A recent caller to the Rush Limbaugh show is the embodiment of how PREACHERS have led America to forsake God! The transcript of the call is at: http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2015/07/14/has_god_forsaken_america_or_has_america_forsaken_god
His words alone are bad enough. But even worse is what you could hear on the air, but can't feel in print. That is his smug, superior tone of voice. He was completely SELF-righteous! Without a shred of TRUE righteousness!
He is the embodiment of the expression "too heavenly minded to be of any earthly good."
He THINKS he's engaging in "spiritual warfare." The only thing he's actually engaging in is DELUSION! Both of himself and of his congregation! His prayers are completely worthless, both on Earth AND in Heaven!
He is a perfect example of the apostasy that has almost completely destroyed the modern church - the overspiritualization of everything - always behaving as if just prayer and contemplation is all God ever commanded. You have to throw away most of the Bible to believe that!
He likes to quote scripture. He needs to be introduced to James 2:14-26 (Faith without works is dead - such faith will not save you!)
and James 4:17 "If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn't do it, it is sin for them."
and Acts 26:20 "... they should repent and turn to God and demonstrate their repentance by their deeds. "
The Bible does concern itself with what people think, but it concerns itself massively much more with what people DO!
That guy is just making up excuses to NOT DO what the Bible says!
He is completely ignorant of both American history AND Christian history!
He knows nothing of stewardship. He needs to read "A Parable" at: http://www.cpnlive.com/forum/post/1431361 Actually, EVERY believer needs to read that page!
For the last few decades (at least) there are 30 million evangelicals who never vote!
If all 30 million would at least make even THAT little bit of effort, the heathen would be wiped out of government! They would be such a small minority that they would be completely powerless!
If all 30 million would just register and vote for someone like Ted Cruz - IN THE PRIMARY - we could throw the heathen out of power IN ONE YEAR!
Many church people complain, "There's no one to vote for" and "If you vote for the lesser of two evils, you're still voting for evil."
ALL THOSE LAZY CHURCH PEOPLE WHO NEVER VOTE IN THE PRIMARY ARE THE REASON "THERE'S NO ONE TO VOTE FOR!"
That caller gets exactly to the heart of why we're losing civilization!
He (and millions like him) are THE CAUSE!
P.S. - Please do not move this article to the Religion forum. Doing so would be the same thing the left does - they marginalize religion.
The fact is, it was religion that CREATED America! It was religion that motivated and guided the founders.
It was the Bible that informed their understanding of justice, which guided their legislation.
It is the removal of religion from public knowledge that removed the obstacles and allowed the left to seize power and enslave the people!
It is GOD from whom all legitimate authority flows!
It is the denial of God (giving only lip service IS denial!) that makes the current regime an illegitimate government, like a street gang!
It is impossible to restore America without restoring Christianity to its rightful place in our culture!
(These days, Christianity needs to be restored to its rightful place in the CHURCHES!)
OUTSTANDING post! You have superbly explained it.
We cannot relegate the principle cornerstone of this Nation to the sidelines!
We would all do well to carry this message to the uttermost parts of our spheres of influence!
Many thanks!
Shouldn't it be: How Some Churches Led Some Americans To Forsake God... ?
The broad brush doesn't work here.
Quote from: kit saginaw on July 16, 2015, 05:21:07 AM
Shouldn't it be: How Some Churches Led Some Americans To Forsake God... ?
The broad brush doesn't work here.
You have to look long and hard to find a church today that has not been tainted by this cancer. Therefore we have millions of Americans being led down the primrose path of false teaching......
Unfortunately it is the younger generation who has never been exposed to the pure doctrines of the Church. It is the social gospel that is most prevalent in this Nation..... which is devoid of hard truth.
As the Apostle Paul aptly says in I Corinthians...... you cannot handle the "meat" of the word...I must give you milk only. He chastised them for being infant Christians when they should have been mature by then. So, how long had they been believers? .... about four years!
We have infantile Churches in need of meat.
P.S. - Please do not move this article to the Religion forum. Doing so would be the same thing the left does - they marginalize religion.
