5 Signs of the End Times....

drifter106 · August 02, 2020, 05:38:34 PM

This is all based on Scripture...

1. Gospel must be preached to the whole world. Penetration of the Church into all nations.

2. The great apostasy of the gentiles. (falling away from God, rejection of God)

3. Universal conversion of the Jews to Jesus and the Catholic Church.

4. Revelation of the anti-christ. (will not be the devil...devil is not capable of becoming incarnate...but will be influenced by the devil and his minions)

5. Tribulation...fires, war, earthquakes, famines

There will only be ONE second coming of Jesus Christ

WMK · August 03, 2020, 04:35:00 AM

"Universal conversion of the Jews to Jesus and the Catholic Church."

Not based on Scripture.
Only the conversion of the "elect" need be fulfilled before the Christ returns. For the Jews, the prophecy of their numbers are very specific 144,000 - 12,000 from each of the tribes. And this will occur once they see the Christ.
As for the "Catholic Church", that denomination is never mentioned in Scripture, nor did it exist at that time.

Solar · August 03, 2020, 05:56:42 AM

I think we're safe...

drifter106 · August 03, 2020, 12:25:00 PM

Quote from: WMK on August 03, 2020, 04:35:00 AM

"Universal conversion of the Jews to Jesus and the Catholic Church."

Not based on Scripture.
Only the conversion of the "elect" need be fulfilled before the Christ returns. For the Jews, the prophecy of their numbers are very specific 144,000 - 12,000 from each of the tribes. And this will occur once they see the Christ.
As for the "Catholic Church", that denomination is never mentioned in Scripture, nor did it exist at that time.

Ahhhh....who did Christ make the leader of his Church? Matt 16:18

One more thing....the beginning of the Catholic Church was on Pentecost.

WMK · August 03, 2020, 05:47:04 PM

Quote from: drifter106 on August 03, 2020, 12:25:00 PM
Ahhhh....who did Christ make the leader of his Church? Matt 16:18

One more thing....the beginning of the Catholic Church was on Pentecost.

I think you need to cite those verses. Nowhere do you see "Catholic Church" mentioned.
Nor do you read Peter being told he is the "leader" of the church.
There were 12 Apostles initially, and all were graced with equal power and authority by Christ, who is the "leader" of the Church...His Church, being the "Chief Cornerstone" as stated in Scripture.

drifter106 · August 03, 2020, 07:47:30 PM

You obviously know very little about the early church. I have ran across several people in the same boat as you and continue to deny that Christ established the Catholic Church (universal church) before he Ascended into heaven. I would suggest to you to get informed on the early times in the Church. Up until the reformation the world was either pagan or Catholic. Luther and Henry the VIII was the start of the Protestant Reformation. It still exists to this day. Would like to get into a discussion but just from the tone of your writings you are set in your ways and my effort would be that of trying to urinated up a rope.

WMK · August 04, 2020, 12:32:01 AM

Quote from: drifter106 on August 03, 2020, 07:47:30 PM
You obviously know very little about the early church. I have ran across several people in the same boat as you and continue to deny that Christ established the Catholic Church (universal church) before he Ascended into heaven. I would suggest to you to get informed on the early times in the Church. Up until the reformation the world was either pagan or Catholic. Luther and Henry the VIII was the start of the Protestant Reformation. It still exists to this day. Would like to get into a discussion but just from the tone of your writings you are set in your ways and my effort would be that of trying to urinated up a rope.

I know plenty about 'earlier church history', but it is certainly not the foundation on which genuine Christian doctrine is settled. It it merely history scribed my man.
There is really one one source of Knowledge that a Christian believer should be reliant on, Scripture -OT/NT. For him/her, it is the infallible Word of God. If a belief/doctrine cannot be backed up by Scripture, then it of man and not God - 2nd Timothy 3:16,17.

The only "effort" I asked of you is to cite Scripture verses for your spiritual claims. It's really not that difficult.

Solar · August 04, 2020, 08:06:55 AM

Quote from: WMK on August 04, 2020, 12:32:01 AM
I know plenty about 'earlier church history', but it is certainly not the foundation on which genuine Christian doctrine is settled. It it merely history scribed my man.
There is really one one source of Knowledge that a Christian believer should be reliant on, Scripture -OT/NT. For him/her, it is the infallible Word of God. If a belief/doctrine cannot be backed up by Scripture, then it of man and not God - 2nd Timothy 3:16,17.

The only "effort" I asked of you is to cite Scripture verses for your spiritual claims. It's really not that difficult.

Catholics were taught to believe they are the only church entitled to Christianity. Historians tend to disagree.

WMK · August 04, 2020, 11:12:46 AM

Quote from: Solar on August 04, 2020, 08:06:55 AM
Catholics were taught to believe they are the only church entitled to Christianity. Historians tend to disagree.

