Politicians write the laws. The law influences/persuades/dictates/controls world markets... they own stock in them and collusion is rampant! - Romans 16:18 They serve their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the minds of the simple. 2Peter 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption. Isaiah 56:11 ...they are leaders that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his District. Amos 5:12 ...they afflict the just, they take a bribe, and they turn aside the poor from their right. Isaiah 1:23 Your leaders are companions of thieves: every one loves gifts, and follows after rewards: they judge not the fatherless, neither does the cause of the widow come unto them... Ephesians 5:12 It is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret. 2Peter 2:18 they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh...Proverbs 22:16 They oppress the poor to increase their riches, and they giveth to the rich... Deuteronomy 16:19 You shall not wrest judgment; you shall not respect persons, neither take a gift: for a gift does blind the eyes of the wise, and pervert the words of the righteous. Jude 1:16 ...their mouth speaketh great swelling words, admiring the rich and powerful because of advantage. Isaiah 56:11 Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough...
Jeremiah 9:5 ...they will not speak the truth: they have taught themselves to speak lies, and exhaust themselves committing iniquity. 9:6 They live in the midst of deceit; through deceit they refuse to know me... 9:8 Their tongue speaks deceit: they speak peaceably to their constituent with their mouth, but in their heart they lay in wait. 9:9 Shall I not visit them for these things? shall not my soul be avenged on such a NATION as this?
Taxed 6:9 - "all ye will be banned who keep spammeth the forum"
Quote from: taxed on June 09, 2013, 02:58:00 PM
Taxed 6:9 - "all ye will be banned who keep spammeth the forum"
Is this the 21st century version of "Street Preacher"?
Quote from: Solar on June 09, 2013, 04:02:16 PM
Is this the 21st century version of "Street Preacher"?
I'm afraid so. Well, a street preacher at least has some talent. These people can be replaced by spam-bots.
Quote from: taxed on June 09, 2013, 08:33:07 PM
I'm afraid so. Well, a street preacher at least has some talent. These people can be replaced by spam-bots.
Or people that have 107 videos in their collection. :rolleyes: :biggrin:
Quote from: Solar on June 09, 2013, 08:36:33 PM
Or people that have 107 videos in their collection. :rolleyes: :biggrin:
hahahaha
Laws are written to reflect the culture. How many laws are on the books that are not and cannot be enforced? The media would imply that it is an anomalous person that has not smoked pot--yet pot is illegal. Why? Because laws are as much determined by the masses (informed by the media) as they are by politicians.
Quote from: MFA on June 10, 2013, 10:07:24 AM
Laws are written to reflect the culture. How many laws are on the books that are not and cannot be enforced? The media would imply that it is an anomalous person that has not smoked pot--yet pot is illegal. Why? Because laws are as much determined by the masses (informed by the media) as they are by politicians.
True enough, but culture itself is an outgrowth of societal implementations of what I like to call "survival reality." Many religions are also such implementations; Christianity is certainly one. The Ten Commandments constitute some pretty smart rules to live by, regardless of where you live or whom you worship.
Quote from: TboneAgain on June 10, 2013, 05:37:41 PM
True enough, but culture itself is an outgrowth of societal implementations of what I like to call "survival reality." Many religions are also such implementations; Christianity is certainly one. The Ten Commandments constitute some pretty smart rules to live by, regardless of where you live or whom you worship.
Except for the first 40% of those commandments...they don't really work for everybody.
Quote from: MFA on June 11, 2013, 12:19:22 PM
Except for the first 40% of those commandments...they don't really work for everybody.
That was sarcasm I hope. ALL 10 are meant for you and me and everybody else who claims to be a Follower of Him (you know, the One who gave those COMMANDMENTS).
Quote from: Yawn on June 11, 2013, 12:36:28 PM
That was sarcasm I hope. ALL 10 are meant for you and me and everybody else who claims to be a Follower of Him (you know, the One who gave those COMMANDMENTS).
But not everyone does claim to be a follower of Him, that's what MFA is getting at. Thou shalt have no other Gods before Me probably is not a commandment an atheist or follower of another religion would agree is a good commandmen.
Quote from: JustKari on June 11, 2013, 12:45:29 PM
But not everyone does claim to be a follower of Him, that's what MFA is getting at. Thou shalt have no other Gods before Me probably is not a commandment an atheist or follower of another religion would agree is a good commandmen.
That first one is one I've always wondered about. Why would God need to warn us against "putting other gods before Me", if there were no other gods?
Judiasm, Christianity and Islam claim to be monotheistic religions, but here we have God himself implying that there are, indeed, other "gods"!
-Darth
Quote from: Darth Fife on June 11, 2013, 05:04:36 PM
That first one is one I've always wondered about. Why would God need to warn us against "putting other gods before Me", if there were no other gods?
Judiasm, Christianity and Islam claim to be monotheistic religions, but here we have God himself implying that there are, indeed, other "gods"!
-Darth
Are you implying that God would be unaware that man would create gods of wood, stone, gold, flesh, paper, technology, and any number of other things? No man serves no god, you choose whom you serve, be it your government, your money, your television, your computer, or even your family, everyone fills that void with something and makes "something" their god.
Quote from: Yawn on June 11, 2013, 12:36:28 PM
That was sarcasm I hope. ALL 10 are meant for you and me and everybody else who claims to be a Follower of Him (you know, the One who gave those COMMANDMENTS).
Do they "work" for the atheist? For the Buddhist? For the Muslim? They could...but they don't. Obviously.
Quote from: Darth Fife on June 11, 2013, 05:04:36 PM
That first one is one I've always wondered about. Why would God need to warn us against "putting other gods before Me", if there were no other gods?
