and budgetary realities involving community outreach, missionary funding and food-bank management alone, are complex and demanding components of religion in America.

My "religion" is based upon the teachings of the Holy Bible. To be clear, I refer to the Bible of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, including thirteen epistles written by Paul. The Bible offers 500 verses on prayer, less than 500 on faith and more than 2000 (two thousand) verses on "money." 

Mathew 21:12 reveals God's disdain for ungodly commerce whereupon he ejected the "moneychangers" from the temple. Jesus entered the temple and drove out all those who were buying and selling in the temple, and overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who were selling doves. And He said to them, "It is written, 'MY HOUSE SHALL BE CALLED A HOUSE OF PRAYER'; but you are making it a ROBBERS' DEN."...

I believe we are better served by honestly discussing ungodly management of money (power) in the hands of tyrants and wicked kings, contrasted to money (power) held by benevolent servants of God. The Bible is replete with this very example.

Remember, God answers one of the great questions of the ages in 1st Timothy, Chapter six, verse 10:

9 "But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.

10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness."


Though verse 10 is powerful and declarative; the preceding verse is profoundly explanatory, giving context to the monolithic relevance to "money," and all things attendant thereto. The nexus between money and man's decision to serve or reject God are entirely self evident and established by Him alone! The wisdom of God is evidenced here as men usually use "money" to "finance" sinful conduct, particularly as an ongoing course.

In short, we should accept this liberty to discuss openly what God, himself declares to be the very genesis of ALL evil. I believe this is about as religious, as a subject matter for discussion, it could ever get.

Thanks for allowing me to share my thoughts, I hope you do the same.

Maybe in your world you see money as the root of all evil. I don't, it's merely a source for barter, be it fiat, it's still an agreed upon system.
How you conduct yourself is your own business.
Don't waste your time with these ridiculous lengthy posts, I have no interest in your quotes on the matter. Like I said, money, regardless of whether you're exchanging food for labor, or sex, for rent it's still barter.
If I want something and someone is willing to trade me for it, that's my business.

Question is, are you under some illusion that there should be a law limiting ones wealth?

[ORIGINAL WILLARD]

Maybe in your world you see money as the root of all evil. I don't, it's merely a source for barter, be it fiat, it's still an agreed upon system.
How you conduct yourself is your own business.
Don't waste your time with these ridiculous lengthy posts, I have no interest in your quotes on the matter. Like I said, money, regardless of whether you're exchanging food for labor, or sex, for rent it's still barter.
If I want something and someone is willing to trade me for it, that's my business.

Question is, are you under some illusion that there should be a law limiting ones wealth?

I believe you misunderstood my position. The biblical narrative flat-out encourages wealth, period.....so do I! God issues a warning and a truth - The (LOVE) of money is the root of all evil....not (money)! Re-read the verses!

The Old and New Testament corroborate this principle. Many of God's servants were intensely wealthy.

God does not obstruct the gain of wealth, but opposes the ""love" of it. The context is given in the adjacent verses. Please review the preceding verse (verse 9) and subsequent verse (verse 11).

9.)  "But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.

10.) For the (love of money) is the root of all evil: (which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.)

11.) But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness."

Please forgive any lack of clarity on my part. God does not oppose wealth, even substantial personal wealth. The (LOVE OF MONEY) is what God considers the (ROOT) of evil.

This is too important to miss, please review these verses carefully. There is a distinction which presents an enormous difference and we must understand it.

As you see in verse 10, God qualifies his contention. If in the pursuit of wealth and success, man fails to recognize God's providence, and that everything in the earth was created by Him, then he invites the failure of building a life without God in it and refusing to recognize God's rightful Kingship.

I can see how I may have miscommunicated this material. I will attempt improvement.

You characterize my quotes as "ridiculous," and maybe mine are. However, if you had properly read the biblical verses properly, there would've been no missing it, and there would've been no misunderstanding.

Deception is free, but so is Truth!

Thanks for your post.