The fact is, it was religion that CREATED America! It was religion that motivated and guided the founders.
It was the Bible that informed their understanding of justice, which guided their legislation.
It is the removal of religion from public knowledge that removed the obstacles and allowed the left to seize power and enslave the people!
It is GOD from whom all legitimate authority flows!
It is the denial of God (giving only lip service IS denial!) that makes the current regime an illegitimate government, like a street gang!
It is impossible to restore America without restoring Christianity to its rightful place in our culture!
hhmm.... it is sort of like trumpeting the sacredness of the Second Amendment while agreeing that all the ammo should be allowed only at a separate out of the way location..... because it is really irrelevant to gun ownership.
Quote from: je_freedom on July 15, 2015, 09:02:21 PM
P.S. - Please do not move this article to the Religion forum. Doing so would be the same thing the left does - they marginalize religion.
You just, by subconscious innuendo, marginalized it.
This Religious-forum isn't marginal. It
breathes. It's specific.
I don't think God's a big fan of followers
worshiping themselves worshiping Him. That's not how it's supposed to work.
Quote from: kit saginaw on July 16, 2015, 08:47:55 AM
I don't think God's a big fan of followers worshiping themselves worshiping Him. That's not how it's supposed to work.
Would you elaborate on that statement?
kit saginaw said:
Quote
You just, by subconscious innuendo, marginalized it.
This Religious-forum isn't marginal. It breathes. It's specific.
Here's what I meant by marginalized:
Political Discussion and Debate 194097 Posts 14106 Topics
Religion Forum 2988 Posts 195 Topics
Quote from: je_freedom on July 16, 2015, 11:09:56 AM
kit saginaw said:
Here's what I meant by marginalized:
Political Discussion and Debate 194097 Posts 14106 Topics
Religion Forum 2988 Posts 195 Topics
Now, look at view comparative to posts, you'll find that this forum gets more views to posts than that of Poli.
You wholly underestimate the value of this forum.
There is a reason these two are separated, why politics and religion do not cross paths on poli.
To allow this would be conceding defeat to Marxism and it's war on religion in connecting faith to politics.
Quote from: Solar on July 18, 2015, 07:18:12 AM
Now, look at view comparative to posts, you'll find that this forum gets more views to posts than that of Poli.
You wholly underestimate the value of this forum.
There is a reason these two are separated, why politics and religion do not cross paths on poli.
To allow this would be conceding defeat to Marxism and it's war on religion in connecting faith to politics.
How does this concede defeat to Marxism?
We must embrace the truth that it is indeed a war on religion. Why? Because God has always been our "might" as a Nation. If we attempt to fight this battle apart from God, we will lose. No question about it.
ALL political systems are based upon some form of "faith". Look back through history. All governments were classified as either pagan or "civilized" religions. Christianity is an integral part of what made our system work properly in the beginning. You cannot separate the substance from the sustainer.
To ignore the fundamental foundation of judeo christianity to our system of government is akin to denying islam as fundamental to ISIS and terrorism. I don't mean to be critical of the system on this forum, but all of the political social issues are founded in biblical teaching and even the fiscal issues should be guided by biblical principles. Our Founders set up the system to work upon biblical principles in all senses..... justice, etc.
The reason why our nation has fallen into economic and cultural chaos is because we have allowed the government to separate us from our foundation. They should be inseparable. God has been the glue that held us all together over the centuries. He is the mortar between each stone in our national structure. When we refuse to acknowledge His power and providential control over us, He will leave us to reap what we sow. We cannot successfully steer this ship without Him.
It is difficult to discuss almost any political issue without either invoking God or scripture.
Quote from: kroz on July 18, 2015, 02:31:51 PM
How does this concede defeat to Marxism?
We must embrace the truth that it is indeed a war on religion. Why? Because God has always been our "might" as a Nation. If we attempt to fight this battle apart from God, we will lose. No question about it.
ALL political systems are based upon some form of "faith". Look back through history. All governments were classified as either pagan or "civilized" religions. Christianity is an integral part of what made our system work properly in the beginning. You cannot separate the substance from the sustainer.
