Hey guys... I'm obviously a new member here, and to be honest, I used to be a strong Repubcan, however, I've recently been losing my faith. The GOP has disappointed me a lot lately. In fact, I'm leaning more towards becoming a Libertarian at this point.
Now, I'm not trying to troll or attack anyone here... but from a lot of the posts I've read, it seems like this is more of a new-fashioned, neoconservative environment as opposed to an old school, hardcore small-government and civil liberties oriented kind of place.
I mean, I used to be pretty religious, and in fact I still consider myself a Christian, but not in the sense that I think my religion should be used to oppress people. Actually, I've been thinking about this a lot lately... but what do neocons in America and Muslims in the Middle East have in common? They both use their religion to justify governmental legislation of morality. Hey, Muslims and Christians might hate each other, but they at least want their governments to keep gay marriage illegal, right?
I know, there's a big difference between the Muslims wanting to murder the gays, and Christians simply wanting to keep it illegal. But still, however you want to dress it up or spin it, this is a religion being used to justify bigger governmental control over private citizens' lives, and I don't like that.
And this is why I've lost faith in the GOP. Because I actually, truly, honestly want less governmental control over my fellow Americans' lives. I mean that with all of my heart. And also, I do not give a damn what gay people do in private, and it doesn't bother me in the least if they get married. Why should it? And why should the government decide it's illegal, just because of an ancient religious text that says it's wrong?
I mean, how does that not horrify you guys? An ancient religious text says that homosexuality is wrong, and therefore, the government should keep it illegal. This is the same justification Islam uses. Look, I'm pretty much as right leaning and conservative when comes to anything economic and even most social issues too. I'm against abortion, and I also believe strongly in the right to bear arms.
But the same reason I believe strongly in those issues, is also the same reason why I think gay marriage should be legal. Let me repeat that.... I believe strongly in the right to bear arms, for the same reason I believe that gay marriage should be legal. I couldn't imagine believing strongly in one of those, without the other.
Let's face it: if you think the government should see gays as lesser citizens because they were born differently, then you don't actually believe in smaller government. Can't neocons just admit they're actually against small government, and that they oppose civil liberties?
If I were still a neocon as opposed to a true conservative, I'd be for more governmental control over those damn homos' lives too. Look... you eventually have to admit that to yourself -- and it makes you question everything else. It might even feel to good to say this out loud: I love Jesus and he tells me to love everyone else... but he never once mentioned homosexuals once in the Bible. Look it up. Name one time Jesus mentioned Homosexuality.
This is a man who forgave the people who executed him, and also said, he who is perfect, let him throw the first stone. He was full of love, and preached of the fruits of the spirit. I don't think is a man who would have spent his hours lobbying the occupying Roman government for more control over homosexual's lives....
But yeah, the old testament and Paul both preach that homosexuality is immoral, and therefore it should be illegal. But in that case, shouldn't divorce be illegal too... or cigarettes and alcohol, or taking the Lord's name in vain, or having hateful thoughts towards your neighbor, or overeating, or firearms (guns kill many people in America) or whatever else? I mean, why is McDonalds legal, a place that sells horrible processed foods and contributes towards obesity and heart disease -- the number 1 killer in America -- yet gay marriage is somehow something the government should forbid? McDonalds has killed far more many people than gays ever have... In fact McDonalds kills more than homosexuality and gun violence combined. Do I think it should be illegal though? No.
I mean, pardon my French, but what in the damn hell is the justification for that? Hey, maybe the government should keep everything else I listed above illegal too. Guns, bad food, sinful thoughts, divorce, etc. If societal harm were the only justification for the government keeping something illegal, then McDonalds wouldn't be allowed to sell here! If you honestly and truly believe gay marriage should stay illegal, then your same argument can be applied to McDonalds, and guns, and so many other harmful things that really should still be legal, because we live in a country that's free. I believe in the free market, I believe in civil liberties, and I'm so damn sick of the government telling us what we can and can't do. If the government tells me I can't own my guns (I have quite a few), it's just as upsetting when they tell my friends they can't marry and get better insurance benefits and societal recognition as real and equal citizens. I'm not gay but I have quite a few family members and friends who are, and I'm sick of the GOP campaigning for them to have less rights than I do. That, quite frankly, disgusts me.
And the scary thought is, that what if, by some bizarre chance, some other religion besides Christianity became dominant in America? There would be a movement against dancing and drinking caffeine, if the Amish or Mormons had their way. Oh, and if by any chance the Muslims had control of this country, homosexuality would be even more of a punishable offense than Christians could even imagine. A few of my close friends and family members would be thrown off buildings, and those Muslims would use the government at the time to justify it. Thankfully you neocons would just prefer they don't get recognized as equal citizens and receive insurance benefits, among a few other things. Not quite as bad, but still, you gotta recognize the parallel between Islam and Neocon at this point.
I mean, yeah, Christianity is the dominant religion in America now. But if Christianity ever falls out of popularity, and some other religion like the hateful and awful Islam becomes favored, then the same arguments neocons are using today to justify keeping gay marriage illegal could also be used to persecute Christians, or anyone else that disagrees with their ideas. And they will use the government to do it, in the same way neocons want the government to keep homosexuality illegal. That is a horrifying thought to me, as a libertarian, and it's why I've lost faith in the GOP and many Republicans today. Am I an idiot for feeling this way?
Honestly, what happened to civil liberties? Am I just taking crazy pills, or do most Democrats, so-called "Republicans", and really most Americans simply not believe in small government or civil liberties anymore (unless it means more civil liberties for them and less for everyone else)? In that case, why not just admit and be proud of it? Ugh, I'm so disgusted. The legislation of morality through bigger government is something the modern day neocon GOP believes in strongly nowadays, and that is my same complain against the left, at this point. Marxism used the government to strip rights away from people they saw as lessers and enemies too. Islam uses the Quuran or whatever it's called to keep women from driving. I'm just so disgusted by it all.
Quote from: Iraave on August 26, 2015, 01:38:09 AM
I mean, I used to be pretty religious, and in fact I still consider myself a Christian, but not in the sense that I think my religion should be used to oppress people. Actually, I've been thinking about this a lot lately... but what do neocons in America and Muslims in the Middle East have in common? They both use their religion to justify governmental legislation of morality. Hey, Muslims and Christians might hate each other, but they at least want their governments to keep gay marriage illegal, right?
This isn't a Republican forum. It is a CONSERVATIVE/TEA PARTY forum.
Homosexuals are free to go thru a ceremony and CALL it "marriage."
What you want is for the governmemt to change the DEFINITION of marriage so you can llegitimize your ceremony.
Marriage has a definition. I accept the traditional definition. You aren't gonna convince the vast majority to accept your definition. You seem to be effective in getting the elites in big government to side with you in your quest to IMPOSE your redefinition of marriage on the rest of us.
That doesn't seem to be enough for you. Now you want to evangelize your idiotology/perversion among private citizens in a CONSERVATIVE forum to accept your REDEFINITION of the institution of marriage.
