Quote from: ZenMode on August 20, 2023, 10:05:52 AMThere are two ways the government can acquire land. One is taking it through eminent domain and the other is buying land from private people. He said nothing about requiring people to get government approval. If he goes that route, that would be massive government overreach. All he is said is that he is wanting the government to buy land, which there is nothing wrong with, to avoid foreign investors taking advantage of people. Again, he could be completely wrong about the need to protect people from foreign investors. He could be wrong that there will be a massive influx of foreign investors looking to buy land. However, all that he is said is that he would like the government to buy private land rather than that private land being sold to investors. Nothing about government approval. Nothing about eminent domain. There is no basis, at this point, for the belief that this is some evil plot by the government of Hawaii.

It's Hawaii, define "Foreign". Locals see everyone not local as foreign.
What you don't seem to grasp was his claim of predatory investors, meaning anyone looking for an opportunity to invest, can be seen as predatory, where he claims Govt will be there to buy the land first.

You don't see a problem with that? Please, stop insulting our readers with your clueless idiocy!

I told you to look up "workforce housing" and its origins, it is by all accounts Marxist Based!

Quote from: ZenMode on August 20, 2023, 08:41:29 AMAgain, the claim is that his speech was advocating a massive government land grab. He may be wrong about people needing protection. He may be wrong about the state's ability to intervene in private transactions. He may not be considering that what he wants to do isn't legal. That is all completely independent from the claim that there is a planned government land grab. I see no bases for that. It sounds like conspiracy theory thinking.

Direct quote from the governor.

QuoteHawaii Governor: "I'm already thinking of ways for the state to acquire that land"

There should be no question, this is a land grab.

Quote from: Possum on August 20, 2023, 12:36:21 PMDirect quote from the governor.

There should be no question, this is a land grab.

Pure Marxist BS! Here's the full quote.

"I'm already thinking of ways for the state to acquire that land so that we can put it into workforce housing, to put it back into families, or make it open spaces in perpetuity as a memorial to the people who were lost."

"We want this to be something we remember after the pain passes as a magic place. Lahaina will rebuild. The tragedy right now is the loss of life.

The buildings can be rebuilt over time, even the banyan tree may survive, but we don't want this to become a clear space where then people from overseas just come and decide they're gonna take it. The state will take it and preserve it first."

"I've reached out to the Attorney General to explore options to do a moratorium on any sales of properties that have been damaged or destroyed," Green said in a press release.

"Moreover, I would caution people that it's going to be a very long time, before any growth, or housing can be built.

And so, you would be pretty poorly informed if you try to steal land from our people and then build here."

Quote from: Possum on August 20, 2023, 12:36:21 PMDirect quote from the governor.

There should be no question, this is a land grab.

Great. Now do you want to add the context?

Quote from: Solar on August 20, 2023, 12:44:16 PMPure Marxist BS! Here's the full quote.

"I'm already thinking of ways for the state to acquire that land so that we can put it into workforce housing, to put it back into families, or make it open spaces in perpetuity as a memorial to the people who were lost."

"We want this to be something we remember after the pain passes as a magic place. Lahaina will rebuild. The tragedy right now is the loss of life.

The buildings can be rebuilt over time, even the banyan tree may survive, but we don't want this to become a clear space where then people from overseas just come and decide they're gonna take it. The state will take it and preserve it first."

"I've reached out to the Attorney General to explore options to do a moratorium on any sales of properties that have been damaged or destroyed," Green said in a press release.

"Moreover, I would caution people that it's going to be a very long time, before any growth, or housing can be built.

And so, you would be pretty poorly informed if you try to steal land from our people and then build here."

First, I'm guessing the AG is going to shut him down because the government should not be allowed to stop the sale of private property.  But, let's say he is given the OK by the AG, he's already said what he wants to do with the land and it's not "grab"- he wants to use it for workforce housing, memorials or get it back to families.

Unless workforce housing is something bad what makes you think he wants to take land and keep it?

Quote from: ZenMode on August 20, 2023, 08:34:12 PMFirst, I'm guessing the AG is going to shut him down because the government should not be allowed to stop the sale of private property.  But, let's say he is given the OK by the AG, he's already said what he wants to do with the land and it's not "grab"- he wants to use it for workforce housing, memorials or get it back to families.

Unless workforce housing is something bad what makes you think he wants to take land and keep it?

I would be surprised if the majority of the property owners did NOT have property insurance that included fire damage. In every other disaster like this, either insurance pays the property owner damages to rebuild, or the government subsidizes low interest loans to rebuild, or the property owner sells the property to someone else to recoup some of his losses.

How many communities in the US have been rebuilt after tornadoes/wild fires/hurricane damage? I don't recall state or feds trying to prevent someone from selling property in any of those instances, or building "workforce housing", etc...

Quote from: ZenMode on August 20, 2023, 07:16:29 PMGreat. Now do you want to add the context?

Solar posted the direct quote right above yours.