[Solar]

I believe you misunderstood my position. The biblical narrative flat-out encourages wealth, period.....so do I! God issues a warning and a truth - The (LOVE) of money is the root of all evil....not (money)! Re-read the verses!

The Old and New Testament corroborate this principle. Many of God's servants were intensely wealthy.

God does not obstruct the gain of wealth, but opposes the ""love" of it. The context is given in the adjacent verses. Please review the preceding verse (verse 9) and subsequent verse (verse 11).

9.)  "But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.

10.) For the (love of money) is the root of all evil: (which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.)

11.) But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness."

Please forgive any lack of clarity on my part. God does not oppose wealth, even substantial personal wealth. The (LOVE OF MONEY) is what God considers the (ROOT) of evil.

This is too important to miss, please review these verses carefully. There is a distinction which presents an enormous difference and we must understand it.

As you see in verse 10, God qualifies his contention. If in the pursuit of wealth and success, man fails to recognize God's providence, and that everything in the earth was created by Him, then he invites the failure of building a life without God in it and refusing to recognize God's rightful Kingship.

I can see how I may have miscommunicated this material. I will attempt improvement.

You characterize my quotes as "ridiculous," and maybe mine are. However, if you had properly read the biblical verses properly, there would've been no missing it, and there would've been no misunderstanding.

Deception is free, but so is Truth!

Thanks for your post.

All that, and you still didn't answer my question.

[ORIGINAL WILLARD]

All that, and you still didn't answer my question.

Unless I missed it, the only question you posed was as follows: "Question is, are you under some illusion that there should be a law limiting ones wealth?"

I believe I answered this in the first paragraph of my response, post no.#10:

ANSWER: "I believe you misunderstood my position. The biblical narrative flat-out encourages wealth, period.....so do I! God issues a warning and a truth - The (LOVE) of money is the root of all evil....not (money)! Re-read the verses!"

The phrase - "SO DO I" is salient here!

[Solar]

Unless I missed it, the only question you posed was as follows: "Question is, are you under some illusion that there should be a law limiting ones wealth?"

I believe I answered this in the first paragraph of my response, post no.#10:

ANSWER: "I believe you misunderstood my position. The biblical narrative flat-out encourages wealth, period.....so do I! God issues a warning and a truth - The (LOVE) of money is the root of all evil....not (money)! Re-read the verses!"

The phrase - "SO DO I" is salient here!

First off, I told you not to bother posting biblical quotes, I am more interested in what you have to say, not your interpretation of the bible.
So no, you didn't answer my question, and now you have.
Which raises another. Is it your point, that the US is inherently evil because a few have manipulated our system of barter, or that a chosen group that benefits from this action are?

Don't get me wrong, the whole fiat currency issue is destroying the country and we have Nixon to thank for it.
But is it your contention that God will punish the nation over the actions of a few?

[Darth Fife]

First off, I told you not to bother posting biblical quotes, I am more interested in what you have to say, not your interpretation of the bible.
So no, you didn't answer my question, and now you have.
Which raises another. Is it your point, that the US is inherently evil because a few have manipulated our system of barter, or that a chosen group that benefits from this action are?

Don't get me wrong, the whole fiat currency issue is destroying the country and we have Nixon to thank for it.
But is it your contention that God will punish the nation over the actions of a few?

I would place it earlier than Nixon! The downhill slide, in my not so humble opinion, began with Wilson and the establishment of the Federal Reserve.

Darth

[Solar]

I would place it earlier than Nixon! The downhill slide, in my not so humble opinion, began with Wilson and the establishment of the Federal Reserve.

Darth

Oh, no doubt, but I was noting the ability to print endless amounts of fiat cash with nothing to back it, but more useless fiat cash.
At least gold held us in check to a point.

[ORIGINAL WILLARD]

First off, I told you not to bother posting biblical quotes, I am more interested in what you have to say, not your interpretation of the bible.
So no, you didn't answer my question, and now you have.
Which raises another. Is it your point, that the US is inherently evil because a few have manipulated our system of barter, or that a chosen group that benefits from this action are?