There seems to be no limits to the INTOLERANCE of the Left.
Quotemar·riage
ˈmerij/
noun
1.
the legally or formally recognized union of a man and a woman as partners in a relationship
.
Quote from: Iraave on August 26, 2015, 01:38:09 AM
Hey guys... I'm obviously a new member here, and to be honest, I used to be a strong Repubcan, however, I've recently been losing my faith. The GOP has disappointed me a lot lately. In fact, I'm leaning more towards becoming a Libertarian at this point.
What is a libertarian to you?
Quote
Now, I'm not trying to troll or attack anyone here... but
I feel like I've seen this movie before...
Quote
from a lot of the posts I've read, it seems like this is more of a new-fashioned, neoconservative environment as opposed to an old school, hardcore small-government and civil liberties oriented kind of place.
Please link to a few big government posts you've seen from this forum. It should be easy, since you have seen "a lot" of them.
Quote
I mean, I used to be pretty religious,
Nobody cares.
Quote
and in fact I still consider myself a Christian, but not in the sense that I think my religion should be used to oppress people.
Nobody here does, and neither do most normal people. This is your academic brain-washing starting to take effect here.
Quote
Actually, I've been thinking about this a lot lately... but what do neocons in America and Muslims in the Middle East have in common? They both use their religion to justify governmental legislation of morality. Hey, Muslims and Christians might hate each other, but they at least want their governments to keep gay marriage illegal, right?
Your first mistake, after listening to academic professors who have no life experience or skill they can apply to society, is to attempt to link the Christian religion to a cult. That's silly, and it shows you really haven't thought through this. Jesus wouldn't be beheading gays, and pretty much nobody here hates gays. Your thinking skills have been deadened, so it will be difficult for you to conceptualize that we don't hate gays or think they're special simply because they are gay. They can do whatever they want with other consenting adults in their private lives. Nobody here cares, and many of us on this forum, because of where we are in the country and our day to day interactions, and just being in business in general, have no problem with gays and could care less. You've been trained to think we hate gays, and it's just silly and moronic.
Quote
I know, there's a big difference between the Muslims wanting to murder the gays, and Christians simply wanting to keep it illegal.
Who wants to keep what illegal? Please explain. You're talking from a ridiculous perspective that makes no sense.
Quote
But still, however you want to dress it up or spin it, this is a religion being used to justify bigger governmental control over private citizens' lives, and I don't like that.
I still have no idea what in the hell you are talking about.
Quote
And this is why I've lost faith in the GOP. Because I actually, truly, honestly want less governmental control over my fellow Americans' lives. I mean that with all of my heart. And also, I do not give a damn what gay people do in private, and it doesn't bother me in the least if they get married. Why should it? And why should the government decide it's illegal, just because of an ancient religious text that says it's wrong?
I don't know what homework assignment your professor gave you, but just know, you look really silly right now.
Quote
I mean, how does that not horrify you guys? An ancient religious text says that homosexuality is wrong, and therefore, the government should keep it illegal.
What respected conservative wants to make being gay illegal? Please link to the source. Otherwise, admit you are just trying to get some finger excersize with this post.
Quote
This is the same justification Islam uses. Look, I'm pretty much as right leaning and conservative when comes to anything economic and even most social issues too. I'm against abortion, and I also believe strongly in the right to bear arms.
I have a feeling you're about as conservative as I am Chinese.
Quote
But the same reason I believe strongly in those issues, is also the same reason why I think gay marriage should be legal. Let me repeat that.... I believe strongly in the right to bear arms, for the same reason I believe that gay marriage should be legal. I couldn't imagine believing strongly in one of those, without the other.
Like most non-thinkers, you have been trained to parrot that our support of traditional marriage is the same as hating gays. That's a perspective that has no basis, and is only consumed by those with no logic-processing faculties in their brain.
Quote
Let's face it: if you think the government should see gays as lesser citizens because they were born differently, then you don't actually believe in smaller government. Can't neocons just admit they're actually against small government, and that they oppose civil liberties?
Understand what you're doing: you're coming to a forum that wants to eliminate the EPA, Dept of Ed, IRS, Dept of Energy, foreign aid, ramp down welfare and other subsidies, and telling us we're "neocons" and need to admit that we're actually not really for smaller government BECAUSE your professor has engrained it in your little brain that supporting traditional marriage is gay hating. You don't see how silly that is?
Quote
If I were still a neocon as opposed to a true conservative, I'd be for more governmental control over those damn homos' lives too. Look... you eventually have to admit that to yourself -- and it makes you question everything else. It might even feel to good to say this out loud: I love Jesus and he tells me to love everyone else... but he never once mentioned homosexuals once in the Bible. Look it up. Name one time Jesus mentioned Homosexuality.
What you're really doing is bringing your daddy issues to the forum. You need to grow up and figure out what you want to do with your life.
Quote
This is a man who forgave the people who executed him, and also said, he who is perfect, let him throw the first stone. He was full of love, and preached of the fruits of the spirit. I don't think is a man who would have spent his hours lobbying the occupying Roman government for more control over homosexual's lives....
But yeah, the old testament and Paul both preach that homosexuality is immoral, and therefore it should be illegal. But in that case, shouldn't divorce be illegal too... or cigarettes and alcohol, or taking the Lord's name in vain, or having hateful thoughts towards your neighbor, or overeating, or firearms (guns kill many people in America) or whatever else? I mean, why is McDonalds legal, a place that sells horrible processed foods and contributes towards obesity and heart disease -- the number 1 killer in America -- yet gay marriage is somehow something the government should forbid? McDonalds has killed far more many people than gays ever have... In fact McDonalds kills more than homosexuality and gun violence combined. Do I think it should be illegal though? No.
I mean, pardon my French, but what in the damn hell is the justification for that? Hey, maybe the government should keep everything else I listed above illegal too. Guns, bad food, sinful thoughts, divorce, etc. If societal harm were the only justification for the government keeping something illegal, then McDonalds wouldn't be allowed to sell here! If you honestly and truly believe gay marriage should stay illegal, then your same argument can be applied to McDonalds, and guns, and so many other harmful things that really should still be legal, because we live in a country that's free. I believe in the free market, I believe in civil liberties, and I'm so damn sick of the government telling us what we can and can't do. If the government tells me I can't own my guns (I have quite a few), it's just as upsetting when they tell my friends they can't marry and get better insurance benefits and societal recognition as real and equal citizens. I'm not gay but I have quite a few family members and friends who are, and I'm sick of the GOP campaigning for them to have less rights than I do. That, quite frankly, disgusts me.
If you can, before you post next time, please take your medication and give it 30 minutes. We'd all appreciate that.