Quote from: ZenMode on August 20, 2023, 08:34:12 PMFirst, I'm guessing the AG is going to shut him down because the government should not be allowed to stop the sale of private property.  But, let's say he is given the OK by the AG, he's already said what he wants to do with the land and it's not "grab"- he wants to use it for workforce housing, memorials or get it back to families.

Unless workforce housing is something bad what makes you think he wants to take land and keep it?

Is there a reason you trust Marxists to never have bad intentions or lie, despite their track record?
I told you to look up the 'Workforce BS", it's nothing but a commie landgrab scheme!!!

Quote from: VVet69 on August 21, 2023, 03:48:56 AMI would be surprised if the majority of the property owners did NOT have property insurance that included fire damage. In every other disaster like this, either insurance pays the property owner damages to rebuild, or the government subsidizes low interest loans to rebuild, or the property owner sells the property to someone else to recoup some of his losses.

How many communities in the US have been rebuilt after tornadoes/wild fires/hurricane damage? I don't recall state or feds trying to prevent someone from selling property in any of those instances, or building "workforce housing", etc...

Honestly, I doubt all that many had insurance. Here in Ca, most people can't even get insurance, and those who do, pay out the ass for it, usually 5 times the property's worth.

You're Right, this is a first for any community, where the governor says they'll seize the land first.
Notice the media outrage? Yeah, me either...

Quote from: Solar on August 21, 2023, 06:10:54 AMHonestly, I doubt all that many had insurance. Here in Ca, most people can't even get insurance, and those who do, pay out the ass for it, usually 5 times the property's worth.

You're Right, this is a first for any community, where the governor says they'll seize the land first.
Notice the media outrage? Yeah, me either...

The area that burned was for the most part lower income. I would suspect many have owned that land for generations. That land could bring in billions for the government. All they have to do is seize it and clear it.

Quote from: VVet69 on August 21, 2023, 03:48:56 AMI would be surprised if the majority of the property owners did NOT have property insurance that included fire damage. In every other disaster like this, either insurance pays the property owner damages to rebuild, or the government subsidizes low interest loans to rebuild, or the property owner sells the property to someone else to recoup some of his losses.

How many communities in the US have been rebuilt after tornadoes/wild fires/hurricane damage? I don't recall state or feds trying to prevent someone from selling property in any of those instances, or building "workforce housing", etc...

I think the biggest issue is going to be the time needed to rebuild.  There are logistical issues that come with living on an island.  Where are the homeowners going to live while waiting what will likely be a year or more to rebuild?

Quote from: Possum on August 21, 2023, 06:27:28 AMThe area that burned was for the most part lower income. I would suspect many have owned that land for generations. That land could bring in billions for the government. All they have to do is seize it and clear it.

BINGO!!!!
Most of the dwellings were built decades ago, no one has a mortgage and isn't obligated to buy insurance, in an area not expected to have a fire.
But then, they never thought the govt would cut off their water either.

Quote from: ZenMode on August 21, 2023, 06:28:03 AMI think the biggest issue is going to be the time needed to rebuild.  There are logistical issues that come with living on an island.  Where are the homeowners going to live while waiting what will likely be a year or more to rebuild?

Isn't this where FEMA is supposed to step in. Where the govt is supposed to streamline the process of permitting?
Oh wait, the Guv clearly stated, they will be an impediment!

Quote from: Solar on August 21, 2023, 06:32:50 AMIsn't this where FEMA is supposed to step in. Where the govt is supposed to streamline the process of permitting?
Oh wait, the Guv clearly stated, they will be an impediment!

FEMA can't perform magic.  This is being done on an island.  Everything has to be brought in on boats or maybe airplanes, in some cases.  I'm sure there are some construction companies on the island, but there's no way they are staffed or equipped for this large of and undertaking. The only way to speed this process up is going to be flying in workers along with all of the construction supplies needed, but then you have the issue of housing all of the workers, feeding all of the workers, etc.

It's going to be an expensive mess.

Quote from: ZenMode on August 21, 2023, 07:05:48 AMFEMA can't perform magic.  This is being done on an island.  Everything has to be brought in on boats or maybe airplanes, in some cases.  I'm sure there are some construction companies on the island, but there's no way they are staffed or equipped for this large of and undertaking. The only way to speed this process up is going to be flying in workers along with all of the construction supplies needed, but then you have the issue of housing all of the workers, feeding all of the workers, etc.

It's going to be an expensive mess.

That's FEMA's job, but getting Govt out of the way and letting the people rebuild without impediment, should be the first priority, not telling them they're going to have their land seized by the govt because the process will be stifled by Govt red tape!

Are you even listening?

"I've reached out to the Attorney General to explore options to do a moratorium on any sales of properties that have been damaged or destroyed," Green said in a press release.

"Moreover, I would caution people that it's going to be a very long time, before any growth, or housing can be built.

And so, you would be pretty poorly informed if you try to steal land from our people and then build here."