Hey you guys. I'm a German well in his 20s and I happen to like America a lot.

For some reason I kinda sympathize with the US conservatives more than with the US liberals. I guess most Europeans who like America do in one way or another. If you ask me, there are good reasons why Arnold is a liberal conservative and not a conservative liberal. But that's another story.

What I'm all about is America succeeding. I'm not sure if you are gonna take this seriously, but let's just say I'm working hard to get a good education so I can make it to America and help making this crazy experiment of a country of yours keep on going. Because I believe that the US is still the heart of Western Civilization, and maybe even the last hope of it.

My problem is that flame war you guys seem to be stuck in. On the one hand my friends in AZ and CA are pretty alright, even though some of them are Christian conservatives and some are pro-European liberals. You know, the way it should be... people of different opinions making the US the great place it still is.
But on the other hand there is this thing going on where conservatives act like all the liberals were naive communists and all the liberals act like all the conservatives were backwards morons.

I'm not having a problem with your conflict at all. Actually I think people NOT agreeing is an essential part of what makes America great. But lately it seems that you guys tend to forget how to use these disagreements in a constrictive manner.

Let's just take a look at this:

- Debt/taxes
American conservatives tend to dislike taxes. Well, makes perfect sense to me, of course. But you guys are in deep debt, you're at war, you know? I'm all for an efficient government, but by having your government spend more than you are willing to pay, you're just leaving more debt to future Americans. That sucks, because having them to pay for your debt is even worse than higher taxes.

- Energy
Many conservatives don't like the whole "Golabal Warming" thing. Do I believe in CO2 somehow destroying the planet? Well, I don't. Actually I think we still don't have a real clue what's gonna happen to our climate, because we don't know enough of the factors.
But why are so many conservatives sticking with energy that's not gonna make sense in the future? In my opinion the whole "Smart Grid" idea is pretty awesome. I'd like to have individual homes acting as small power stations much more than I like centralized power stations by some big corporation. Why don't American conservatives usually support this? I'd sure like to have those "average Joes" producing their own electricity, being independent, and maybe even working at plants that produce solar panels etc.

- Self responsibility
To me conservatives should be about the individual making good decisions and being the best they can be. Then those individuals should create a well working society. Guess what, that's my ideal, too. But then I see conservatives i the US using the government to enforce their own moral values. Which didn't work for alcohol, doesn't work for the "War on Drugs", and wouldn't work for things like abortion (no matter how cruel and morally wrong abortion is).
I know the root of your country, I know that in an ideal world people would work hard and raise good kids and just say no to alcohol and drugs. I respect anyone of you who actively tries to achieve this goal. But it's just one of the things where government shouldn't have responsibility for. That's the business of parents and families, I think.

- Health
Well, I'm part of the small minority of Europeans who think that you shouldn't copy our systems and that there are people in America who just don't WANT any health insurance.
But you guys still need to change something, and you should know it. Have you checked the amount of money your health system costs? Is that what you guys call efficient?
You guys need to find a solution that will last for a long time. By now you guys know about people getting fatter and older. Also you know about the costs of people in your ERs who have serious illnesses now, because there was no prevention at all for a lack of insurance.
So what is keeping you from finding a new solution? You guys are the most innovative and wealthy nation on earth, and you can't find any better way to deal with this stuff?

Alright, I just stop here for now. I'm very interested in your opinions. Don't be too mad at me, I'm just trying to figure out where my favorite country might be heading and what could be done to fix the problems it has.

Greets,
Oliver

Welcome to the board, Foreigner!

You present a rather wide palette of issues, and it'll take some time for us to get you any specific responses. But know that you're with a good bunch of folks who'll respect you for who you prove to be. Many of us, like you, have deep-seated misgivings about where our country is going, and we're doing all we can to reverse the trend. We welcome an outside viewpoint like yours; it helps us see how others see us, and that's a good thing.

I, for one, will be posting in response to your thoughtful OP.