Quote
And the scary thought is, that what if, by some bizarre chance, some other religion besides Christianity became dominant in America? There would be a movement against dancing and drinking caffeine, if the Amish or Mormons had their way. Oh, and if by any chance the Muslims had control of this country, homosexuality would be even more of a punishable offense than Christians could even imagine. A few of my close friends and family members would be thrown off buildings, and those Muslims would use the government at the time to justify it. Thankfully you neocons would just prefer they don't get recognized as equal citizens and receive insurance benefits, among a few other things. Not quite as bad, but still, you gotta recognize the parallel between Islam and Neocon at this point.
Academia is still pushing the "neocon" agenda. Too funny.
Quote
I mean, yeah, Christianity is the dominant religion in America now. But if Christianity ever falls out of popularity, and some other religion like the hateful and awful Islam becomes favored, then the same arguments neocons are using today to justify keeping gay marriage illegal could also be used to persecute Christians, or anyone else that disagrees with their ideas. And they will use the government to do it, in the same way neocons want the government to keep homosexuality illegal. That is a horrifying thought to me, as a libertarian, and it's why I've lost faith in the GOP and many Republicans today. Am I an idiot for feeling this way?
Honestly, what happened to civil liberties? Am I just taking crazy pills, or do most Democrats, so-called "Republicans", and really most Americans simply not believe in small government or civil liberties anymore (unless it means more civil liberties for them and less for everyone else)? In that case, why not just admit and be proud of it? Ugh, I'm so disgusted. The legislation of morality through bigger government is something the modern day neocon GOP believes in strongly nowadays, and that is my same complain against the left, at this point. Marxism used the government to strip rights away from people they saw as lessers and enemies too. Islam uses the Quuran or whatever it's called to keep women from driving. I'm just so disgusted by it all.
You do realize that gay marriage gets shot down at the ballot box all the time, and your big government activist judges keep it alive, right? Or, do you know that, yet wrote this entire post?
I didn't read all the way thru his long winded rant. I missed this:
Quotebut he never once mentioned homosexuals once in the Bible. Look it up. Name one time Jesus mentioned Homosexuality
Well, he did according to the issue you're promoting. He said marriageis between ONE MAN AMD ONE WOMAN.
Quoteand said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one
He also didnt say anything about marrying your dog. Does that mean he approves of marrying your dog?
Quote from: Iraave on August 26, 2015, 01:38:09 AM
Hey guys... I'm obviously a new member here, and to be honest, I used to be a strong Repubcan, however, I've recently been losing my faith. The GOP has disappointed me a lot lately. In fact, I'm leaning more towards becoming a Libertarian at this point.
Now, I'm not trying to troll or attack anyone here... but from a lot of the posts I've read, it seems like this is more of a new-fashioned, neoconservative environment as opposed to an old school, hardcore small-government and civil liberties oriented kind of place.
I mean, I used to be pretty religious, and in fact I still consider myself a Christian, but not in the sense that I think my religion should be used to oppress people. Actually, I've been thinking about this a lot lately... but what do neocons in America and Muslims in the Middle East have in common? They both use their religion to justify governmental legislation of morality. Hey, Muslims and Christians might hate each other, but they at least want their governments to keep gay marriage illegal, right?
I know, there's a big difference between the Muslims wanting to murder the gays, and Christians simply wanting to keep it illegal. But still, however you want to dress it up or spin it, this is a religion being used to justify bigger governmental control over private citizens' lives, and I don't like that.
And this is why I've lost faith in the GOP. Because I actually, truly, honestly want less governmental control over my fellow Americans' lives. I mean that with all of my heart. And also, I do not give a damn what gay people do in private, and it doesn't bother me in the least if they get married. Why should it? And why should the government decide it's illegal, just because of an ancient religious text that says it's wrong?
I mean, how does that not horrify you guys? An ancient religious text says that homosexuality is wrong, and therefore, the government should keep it illegal. This is the same justification Islam uses. Look, I'm pretty much as right leaning and conservative when comes to anything economic and even most social issues too. I'm against abortion, and I also believe strongly in the right to bear arms.
But the same reason I believe strongly in those issues, is also the same reason why I think gay marriage should be legal. Let me repeat that.... I believe strongly in the right to bear arms, for the same reason I believe that gay marriage should be legal. I couldn't imagine believing strongly in one of those, without the other.
Let's face it: if you think the government should see gays as lesser citizens because they were born differently, then you don't actually believe in smaller government. Can't neocons just admit they're actually against small government, and that they oppose civil liberties?
If I were still a neocon as opposed to a true conservative, I'd be for more governmental control over those damn homos' lives too. Look... you eventually have to admit that to yourself -- and it makes you question everything else. It might even feel to good to say this out loud: I love Jesus and he tells me to love everyone else... but he never once mentioned homosexuals once in the Bible. Look it up. Name one time Jesus mentioned Homosexuality.
This is a man who forgave the people who executed him, and also said, he who is perfect, let him throw the first stone. He was full of love, and preached of the fruits of the spirit. I don't think is a man who would have spent his hours lobbying the occupying Roman government for more control over homosexual's lives....
But yeah, the old testament and Paul both preach that homosexuality is immoral, and therefore it should be illegal. But in that case, shouldn't divorce be illegal too... or cigarettes and alcohol, or taking the Lord's name in vain, or having hateful thoughts towards your neighbor, or overeating, or firearms (guns kill many people in America) or whatever else? I mean, why is McDonalds legal, a place that sells horrible processed foods and contributes towards obesity and heart disease -- the number 1 killer in America -- yet gay marriage is somehow something the government should forbid? McDonalds has killed far more many people than gays ever have... In fact McDonalds kills more than homosexuality and gun violence combined. Do I think it should be illegal though? No.
I mean, pardon my French, but what in the damn hell is the justification for that? Hey, maybe the government should keep everything else I listed above illegal too. Guns, bad food, sinful thoughts, divorce, etc. If societal harm were the only justification for the government keeping something illegal, then McDonalds wouldn't be allowed to sell here! If you honestly and truly believe gay marriage should stay illegal, then your same argument can be applied to McDonalds, and guns, and so many other harmful things that really should still be legal, because we live in a country that's free. I believe in the free market, I believe in civil liberties, and I'm so damn sick of the government telling us what we can and can't do. If the government tells me I can't own my guns (I have quite a few), it's just as upsetting when they tell my friends they can't marry and get better insurance benefits and societal recognition as real and equal citizens. I'm not gay but I have quite a few family members and friends who are, and I'm sick of the GOP campaigning for them to have less rights than I do. That, quite frankly, disgusts me.
And the scary thought is, that what if, by some bizarre chance, some other religion besides Christianity became dominant in America? There would be a movement against dancing and drinking caffeine, if the Amish or Mormons had their way. Oh, and if by any chance the Muslims had control of this country, homosexuality would be even more of a punishable offense than Christians could even imagine. A few of my close friends and family members would be thrown off buildings, and those Muslims would use the government at the time to justify it. Thankfully you neocons would just prefer they don't get recognized as equal citizens and receive insurance benefits, among a few other things. Not quite as bad, but still, you gotta recognize the parallel between Islam and Neocon at this point.