Don't get me wrong, the whole fiat currency issue is destroying the country and we have Nixon to thank for it.
But is it your contention that God will punish the nation over the actions of a few?

Your post is fascinating! You've requested that I "not to bother posting biblical posts," indicating you're not interested in my interpretation of the Bible, yet requested that I answer two common theological questions....all in the very same post.

Respectfully, do you fail to see a contradiction here?

My answer to the first question is that Man is inherently evil, born into a fallen state of corruption in this dispensation.

My answer to the second question is one I don't like very much, but all known history and human nature bears its truth. This question is an area of thought deserving of reverence, study and understanding beyond what any of us could bring to bear on this board. An incomprehensive delving into this subject might be considered vulgar, absent due diligence to God's much deserved respect.

You've posed the question of whether "God will punish the nation over the actions of a few." I carry a dislike for offering my thoughts without presenting authoritative verses, but you've requested this to be so.  First of All, our creator does what he will. According to the biblical narrative, God's rebuke comes to individuals, families, churches, tribes and nations according to his sovereign will. We can see that God's favor and blessing can be directed in like fashion. A more interesting aspect of this is how "corporate judgment" is valued in God's spiritual economy.

The most heralded example of corporate judgment is the Adamic fall, where all of mankind would fall under judgment for the sins of another. While this remains ostensibly true, I believe this was more than punitive action, but a remedial correction so as to protect a progeny of future propagation of God's intended lineage.

It is my fervent belief that God institutionalized the doctrine of "my brother's keeper" into the agency of Holy governance. Therefore, predicated on this canonic truth, there is no such thing as "victimless sin."

Imagine, God ordained Jeremiah a prophet, before he was even born. Jeremiah was given to the world as a "prophet unto the nations," in an act of marvelous mercy towards us. Additionally, the entire book of Jeremiah was dedicated to the purpose of warning every dispensation of the profound dangers of "national sin," where a nation can "forget their God," committing open and willful sin before his eyes. Such nations are properly warned of this peril and are subject to corporate judgment and complete destruction.

Jeremiah 1 King James Version (KJV) The salient verse being verse (5)

1 "The words of Jeremiah the son of Hilkiah, of the priests that were in Anathoth in the land of Benjamin:

2 To whom the word of the Lord came in the days of Josiah the son of Amon king of Judah, in the thirteenth year of his reign.

3 It came also in the days of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah king of Judah, unto the end of the eleventh year of Zedekiah the son of Josiah king of Judah, unto the carrying away of Jerusalem captive in the fifth month.

4 Then the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,

5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

6 Then said I, Ah, Lord God! behold, I cannot speak: for I am a child.

7 But the Lord said unto me, Say not, I am a child: for thou shalt go to all that I shall send thee, and whatsoever I command thee thou shalt speak.

8 Be not afraid of their faces: for I am with thee to deliver thee, saith the Lord.

9 Then the Lord put forth his hand, and touched my mouth. And the Lord said unto me, Behold, I have put my words in thy mouth.

10 See, I have this day set thee over the nations and over the kingdoms, to root out, and to pull down, and to destroy, and to throw down, to build, and to plant.


Best wishes.

[Solar]

Your post is fascinating! You've requested that I "not to bother posting biblical posts," indicating you're not interested in my interpretation of the Bible, yet requested that I answer two common theological questions....all in the very same post.

Respectfully, do you fail to see a contradiction here?

And you fail to understand, I don't give a damn about quotes, rather your opinion, not one you've been programmed to give.

My answer to the first question is that Man is inherently evil, born into a fallen state of corruption in this dispensation.

And you'b be wrong, man is born a blank slate in majority.

My answer to the second question is one I don't like very much, but all known history and human nature bears its truth. This question is an area of thought deserving of reverence, study and understanding beyond what any of us could bring to bear on this board. An incomprehensive delving into this subject might be considered vulgar, absent due diligence to God's much deserved respect.