Again, WELCOME!!!

You posed a lot of issues there Foreigner, and I'll just pick one: Energy. Because I work in energy (specifically nuclear energy).

Most of your points on these issues is pretty consistent with someone that has the will to find out about the problems, but doesn't know where to find the right answers and separate truth from fiction. The "smart grid" as you brought up is not something that conservatives are against, or is even really a political issue. I attended a Smart Grid conference not too long ago, and it isn't really about individual homes generating electricity, but about bringing a rather antiquated electrical grid into the 21st century. This is done by using control systems and web-integrated systems to better distribute the already massive amounts of energy produced by American power plants; coal, gas, nuclear, and otherwise. The guys at the conference felt that the already generated energy in the United States could improve efficiency by some 50% simply by using smart grid technology.

As to why conservatives aren't into renewable energy such as solar or wind. It is simple: we look at it from a capitalist angle, while "liberals" look at it from an ideological angle. They want an energy system that is 100% renewable and waste-neutral. Trust me, even conservatives would love to see that. But we also understand that science and engineering haven't quite provided the technology to make things like solar and wind profitable. And since conservatives operate within the realm of reality and not fantasy as our liberal counterparts do, we realize that coal and natural gas are the best way to keep our lights burning and motors turning. I would personally love to see more nuclear energy used, but people fear what they do not understand, and so they fear nuclear energy, even though it produces no pollution at all like coal and gas do. Again, realizing this is just acceptance of reality.

Someday, more efficient and less pollutant forms of energy will be available, because they will be profitable. But that is not yet the case, and it is silly to force it through government programs. We don't stick with energy solutions that belong in the future for that very reason: they belong in the future. When such energy solutions become viable, we'll line up behind them. It is simply a myth that American conservatives actually want to use inefficient energy sources and pollute the environment. We just are able to deal with reality, and make choices based on what actually works now, not what might work someday.

Quote from: Foreigner on July 14, 2012, 08:19:12 PM
Hey you guys. I'm a German well in his 20s and I happen to like America a lot.

For some reason I kinda sympathize with the US conservatives more than with the US liberals. I guess most Europeans who like America do in one way or another. If you ask me, there are good reasons why Arnold is a liberal conservative and not a conservative liberal. But that's another story.

What I'm all about is America succeeding. I'm not sure if you are gonna take this seriously, but let's just say I'm working hard to get a good education so I can make it to America and help making this crazy experiment of a country of yours keep on going. Because I believe that the US is still the heart of Western Civilization, and maybe even the last hope of it.

Welcome Oliver, glad you joined us.
We on the Right want the same.

QuoteMy problem is that flame war you guys seem to be stuck in. On the one hand my friends in AZ and CA are pretty alright, even though some of them are Christian conservatives and some are pro-European liberals. You know, the way it should be... people of different opinions making the US the great place it still is.
But on the other hand there is this thing going on where conservatives act like all the liberals were naive communists and all the liberals act like all the conservatives were backwards morons.

I'm not having a problem with your conflict at all. Actually I think people NOT agreeing is an essential part of what makes America great. But lately it seems that you guys tend to forget how to use these disagreements in a constrictive manner.

Let's just take a look at this:

- Debt/taxes
American conservatives tend to dislike taxes. Well, makes perfect sense to me, of course. But you guys are in deep debt, you're at war, you know? I'm all for an efficient government, but by having your government spend more than you are willing to pay, you're just leaving more debt to future Americans. That sucks, because having them to pay for your debt is even worse than higher taxes.

We have a huge problem with it as well, and both parties are guilty of over spending and may mean our death.