I mean, yeah, Christianity is the dominant religion in America now. But if Christianity ever falls out of popularity, and some other religion like the hateful and awful Islam becomes favored, then the same arguments neocons are using today to justify keeping gay marriage illegal could also be used to persecute Christians, or anyone else that disagrees with their ideas. And they will use the government to do it, in the same way neocons want the government to keep homosexuality illegal. That is a horrifying thought to me, as a libertarian, and it's why I've lost faith in the GOP and many Republicans today. Am I an idiot for feeling this way?
Honestly, what happened to civil liberties? Am I just taking crazy pills, or do most Democrats, so-called "Republicans", and really most Americans simply not believe in small government or civil liberties anymore (unless it means more civil liberties for them and less for everyone else)? In that case, why not just admit and be proud of it? Ugh, I'm so disgusted. The legislation of morality through bigger government is something the modern day neocon GOP believes in strongly nowadays, and that is my same complain against the left, at this point. Marxism used the government to strip rights away from people they saw as lessers and enemies too. Islam uses the Quuran or whatever it's called to keep women from driving. I'm just so disgusted by it all.
Jeeeez, did you think you stumbled into a confessional?
OK, I forgive, grant you absolution
To be honest, I fell asleep after the first paragraph of rambling biased/prejudiced, leftist talking points.
Quote from: Solar on August 26, 2015, 05:35:32 AM
Jeeeez, did you think you stumbled into a confessional?
OK, I forgive, grant you absolution
To be honest, I fell asleep after the first paragraph of rambling biased/prejudiced, leftist talking points.
I was going to move this into the joke board at first, but move it to MSM Distraction News.
Quote from: Solar on August 26, 2015, 05:35:32 AM
Jeeeez, did you think you stumbled into a confessional?
OK, I forgive, grant you absolution
To be honest, I fell asleep after the first paragraph of rambling biased/prejudiced, leftist talking points.
He just got out of class and was all excited...
Quote from: taxed on August 26, 2015, 05:49:10 AM
He just got out of class and was all excited...
Clean up in the hallway is needed. :lol:
Quote from: walkstall on August 26, 2015, 05:53:49 AM
Clean up in the hallway is needed. :lol:
He ran straight from class to his keyboard and just couldn't hold it...
Quote from: taxed on August 26, 2015, 05:55:19 AM
He ran straight from class to his keyboard and just couldn't hold it...
(https://conservativepoliticalforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi12.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa238%2FDapper_Dan%2Fbth_42.gif&hash=4edc57c38b96d2140925d0281402379c38f5b7e0)
Quote from: walkstall on August 26, 2015, 05:53:49 AM
Clean up in the hallway is needed. :lol:
Your pick, I didn't even read that shit, so I have no idea how to categorize it. Miscellaneous?
Quote from: Solar on August 26, 2015, 06:27:06 AM
Your pick, I didn't even read that shit, so I have no idea how to categorize it. Miscellaneous?
That will work for me, as we don't have a Sewer board.
Quote from: walkstall on August 26, 2015, 05:58:31 AM
(https://conservativepoliticalforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi12.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa238%2FDapper_Dan%2Fbth_42.gif&hash=4edc57c38b96d2140925d0281402379c38f5b7e0)
:thumbsup: Speaking of Chapter 3...... :lol: :lol: :lol:
Quote from: walkstall on August 26, 2015, 05:58:31 AM
(https://conservativepoliticalforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi12.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa238%2FDapper_Dan%2Fbth_42.gif&hash=4edc57c38b96d2140925d0281402379c38f5b7e0)
That's how Ricky died...
Wow... a lot of name calling. Didn't realize this was such a brutal and hateful place here.... Guess I should have seen this coming.
Anyways, like I said, I'm an old school libertarian. I believe strongly in small government and personal freedom. I do not think this forum feels the same way, however, and that is unfortunate. I see a lot of name calling, hatred, and basically terrible personalities left and right. Sigh.... the problems with neocons: they don't understand the difference between religious freedom and actual freedom.
Oh, and let me say it again: I think gay marriage should be legal. I also think conceal and carry should be legal. I think marijuana should be legal. Honestly, I do not want to live in an America where a Muslim car dealership can deny women the right to buy cars.... but that is what you guys want, right? The Kentucky clerk should have the right to deny gays marriage... so, that means muslims should have the same right to deny women the right to drive.. right?
I MEAN AM I TAKING CRAZY PILLS? Seriously though I agree with all of you on every single issue except marriage. The way I see it, Islam is one of the most oppressive and hateful religions in existence at the moment. Would any member of this forum be proud of a Muslim worker of the U.S. government for disobeying their orders and denying a woman a driver's license? FUCK NO! So, why the double standard? I mean, are you pro-religion, or are you not? Are you pro big-government, or are you not? Pick a side, soon, please.
Sadly though, I get the feeling most of you just want to ban me and kick me out of here. Actually, and this is just my opinion, man, but I think most of you are pro big government and you're all against civil liberties.
Anyways, I'd suggest watching the movie Citizenfour. I'm far more anti-left than you all could possibly imagine, but you just can't open your mind enough to understand why I'd be for more civil liberties of homosexuals. just to get a vague idea of how our civil liberties are being completely stomped on, though, watch Citizenfour.
Quote from: Iraave on September 05, 2015, 04:37:41 AM
Sadly though, I get the feeling most of you just want to ban me and kick me out of here. Actually, and this is just my opinion, man, but I think most of you are pro big government and you're all against civil liberties.
Anyways, I'd suggest watching the movie Citizenfour. I'm far more anti-left than you all could possibly imagine, but you just can't open your mind enough to understand why I'd be for more civil liberties of homosexuals. just to get a vague idea of how our civil liberties are being completely stomped on, though, watch Citizenfour.
I see you fail to understand the true concept of Liberatrian. Let me give you an example of a real life, real time example of the end result of Libertarianism.
The Bay area of Ca, the Barberry Coast in all it's glory, live and let live, where prostitution and speak easy's flaunted govt morality laws.
But what allowed this "Look the other way, it's none of my business what they do".
Well, just look at the cesspool that SF is today. Libertarians had created their Utopia, and sadly, their very belief structure was the very thing that became their undoing.
I watched as Marxists preached to kids at Haight and Ashbury, and later on as they got high and bought the lie of "Free Love" man.
Yeah, Libertarians once again turned a blind eye to the evil at their door, because it was none of their business.
Yet you claim to be an old wide eyed Libertarian, you're nothing more than a foolish kid unable to connect history and the collapse of civilizations.
Society exists because of strict laws regarding morality, laws created by the people within the majority community.
It's when these rules blur, society begins to decay, as planned by Marxists.
Next comes the lowering of what is perceived as immoral, children become targets, animals gain equal status as citizens.
Sure, keep believing in your fantasy world, but just know, it's a short lived dream.