To ignore the fundamental foundation of judeo christianity to our system of government is akin to denying islam as fundamental to ISIS and terrorism. I don't mean to be critical of the system on this forum, but all of the political social issues are founded in biblical teaching and even the fiscal issues should be guided by biblical principles. Our Founders set up the system to work upon biblical principles in all senses..... justice, etc.
The reason why our nation has fallen into economic and cultural chaos is because we have allowed the government to separate us from our foundation. They should be inseparable. God has been the glue that held us all together over the centuries. He is the mortar between each stone in our national structure. When we refuse to acknowledge His power and providential control over us, He will leave us to reap what we sow. We cannot successfully steer this ship without Him.
It is difficult to discuss almost any political issue without either invoking God or scripture.
But it has to be this way, or every thread would wind up a discussion on religion, a very personal topic for all involved.
Unlike Conservatism, where we all share the same core values, where we can discuss freely in agreement, but throw in religion, and suddenly no one can agree on every issue, so they remain separate on this forum.
Take my word for it, I've been doing this for years, and to allow these elements to blend in politics would kill a very successful forum.
The Marxists are all about divide and conquer, and religion is no different, they are politicizing it, and by keeping the two separate from politics, does not allow them a win.
Quote from: Solar on July 18, 2015, 03:07:25 PM
But it has to be this way, or every thread would wind up a discussion on religion, a very personal topic for all involved.
Unlike Conservatism, where we all share the same core values, where we can discuss freely in agreement, but throw in religion, and suddenly no one can agree on every issue, so they remain separate on this forum.
Take my word for it, I've been doing this for years, and to allow these elements to blend in politics would kill a very successful forum.
The Marxists are all about divide and conquer, and religion is no different, they are politicizing it, and by keeping the two separate from politics, does not allow them a win.
It is your forum. I will play by the rules. :wink:
Read Revelation chapters 2 & 3, and you will see that nothing has changed in almost 2000 years.
Quote from: tac on July 18, 2015, 03:22:53 PM
Read Revelation chapters 2 & 3, and you will see that nothing has changed in almost 2000 years.
tac, nothing much has changed since the beginning of recorded history. Man has known God but not honored Him.... suffered the consequences...... repented..... found God's mercy.....and repeated the cycle. Read the Book of Judges!
Quote from: Solar on July 18, 2015, 03:07:25 PM
But it has to be this way, or every thread would wind up a discussion on religion, a very personal topic for all involved.
Unlike Conservatism, where we all share the same core values, where we can discuss freely in agreement, but throw in religion, and suddenly no one can agree on every issue, so they remain separate on this forum.
Take my word for it, I've been doing this for years, and to allow these elements to blend in politics would kill a very successful forum.
The Marxists are all about divide and conquer, and religion is no different, they are politicizing it, and by keeping the two separate from politics, does not allow them a win.
I have been doing Political Forum for 25+ years. I have seen 4 Political boards go down in that time, as they let Religion take over ever board on there forum. Not everyone thinks alike on religion and that's not a problem with me, as we all have a right. But a cult is not a religion, they don't have rights. They are controlled, you just don't walk out the door if you don't like it. If you do you can end up dead.
Quote from: kroz on July 18, 2015, 03:17:31 PM
It is your forum. I will play by the rules. :wink:
Point being, not everyone is religious, while some are agnostic, Hindu etc, what happens is, sides are taken, arguments breakout, people leave, and all that's left is a few agreeing on a couple of daily posts and the forum collapses along with our audience.
Based on what people post, less than half of the forum is religious.
According to Quantcast, regular posters. And note our global reach is huge, as well as our percentages increasing monthly.
If you look at the stats, you'll see that the forum is growing exponentially monthly, and this is because we talk straight politics.