Quote- Energy
Many conservatives don't like the whole "Golabal Warming" thing. Do I believe in CO2 somehow destroying the planet? Well, I don't. Actually I think we still don't have a real clue what's gonna happen to our climate, because we don't know enough of the factors.
But why are so many conservatives sticking with energy that's not gonna make sense in the future? In my opinion the whole "Smart Grid" idea is pretty awesome. I'd like to have individual homes acting as small power stations much more than I like centralized power stations by some big corporation. Why don't American conservatives usually support this? I'd sure like to have those "average Joes" producing their own electricity, being independent, and maybe even working at plants that produce solar panels etc.

The whole Green movement is based in marxist ideals, so don't be fooled by the claim that we are destroying the planet with Co2.
As to energy of tomorrow, it's here today and pretty much forever, it's called nuclear, but the US also has easily more than a thousand years of fossil fuel at our disposal, the left simply won't let us tap onto it.
Solar is probably one of the biggest scams foist on the American people, it has absolutely no place on the grid.
I have been in the alternative energy field for more than twenty years, even live on today and love it, but it is best suited as a stand alone system.
Alternatives are too unpredictable, the utilities can't depend on them from day to day depending on the weather.
Nuclear on the other hand can quickly create the energy needed at any given second.

Quote- Self responsibility
To me conservatives should be about the individual making good decisions and being the best they can be. Then those individuals should create a well working society. Guess what, that's my ideal, too. But then I see conservatives i the US using the government to enforce their own moral values. Which didn't work for alcohol, doesn't work for the "War on Drugs", and wouldn't work for things like abortion (no matter how cruel and morally wrong abortion is).
I know the root of your country, I know that in an ideal world people would work hard and raise good kids and just say no to alcohol and drugs. I respect anyone of you who actively tries to achieve this goal. But it's just one of the things where government shouldn't have responsibility for. That's the business of parents and families, I think.

I'm somewhat in agreement, unfortunately the left has used our laws against us to bring about moral degradation, so Conservatives have no other recourse than to use the courts.
But I agree, it has always been the way of our nation to raise children with a moral compass, but that sadly no longer applies.

Quote- Health
Well, I'm part of the small minority of Europeans who think that you shouldn't copy our systems and that there are people in America who just don't WANT any health insurance.
But you guys still need to change something, and you should know it. Have you checked the amount of money your health system costs? Is that what you guys call efficient?
You guys need to find a solution that will last for a long time. By now you guys know about people getting fatter and older. Also you know about the costs of people in your ERs who have serious illnesses now, because there was no prevention at all for a lack of insurance.
So what is keeping you from finding a new solution? You guys are the most innovative and wealthy nation on earth, and you can't find any better way to deal with this stuff?

We know the answer, we need to get rid of Unions in both Govt. and the private sector, they are no longer necessary, we have laws in place to handle any problems, but Unions are a cancer on our society, one that needs to be removed.
Our health care problem started with the Unions .

QuoteAlright, I just stop here for now. I'm very interested in your opinions. Don't be too mad at me, I'm just trying to figure out where my favorite country might be heading and what could be done to fix the problems it has.

Greets,
Oliver

I have no reason to be mad at you, you seem to have a  pretty good grasp of what is happening in this country.
I say wait till Nov when we take back our country from the socialists and bury them for the next 30 years.
If you really want to understand Conservatives, as opposed to Republicans, study the Tea party and what we stand for.

Howdy Foreigner,

Glad you're on board my friend...

Quote from: Keln on July 14, 2012, 08:48:44 PM
You posed a lot of issues there Foreigner, and I'll just pick one: Energy. Because I work in energy (specifically nuclear energy).

Most of your points on these issues is pretty consistent with someone that has the will to find out about the problems, but doesn't know where to find the right answers and separate truth from fiction. The "smart grid" as you brought up is not something that conservatives are against, or is even really a political issue. I attended a Smart Grid conference not too long ago, and it isn't really about individual homes generating electricity, but about bringing a rather antiquated electrical grid into the 21st century. This is done by using control systems and web-integrated systems to better distribute the already massive amounts of energy produced by American power plants; coal, gas, nuclear, and otherwise. The guys at the conference felt that the already generated energy in the United States could improve efficiency by some 50% simply by using smart grid technology.