Quote from: Iraave on September 05, 2015, 04:37:41 AM
Sadly though, I get the feeling most of you just want to ban me and kick me out of here. Actually, and this is just my opinion, man, but I think most of you are pro big government and you're all against civil liberties.
Anyways, I'd suggest watching the movie Citizenfour. I'm far more anti-left than you all could possibly imagine, but you just can't open your mind enough to understand why I'd be for more civil liberties of homosexuals. just to get a vague idea of how our civil liberties are being completely stomped on, though, watch Citizenfour.
Your posting on a TEA Conservative Political Forum. Your libertarian BS just doesn't impress us at all.
That's just my way of thinking.
Quote from: walkstall on September 05, 2015, 06:27:00 AM
Your posting on a TEA Conservative Political Forum. Your libertarian BS just doesn't impress us at all.
That's just my way of thinking.
Kids seldom do.
Quote from: Solar on September 05, 2015, 06:31:59 AM
Kids seldom do.
I was being nice this A.M. I need my coffee! :lol:
Eh, this is thread and this entire forum are prime examples of why I, as a lifetime anti-leftist, am horribly disappointed with American Neoconservatives at this point. I hate the left more than any of you could possibly ever imagine, and the idea of gay marriage underscores why.
Honestly, like I said before, I believe in small government. I strongly support civil liberties. I'm against abortion (because I support the rights of the unborn). I support the right to bear arms. And... finally... and I know this angers so many people.... but I believe in the equal right to marriage.
Sigh... I know you're all going to call me names, and write me off, and tell me I'm a horrible person and I'm some sort of secret agent of the left, or whatever, but come on. Us real conservatives and libertarians believe in personal freedom from the government, and true civil liberties, and we're working towards a world where we can live and thrive as individuals... and you people are making us look bad.
You're making ACTUAL, REAL CONSERVATIVES look stupid on the global stage with your religious ridiculousness.
Hey, did it ever occur to you that some of us want equal rights for every human, without any religious exceptions?
Sharia Law believes the law of God should also be the law of man. Oh, that kinda sounds like what fundie neocons want in America too, right? You and Islam both have a major thing on common: You want the government to treat homosexuals as lesser citizens. And if you can't see why Islam and the fake hardcore neocon right horrify me equally, then I dunno what to say...
Sigh. I just wish I could see actual freedom from the government. But the right in fundie America is just the same as in Europe. Disappointing :(
As a New Yorker I doubt any of you could imagine the horror of 9/11. Honestly, all of you, if any of you actually live or have lived in this city, raise a hand.
I also don't think any of you really, truly get how awful it is when a government legislates morality. ISIS executes gays. Saudi Arabia denies women the right the drive. Sharia Law is a horrifying and awful idea to me.
In fact, I'll straight up say it: I'm Islamaphobic. I think it's a hateful, horrible, awful religion. And their hatred of homosexuality is deplorable. Well, unfortunately, Islam and Christianity have one big thing in common at this point: they both hate gays.
Sigh... As someone who actually grew up reading and studying the Bible, and learning about a Jesus who forgave, and loved unconditionally, and even blessed the soldiers that crucified him (forgive them Lord they know not what they do), I'm honestly disappointed in this forum. In fact, I'm quite disgusted.
Quote from: Iraave on September 10, 2015, 12:26:13 AM
As a New Yorker I doubt any of you could imagine the horror of 9/11. Honestly, all of you, if any of you actually live or have lived in this city, raise a hand.
I also don't think any of you really, truly get how awful it is when a government legislates morality. ISIS executes gays. Saudi Arabia denies women the right the drive. Sharia Law is a horrifying and awful idea to me.
In fact, I'll straight up say it: I'm Islamaphobic. I think it's a hateful, horrible, awful religion. And their hatred of homosexuality is deplorable. Well, unfortunately, Islam and Christianity have one big thing in common at this point: they both hate gays.
Sigh... As someone who actually grew up reading and studying the Bible, and learning about a Jesus who forgave, and loved unconditionally, and even blessed the soldiers that crucified him (forgive them Lord they know not what they do), I'm honestly disappointed in this forum. In fact, I'm quite disgusted.
Quite a rush to judgement. Feel free to leave.
Quote from: Iraave on September 09, 2015, 11:54:25 PM
Eh, this is thread and this entire forum are prime examples of why I, as a lifetime anti-leftist, am horribly disappointed with American Neoconservatives at this point. I hate the left more than any of you could possibly ever imagine, and the idea of gay marriage underscores why.
Honestly, like I said before, I believe in small government. I strongly support civil liberties. I'm against abortion (because I support the rights of the unborn). I support the right to bear arms. And... finally... and I know this angers so many people.... but I believe in the equal right to marriage.
Sigh... I know you're all going to call me names, and write me off, and tell me I'm a horrible person and I'm some sort of secret agent of the left, or whatever, but come on. Us real conservatives and libertarians believe in personal freedom from the government, and true civil liberties, and we're working towards a world where we can live and thrive as individuals... and you people are making us look bad.
You're making ACTUAL, REAL CONSERVATIVES look stupid on the global stage with your religious ridiculousness.
Hey, did it ever occur to you that some of us want equal rights for every human, without any religious exceptions?
Sharia Law believes the law of God should also be the law of man. Oh, that kinda sounds like what fundie neocons want in America too, right? You and Islam both have a major thing on common: You want the government to treat homosexuals as lesser citizens. And if you can't see why Islam and the fake hardcore neocon right horrify me equally, then I dunno what to say...
Sigh. I just wish I could see actual freedom from the government. But the right in fundie America is just the same as in Europe. Disappointing :(
Typical leftists! Comes in, reads one thread, and judges an entire forum on the comments of a few.
That's right, you are no Conservative, you're a reformed lib that supported the Marxist, put a Marxist in office, discovered you'd been lied to and jumped to the party you believe that supports your right to getting high with impunity.
Stupid God Damned Kid! It's ignorance like your's that's killing this Nation! This issue, the Fag one, has absolutely nothing to do with Liberty, and everything to do with breaking down American culture and dividing the country.
God you fuckin idiots really piss me off! You, yes you, are the perfect example of useful idiot!
How can you be disgusted when people support the ONLY known way to propagate our species, unlike detestable self-loathing trash whose perversion spreads venereal disease and other deadly consequences?
Gee, even heterosexual wedlock doesn't kill people THAT fast!
Quote from: Iraave on September 09, 2015, 11:54:25 PM
but I believe in the equal right to marriage.
Simple to fix, get government out of marriage. It was a religious concept anyway. People don't need a government sanctioned piece of paper to live together or pro-create, being half the kids in this country are born to single parents. The whole institution of what marriage was supposed to be has been ruined.
Quote from: Dori on September 10, 2015, 07:56:42 AM
Simple to fix, get government out of marriage. It was a religious concept anyway. People don't need a government sanctioned piece of paper to live together or pro-create, being half the kids in this country are born to single parents. The whole institution of what marriage was supposed to be has been ruined.