I'm not so much posting to you, but to everyone that reads this forum.Active 187
Somewhat Active 84
DOMAINS TRAFFIC
JUN 18, 2015 - JUL 17, 2015 UNITED STATES in RED. GLOBAL
People (regular visitors) 6,240 +17% 7,616 +23%
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https://www.quantcast.com/conservativepoliticalforum.com#!traffic
Quote from: kroz on July 16, 2015, 08:56:38 AM
Would you elaborate on that statement?
I could, but you already know what I mean. Churches are for
fellowship.
Quote from: kroz on July 18, 2015, 03:31:46 PM
tac, nothing much has changed since the beginning of recorded history. Man has known God but not honored Him.... suffered the consequences...... repented..... found God's mercy.....and repeated the cycle. Read the Book of Judges!
I think you missed my point. Rev 2 & 3 are directed to the 7 churches and only one had nothing said against it. The rest are just like the churches today. That's the point I was making.
Maybe the thing to do would be to do as I've seen on this forum:
When a topic gets moved to another category,
leave a pointer in the original location directing the readers to the new location.
I'd be happy with that.
Quote from: je_freedom on July 18, 2015, 08:09:13 PM
Maybe the thing to do would be to do as I've seen on this forum:
When a topic gets moved to another category,
leave a pointer in the original location directing the readers to the new location.
I'd be happy with that.
Used to, but it got to the point where all you saw was redirect posts cluttering poli, so now it's up to the member to know where posts belong.
You'll figure it out, you're new, it's takes a little while.
Quote from: Solar on July 18, 2015, 08:49:26 PM
Used to, but it got to the point where all you saw was redirect posts cluttering poli, so now it's up to the member to know where posts belong.
You'll figure it out, you're new, it's takes a little while.
If you can not find a post. Click on your name then click on Show Posts, you can find it that way. If by another person click on there name and then Show Posts. You can find a post(s) that way.
Quote from: kroz on July 16, 2015, 06:06:56 AM
You have to look long and hard to find a church today that has not been tainted by this cancer. Therefore we have millions of Americans being led down the primrose path of false teaching......
Unfortunately it is the younger generation who has never been exposed to the pure doctrines of the Church. It is the social gospel that is most prevalent in this Nation..... which is devoid of hard truth.
As the Apostle Paul aptly says in I Corinthians...... you cannot handle the "meat" of the word...I must give you milk only. He chastised them for being infant Christians when they should have been mature by then. So, how long had they been believers? .... about four years!
We have infantile Churches in need of meat.
Then you need to look longer and harder. My question would be, "Would people know orthodoxy when they see it?" Or would they say "No, that's too Protestant/Catholic/Evangelical for me"?
I've often heard people talking about wanting an authentic first century Church. Start one and see if you can get anybody to come to it. No, they EXPECT air conditioned spaces and stained glass windows and such. Try one of the ancient liturgies for your service and see how many come back. Some churches take advantage of this and simply give the people what they want. My Church gives the people what they need.
Quote from: Reverend on July 19, 2015, 03:40:19 AM
Then you need to look longer and harder. My question would be, "Would people know orthodoxy when they see it?" Or would they say "No, that's too Protestant/Catholic/Evangelical for me"?
I've often heard people talking about wanting an authentic first century Church. Start one and see if you can get anybody to come to it. No, they EXPECT air conditioned spaces and stained glass windows and such. Try one of the ancient liturgies for your service and see how many come back. Some churches take advantage of this and simply give the people what they want. My Church gives the people what they need.
I would agree with that admonition. Good churches can STILL be found..... but it takes perseverance.
And as previously stated..... most people would not recognize solid theological doctrine from error. It takes a lot of personal commitment to study of scripture AND reading great theologians who have spent much more time than we have researching and studying.
But the truth is that most people (who are even willing to attend church) want to hear a message that makes them feel good. That is the trademark of many mega churches like Joel Osteen's........ Hard truth can be difficult for people to handle. They don't like hearing about sin and the promise of persecution to disciples of Jesus Christ. But persecution is what makes us stronger and closer to God's ideal.
Quote from: tac on July 18, 2015, 06:15:52 PM
I think you missed my point. Rev 2 & 3 are directed to the 7 churches and only one had nothing said against it. The rest are just like the churches today. That's the point I was making.