As to why conservatives aren't into renewable energy such as solar or wind. It is simple: we look at it from a capitalist angle, while "liberals" look at it from an ideological angle. They want an energy system that is 100% renewable and waste-neutral. Trust me, even conservatives would love to see that. But we also understand that science and engineering haven't quite provided the technology to make things like solar and wind profitable. And since conservatives operate within the realm of reality and not fantasy as our liberal counterparts do, we realize that coal and natural gas are the best way to keep our lights burning and motors turning. I would personally love to see more nuclear energy used, but people fear what they do not understand, and so they fear nuclear energy, even though it produces no pollution at all like coal and gas do. Again, realizing this is just acceptance of reality.

Someday, more efficient and less pollutant forms of energy will be available, because they will be profitable. But that is not yet the case, and it is silly to force it through government programs. We don't stick with energy solutions that belong in the future for that very reason: they belong in the future. When such energy solutions become viable, we'll line up behind them. It is simply a myth that American conservatives actually want to use inefficient energy sources and pollute the environment. We just are able to deal with reality, and make choices based on what actually works now, not what might work someday.

VERY well said, Keln! Foreigner, I'll adopt Keln's excellent presentation of energy issues as my own, and I'll spice it with Solar's vision -- that the obvious and inescapable solution to energy production in the US is nuclear energy. Based on their arguments, the left has little to offer except reverting to prehistoric conditions as a solution to what it sees as "problems." They want the literal devolution of human society to  at least early-nineteenth century conditions as the price for saving Mother Earth, whom they cannot even prove is in peril because of anything humans have done.

I read an article recently that claimed that, in order to power New York City with purely solar energy, based on current technology, the collector field would be roughly the size of Connecticut. It is not beyond our ability to build that. But it is beyond the barest common sense.

Quote from: Solar on July 14, 2012, 08:59:29 PM
Our health care problem started with the Unions.

Almost. Well, not even almost.

Our health care problem started with the federal government, which decided in early 1942, just weeks after Pearl Harbor, to stick its camel's nose under the tent flap AGAIN and impose wage and price controls for the purpose of preventing price and wage inflation that would normally be expected in a wartime economy. Very quickly, private employers, flush with production contracts, faced difficulty attracting skilled workers because they couldn't offer higher wages due to the government controls.

However, the government decided that fringe benefits, including especially health care insurance, were not covered under the wage and price controls. Bingo! Unintended Consequences 0101. Employers in droves began offering comprehensive health insurance plans -- a product almost unknown before 1940 -- to every Tom, Dick and... Harriet as an incentive to jump ship. After the war, the federal government reinforced the spread of health insurance with two more directives. First, that employer-financed health insurance was immune to payroll and income taxes. Second, that said insurance was actually a component of the overall wage structure (yeah, the exact opposite of what they said in 1942...) and therefore subject to inclusion in labor agreement negotiations. THAT is when the unions got in on it -- after the federal government had literally led them to the trough.

In 1940, comprehensive health insurance was practically unknown. By 1950, just ten years later, a large majority of Americans had it, one way or another, thanks to the actions of Uncle Sam. The unions, as usual, just boarded the gravy train and rode it to the end of the line.

Quote from: Solar on July 14, 2012, 08:59:29 PM

As to energy of tomorrow, it's here today and pretty much forever, it's called nuclear, but the US also has easily more than a thousand years of fossil fuel at our disposal, the left simply won't let us tap onto it.
Solar is probably one of the biggest scams foist on the American people, it has absolutely no place on the grid.
I have been in the alternative energy field for more than twenty years, even live on today and love it, but it is best suited as a stand alone system.
Alternatives are too unpredictable, the utilities can't depend on them from day to day depending on the weather.
Nuclear on the other hand can quickly create the energy needed at any given second.I'm somewhat in agreement, unfortunately the left has used our laws against us to bring about moral degradation, so Conservatives have no other recourse than to use the courts.