Yep, it was all about control and tax revenue.
I say turn it back over to the church, let them keep record and call it done.
Quote from: Solar on September 10, 2015, 08:19:20 AM
Yep, it was all about control and tax revenue.
I say turn it back over to the church, let them keep record and call it done.
YES!! If you are wedded in the church you have a marriage. If you are wedded at the Court House or JP you have a civil union. The Government can define civil unions any way they want.
Truth is, it is only the gays that are getting wedded these dates. The pagan heterosexuals are just cohabiting!
Quote from: kroz on September 10, 2015, 01:17:34 PM
YES!! If you are wedded in the church you have a marriage. If you are wedded at the Court House or JP you have a civil union. The Government can define civil unions any way they want.
Truth is, it is only the gays that are getting wedded these dates. The pagan heterosexuals are just cohabiting!
Exactly!! Under the eyes of God.
Quote from: kroz on September 10, 2015, 01:17:34 PM
YES!! If you are wedded in the church you have a marriage. If you are wedded at the Court House or JP you have a civil union. The Government can define civil unions any way they want.
Truth is, it is only the gays that are getting wedded these dates. The pagan heterosexuals are just cohabiting!
If one is married by a minister it is a marriage. I have no problem with folks being married in different locations if it is a religious marriage. This is becoming more of a norm.
Quote from: supsalemgr on September 10, 2015, 02:14:27 PM
If one is married by a minister it is a marriage. I have no problem with folks being married in different locations if it is a religious marriage. This is becoming more of a norm.
You are right, sup. I'm glad you clarified that!
Quote from: Dori on September 10, 2015, 07:56:42 AM
Simple to fix, get government out of marriage. It was a religious concept anyway. People don't need a government sanctioned piece of paper to live together or pro-create, being half the kids in this country are born to single parents. The whole institution of what marriage was supposed to be has been ruined.
Well, at least one person on this so-called "conservative" forum gets it. Just read Dori's post a few times and maybe you'll really get it.
As for most of the rest of you (I said MOST not saying all of you), I just see a lot of hatefulness, bitterness, and name calling.
I'm against government control of marriage, and that makes me a Marxist? I'm a Christian that grew up reading the Bible, learning about a Jesus who preached love and forgiveness, and I actually try to live by those principles.... and yet I'm told that:
Quote from: SolarStupid God Damned Kid! It's ignorance like your's that's killing this Nation! This issue, the Fag one, has absolutely nothing to do with Liberty, and everything to do with breaking down American culture and dividing the country.
God you fuckin idiots really piss me off! You, yes you, are the perfect example of useful idiot!
Do you really think Jesus would approve of the hatred and bitterness in your heart? Just asking. Not making any judgments. If taking the Lord's name in vain were a big enough sin to be made illegal, you'd be in jail, yeah?
Anyways, I realize most of you here don't actually believe in freedom of religion. Like I said, you'd probably freak if a Muslim DMV worker tried to deny a drivers license to women. Hey, I'd freak too. I'm not a leftist and if anyone tries to defend Obama, I'll rail against him equally as viciously.
Just admit, it, though: you don't want freedom of religion, you just want your own popular and current interpretation of Christianity to be enforced by the government. You don't want smaller government as a principle, you want to make the government smaller only if it serves your own personal interests. You wouldn't complain if the federal government legalized conceal and carry (and I also believe strongly in the right to bear arms! in fact that's extremely important to me), but you get mad if it legalizes people born different from you the right to get tax and insurance benefits. So, stop saying you care about civil liberties, too! Because you don't.
The fact is, Solar, you believe in big government, and you are strongly against religious liberties -- unless either serves your specific religious views. Just admit that. It's all I'm asking.
And that's why I don't consider you a true conservative, in case I haven't made that clear enough.
Just read the OP, and the rest of the thread. So what's the deal? The thread title is about an argument against gay marriage but the OP seems to argue against government banning gay marriages. What's up with that? Did I misread the OP?
Quote from: Ultra on September 12, 2015, 02:57:23 PM
Just read the OP, and the rest of the thread. So what's the deal? The thread title is about an argument against gay marriage but the OP seems to argue against government banning gay marriages. What's up with that? Did I misread the OP?
Eh, the title was supposed to be more of a challenge: give me a small government argument against gay marriage. I should have worded it a lot better, though, to be honest. Unfortunately most arguments against gay marriage I've encountered are based on religion, as opposed to small government. Ughhh I just want the government out of marriage in general.
Quote from: Iraave on September 12, 2015, 03:04:48 PM
Eh, the title was supposed to be more of a challenge: give me a small government argument against gay marriage.
I'll take a crack at it. It is a waste of public time and money to pretend that a duck is a horse, no matter how much you want it to be.
Quote from: Ultra on September 12, 2015, 03:24:06 PM
I'll take a crack at it. It is a waste of public time and money to pretend that a duck is a horse, no matter how much you want it to be.
Okay, now we're getting somewhere. And I respect this argument a lot.
At the same time, how much public time and money were wasted on feeding and clothing Kim Davis while she was in jail?
Also, outside of Christianity and Islam and a handful of other religions, a lot of people do not see gay marriage differently than heterosexual marriage, unless the only purpose of marriage is to procreate.
And here's my issue: is procreation the only purpose of marriage? There are so many parentless children around the world desperately in need of parents.... but who is going to adopt them?
Single, married, gay, straight, it doesn't matter -- what is the moral argument for having a biological child instead of giving a loving home to a kid who wouldn't have a chance otherwise? Because there are so many kids that need adopting out there. I don't mean this question in a nasty or political way, honestly. It's something I think about a lot and honestly don't know the answer to.
Quote from: Iraave on September 12, 2015, 03:04:48 PM
Eh, the title was supposed to be more of a challenge: give me a small government argument against gay marriage. I should have worded it a lot better, though, to be honest. Unfortunately most arguments against gay marriage I've encountered are based on religion, as opposed to small government. Ughhh I just want the government out of marriage in general.
So what did you expect, you're in a religion forum.
Go out on the main forum, and you'll find most people have cited what Dori stated here many times over.
Quote from: Solar on September 12, 2015, 03:49:00 PM
So what did you expect, you're in a religion forum.
Go out on the main forum, and you'll find most people have cited what Dori stated here many times over.
Well, I didn't originally post this in the religious forum -- some mods moved it over-- but I guess it's appropriate, at this point. Also, for a religious man, you did call me a "stupid god damned kid", and you mentioned how "God you fuckin idiots really piss me off!".
I'm gonna be totally, 100 percent honest. My parents raised me Christian, and they taught me to be loving, forgiving, understanding, and they both would have slapped me for using that kind of language towards anyone. This is why I'm anti-left. This is why I'm anti-Islam. I'm tired of the hatefulness, and I'm also tired of hate being used to justify government legislation of morality.