Was born and raised a Catholic, so i know whereof you speak. It wasn't till I was 19 that I was baptized at a protestant church.
In retrospect, I will say one thing about my grade-school catholic education; those nuns could throw a hell of a punch when they got pissed!

drifter106 · August 04, 2020, 12:11:46 PM

Quote from: WMK on August 04, 2020, 11:12:46 AM
Was born and raised a Catholic, so i know whereof you speak. It wasn't till I was 19 that I was baptized at a protestant church.
In retrospect, I will say one thing about my grade-school catholic education; those nuns could throw a hell of a punch when they got pissed!

Curious...how can one be born and raised a Catholic and then be baptized AGAIN as a protestant?

Once your baptized...your baptized.

drifter106 · August 04, 2020, 12:17:46 PM

Quote from: Solar on August 04, 2020, 08:06:55 AM
Catholics were taught to believe they are the only church entitled to Christianity. Historians tend to disagree.

That is simple not true Solar.....there are many non catholics who chose to live a life following Jesus' way of thinking. One thing the Catholic Church offers that Protestants don't are the sacraments (of which were instituted by Christ) and the Mass.

What really makes me wonder is how people who chose not to follow the Catholic Church, which is the Church that Christ started, but follow churches created by MEN.

By the way, the only vocation that hasn't been created by man are catholic priests.....the Apostles were the first ordain priests and then their job was to spread his word around the world. This has continued down through 2,000 years. Protestants started their thing in the 1700's....again by MAN not Jesus.

Solar · August 04, 2020, 02:39:39 PM

Quote from: drifter106 on August 04, 2020, 12:17:46 PM
That is simple not true Solar.....there are many non catholics who chose to live a life following Jesus' way of thinking. One thing the Catholic Church offers that Protestants don't are the sacraments (of which were instituted by Christ) and the Mass.

What really makes me wonder is how people who chose not to follow the Catholic Church, which is the Church that Christ started, but follow churches created by MEN.

By the way, the only vocation that hasn't been created by man are catholic priests.....the Apostles were the first ordain priests and then their job was to spread his word around the world. This has continued down through 2,000 years. Protestants started their thing in the 1700's....again by MAN not Jesus.

Then, if true, do you suppose Christ wanted men to be his intermediary to God? I talk to God directly, I don't need anyone speaking on my behalf.
I highly doubt Christ ever intended his church to become as corrupted as it did.

WMK · August 04, 2020, 05:02:16 PM

Quote from: drifter106 on August 04, 2020, 12:11:46 PM
Curious...how can one be born and raised a Catholic and then be baptized AGAIN as a protestant?

Once your baptized...your baptized.

My intention here is not to take this thread off topic, nor is it to spar with you on doctrinal differences. However I will defend Biblical Christianity at every turn, when it's called for.

So as for "baptism" it can only be legitimate after a person consciously accepts the sacrifice of Christ for the remission of sins and eternal salvation. And this can only be accomplished through genuine Faith, which in itself is a gift of God!

As for baptism as an infant, it is merely a religious ritual given to one who has no say or comprehension as to what's taking place. Moreover, if you adhere to NT, doctrine as taught by the Apostles God's instruction is quite clear - be saved (repentance) then be baptized. Acts 2:38-"And Peter said to them, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Baptism is an adjunct to salvation in that it only serves as an outward symbol for an inward experience -being born again.

drifter106 · August 04, 2020, 09:58:24 PM

Quote from: Solar on August 04, 2020, 02:39:39 PM
Then, if true, do you suppose Christ wanted men to be his intermediary to God? I talk to God directly, I don't need anyone speaking on my behalf.
I highly doubt Christ ever intended his church to become as corrupted as it did.

Totally agree Solar about the corruption within the Church. If I can clarify one thing....the Catholic Church is not corrupt, there are many corrupt and sinful people within the Church. Some really sick, bad people who have made terrible choices. If you have read some of the mystics accounts this behavior has been foretold.

Don't know when it is gonna happen but there will be schism coming in the not to distant future within the Church. For those following the events its not that far away.

Its good that one talks and prays to God. Not for sure what you imply when you indicate that you don't need anyone speaking in your behalf.

Maybe your talking about how Catholics pray to the Blessed Virgin Mary?

Are you aware of the Marian Apparations that have taken place over the course of time? If not, could you look and listen insofar as what they revealed? Pretty much the same "show" every time one has occured. Man needs to get away from sin and play by God's rules.

Chastisement is on the horizon....we, as old as we are may not see it.....but its coming...just look at our way of life and the sins that mankind persist in committing.

drifter106 · August 05, 2020, 06:21:00 AM

Quote from: WMK on August 04, 2020, 12:32:01 AM
I know plenty about 'earlier church history', but it is certainly not the foundation on which genuine Christian doctrine is settled. It it merely history scribed my man.
There is really one one source of Knowledge that a Christian believer should be reliant on, Scripture -OT/NT. For him/her, it is the infallible Word of God. If a belief/doctrine cannot be backed up by Scripture, then it of man and not God - 2nd Timothy 3:16,17.

The only "effort" I asked of you is to cite Scripture verses for your spiritual claims. It's really not that difficult.

Who then wrote Scripture? Since you indicate you know plenty about "the early church" you would know the authors.

You say "if a belief/doctrine cannot be backed up by Scripture" what say you about the Catholic Mass? Its right there in the New Testament....