As I said before, I work in the nuclear industry, and I understand, as apparently you do, that nuclear energy is exactly the answer that environmentalists have been looking for. It is clean, efficient, and available. But there are two problems with it, none to do with waste:

1. People are afraid of nuclear power. My own parents, hardcore "conservatives" though they are, and strong believers in nuclear energy because of me most likely, have told me point blank that they would not be in favor of a nuclear power plant in their own neighborhood in Texas. How nuclear power works, and what radiation is, has not been significantly taught to people, and so they are ignorant of it. The burning of fossil fuels is analogous to running a car engine, and so people can understand it enough to trust it. They can visually see the exhaust from even a coal plant, and so feel comfortable with it. They cannot see whatever comes out of a nuclear plant, and so are afraid of it. This is especially true of generations that were brought up during the Cold War, and were warned about "particles" from nuclear fallout. Because of this, nuclear energy is not viable in the market place, no matter how good it is. It would take a concerted effort to educate people about both nuclear energy and radiation to find public acceptance. And as America is governed by, for, and of the people...unless the people learn to accept nuclear energy, there is no point in forcing it down their throats.

2. The second problem with Nuclear Energy, as it pertains to solving problems for environmentalists, is that it doesn't solve the actual problem. The actual problem is not renewable energy, nor is it polluting the environment. The actual problem, as far as the left is concerned, is that industry continues to enjoy success, while leftists ideology suffers. Simply put, the left does not wish for a solution. They wish for a perpetual problem. That is why they constantly offer solutions that they well know will not work. They want to present a situation where all of their solutions fail, so as to give them the opportunity to "solve" the problem with public consent by instituting regulation of industry, thus controlling it. The left cares not about pollution or environmental hazards. They care only about gaining enough control to implement their stupid ideas. Politicians on the left go along with it, because they simply want power. It is a symbiosis of the desire of power and ideology that drives these people to present such global problems and present such dire solutions.

What if I told you, that in fact, there isn't a problem at all? That's the real trick. The left convinces everyone that there is a problem, and when the right can't offer a solution to it (because there is no solution to non-existent problem), the left seems wise to the masses when it presents just about anything as a solution. This is known as a fallacious paradox. And it is from that, which the left operates.

Nuclear is totally the way to go.

Quote from: taxed on July 14, 2012, 10:26:48 PM
Nuclear is totally the way to go.

No it is not.

Jane Fonda said so.

Quote from: Keln on July 14, 2012, 10:24:13 PM
As I said before, I work in the nuclear industry, and I understand, as apparently you do, that nuclear energy is exactly the answer that environmentalists have been looking for. It is clean, efficient, and available. But there are two problems with it, none to do with waste:

1. People are afraid of nuclear power. My own parents, hardcore "conservatives" though they are, and strong believers in nuclear energy because of me most likely, have told me point blank that they would not be in favor of a nuclear power plant in their own neighborhood in Texas. How nuclear power works, and what radiation is, has not been significantly taught to people, and so they are ignorant of it. The burning of fossil fuels is analogous to running a car engine, and so people can understand it enough to trust it. They can visually see the exhaust from even a coal plant, and so feel comfortable with it. They cannot see whatever comes out of a nuclear plant, and so are afraid of it. This is especially true of generations that were brought up during the Cold War, and were warned about "particles" from nuclear fallout. Because of this, nuclear energy is not viable in the market place, no matter how good it is. It would take a concerted effort to educate people about both nuclear energy and radiation to find public acceptance. And as America is governed by, for, and of the people...unless the people learn to accept nuclear energy, there is no point in forcing it down their throats.