Mans nature is to conquer his surroundings, as is Gods way of a survival mechanism.
That survival of the fittest body or mind is wrong. Are you claiming God erred in doing so?

You've posed the question of whether "God will punish the nation over the actions of a few." I carry a dislike for offering my thoughts without presenting authoritative verses, but you've requested this to be so.  First of All, our creator does what he will. According to the biblical narrative, God's rebuke comes to individuals, families, churches, tribes and nations according to his sovereign will. We can see that God's favor and blessing can be directed in like fashion. A more interesting aspect of this is how "corporate judgment" is valued in God's spiritual economy.

So you have no answer.

The most heralded example of corporate judgment is the Adamic fall, where all of mankind would fall under judgment for the sins of another. While this remains ostensibly true, I believe this was more than punitive action, but a remedial correction so as to protect a progeny of future propagation of God's intended lineage.

It is my fervent belief that God institutionalized the doctrine of "my brother's keeper" into the agency of Holy governance. Therefore, predicated on this canonic truth, there is no such thing as "victimless sin."

Imagine, God ordained Jeremiah a prophet, before he was even born. Jeremiah was given to the world as a "prophet unto the nations," in an act of marvelous mercy towards us. Additionally, the entire book of Jeremiah was dedicated to the purpose of warning every dispensation of the profound dangers of "national sin," where a nation can "forget their God," committing open and willful sin before his eyes. Such nations are properly warned of this peril and are subject to corporate judgment and complete destruction.

So who bears responsibility for not informing the uninformed of gods word for those that sin, that God will rebuke them regardless?
Is it their fault that they were never taught right or wrong in your understanding of right and wrong, or rather your interpretation of the term?
This is akin to the belief that those whom fail to accept Christ as their savior are doomed, yet if they've never heard the word, would this not reflect back on the failures of missionaries?
In other words, you, by your own admittance, are responsible for not teaching Gods word, and must bear responsibility, becoming your brothers keeper, as in responsible for their every action. Kind of a catch 22.

Jeremiah 1 King James Version (KJV) The salient verse being verse (5)

1 "The words of Jeremiah the son of Hilkiah, of the priests that were in Anathoth in the land of Benjamin:

2 To whom the word of the Lord came in the days of Josiah the son of Amon king of Judah, in the thirteenth year of his reign.

3 It came also in the days of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah king of Judah, unto the end of the eleventh year of Zedekiah the son of Josiah king of Judah, unto the carrying away of Jerusalem captive in the fifth month.

4 Then the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,

5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

6 Then said I, Ah, Lord God! behold, I cannot speak: for I am a child.

7 But the Lord said unto me, Say not, I am a child: for thou shalt go to all that I shall send thee, and whatsoever I command thee thou shalt speak.

8 Be not afraid of their faces: for I am with thee to deliver thee, saith the Lord.

9 Then the Lord put forth his hand, and touched my mouth. And the Lord said unto me, Behold, I have put my words in thy mouth.

10 See, I have this day set thee over the nations and over the kingdoms, to root out, and to pull down, and to destroy, and to throw down, to build, and to plant.

Don't give a damn.

Best wishes.

[Darth Fife]

My answer to the first question is that Man is inherently evil, born into a fallen state of corruption in this dispensation.

And, yet, the Bible says that God created man in his own image and likeness.

How could a perfect, loving, omnipotent God, create something - in his own image and likeness - that is "inherently evil"?

Or, having created something that, through no fault of God's own, became corrupted and "inherently evil" how could God allow such evil perversion of his divine creation to continue to exist?

Darth 

[Solar]

And, yet, the Bible says that God created man in his own image and likeness.

How could a perfect, loving, omnipotent God, create something - in his own image and likeness - that is "inherently evil"?

Or, having created something that, through no fault of God's own, became corrupted and "inherently evil" how could God allow such evil perversion of his divine creation to continue to exist?

Darth

Now you've done it.
Get ready for a bunch of biblical quotes, due to his inability for debate.