Oh, okay. I agree with that.
Quote from: kit saginaw on July 18, 2015, 04:37:38 PM
I could, but you already know what I mean. Churches are for fellowship.
No I did not know what you meant. I believe you were using sarcasm....... people just go to church for social reasons.
I get that and agree. It is unfortunate.
Quote from: kroz on July 19, 2015, 12:18:43 PM
I would agree with that admonition. Good churches can STILL be found..... but it takes perseverance.
And as previously stated..... most people would not recognize solid theological doctrine from error. It takes a lot of personal commitment to study of scripture AND reading great theologians who have spent much more time than we have researching and studying.
But the truth is that most people (who are even willing to attend church) want to hear a message that makes them feel good. That is the trademark of many mega churches like Joel Osteen's........ Hard truth can be difficult for people to handle. They don't like hearing about sin and the promise of persecution to disciples of Jesus Christ. But persecution is what makes us stronger and closer to God's ideal.
I agree: the reason most people are ignorant is because they read stuff like Joel Osteen and Joyce Meyers. BUT, it doesn't have to be that way. A good 25% of the stuff I read in Seminary (historic Christianity) is available in the public domain, you don't have to pay for it. You have to know where to look, but that's not difficult, either. There are also some great resources on Biblical exegesis, such as the Blue Letter Bible, on the internet.
Why don't you start a study group, here, at home, at your Church?
Quote from: Reverend on July 19, 2015, 01:01:40 PM
I agree: the reason most people are ignorant is because they read stuff like Joel Osteen and Joyce Meyers. BUT, it doesn't have to be that way. A good 25% of the stuff I read in Seminary (historic Christianity) is available in the public domain, you don't have to pay for it. You have to know where to look, but that's not difficult, either. There are also some great resources on Biblical exegesis, such as the Blue Letter Bible, on the internet.
Why don't you start a study group, here, at home, at your Church?
Good advice.
I have been using the Blue Letter Bible for years. And I have also taught many ladies bible classes in my home and at church.
For many years I taught "Precept Upon Precept".... an inductive study program written by Kay Arthur... who happens to be a personal friend of mine.
Going directly to the scriptures and using an exhaustive Concordance and Greek/Hebrew dictionaries will certainly go a long way in reducing any error in understanding of the Truth.
But it all requires a hunger for truth and a disciplined commitment to study.
Quote from: kroz on July 19, 2015, 01:08:37 PM
Good advice.
I have been using the Blue Letter Bible for years. And I have also taught many ladies bible classes in my home and at church.
For many years I taught "Precept Upon Precept".... an inductive study program written by Kay Arthur... who happens to be a personal friend of mine.
Going directly to the scriptures and using an exhaustive Concordance and Greek/Hebrew dictionaries will certainly go a long way in reducing any error in understanding of the Truth.
But it all requires a hunger for truth and a disciplined commitment to study.
I actually have Kay Arthur's book and I recommend it highly. My wife taught Bible studies for years and was never at a loss for students. The point is, it strikes me that you have a ministry that could go a long way to alleviating our culture's problem. I don't know if you currently belong to a faith tradition, and nobody can do everything, but everybody can do something. You are needed now more than ever.
Here are some study groups on CCEL:
http://www.ccel.org/groups
Quote from: Reverend on July 19, 2015, 05:30:13 PM
I actually have Kay Arthur's book and I recommend it highly. My wife taught Bible studies for years and was never at a loss for students. The point is, it strikes me that you have a ministry that could go a long way to alleviating our culture's problem. I don't know if you currently belong to a faith tradition, and nobody can do everything, but everybody can do something. You are needed now more than ever.
Here are some study groups on CCEL:
http://www.ccel.org/groups
Thank you. I do everything I can.
Quote from: Reverend on July 19, 2015, 01:01:40 PM
Why don't you start a study group, here, at home, at your Church?
That may be a move for Kroz to give careful consideration to. She is a natural teacher with all the other qualifications. The church I attend now started in the pastor's home some 50 years ago. Non-denominational home worship is growing.