Jesus defended the people that the law condemned. And again, as I said, Jeasus NEVER ONCE mentioned homosexuality. It was Paul in the New Testament who mentioned it. And yeah, it's a sin. So is taking God's name in in vain (looking at you, Solar), so is envy, so is greed, so is divorce, so is hatefulness. Personally, this is how I try to live: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians+5%3A22-23&version=NIV
Quote from: Iraave on September 12, 2015, 03:33:13 PM
Okay, now we're getting somewhere. And I respect this argument a lot.
At the same time, how much public time and money were wasted on feeding and clothing Kim Davis while she was in jail?
I don't know, judging by her appearance I'm betting it cost a lot to feed her.
QuoteAlso, outside of Christianity and Islam and a handful of other religions, a lot of people do not see gay marriage differently than heterosexual marriage, unless the only purpose of marriage is to procreate.
I don't agree with this. Mankind has thousands of years to draw upon when it comes to understanding marriage. Most of those times and places were not operating under Abrahamic religions yet the obvious norm has been a man and a woman raising children...the nuclear family. There are exceptions but not enough in my opinion to conclude that marriage between a man and a woman is anything other than the natural norm.
QuoteAnd here's my issue: is procreation the only purpose of marriage? There are so many parentless children around the world desperately in need of parents.... but who is going to adopt them?
I'd say that historically procreation and the raising of the resulting children is the purpose of marriage. Some couples can't have kids for various reasons but that doesn't change the norm.
QuoteSingle, married, gay, straight, it doesn't matter -- what is the moral argument for having a biological child instead of giving a loving home to a kid who wouldn't have a chance otherwise? Because there are so many kids that need adopting out there. I don't mean this question in a nasty or political way, honestly. It's something I think about a lot and honestly don't know the answer to.
Why is this dependent upon gays marrying? As far as I know a single gay man or lesbian can adopt kids if they want to.
The question is about small government and gay marriage. I think it's the responsibility of government in any decent society to not subject the society to harm. For a government to attempt to turn a well-established social institution on it's head and ignore thousands of years of societal norm is at best folly, at worst criminal, and definitely not in the best interest of the society. Only an intrusive government would even consider it.
Quote from: Ultra on September 12, 2015, 04:39:23 PM
I don't know, judging by her appearance I'm betting it cost a lot to feed her.
Haha, agreed.
QuoteI don't agree with this. Mankind has thousands of years to draw upon when it comes to understanding marriage. Most of those times and places were not operating under Abrahamic religions yet the obvious norm has been a man and a woman raising children...the nuclear family. There are exceptions but not enough in my opinion to conclude that marriage between a man and a woman is anything other than the natural norm.
Of course, a man and a woman marrying, and fitting into their society in both a socioeconomic and geographic sense, and raising a family that follows in the same path, generation after generation, would be ideal. I am never going to argue against that point. However, we do not live in an ideal world.
I live in New York City, and I know a couple (both girls) that are the kindest, most generous, encouraging, and amazing people I've ever met. One is a lawyer, and one is a filmmaker (you've probably spent money seeing one of her films at some point). They're very close friends to me and their kindness and selflessness puts most actual Christians I've met to shame.
The way their face lit up when they realized they could legally get married made me truly believe in the actual existence of the type of love that Jesus talked about -- in a way I'd never seen in any church before. Actual, honest, real love. I babysit their dogs and I know they'd make better parents than a divorced, hateful so-called Christian.
I grew up with straight parents that divorced, cheated on each other, treated each other like garbage, lied constantly, and had hearts filled with hatred and deceit..... And yes, I'm a straight man, and I was raised by Christian parents, but I don't think that justifies government legislation of marriage in this country.
QuoteI'd say that historically procreation and the raising of the resulting children is the purpose of marriage. Some couples can't have kids for various reasons but that doesn't change the norm.
Right, but how does that legitimize an argument against gay marriage when there are so many kids without decent parents that could use an adoption?
QuoteWhy is this dependent upon gays marrying? As far as I know a single gay man or lesbian can adopt kids if they want to.
It's not, I'm just adding some more perspective to it.
QuoteThe question is about small government and gay marriage. I think it's the responsibility of government in any decent society to not subject the society to harm. For a government to attempt to turn a well-established social institution on it's head and ignore thousands of years of societal norm is at best folly, at worst criminal, and definitely not in the best interest of the society. Only an intrusive government would even consider it.
So what is an intrusive government, at this point?
Quote from: Iraave on September 12, 2015, 04:30:38 PM
Well, I didn't originally post this in the religious forum -- some mods moved it over-- but I guess it's appropriate, at this point. Also, for a religious man, you did call me a "stupid god damned kid", and you mentioned how "God you fuckin idiots really piss me off!".
I'm gonna be totally, 100 percent honest. My parents raised me Christian, and they taught me to be loving, forgiving, understanding, and they both would have slapped me for using that kind of language towards anyone.
So you admit, you're a lib? Only an idiot lib would be offended. for anything! Grow a set and let em drop.
QuoteThis is why I'm anti-left. This is why I'm anti-Islam. I'm tired of the hatefulness, and I'm also tired of hate being used to justify government legislation of morality.
Jesus defended the people that the law condemned. And again, as I said, Jeasus NEVER ONCE mentioned homosexuality. It was Paul in the New Testament who mentioned it. And yeah, it's a sin. So is taking God's name in in vain (looking at you, Solar), so is envy, so is greed, so is divorce, so is hatefulness. Personally, this is how I try to live: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians+5%3A22-23&version=NIV
Reading comprehension issues? Where did I ever say I was a religious man?
Believing in God does not make one a worshiper.
Quote from: Iraave on September 12, 2015, 05:06:54 PM
I live in New York City, and I know a couple (both girls) that are the kindest, most generous, encouraging, and amazing people I've ever met. One is a lawyer, and one is a filmmaker (you've probably spent money seeing one of her films at some point). They're very close friends to me and their kindness and selflessness puts most actual Christians I've met to shame.
The way their face lit up when they realized they could legally get married made me truly believe in the actual existence of the type of love that Jesus talked about -- in a way I'd never seen in any church before. Actual, honest, real love. I babysit their dogs and I know they'd make better parents than a divorced, hateful so-called Christian.
I'm sure they're delightful but what is the first thing they did once they were married...or after the honeymoon? I'm betting they filed for some sort of marriage benefit.
I'm at a disadvantage here. I was raised in a Catholic family but once I was given the choice I left the church and never went back, I'm not into organized religion. I might be wrong about this but from what I remember it is the child/children which results from marriage that pleases God so the lesbians can't have the kind of love Jesus talked about. Plus, IIRC Jesus was very clear as to what a marriage is and two women wasn't even close to what he had in mind.
QuoteI grew up with straight parents that divorced, cheated on each other, treated each other like garbage, lied constantly, and had hearts filled with hatred and deceit..... And yes, I'm a straight man, and I was raised by Christian parents, but I don't think that justifies government legislation of marriage in this country.