2. The second problem with Nuclear Energy, as it pertains to solving problems for environmentalists, is that it doesn't solve the actual problem. The actual problem is not renewable energy, nor is it polluting the environment. The actual problem, as far as the left is concerned, is that industry continues to enjoy success, while leftists ideology suffers. Simply put, the left does not wish for a solution. They wish for a perpetual problem. That is why they constantly offer solutions that they well know will not work. They want to present a situation where all of their solutions fail, so as to give them the opportunity to "solve" the problem with public consent by instituting regulation of industry, thus controlling it. The left cares not about pollution or environmental hazards. They care only about gaining enough control to implement their stupid ideas. Politicians on the left go along with it, because they simply want power. It is a symbiosis of the desire of power and ideology that drives these people to present such global problems and present such dire solutions.

What if I told you, that in fact, there isn't a problem at all? That's the real trick. The left convinces everyone that there is a problem, and when the right can't offer a solution to it (because there is no solution to non-existent problem), the left seems wise to the masses when it presents just about anything as a solution. This is known as a fallacious paradox. And it is from that, which the left operates.

You nailed the second reason!

Libs lives are full of fear and desperation, they "Feel" they are useless in life and living without a purpose, these people need a distraction from their own lives, so they create problems in others, so as to have a goal in life.
These are the ecofreaks of the world, the ones finding problems where none exist (AGW), like a blemish on a young girls face, she picks at it till it becomes an issue and needs medical attention.
Physically these people look fine, but on the inside, they're a paradox of right and wrong for all the wrong reasons.

Quote from: Keln on July 14, 2012, 08:48:44 PM
You posed a lot of issues there Foreigner, and I'll just pick one: Energy. Because I work in energy (specifically nuclear energy).

Most of your points on these issues is pretty consistent with someone that has the will to find out about the problems, but doesn't know where to find the right answers and separate truth from fiction. The "smart grid" as you brought up is not something that conservatives are against, or is even really a political issue. I attended a Smart Grid conference not too long ago, and it isn't really about individual homes generating electricity, but about bringing a rather antiquated electrical grid into the 21st century. This is done by using control systems and web-integrated systems to better distribute the already massive amounts of energy produced by American power plants; coal, gas, nuclear, and otherwise. The guys at the conference felt that the already generated energy in the United States could improve efficiency by some 50% simply by using smart grid technology.

Actually yes and no on the Smart Grid issue.
As a Conservative I am Hell bent against it for different reasons.
As you mentioned, libs go after issues where none exist and worry it till there are.

For example, putting restrictions on utilities to the point where they struggle to meet demands, bow they suddenly have a problem.
So lets fine tune the problem by forcing the utilities to work with what little energy they have.
Enter the Smart Grid, benign enough on it's face, but it has some hidden issues within it's ability to sense minute changes in demand.
One of these is giving the utility the ability to see what appliance is currently being used, say for example, when your toaster is in use, or when you turn off your TV and go to sleep.
Big deal, most would say, but it opens the door for Govt intrusion on one more level.
Conspiracy? No, sadly it's not, because what is going to happen in the future, is the Govt will be demanding that electric cars pay for their fair share of the highway, a tax they have been avoiding by plugging into the house.
Where the Smart Meter comes in is it's ability to track usage and allow the Govt to tax accordingly.

I agree, the Smart Meter is extremely efficient and would save utilities a lot of money, but it opens the door and allows the Govt to dictate behavior like never before.

Quote from: Foreigner on July 14, 2012, 08:19:12 PM
Hey you guys. I'm a German well in his 20s and I happen to like America a lot.

For some reason I kinda sympathize with the US conservatives more than with the US liberals. I guess most Europeans who like America do in one way or another. If you ask me, there are good reasons why Arnold is a liberal conservative and not a conservative liberal. But that's another story.

What I'm all about is America succeeding. I'm not sure if you are gonna take this seriously, but let's just say I'm working hard to get a good education so I can make it to America and help making this crazy experiment of a country of yours keep on going. Because I believe that the US is still the heart of Western Civilization, and maybe even the last hope of it.