There have been a few points made that struck me.
1) Over doing the spiritual. We could call it the feel good. Again, we should search the scriptures. I recently took up the invitation to feed back and spoke against familiar spirits, New Age Tarot, movies like "Ghost," witchcraft, that sort of thing. Some of the congregation were taken by surprise.
2) According to some, the evangelical movement is a deception. The idea is that as the left infiltrated the main line, on its path to destroying the institutional power, it had to create some place for the conservative Christians, the true believers, to go after they had been run off. Some evangelical services resemble show business. The main thing, though, has been the destruction of the institutions.
3) Media evangelists have long been the subjects of controversy, probably since the first radio jock put the first microphone in the first tent meeting. We must be very careful, if we are committed to truth, that is, with our assessments. At the same time, the evangelists should be careful as to how they structure their organizations and how they manipulate the content. Billy Sunday was preaching on a flat bed truck. A film maker turned on the camera. The rest, I am told is history.
4) There really is no line of authority with media evangelists and mega church preachers. It is a form of free enterprise. Remember, it was Billy Graham who bailed out Martin Luther King, and later virtually told us Protestants that what King was doing was just and right. We fell in line. Graham also legitimized some war activity that we later discovered had highly questionable origins; but, he was Billy Graham, by golly, America's preacher. Who's to argue? That's a lot of power for someone to basically create for himself.
https://youtu.be/bOzEx3sY1n8
Quote from: red_dirt on July 27, 2015, 01:53:41 PM
That may be a move for Kroz to give careful consideration to. She is a natural teacher with all the other qualifications. The church I attend now started in the pastor's home some 50 years ago. Non-denominational home worship is growing.
There have been a few points made that struck me.
1) Over doing the spiritual. We could call it the feel good. Again, we should search the scriptures. I recently took up the invitation to feed back and spoke against familiar spirits, New Age Tarot, movies like "Ghost," witchcraft, that sort of thing. Some of the congregation were taken by surprise.
2) According to some, the evangelical movement is a deception. The idea is that as the left infiltrated the main line, on its path to destroying the institutional power, it had to create some place for the conservative Christians, the true believers, to go after they had been run off. Some evangelical services resemble show business. The main thing, though, has been the destruction of the institutions.
3) Media evangelists have long been the subjects of controversy, probably since the first radio jock put the first microphone in the first tent meeting. We must be very careful, if we are committed to truth, that is, with our assessments. At the same time, the evangelists should be careful as to how they structure their organizations and how they manipulate the content. Billy Sunday was preaching on a flat bed truck. A film maker turned on the camera. The rest, I am told is history.
4) There really is no line of authority with media evangelists and mega church preachers. It is a form of free enterprise. Remember, it was Billy Graham who bailed out Martin Luther King, and later virtually told us Protestants that what King was doing was just and right. We fell in line. Graham also legitimized some war activity that we later discovered had highly questionable origins; but, he was Billy Graham, by golly, America's preacher. Who's to argue? That's a lot of power for someone to basically create for himself.
https://youtu.be/bOzEx3sY1n8
It is not over doing the spiritual that is the problem. It is the overdoing of the physical expression of spirituality. There is a big difference.
A case study would be Charles Finney. He was the first great charismatic evangelist. He criss crossed the country with his evangelistic tent meetings. He created the "anxious bench" which he placed at the from of the audience and invited sinners to come to the bench and openly confess their sins. That was the beginning of the tradition of making "alter calls" at the end of a sermon. It was Finney who also began "slaying people in the spirit"! They would fall over on the floor when he touched them. ..... ala Benny Hinn today!
Decades after that supposedly first "great awakening" across America, Finney returned to the sites where he had first preached to the thousands. The odd thing is that he found the people had not changed one iota after he left town. They returned to their same sinful ways. So he deemed his ministry a failure.
The true Spirit of God changes lives.
We were warned about this phenomenon. False prophecy. "Many will be deceived." Wolves clothed as sheep. Etc.