Forget about Christianity for a second. Mankind has decided over a period of thousands of years that a father and mother result in the best upbringing for children. It has nothing to do with whether or not they're pleasant people or if the child is happy. It has to do with the end result.
QuoteRight, but how does that legitimize an argument against gay marriage when there are so many kids without decent parents that could use an adoption?
Gay marriage isn't necessary for kids to be adopted by gays, although I do think it's a bad idea for gays to adopt.
QuoteSo what is an intrusive government, at this point?
A government that pretends that marriage needs to be redefined, does so, and then puts people in jail for not accepting the new, clearly asinine definition.
Quote from: Ultra on September 12, 2015, 05:41:10 PM
I'm sure they're delightful but what is the first thing they did once they were married...or after the honeymoon? I'm betting they filed for some sort of marriage benefit.
I'm at a disadvantage here. I was raised in a Catholic family but once I was given the choice I left the church and never went back, I'm not into organized religion. I might be wrong about this but from what I remember it is the child/children which results from marriage that pleases God so the lesbians can't have the kind of love Jesus talked about. Plus, IIRC Jesus was very clear as to what a marriage is and two women wasn't even close to what he had in mind.
Forget about Christianity for a second. Mankind has decided over a period of thousands of years that a father and mother result in the best upbringing for children. It has nothing to do with whether or not they're pleasant people or if the child is happy. It has to do with the end result.
Gay marriage isn't necessary for kids to be adopted by gays, although I do think it's a bad idea for gays to adopt.
A government that pretends that marriage needs to be redefined, does so, and then puts people in jail for not accepting the new, clearly asinine definition.
Well said.
Quote from: Solar on September 12, 2015, 05:39:11 PM
So you admit, you're a lib? Only an idiot lib would be offended. for anything! Grow a set and let em drop.
If I talked trash on your religious idols, you'd probably be offended. Oh wait.....
Man, can't you just admit that you're strongly opposed to religious freedom? You want your interpretation of Christianity to reign in America via the government. You oppose civil liberties, and you want big government. Why is that so hard to admit??
Man as an actual right wing, conservative, believer in small government and civil liberties, this forum is just laughable. Obama stripped our right to bear arms while at the same time spying on us. Ughhhhh how do you people not get this?? Did you never read the Bible?
Quote from: Ultra on September 12, 2015, 05:41:10 PM
I'm sure they're delightful but what is the first thing they did once they were married...or after the honeymoon? I'm betting they filed for some sort of marriage benefit.
I'm at a disadvantage here. I was raised in a Catholic family but once I was given the choice I left the church and never went back, I'm not into organized religion. I might be wrong about this but from what I remember it is the child/children which results from marriage that pleases God so the lesbians can't have the kind of love Jesus talked about. Plus, IIRC Jesus was very clear as to what a marriage is and two women wasn't even close to what he had in mind.
Hey man, Jesus came for the worst of us. We have to love him.
QuoteForget about Christianity for a second. Mankind has decided over a period of thousands of years that a father and mother result in the best upbringing for children. It has nothing to do with whether or not they're pleasant people or if the child is happy. It has to do with the end result.
This is where I'm going to start having to disagree. Marriage is a tentative and tenuous institution... and the fact that straight couple in this country have over a half and half divorce rate should make that clear...
QuoteGay marriage isn't necessary for kids to be adopted by gays, although I do think it's a bad idea for gays to adopt.
QuoteOkay, fine. But the fact is, unadopted children are born every hour and every second, and they need a family.... (http://unadopted.org/why-we-exist/)
QuoteA government that pretends that marriage needs to be redefined, does so, and then puts people in jail for not accepting the new, clearly asinine definition. [/quote.]
QuoteI don't see it that way, and the only reason I believe in love and acceptance, is because I read the Bible and the New Testament. Am I wrong for feeling that way? Should the Bible and Jesus have told me otherwise? Please... tell me if the Bible was wrong.
Quote from: Iraave on September 12, 2015, 07:40:11 PM
If I talked trash on your religious idols, you'd probably be offended. Oh wait.....
Man, can't you just admit that you're strongly opposed to religious freedom? You want your interpretation of Christianity to reign in America via the government. You oppose civil liberties, and you want big government. Why is that so hard to admit??
Man as an actual right wing, conservative, believer in small government and civil liberties, this forum is just laughable. Obama stripped our right to bear arms while at the same time spying on us. Ughhhhh how do you people not get this?? Did you never read the Bible?
Serious question. Do you have mental issues?
response intended for Iraave.
You keep bringing up Jesus. I think I've made it clear that I'm not basing my argument on any religious beliefs, I've based it on social Darwinism if I've based it on anything.
I think divorce is too easy in this country but the divorce rate, as appalling as it is, doesn't justify gay marriage.
I'm not going to give an opinion on the veracity of the Bible, I'm not a Christian and do not wish to engage in that discussion and even if I did wish to it's been so long since I've been to church that I'm not equipped for it. What I do know is that your interpretation of Jesus's opinion of marriage is wrong. It shouldn't matter anyway, the question you posed was about limited government and gay marriage. I've already said that a limited government shouldn't even have the desire to overturn thousands of years of social programming. You keep coming back to me with Jesus talk. I repeat, I am not Christian or even religious and I am not basing my opinion on religious beliefs.
Quote from: Iraave on September 12, 2015, 07:40:11 PM
If I talked trash on your religious idols, you'd probably be offended. Oh wait.....
Man, can't you just admit that you're strongly opposed to religious freedom? You want your interpretation of Christianity to reign in America via the government. You oppose civil liberties, and you want big government. Why is that so hard to admit??
Man as an actual right wing, conservative, believer in small government and civil liberties, this forum is just laughable. Obama stripped our right to bear arms while at the same time spying on us. Ughhhhh how do you people not get this?? Did you never read the Bible?
What in the hell are you talking about?
Quote from: Ultra on September 12, 2015, 08:17:22 PM
response intended for Iraave.
You keep bringing up Jesus. I think I've made it clear that I'm not basing my argument on any religious beliefs, I've based it on social Darwinism if I've based it on anything.
I think divorce is too easy in this country but the divorce rate, as appalling as it is, doesn't justify gay marriage.
I'm not going to give an opinion on the veracity of the Bible, I'm not a Christian and do not wish to engage in that discussion and even if I did wish to it's been so long since I've been to church that I'm not equipped for it. What I do know is that your interpretation of Jesus's opinion of marriage is wrong. It shouldn't matter anyway, the question you posed was about limited government and gay marriage. I've already said that a limited government shouldn't even have the desire to overturn thousands of years of social programming. You keep coming back to me with Jesus talk. I repeat, I am not Christian or even religious and I am not basing my opinion on religious beliefs.
Please use the
quote function it helps our Guests follow along and our regular poster also. This way they don't have to keep going back to see what you're talking about.
Quote from: taxed on September 12, 2015, 08:19:57 PM
What in the hell are you talking about?
It's not that difficult of a concept....