My problem is that flame war you guys seem to be stuck in. On the one hand my friends in AZ and CA are pretty alright, even though some of them are Christian conservatives and some are pro-European liberals. You know, the way it should be... people of different opinions making the US the great place it still is.
But on the other hand there is this thing going on where conservatives act like all the liberals were naive communists and all the liberals act like all the conservatives were backwards morons.

I'm not having a problem with your conflict at all. Actually I think people NOT agreeing is an essential part of what makes America great. But lately it seems that you guys tend to forget how to use these disagreements in a constrictive manner.

Let's just take a look at this:

- Debt/taxes
American conservatives tend to dislike taxes. Well, makes perfect sense to me, of course. But you guys are in deep debt, you're at war, you know? I'm all for an efficient government, but by having your government spend more than you are willing to pay, you're just leaving more debt to future Americans. That sucks, because having them to pay for your debt is even worse than higher taxes.

- Energy
Many conservatives don't like the whole "Golabal Warming" thing. Do I believe in CO2 somehow destroying the planet? Well, I don't. Actually I think we still don't have a real clue what's gonna happen to our climate, because we don't know enough of the factors.
But why are so many conservatives sticking with energy that's not gonna make sense in the future? In my opinion the whole "Smart Grid" idea is pretty awesome. I'd like to have individual homes acting as small power stations much more than I like centralized power stations by some big corporation. Why don't American conservatives usually support this? I'd sure like to have those "average Joes" producing their own electricity, being independent, and maybe even working at plants that produce solar panels etc.

- Self responsibility
To me conservatives should be about the individual making good decisions and being the best they can be. Then those individuals should create a well working society. Guess what, that's my ideal, too. But then I see conservatives i the US using the government to enforce their own moral values. Which didn't work for alcohol, doesn't work for the "War on Drugs", and wouldn't work for things like abortion (no matter how cruel and morally wrong abortion is).
I know the root of your country, I know that in an ideal world people would work hard and raise good kids and just say no to alcohol and drugs. I respect anyone of you who actively tries to achieve this goal. But it's just one of the things where government shouldn't have responsibility for. That's the business of parents and families, I think.

- Health
Well, I'm part of the small minority of Europeans who think that you shouldn't copy our systems and that there are people in America who just don't WANT any health insurance.
But you guys still need to change something, and you should know it. Have you checked the amount of money your health system costs? Is that what you guys call efficient?
You guys need to find a solution that will last for a long time. By now you guys know about people getting fatter and older. Also you know about the costs of people in your ERs who have serious illnesses now, because there was no prevention at all for a lack of insurance.
So what is keeping you from finding a new solution? You guys are the most innovative and wealthy nation on earth, and you can't find any better way to deal with this stuff?

Alright, I just stop here for now. I'm very interested in your opinions. Don't be too mad at me, I'm just trying to figure out where my favorite country might be heading and what could be done to fix the problems it has.

Greets,
Oliver

Outstanding post.

I hope you post frequently because so far I am liking the cut of your jib.

It's often refreshing to see an outside perspective on things.

Hey guys, I just wanted to say I'm alive and well. Just been very busy.
Actually I don't have much time until later today, but here's a few things in reply to your posts:

Quote from: Keln on July 14, 2012, 08:48:44 PM
As to why conservatives aren't into renewable energy such as solar or wind. It is simple: we look at it from a capitalist angle, while "liberals" look at it from an ideological angle.

Yeah, I know what you mean. But I think even many of those who pretend to have said ideological angle really have solid capitalist reasons. Renewable energy is a billion dollar business and it's probably going to keep growing.
From my strange "between the chairs" point of view, a country like the U.S. where so much innovation came and still does come from would be better off developing and ideally building solar panels etc. in the long run, compared to sticking with coal and nuclear power. I just don't see any opportunities for the latter to innovate, you know?

Quote from: Keln on July 14, 2012, 08:48:44 PMBut we also understand that science and engineering haven't quite provided the technology to make things like solar and wind profitable.