[Bob R]

 Our faith belongs in God. Republicans can not save us. God has made them impotent.

  So,that means God is a democrat????




Bob R

[ORIGINAL WILLARD]

And, yet, the Bible says that God created man in his own image and likeness.

How could a perfect, loving, omnipotent God, create something - in his own image and likeness - that is "inherently evil"?

Or, having created something that, through no fault of God's own, became corrupted and "inherently evil" how could God allow such evil perversion of his divine creation to continue to exist?

Darth

You ask great questions, to be sure! I could never provide greater answers to these questions than those given by God, himself. Contrary to my unfriendly poster-friend's summation, I'm not here for debate, or to impose my beliefs on anyone. I'm a simple sinner, saved by grace, thankful that God cares about the Earth and all who dwell herein. Most of all, I'm thankful that God calls upon every man to accept him for who he is, love him back, and join him in eternity as joint heirs with his son - in whom he is well pleased! It is never my choice, but I will honor any request to refrain from preemptively engaging another poster.

If we acknowledge the "dispensational" evolution of God's creation, it's easier to understand biblical text when it speaks to different time periods. Without delving into a study of a pre-Adamic period and subsequent dispensations leading to the present closing of the "dispensation of grace," otherwise known as the current "church age;" I'll only offer my best understanding of any given subject, as I'm constantly learning like everyone else.

I love the Genesis scripture you're referencing and I'd like to examine it quickly. Genesis: chapter 1

26 "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth."

When considering what's actually being spoken in these verses, I hope you'll take pause to truly think.

In verse 26 it's clear there's a discussion between the three personages of the God-head (a plurality of three...known as the Trinity), whereupon the decision is announced that they have not only created us, but have given us "dominion" over a new world and essentially everything in it. I say, Love is the answer, because the Bible makes it clear that it is so. Only a loving God, of benevolent intent, would gift his newly created family with such immense blessing. God calls himself our Father because he is, and has proven himself to be. God recognizes his own Holiness, yet announces pleasure in his children (sinners all), in whom he created in his "own likeness."

You pose one of the great questions of the ages when asking why a divine God would institute "free agency" in mortal man. I believe it's easier to conceptualize the answer than we pretend. If we're made in God's loving likeness, why wouldn't we share a shadowing of the capacity for love. Even better, this becomes evidence that God wants to be "loved back." We are "like unto him" in an array of attributes, but in a war with sin in our current fallen state as well. God called his family to be fruitful, and to multiply. This evidences the intent for future collaboration with man, who God so loves.  I want my children to love me in their own volition and free will, not because they're programmed to do so.

I'd like to say to you that everyone has failed God. The great patriarchs of the Bible failed Him, The prophets failed Him, the Disciples failed Him, The Kings failed Him, The Judges failed Him and I fail Him daily. Only one sinless human being ever lived - the living, resurrected Son of God.

It's easy for me to understand the reality of God's incredible love for all mankind. I have studied the word of God for the better part of my life. I'm strong in conviction because it's inescapable when reaching the point of comprehensive study, along with the decision to stop trying to do battle with him.:) I assure you, it has nothing to do with me being smart...I'm not! I allowed the world to stomp the morbid hell out of me when I eventually began to ask questions with an open mind.

In closing, please allow me to say this dispensation is closing at breathtaking speed. God has expended every energy of his servants to plead with our people to understand simple fundamentals of who we are, why are we here, where are we going....and why?

God will soon give the world what they're asking for - a world without Him in it! It's called the tribulation. Its a period marked by all but complete destruction of this Earth. There will come another.  John 5: 43 "I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive." The Bible makes it clear that a "King of fierce countenance" (Anti-Christ) will soon assume global authority, first in the name of peace. He will later reign terror upon the Earth with unspeakable cruelty.  Thank God, I won't be here.

Everyone enjoys offering John, 3:16. I like the following verses better.


16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."


There is much on our horizon to be "saved" from, and I want my brothers with me.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

[Rasputttin]

What area?

North Fulton County. Rep. Tom Price R-Ga