When a church, evangelist, pastor, ec. takes it upon themselves to preach only those parts of Gospel that make people feel good, they are guilty of false prophecy. The teachings of Christ were not all warm fuzzies. We are to cut off our hands, or pluck out our eyes, if they cause us to sin, because "it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire."
"The Kingdom of Heaven is like..." Christ gave us several examples, many of which included the idea of chaff being separated from the wheat, and then cast into unquenchable fire.
ANYONE who thinks forgiveness is automatic, that "whosoever believes" is all it takes are putting themselves in danger of having Christ tell them "I know you not." No one but the Father can say who actually will receive salvation, and who will be condemned. But we need to know what we have to do to give ourselves the best chance at salvation. Christ gave us all the hints we need, and those hints include following God's Laws, and doing things His way - NOT our own way.
Quote from: Reverend on July 19, 2015, 01:01:40 PM
I agree: the reason most people are ignorant is because they read stuff like Joel Osteen and Joyce Meyers. BUT, it doesn't have to be that way. A good 25% of the stuff I read in Seminary (historic Christianity) is available in the public domain, you don't have to pay for it. You have to know where to look, but that's not difficult, either. There are also some great resources on Biblical exegesis, such as the Blue Letter Bible, on the internet.
Why don't you start a study group, here, at home, at your Church?
Here is a good source (http://www.ccel.org/fathers.html)for the teachings of the early church fathers.
Quote from: tac on July 27, 2015, 07:59:13 PM
Here is a good source (http://www.ccel.org/fathers.html)for the teachings of the early church fathers.
Mail line Protestantism was not dismantled overnight. It was a very deliberate and long term mission, driven, really, by covetousness. What was coveted? Why, the wealth and positions of the generations of Protestants, positions acquired over the years from the mid 1500's to the early 1900's, or, possibly up until the first and second world wars.
The Protestant ethic was open and welcoming. Immigration policy proceeded in cycles of immigrate/assimilate. The country would open the doors only after the previous wave was deemed to have assimilated, during which period the needs of the nation were debated to decide what the next wave of immigration should concentrate on. America has always had that luxury of picking and choosing.
Paradoxically, the centers of immigration, the cities, have always had unusual political power, owing to the democratic system. Up until the 1840's, immigrants normally made the initial adjustment in the cities, then spread out to the outer limits, agricultural or developing cities outside New York, Boston, Philadelphia, or New Haven.
The change in the 1840's is that the immigrants turned down the offers to spread out. They preferred to remain and take over the cities. This was when the modern Democratic organizations really took the present form.
Pitiful Washington management looked the other way. Next thing you know, we arrive at the present. Incidentally, socialism and communism may well have not been on the early radar screen of the Democrats. Never the less, that's what we have been warned will come in as a solution once the Democrats run out of other people's money.
Quote from: zewazir on July 27, 2015, 07:53:53 PM
We were warned about this phenomenon. False prophecy. "Many will be deceived." Wolves clothed as sheep. Etc.
When a church, evangelist, pastor, ec. takes it upon themselves to preach only those parts of Gospel that make people feel good, they are guilty of false prophecy. The teachings of Christ were not all warm fuzzies. We are to cut off our hands, or pluck out our eyes, if they cause us to sin, because "it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire."
"The Kingdom of Heaven is like..." Christ gave us several examples, many of which included the idea of chaff being separated from the wheat, and then cast into unquenchable fire.
ANYONE who thinks forgiveness is automatic, that "whosoever believes" is all it takes are putting themselves in danger of having Christ tell them "I know you not." No one but the Father can say who actually will receive salvation, and who will be condemned. But we need to know what we have to do to give ourselves the best chance at salvation. Christ gave us all the hints we need, and those hints include following God's Laws, and doing things His way - NOT our own way.
1 John 5:13 says..
These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may
know that you have eternal life.
We are not intended to worry about salvation. And there is nothing that WE do to save ourselves. It is the free gift of God according to His loving mercy.
And the new covenant given to us by Jesus Christ is written on our hearts.... not tablets of stone.