True. But if you want science and engineering to make it profitable, and especially if you want that science and engineering to be American, you need to set goals and push it. That's what China and us Germans do. Since we're the both biggest export nations in the world, I doubt it's done based on romantic feelings. ;)

Quote from: Keln on July 14, 2012, 08:48:44 PM
And since conservatives operate within the realm of reality and not fantasy as our liberal counterparts do, we realize that coal and natural gas are the best way to keep our lights burning and motors turning.

Well, I guess most people just operate withing different realms of reality. Then there's some insane people, both within conservatives and liberals. But you're still right about the current state of some old fashioned energy being necessary. Especially gas. Coal power plants aren't flexible enough in a grid with renewable energy that keeps going up and down.

Quote from: Keln on July 14, 2012, 08:48:44 PMI would personally love to see more nuclear energy used, but people fear what they do not understand, ...

That's kind of street smart of those people, I think. More people should have been afraid of what they don't understand before they invested and eventually lost all that money lately.

Quote from: Keln on July 14, 2012, 08:48:44 PM
and so they fear nuclear energy, even though it produces no pollution at all like coal and gas do. Again, realizing this is just acceptance of reality.

Well, what about the waste then? Keeps getting more, needs to get taken care of, costs a growing amount of money for... well, forever?

Quote from: Keln on July 14, 2012, 08:48:44 PM
We don't stick with energy solutions that belong in the future for that very reason: they belong in the future. When such energy solutions become viable, we'll line up behind them.

I know what you mean, but I'm worried about the slippery slope between lining up behind them once it's all figured out and lining up behind in figuring it out and therefore lining up behind technologically on a global scale.

Quote from: Keln on July 14, 2012, 08:48:44 PM
It is simply a myth that American conservatives actually want to use inefficient energy sources and pollute the environment. We just are able to deal with reality, and make choices based on what actually works now, not what might work someday.

You're very right for not going crazy with actually installing renewable energy. Which is pretty much what we're doing in Germany for years. Our energy costs might very well explode soon, because everyone who put solar panels on their roof get some government guaranteed money for the next 20 years. So now we have lots of people in cloudy Germany having solar panels on their houses and a huge part of the costs is paid by an extra tax on everyone's energy price. You better don't copy that approach, of course.
You guys should take a better look on the rest of the world to figure out what works now and then think long and hard about what might work someday. To make sure America is going to play a role when it comes to someday's technological innovation.



Oh, now I'm running late, gonna be back later. Looking forward to your responses to what I wrote so far.

QuoteYou're very right for not going crazy with actually installing renewable energy. Which is pretty much what we're doing in Germany for years. Our energy costs might very well explode soon, because everyone who put solar panels on their roof get some government guaranteed money for the next 20 years. So now we have lots of people in cloudy Germany having solar panels on their houses and a huge part of the costs is paid by an extra tax on everyone's energy price. You better don't copy that approach, of course.
You guys should take a better look on the rest of the world to figure out what works now and then think long and hard about what might work someday. To make sure America is going to play a role when it comes to someday's technological innovation.

The fascinating thing that I always noticed is that even those left loons who are all for "renewable" energy aren't really for anything you need to do to get it. They're fighting tooth and nail to keep rare earths - which you need for solar panels - from being minded in Alaska. Have some useless desert that would be fine for solar panels? Guarantee some animals rights group will find a rare grasshopper, in order to block putting those panels up. How about environmentally pure California. When the brown outs started, they thought it was unfair that neighboring states - which had kept their power plants - wanted to charge them all the traffic would bear. As opposed to them charging what Californians wanted to pay them - which wouldn't even have covered the cost of running the plants. Sustainable energy types are never for windmills of their coasts. Did you know that enviro-insane California is sitting on more oil and gas, than OPEC member Nigeria. But all those oil platforms, might ruin their view. It's a mindset that believes energy is produced just behind the outlet in the wall.