Judiasm, Christianity and Islam claim to be monotheistic religions, but here we have God himself implying that there are, indeed, other "gods"!
-Darth
There are all kinds of other gods. People argue whether or not Judaism began as a monotheistic religion or evolved into one. Either way, people still worship all kinds of "gods" or "idols" today, although we don't recognize it because these "gods" are not represented by physical statutes. People worship security, money, entertainment, pleasure...etc., etc., etc.
Quote from: JustKari on June 11, 2013, 05:39:13 PM
Are you implying that God would be unaware that man would create gods of wood, stone, gold, flesh, paper, technology, and any number of other things? No man serves no god, you choose whom you serve, be it your government, your money, your television, your computer, or even your family, everyone fills that void with something and makes "something" their god.
Yeah ^, that. Sorry, I just said the same thing because I didn't read that you had posted this.
Quote from: MFA on June 13, 2013, 08:16:07 AM
Yeah ^, that. Sorry, I just said the same thing because I didn't read that you had posted this.
LOL Great minds and all that. :biggrin:
Quote from: JustKari on June 11, 2013, 05:39:13 PM
Are you implying that God would be unaware that man would create gods of wood, stone, gold, flesh, paper, technology, and any number of other things? No man serves no god, you choose whom you serve, be it your government, your money, your television, your computer, or even your family, everyone fills that void with something and makes "something" their god.
This is a popular spin used to explain away the conundrum I've highlighted.
It doesn't hold up under close examination.
A true God would readily understand that idols are just that - idols and not true gods. It would have been very easy for him to point this out in the First Commandment but, instead, he implies that there are other gods that are his equal but that they should not be placed before him.
This is actually one of the things that started me to doubt the "Word of God" interpretation of the Bible (along with the two different versions of Creation in Genesis). It is clear to me that when the wrote the Ten Commandments, the Hebrew leaders were well aware that their "God" was just one of many worshiped by man in the ancient world. They wanted to make sure that anyone who bought into their religion would acknowledge their god as being the supreme God.
-Darth
Quote from: Darth Fife on June 13, 2013, 01:53:32 PM
This is a popular spin used to explain away the conundrum I've highlighted.
It doesn't hold up under close examination.
A true God would readily understand that idols are just that - idols and not true gods. It would have been very easy for him to point this out in the First Commandment but, instead, he implies that there are other gods that are his equal but that they should not be placed before him.
It certainly does not imply that they are equal. You're reading that into the text. The only issue is whether or not it allows other gods, as long as those other gods don't interfere with YHWH being first (which is certainly a possible meaning).
QuoteThis is actually one of the things that started me to doubt the "Word of God" interpretation of the Bible (along with the two different versions of Creation in Genesis). It is clear to me that when the wrote the Ten Commandments, the Hebrew leaders were well aware that their "God" was just one of many worshiped by man in the ancient world. They wanted to make sure that anyone who bought into their religion would acknowledge their god as being the supreme God.
-Darth
And what is this "Word of God" interpretation? Is it possible that your belief fell because it was built on an illegitimate foundation (e.g., a "Word of God" interpretation)--one that the Bible does not even communicate? And that the rest of your belief toppled like a series of dominoes because that first domino was incorrect to begin with?
Quote from: MFA on June 13, 2013, 06:21:49 PM
It certainly does not imply that they are equal. You're reading that into the text. The only issue is whether or not it allows other gods, as long as those other gods don't interfere with YHWH being first (which is certainly a possible meaning).
And what is this "Word of God" interpretation? Is it possible that your belief fell because it was built on an illegitimate foundation (e.g., a "Word of God" interpretation)--one that the Bible does not even communicate? And that the rest of your belief toppled like a series of dominoes because that first domino was incorrect to begin with?
Most Christians I know believe, at the very least, that the Bible is the "inspired" word of God.
My belief "toppled" because, I started to ask questions. Rational questions. Reasonable questions. And the only answers I got made a carnival sideshow huckster's pitch sound reasonable by comparison.
If you are saying the Bible isn't, the Word of God, then it has no more validity (or basis in fact) than, say, Homer's story about Atlantis or the Greek stories of Zeus, and Perseus and Andromeda.
-Darth
Quote from: Darth Fife on June 13, 2013, 08:41:01 PM
My belief "toppled" because, I started to ask questions. Rational questions. Reasonable questions. And the only answers I got made a carnival sideshow huckster's pitch sound reasonable by comparison.
Let me guess, you asked other idiots that were as clueless as you?
I asked God and got the straight answer, which language fails to interpret.
Quote from: Darth Fife on June 13, 2013, 08:41:01 PM
Most Christians I know believe, at the very least, that the Bible is the "inspired" word of God.
Yes. But Christians define the process and even the meaning of "inspired" very differently.
QuoteMy belief "toppled" because, I started to ask questions. Rational questions. Reasonable questions. And the only answers I got made a carnival sideshow huckster's pitch sound reasonable by comparison.
I would suggest that you asked the wrong people then.
QuoteIf you are saying the Bible isn't, the Word of God, then it has no more validity (or basis in fact) than, say, Homer's story about Atlantis or the Greek stories of Zeus, and Perseus and Andromeda.
-Darth
WHAT!? Before I'll even address that, what do you mean by "Word of God"? I'm not going to defend an ambiguously defined statement. The
Bible itself does not claim to be the "Word of God." So what do you mean by that?
Okay... I think we need a new thread as this one is wandering off into the weeds.
Agreed?
-Darth
Quote from: Darth Fife on June 14, 2013, 10:24:12 AM
Okay... I think we need a new thread as this one is wandering off into the weeds.
Agreed?
-Darth
Good idea. Thanks for that. I appreciate the discussion. So many people don't know how to do that...