For those hung up on being good enough... doing enough good works...following old testament law.... NONE of that will work. No one was able to follow the mosaic law except Jesus Christ. NO ONE is good enough to enter heaven on their own merit.
It is the grace of God that saves some of us.... otherwise we would all be condemned to hell.
Jesus said, "If you do not deny me before men, I will not deny you before God."
There is hope, and man, by his will and ways, can influence the outcome. It is unfair to say that it is all out of our hands. That grace is the servant standing at the door. When the master inside says, "Let them in," not until then will the servant open the door. What caused the master to issue the command? Only the false prophet claims he has that influence. He does not.
On Earth, Jesus Christ rewarded faithfulness. Love is not in vain.
The man has been among us who "traveled," as it were, between the two worlds, the Earthly and the Heavenly kingdoms. We can hear stories of people "dying" on the operating table, then telling us about it. But it is the Saviour who has the true testimony. Popular culture would like to influence our every thought on these matters. People watch "Ghost" and come away thinking Demi Moore, Patrick Swayze, and Whoopie Goldberg have given them insight. What nonsense! We can only search the scriptures and search our hearts for those clues.
Quote from: red_dirt on July 28, 2015, 08:21:17 PM
Jesus said, "If you do not deny me before men, I will not deny you before God."
There is hope, and man, by his will and ways, can influence the outcome. It is unfair to say that it is all out of our hands. That grace is the servant standing at the door. When the master inside says, "Let them in," not until then will the servant open the door. What caused the master to issue the command? Only the false prophet claims he has that influence. He does not.
On Earth, Jesus Christ rewarded faithfulness. Love is not in vain.
The man has been among us who "traveled," as it were, between the two worlds, the Earthly and the Heavenly kingdoms. We can hear stories of people "dying" on the operating table, then telling us about it. But it is the Saviour who has the true testimony. Popular culture would like to influence our every thought on these matters. People watch "Ghost" and come away thinking Demi Moore, Patrick Swayze, and Whoopie Goldberg have given them insight. What nonsense! We can only search the scriptures and search our hearts for those clues.
Scripture says that there are none who seek after God. What does that mean?
It means that WE do not initiate our own salvation. How do we know that? Jesus tells us.....
John 6:44
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.
Even our desire to seek God is initiated by God. God draws us and convicts us of our sins. That conviction is the work of the Holy Spirit. Apart for the convicting work of the HS, we do not seek after God's gracious gift.
Yes, we do play an important part in the process. We respond to God with a contrite heart. And we will not deny Him before men because His Spirit indwells us. We cannot deny that which is within us and is our seal for eternity.
Jesus also said:
Jhn 6:37
"
All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.
Jhn 6:38
"For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
Jhn 6:39
"This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of
all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.
This is strong doctrinal teaching that is difficult for some.
Quote from: kroz on August 04, 2015, 01:36:41 PM
Scripture says that there are none who seek after God. What does that mean?
It means that WE do not initiate our own salvation. How do we know that? Jesus tells us.....
John 6:44
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.
Even our desire to seek God is initiated by God. God draws us and convicts us of our sins. That conviction is the work of the Holy Spirit. Apart for the convicting work of the HS, we do not seek after God's gracious gift.
Yes, we do play an important part in the process. We respond to God with a contrite heart. And we will not deny Him before men because His Spirit indwells us. We cannot deny that which is within us and is our seal for eternity.
Jesus also said:
Jhn 6:37
"All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.
Jhn 6:38
"For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
Jhn 6:39
"This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.
This is strong doctrinal teaching that is difficult for some.
In my view each person's faith is a very personal relationship with the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. That being said, I find the book of John the most inspirational to me.
Quote from: supsalemgr on August 04, 2015, 01:57:55 PM
In my view each person's faith is a very personal relationship with the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. That being said, I find the book of John the most inspirational to me.
I agree. The Gospel of John is my favorite Gospel because John's purpose is to prove the deity of Jesus Christ. It is a powerful message. John and Romans are my two favorite NT Books.
Our faith is ALL ABOUT our relationship with God. The study of doctrine can be difficult but is important to our spiritual growth.